Number26/N26 Mastercard/Account now for Irish Residents

Bob24

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

In any case, there are now some complaints about the security questions with the BaFin (the German regulator) and once the CCC has published we are going to see how big of a deal it was.

This is a very good point. The researchers who are to publish this could be over-hyping a minor issue to attract attention or it could be something very serious, but for now we have no idea.

jester77

N26 have released a statement about it and are launching a bug bounty program!

Yggr of Asgard

By the looks of the more detailed page https://support.n26.com/read/000001401?locale=en it looks like the API was the issue.

We see once the CCC publishes the details.

But once again re-active approach once negative press and headlines were made.

Bob24

While not mentioning it directly, they have sent a communication to customers about the security issue.

Just got this email from them:

We wanted to provide a few updates today on several topics during this busy time of year.

Customer service update

We’re happy to note that the vast majority of N26 customers have successfully completed their account transfer to N26 Bank, and we appreciate your trust and continued confidence. We do want to acknowledge and apologize for the delays some of you have experienced in reaching (or receiving a response from) our customer support team, whether by email, chat, or phone, during this especially busy time. We aren’t at the level of support at the moment that we expect and that you deserve. We’re working hard to ramp up resources and to clear the backlog by the end of the year, and we appreciate your kind patience in the meantime. You can always find the answers to many common questions in our Support Center.

Account security

The security of your account and data is of paramount importance to us and is a responsibility we take very seriously. We’re also constantly working to improve security. We welcome and solicit the input of external security experts to help us do so in our normal course of business, and we regularly “stress test” our systems for any potential vulnerabilities.

You also play an important part in security. As a general rule, to stay safe it is important to keep your login data, card, and smartphone safe from other people and to keep your phone’s software, including our app, up to date.

We appreciate the trust and confidence that each customer places in us to keep their account and money secure.

We have great things in store next year in terms of new products and services. Our best wishes during this busy time of year.

Your N26 Team

TireeTerror

Although its really handy not having to log in, Im amazed I can log into my N26 account on my PC with a saved password. Most banks have multiple security questions that cannot be saved by Windows, you have to type them every single time you log in. With N26 I just open the N26.com and click login and its already filled in. Pretty stupid if you ask me.

Also I think its ridiculous it has a 30 minute automatic log out "feature" on the website, even if Im using it, or talking in live chat, it still kicks me out and I have to log in again.

Also, on Saturday 26th November I paid for diesel at a filling station and I tried to use the contactless feature, forgetting that the limit was €30. The fuel was €50. So it failed when I tried it. So the girl asked me to try again and I used the pin and it worked.

I noticed later that night that I had €50 taken twice. So I contacted support on the 28th (Monday) and they said I had to be patient as only one of the payments had been verified by the retailer that day and that after up to 9 days the other €50 would automatically be refunded to me. I waited, and no sign of it. Ive emailed them 3 times and spoken to them again on the phone where I was promised an email within the hour. They couldnt explain why the money was not back in my account and they could see that it had expired as the retailer had not went in for it obviously.

Its 15th December and the €50 is still not in my bank account. Its taken nearly 2 hours each time to actually speak to someone on live chat or on the phone. Twice I was cut off by the person i was talking to despite the matter not being fully explained.

If they were not so cheap, Id have ditched them for their appalling customer care. Its not good enough to make excuses about being too busy with the changeover. They have my money and I still have no idea when it will be back in my bank account and they could not provide me with one legitimate reason as to how it was possible the money was taken twice despite me only authorising it once. Their best effort was "Sometimes this is just the way the system works". Go and fcuk yourself you tw4t came to mind.. 19 days and counting....

Savman

Not defending N26 at all, they've admitted their support needs to be a lot better.

But let's keep things in perspective, if you look you can find three Banking institutions active on Boards.ie:
AIB http://www.boards.ie/ttforum/1621
KBC http://www.boards.ie/ttforum/1628
BOI http://www.boards.ie/ttforum/1522

Each forum is a litany of complaints and unresolved complaints relating to faulty debit cards, missing funds, unreturned calls etc etc.

