Neighbour's dogs - what should I do?

Millions Of Daisies · 04-12-2015 10:24am #1

I live in a small cul-de-sac and I have a neighbour (not next door) who has several dogs. The dogs are rarely walked and they spend a large portion of the day barking excessively. Sometimes it's like living beside a kennel. Once these dogs start off, they set off every dog in the surrounding area. It's gotten so bad that I had to move the air vent in our bedroom, yet even still, I wake to barking most mornings. I work at home, so I hear the dogs 24/7 and it drives me mad.

I called around to the neighbour a few times, but they're never home and I get the vibe that they might be home but aren't answering the door. When I called, the dogs were up at the front door barking like mad. I could make out at least 3 big dogs, 2 labs and an Alsation. There may be more in there, it's hard to know. I feel sorry for them all kept in such a tiny back garden.

I talked to a few of my neighbours, but they don't want to cause a rift with this neighbour by complaining. That said, someone did send around an anonymous letter about a year ago asking any dog owners to keep the barking down. It didn't help and I don't know who sent it. I've been living with this for about 2 years now. I don't want to be the only one complaining - I own the house so I don't want any rows. Also, who wants to be the horrible person who takes away someone's dog?

It was especially worrying to me the other day when I saw my neighbour putting out her bins with the front door wide open...and the Alsation was running around her front garden and for a time, it was out on the road outside the house. The dog was not muzzled or on a lead. I love dogs, but there are certain breeds of dogs that I know to be dangerous. There are several toddlers and small children on our road who like to play outside and this irresponsible dog owner could be putting those kids in harm's way. I plan on having kids myself and I don't want to be afraid of this dog getting loose in the neighbourhood and possibly seriously injuring someone.

I've called the dog warden (close to impossible to contact them) and there's nothing they can do. The owners have a dog licence. The laws about nuisance barking seem almost non existent. Seems the only option for me is to keep calling to the house (which scares me if I'm honest) and hoping that the owner will be understanding. If I take legal action, I can't be anonymous and my neighbours might hate me forever.

Can anyone advise me here on what I should do?

DBB · 04-12-2015 10:44am

Please don't assume that just because the dog is an Alsatian that he's dangerous. It's not fair and will really rile up other posters here. Yes, by law he should not be out without lead and muzzle, but a child-devourer that does not make him. If you're worried about him being out in public without a muzzle and lead, call the dog warden.
The noise nuisance laws are not non-existent, there have been a lot of successful cases nationwide, some very high profile.
The first step is to make an approach to the owners. It seems you've tried that.
The next step is to get on to your local county council website and download the noise nuisance form. If you can't find it on their site, call their environmental department and ask them to post it to you.
Either the website, or the environmental staff in the CoCo can advise you on what happens next. The arrival of a dog-related noise complaint on the CoCo's desk, in some counties at least, prompts a call to the owners by the dog warden to warn them to take action, or face court. They are fobbing you off when they say they can do nothing, but you need to ramp up the official action first.
Taking the dogs away from the owner is the last thing on the list of options for the judge to opt for. There are plenty of options before that. However, you would be well advised to keep a diary and record the times and durations of barking over a few weeks, and record the barking too. The judge is going to need evidence.
As for your neighbourly relations, well, that's up for you to decide... Put up with the barking to sustain the non-existent relationship you have with the owners, or take action and risk the dirty looks you might get in exchange for a peaceful life.

nuckeythompson · 04-12-2015 12:12pm

I have an alsation and he is a major problem barker. The only place he barks is the back garden. Two neighbours complained. One in a threatening manner who I don't listen to. The other neighbor knocked in and we had a chat and I bring him in earlier than I used to at night. I actually knocked into him recently to see if things improved for him and thankfully he is happy. The dog is walked a few miles a day and only barks in his domain. My advice is to call in and ask if they can be taken in at a certain time. If you approach them the right way they should be comprising. If not then you will know it has to be taken a further step

ElKavo · 04-12-2015 12:46pm

Millions Of Daisies wrote: »

It was especially worrying to me the other day when I saw my neighbour putting out her bins with the front door wide open...and the Alsation was running around her front garden and for a time, it was out on the road outside the house. The dog was not muzzled or on a lead. I love dogs, but there are certain breeds of dogs that I know to be dangerous.

Are you for real? It is ignorant attitudes like this that do nothing but stir up fear and hatred to breeds and support indefensible laws with no scientific or statistical backup.

If you have a problem with nuance barking talk to your warden.

Q: What breeds of dogs have been targeted by BSL?

