Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Traffic Gridlock Mayhem Extravaganza December 3rd

Options
13»

Comments

  • Options
    #62
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    GavRedKing wrote: »
    I can imagine theres probably some health and safety red tape with workers on the road but being honest, the outside lane seemed to be moving at such a slow pace that anyone working to clear the drain, with adequate signage up back the road, would have been in little danger.

    Leaving it clear itself or tending to other blocked drains was a real over sight by the council.

    Don't think it is the councils responsibility to maintain the N40.


  • Options
    #63
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,553 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Ludo wrote: »
    Don't think it is the councils responsibility to maintain the N40.

    NRA?


  • Options
    #64
    kooga
    Registered Users Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭kooga


    TII but subcontracted to Lagan


  • Options
    #65
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,553 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    kooga wrote: »
    TII but subcontracted to Lagan

    Isn't that only for the tunnel though?


  • Options
    #66
    kooga
    Registered Users Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭kooga


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    Isn't that only for the tunnel though?

    entire N40


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #67
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    GavRedKing wrote: »
    I can imagine theres probably some health and safety red tape with workers on the road but being honest, the outside lane seemed to be moving at such a slow pace that anyone working to clear the drain, with adequate signage up back the road, would have been in little danger.

    Leaving it clear itself or tending to other blocked drains was a real over sight by the council.

    Do you know where that drain goes?

    It goes to an 800 meter long 3m diameter underground piping system beneath the road, which leads to a tidal valve into the sea. Tide goes out, water flows out. Tide in - valve closes, water builds up in resovoir.

    The drain itself was not the problem, that was clear. The tidal valve hasn't been maintained for years though (and this is the piece which was blocked), so those 800m reservoirs were full. The water was coming off the field / floodplain inland of the road so there was no point pumping it back in there.

    So there was no place to pump the water to, until the tidal valve was cleared, and the path back to the sea was free.


  • Options
    #68
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    pwurple wrote: »
    Do you know where that drain goes?

    It goes to an 800 meter long 3m diameter underground piping system beneath the road, which leads to a tidal valve into the sea. Tide goes out, water flows out. Tide in - valve closes, water builds up in resovoir.

    The drain itself was not the problem, that was clear. The tidal valve hasn't been maintained for years though (and this is the piece which was blocked), so those 800m reservoirs were full. The water was coming off the field / floodplain inland of the road so there was no point pumping it back in there.

    So there was no place to pump the water to, until the tidal valve was cleared, and the path back to the sea was free.
    Great info pwurple, that's a lot more than details than what people were provided.

    Given that there was no way to remove the water, I still don't understand how some one wasn't on duty to usher traffic through the single lane and help speed things up.


  • Options
    #69
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    pwurple wrote: »
    So there was no place to pump the water to, until the tidal valve was cleared, and the path back to the sea was free.

    So it turns out this was not the issue at all but the tunnel operators did not realise this. It was simply a blocked drain after all and just needed to be drained.

    Good article describing it here:

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/jack-lynch-tunnel-operators-in-dock-over-cork-citys-carmageddon-chaos-371663.html


  • Options
    #70
    deRanged
    Registered Users Posts: 3,744 ✭✭✭deRanged


    that's shocking. absolutely shocking.


  • Options
    #71
    two wheels good
    Registered Users Posts: 1,996 ✭✭✭two wheels good


    It was a complete shambles. Douglas - Mahon was at a standstill too.
    I hope there is some Service Level Agreement in place which will trigger some sanctions, but I can guess the chances of that.

    It's worth pointing out, according to that Examiner article it took ERTO staff 7 hours to call a drain company to deal with the flooding.

    "Countdown to gridlock
    • December 3 10.15am: ERTO Jack Lynch Tunnel (JLT) staff identify flooding of the hard shoulder and lane 1 (out to the broken white line). An incident support unit vehicle is parked in the hard shoulder in the flood water with the beacons and the flashing amber arrow on to divert traffic away from the flood.
    ..................
    • 5pm: ERTO contacts Munster Drains and requests they come to site to accelerate the clearing of surface water. Munster Drains indicates they will come as soon as possible, given the level of traffic congestion around the city.
    • 9pm: Munster Drains arrives on site to relieve the blockage and begin clearing surface water.
    • 10pm: All surface water is cleared and Munster Drains off site."


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #72
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Ludo wrote: »
    So it turns out this was not the issue at all but the tunnel operators did not realise this. It was simply a blocked drain after all and just needed to be drained.