I don't think a perfect bank exists, but choice is a good thing.

TireeTerror

Finally got my money back today. I actually got the same guy on telephone support yesterday whop had promised to email me. They are very nice and professional on the phone, I will give them that. A very high standard, shame its taken soooo much time and hassle to get my money back. If I had not kept on at them I dont think I would have got it back as they kept making excuses implying I was reading ti wrong.

user1842

The limit for contactless N26 transactions is €25.  After €25 a PIN entry is required (not a card entry into the POS machine, so technically the transaction is still contactless).
N26 contactless transactions are always online and thus they check your account balance. The contactless limit and the force contactless online is set by the card issuer bank and not by the country. However usually as in the case of the Irish banks they get together and agree on a set limit.

For AIB, BOI, PTSB and Ulster this is €30 (the card schemes promote this approach as it avoids confusion). The government had no say in this (despite what you heard in the budget).

These banks also agreed to allow offline contactless transactions and thus accept a credit risk of €45 (the max amount of contactless payments you can make before PIN entry is forced) for each account. Offline makes the transaction faster at the point of sale.
This is also the reason why some customers don’t have contactless functionality as the banks consider them to risky.

usernamegoes

Every day I get a notification on my iPhone that says "Your card can only be used in a restricted way" I have no idea what this means!

Anyone got a clue.

Quackster

user1842 wrote: »

The limit for contactless N26 transactions is €25. After €25 a PIN entry is required (not a card entry into the POS machine, so technically the transaction is still contactless).

N26 contactless transactions are always online and thus they check your account balance. The contactless limit and the force contactless online is set by the card issuer bank and not by the country. However usually as in the case of the Irish banks they get together and agree on a set limit.

Is this a change with the new cards or has it been like this from the start? If it's a change, I wonder will it affect using N26 on TfL services (which are offline).

inel

usernamegoes wrote: »

Every day I get a notification on my iPhone that says "Your card can only be used in a restricted way" I have no idea what this means!

Anyone got a clue.

You probably haven't updated your new card details somewhere and they attempt to charge your old card (which is not valid anymore).

Suckit

Anybody know how much AIB to N26 International Payment costs if you select urgent?
I am following all of the pages AIB tell me to, and it's a headache reading through it. I read a lot and still couldn't find any charges or percentage or even a rough estimate.

fritzelly

Suckit wrote: »

Anybody know how much AIB to N26 International Payment costs if you select urgent?
I am following all of the pages AIB tell me to, and it's a headache reading through it. I read a lot and still couldn't find any charges or percentage or even a rough estimate.

If AIB inter Ireland transfers are free then to N26 are free and if done usually before 3pm it will be there the next day

Suckit

fritzelly wrote: »

If AIB inter Ireland transfers are free then to N26 are free and if done usually before 3pm it will be there the next day

Thanks. I was checking because i wanted the money to transfer this evening (only for convenience). So do the same rules apply? Because i read similar wording in the links below for urgent.

The cost of an International Payment may be charged either to the Sender or is shared between the Sender and the Receiver.
Under EU legislation the charges must be shared by both parties where the payment is made in an EEA* member state currency within the EEA and no foreign exchange conversion has occurred on the sending side. For example, if an AIB Customer makes a payment in euro from their euro account to Romania, the AIB customer (Sender) pays the AIB’s charge and the Receiver in Romania will pay the Receiver’s bank charge.

If I read this correctly...
http://business.aib.ie/content/dam/aib/personal/docs/fees-and-charges/schedule-of-international-transaction-charges.pdf
i found the link on this page
http://business.aib.ie/help/international-payments-faq

So if N26 have no charges, than AIB cannot charge either?
*ouch* I think  will just go with a standard transfer for now.

fritzelly

€25.00 for "urgent" - doesn't seem that fast to me
Execution timeframe is a minimum(4) of same business day and a maximum(5) of 1 business day, subject to cut off time

So you may not get it there much quicker reallly

If it's free to transfer to another Irish account then they can't charge for a SEPA eligible account

Suckit

it is €12.70
All i had to do was click "Urgent" Next and then if i wanted standard, just go back page and click that instead

Quackster

My old card wouldn't work on the Bus Eireann and Omniplex websites (not authorised/declined messages) and my new card is the same. Presume it's some restriction imposed by the merchants on the use of foreign-issued cards.

Bob24

Quackster wrote: »

My old card wouldn't work on the Bus Eireann and Omniplex websites (not authorised/declined messages) and my new card is the same. Presume it's some restriction imposed by the merchants on the use of foreign-issued cards.

I think it is illegal for a business based in the EU to apply this type of restriction as long as the payment card was issued by a bank located in the SEPA area, but yes some are still doing it and getting them to comply can be a pain.

I used to have the problem with Three's online top-up website but they have now changed it and it is working. Recently I also had the same trying to order something from Dyson's Irish website which didn't give a clear error message but only seemed to accept a card issued by an Irish bank.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Quackster

My Revolut card doesn't work on the Bus Eireann website either but does on the Omniplex website. I guess that's because Omniplex operate in Northern Ireland too so obviously must accept UK-issued cards.

But Bus Eireann preventing tourists from being able to book tickets online with them beats the biscuit!

ahbell

I also find the card won't work on Vodafone.ie to top up, nor on Just Eat.

Bob24

ahbell wrote: »

I also find the card won't work on Vodafone.ie to top up, nor on Just Eat.

This is a serious annoyance ... I understand some businesses might want to restrict orders for customers who don't have a billing address in Ireland, but restricting purely based on the bank seems a bit silly.

Yggr of Asgard

The problem is that despite us having one of the worlds most intrusive civil services regulating everything, that we don't have a single regulator that you could complain to about them refusing to comply with SEPA / Common Market regulations for consumers. It's all over the place.

You could try first to contact the company in question and ask for their excuse, than you could try to contact MasterCard and then you could try to contact the CCPC (good luck, they are about as open as the Russian government).

The only way is to give the business to someone else but in case of state sponsored monopoly like Bus Eireann you can't.

Instead of Just-eat you could try Marvin or Deliveroo but their choice is not as great.

Quackster

ahbell wrote: »

I also find the card won't work on Vodafone.ie to top up, nor on Just Eat.

New card or old card?

My old card worked fine on Vodafone.ie but haven't tried my new card yet.

ahbell

Quackster wrote: »

New card or old card?

My old card worked fine on Vodafone.ie but haven't tried my new card yet.

New card, seem to remember my old one not working either though.

Yggr of Asgard

For those of you who are having problems with the NFC sometimes not working, it looks like that some of the new cards issued have a nasty bug in which NFC is disabled/enabled each time the Chip & PIN is used. 

Aka:

NFC works fine
Chip / Pin used
NFC stops working

So if you NFC worked fine until you used Chip/Pin, try using Chip/Pin again (or go to an ATM and do some transaction that you cancel) and try NFC again.

There is supposed to be a Script update coming that will be written onto the CHIP if you use an Online Pin Terminal or an ATM which will fix this, but it's N26 and it's x-mas, so don't get your hope up.

This does not effect all cards, just some cards, no need to panic, just a tip in case you have this issue.

inel

Since it was discussed a couple of days ago, now here is the video with the interesting talk given by Vincent Haupert about the security vulnerabilities he found in the N26 banking app:

https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-7969-shut_up_and_take_my_money

Suckit

Anyone finding their balance fluctuating?
I have less than €100 since Friday. I am almost sure it was €35ish. Then today i noticed it was €65 so it was a happy surprise. I went to the pub this evening and bought a round and a drink - €25.90 and i have €16.29 left.