    Good article describing it here:

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/jack-lynch-tunnel-operators-in-dock-over-cork-citys-carmageddon-chaos-371663.html

    Looks like it. They just assumed it was the tidal valve... (Because they hadn't done the maintenance on that either!) I just hope to goodness this was a serious wake up call to that crowd running it now, and we don't see similar again.


  • Options
    #73
    two wheels good
    Registered Users Posts: 1,996 ✭✭✭two wheels good


    Yes, apparenty it was a just a blocked drain on the hard-shoulder not the tidal valve. So a chap with a shovel - and a pair of wellies - might have solved the problem if they'd only acted promptly. Utter incompetence!

    From Evening Echo article:
    "ERTO staff mistakenly believed the flooding, in the left lane approaching the tunnel from the Mahon side, was caused by a problem with the tidal flap valves and failed to investigate other possible causes and made no attempt to pump the water away.
    Compounding the technical errors ERTO failed to contact Cork City Council, the Motorway Traffic Control Centre or the NRA and no effective communication was put in place to keep An Garda Siochána, the media or the general public informed of developments."


  • Options
    #74
    hufpc8w3adnk65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,158 ✭✭✭✭hufpc8w3adnk65


    So none of the planned preventive maintenance was been done correctly going by that


  • Options
    #75
    kooga
    Registered Users Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭kooga


    And to think people were on here blaming the city council!


  • Options
    #76
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Why the management of the tunnel had to given to a Dublin crowd in the first place is beyond me.


  • Options
    #77
    Pitcairn
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭Pitcairn


    kooga wrote: »
    And to think people were on here blaming the city council!

    Yes, not the fault of the council or the gardaí however in this situation it was not unreasonable for one of them to take control of the situation even if it was not their responsibility.

    SHowing a bit of leadership and giving ERTO a kick up the hole on the day in question would alleviated a lot of stress on people.


  • Options
    #78
    mordeith
    Registered Users Posts: 5,278 ✭✭✭mordeith


    pwurple wrote: »
    I just hope to goodness this was a serious wake up call to that crowd running it now, and we don't see similar again.

    I think it's a clear case of not renewing their contract to maintain the tunnel.


  • Options
    #79
    hufpc8w3adnk65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,158 ✭✭✭✭hufpc8w3adnk65


    mordeith wrote: »
    I think it's a clear case of not renewing their contract to maintain the tunnel.

    100 %


  • Options
    #80
    kooga
    Registered Users Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭kooga


    Pitcairn wrote: »
    Yes, not the fault of the council or the gardaí however in this situation it was not unreasonable for one of them to take control of the situation even if it was not their responsibility.

    SHowing a bit of leadership and giving ERTO a kick up the hole on the day in question would alleviated a lot of stress on people.

    we can't have it both ways responsibility for national primary roads has been taken from both county and city councils for a long time and given to TII (former NRA). It is for them TII to take leadership................


  • Options
    #81
    Padraig Mor
    Registered Users Posts: 9,563 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    pwurple wrote: »
    Why the management of the tunnel had to given to a Dublin crowd in the first place is beyond me.

    My recollection is that the Jack Lynch Tunnel was run super efficiently by the council - it had less staff than the Port Tunnel or limerick tunnel, but way more cars than either. I would presume management was handed over to the considerably-less-efficient ERTO because they have tolling infrastructure (billing etc) in place for the Port Tunnel, with a view to eventually tolling the JLT.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #82
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,288 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    mordeith wrote: »
    I think it's a clear case of not renewing their contract to maintain the tunnel.

    6 year contract from February 2015.


  • Options
    #83
    mordeith
    Registered Users Posts: 5,278 ✭✭✭mordeith


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    6 year contract from February 2015.

    Seriously? FFs, that's like a contract from the IFA


  • Options
    #84
    the beer revolu
    Registered Users Posts: 17,033 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    mordeith wrote: »
    I think it's a clear case of not renewing their contract to maintain the tunnel.

    Just that.?
    That would be a let off.
    There needs to be financial penalties.
    That crowd were given a sack of public money to do a job which they didn't do.


  • Options
    #85
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,546 ✭✭✭kub


    Pitcairn wrote: »
    Yes, not the fault of the council or the gardaí however in this situation it was not unreasonable for one of them to take control of the situation even if it was not their responsibility.

    SHowing a bit of leadership and giving ERTO a kick up the hole on the day in question would alleviated a lot of stress on people.

    If this had been a vehicle broken down and blocking up the inner lane, i am sure The Gardai would have been along fairly quickly to have a word with the driver. It surprises me that they did not seem to do much about it that night considering the traffic conditions and the implications if there had been a serious incident elsewhere, with Ambulances etc getting stuck in jams.


Advertisement