Even when i go back to my last spend (Christmas presents) €992.09 and a disputed Amazon Prime, it totals to €51.57 (without the christmas presents).
Something does not seem right to me. I never screenshot, but i am almost 100% certain it said €65 today.
I am wondering if anyone else is seeing similar things happen.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

charlie_says

inel wrote: »

Since it was discussed a couple of days ago, now here is the video with the interesting talk given by Vincent Haupert about the security vulnerabilities he found in the N26 banking app:

https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-7969-shut_up_and_take_my_money

Holy **** thats not a good look

That sucks for their customers

Suckit

My balance is gone back up to €30.39 this morning and no notifications of a refund or any reason that any money has come from or gone into my account apart from the ones mentioned above.

Yggr of Asgard

inel wrote: »

Since it was discussed a couple of days ago, now here is the video with the interesting talk given by Vincent Haupert about the security vulnerabilities he found in the N26 banking app:

https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-7969-shut_up_and_take_my_money

This is appalling lack of security and implementation of responsible security for a fintech company, how BAFIN (German Regulator) could give them a license has to be investigated. This should have been visible during a the application process as part of security audits.

Otherwise, German Humor does not translate well to English but there were some quite basic attack methods mentioned in the presentation which is scary and also makes N26 look like a joke.

If you have not updated your app to the latest version on your device please do so immediately. While certificate pinning is now implemented, on older versions this would still be possible if you are using public or non-encrypted Wifi.

As to the API by the looks they have removed at least the place of birth and the mastercard id from the response but there is still some amount of data present that is excessive.

Bob24

inel wrote: »

Since it was discussed a couple of days ago, now here is the video with the interesting talk given by Vincent Haupert about the security vulnerabilities he found in the N26 banking app:

https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-7969-shut_up_and_take_my_money

Thanks for the link. This is really bad for N26 and makes them look amateurish.

Not only the original announcement didn't overhype the potential arm the uncovered security flaws could make, but all those flaws are actually not rocket science and relying on an obviously very poor security model.

Yggr of Asgard

Some of the things were also more theoretical (the DNS attack for example) or the Man in the middle via Mobile Phone Networks, but indeed it makes their security look very poor. There were clearly some major flaws and one can only hope that they really have fixed everything.

I mean we already did know that their compliance department is non existing (look at the Irish Tax debacle) but this raises further question, especially as to what technical oversight the BAFIN has actually done when licensing N26 as a bank.

In the meantime, update your App if you have not, that is critical, also carefully monitor your balances and your personal details and as soon as you notice an issue, call them.

I'm sure there are other issues out there and now that people know about some of the past issues, I'm sure more people are going to try to see what they can with the API for example. 

Bob24

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

this raises further question, especially as to what technical oversight the BAFIN has actually done when licensing N26 as a bank.
 

Yes clearly. I think you mentioned before the entity which develops the app is separate from the actual regulated banking entity. It would be kind of stupid but maybe it could mean there is no regulatory oversight for the app?

Yggr of Asgard

Bob24 wrote: »

Yes clearly. I think you mentioned before the entity which develops the app is separate from the actual regulated banking entity. It would be kind of stupid maybe maybe it could might there is no regulatory oversight for the app?

Yeah, I thought so too but there is some discussion on German boards about this and despite it being a different company as it's the only interface into the bank for consumers it should have been part of the audit and regulatory process.

In any case, several people have raised a complaint with BAFIN, so I'm sure in a couple of years (it's the German Government after all) we are going to get an insight.

Right now, vigilance is key if you have an N26 account, especially as since the new cards came out, the amount of reported fraud on boards is very high.

soirish

The video didn't surprise me, let's hope overdraft won't come to Ireland soon.

Bob24

Some bad publicity for N26 in the mainstream media: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-cyber-fintech-n-idUSKBN14H1EM

i am sure there are some smart people working there and hopefully this will get them to think even from a marketing perspective this is a bad and they should do everything to prevent it from happening again.

Spocker

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

Right now, vigilance is key if you have an N26 account, especially as since the new cards came out, the amount of reported fraud on boards is very high.

Really? Have you got a link to some of these instances of fraud?

josephsoap

I have a number 26 a/c and didn't bother changing over to the N26 bank as I never really used the a/c and my a/c will be closed in the 10th of Jan

I have about 1.50 in the account - I'm just wondering should I transfer the 3.50 into the account when it closes for the €5 charge a year

Or

If I don't transfer the money in have they any way of getting the €3.50 off me?

TireeTerror

If you can actually be bothered to pay, Id only be paying 12c per ATM transaction. Its not meant to be €5.

IQO

josephsoap wrote: »

I have a number 26 a/c and didn't bother changing over to the N26 bank as I never really used the a/c and my a/c will be closed in the 10th of Jan

I have about 1.50 in the account - I'm just wondering should I transfer the 3.50 into the account when it closes for the €5 charge a year

Or

If I don't transfer the money in have they any way of getting the €3.50 off me?

Transfer the 1.50e back to your Irish account.

josephsoap

Cheers folks - I think I only ever used my card once in the ATM - I'd just be afraid they might put some form of a black mark on credit rating for not paying up their €5 charge - but maybe I'm just being pathetic? :-D

bennyx_o

josephsoap wrote: »

Cheers folks - I think I only ever used my card once in the ATM - I'd just be afraid they might put some form of a black mark on credit rating for not paying up their €5 charge - but maybe I'm just being pathetic? :-D

N26 don't report to the Irish Credit Bureau so you're OK there

forzacalcio

Tried using my card at An Post yesterday and they dont take Mastercard. Strange one that, is An Post that backward or was I fed a line?

Abominable JoMan

Updated to the new version of the app, perhaps I'm being a bit harsh on this, but given the fact, investment and savings isn't available in Ireland yet, it's sloppy on their part to have half of the app dedicated to it.
I don't know, maybe I am being cynical, just thought I'd point it out nonetheless.

Bob24

forzacalcio wrote: »

Tried using my card at An Post yesterday and they dont take Mastercard. Strange one that, is An Post that backward or was I fed a line?

AnPost doesn't accept credit cards but should accept Visa or MasterCard debit card.

Maybe even though N26 card are not credit card they are technically not using the MasterCars debit scheme and are recognised by AnPost as credit cards.

I have the same issue with a French Visa card which is not a credit card but doesn't use Visa Debit (it is recognised as a regular Visa) and is therefore not accepted by AnPost.

Pretty stupid restriction and AnPost is the only place where I have been told I can't use that card.

Zagato

Bob24 wrote: »

AnPost doesn't accept credit cards but should accept Visa or MasterCard debit card.

Maybe even though N26 card are not credit card they are technically not using the MasterCars debit scheme and are recognised by AnPost as credit cards.

I have the same issue with a French Visa card which is not a credit card but doesn't use Visa Debit (it is recognised as a regular Visa) and is therefore not accepted by AnPost.

Pretty stupid restriction and AnPost is the only place where I have been told I can't use that card.

So is the charge to all merchants or just some significantly higher for accepting an N26 card?

Bob24

I am actually not sure how Visa/MasterCard fees work for retailers. But if they charge more for credit cards than they do for debit cards, yes N26 would cost more to all retailers than a visa debit card issued by an Irish bank.

This might be the reason AnPost don't accept them, a cheappo company like Ryanair also charges an extra fee if you don't pay with a debit card (and I assume they would not consider N26 cards to be debit cards).

Zagato

Bob24 wrote: »

But if they charge more for credit cards than they do for debit cards

Generally this would be the case, this is part of the reason retailers have been quicker to accept cards since the introduction of debit cards.
This may be issue for retailers then.