A: Various breeds have been or currently are targeted by BSL. Until the law was repealed in 2009, Italy regulated the keeping of 17 breeds. In the United States, jurisdictions have either banned or put discriminatory restrictions on one or all of the following: Akita, “Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldogs”, Alaskan Malamute, “American Bandogge”, American Bulldog, American Staffordshire Terrier, American Pit Bull Terrier, Belgian Malinois, Bullmastiff, Bull Terrier, Cane Corso, Chihuahua, Chow Chow, Dalmatian, Doberman Pinscher, Dogo Argentino, “Fila Brasileiro”, German Shepherd Dog, Miniature Bull Terrier, Neapolitan Mastiff, "Pit bull" (please note that "pit bull" is not a breed of dog), Perro de Presa Canario, Rottweiler, Shar Pei, Siberian Husky, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, “Tosa Inu”, and wolf-hybrids. These ordinances also target dogs suspected of being mixes of one or more of the named breeds.

Q: What position do legal, animal-related, and non-animal related organizations take on BSL?

A: All of the following organizations do not endorse BSL:

American Animal Hospital Association, American Bar Association, American Dog Owner's Association, American Humane Association, American Kennel Club, American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, American Veterinary Medical Association, American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior, Association of Pet Dog Trainers, Australian Veterinary Association, Best Friends Animal Society, British Veterinary Association, Canadian Kennel Club, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Federation of Veterinarians in Europe, Humane Society of the United States, International Association of Canine Professionals, National Animal Control Association, National Animal Interest Alliance, National Association of Obedience Instructors, Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (UK & Australia), United Kennel Club, and the White House Administration. In addition, many state and local-level veterinary medical associations and humane organizations oppose BSL.

Q: Aren't certain breeds of dogs more likely to injure or bite than others?

A: There is no evidence from the controlled study of dog bites that one kind of dog is more likely to bite a human being than another kind of dog. A recent AVMA survey covering 40 years and two continents concluded that no group of dogs should be considered disproportionately dangerous.[1] Additionally, in a recent multifactorial study published in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association on the exceptionally rare events of dog bite-related fatalities, the researchers identified a striking co-occurrence of multiple, controllable factors in these cases.[2] Breed was not identified as a factor.

Source: http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/dog-legislation/breed-specific-legislation-bsl-faq/

VonVix · 04-12-2015 1:46pm

I'm the proud owner of a German Shepherd who is as dangerous as a sandwich picked up and eaten after 2 seconds on the floor. It's my mission to raise him to be a wonderful, well trained example of the breed, because there are still far too many people who think they are these big dangerous beasts who once loose will try to devour anyone in sight. I have been in a room with 7 German Shepherds loose (each dog belonging to a different person), all running around acting the eejit, I still have all my fingers!

Send them a letter, anonymous if you like, express your issues simply and briefly. You said one was sent "about a year ago," that's time enough to be sending one yourself. There is obviously someone there at some point during the day.

I have 3 dogs, all of which are vocal given the opportunity. They don't sit outside in the back all day, they do bark from time to time (one barks when he plays in particular) but if ANYONE had any issues with the barking, I would NOT be offended if they told me to my face, in fact I would appreciate it more than anything to be told if they had a problem with it and what their problem about was.

DollyB · 04-12-2015 1:59pm

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/animal_welfare_and_control/control_of_dogs.html

Barking dogs
Excessive dog barking that causes a nuisance is an offence. You may be able to solve such problems by talking to the dog owner.

If you don’t get a satisfactory response, you may complain to the District Court and seek a hearing. When you have got a court date, you must inform the dog owner of your complaint by using the form prescribed for this purpose under Section 25 of the Control of Dogs Act 1986. These forms are available from the District Courts and from local authorities.

The court may make an order requiring the occupier of the premises in which the dog is kept to abate the nuisance by exercising due control over a dog. The court may limit the number of dogs that can be kept on a premises or may direct that a dog be delivered to a dog warden to be dealt with as unwanted.

Does your neighbour own their house?

Also I don't think it matters what breeds the dogs are as it seems to be a noise issue not about the control of dog breeds!

sillysmiles · 04-12-2015 2:23pm

Personally I think if you start with a letter and say in the letter that you have tried to call to them a few times and you haven't managed to catch them - it points out that you've tried to talk to them in person and that you are not just being a crank who wouldn't approach them first.

Millions Of Daisies · 04-12-2015 5:13pm

Firstly, I'd like to thank everyone for your helpful comments. Having read through them, I think it's given me the confidence to just say it to the neighbours face to face - that will be my starting point. If they're not home, I'll post a letter. I find them very intimidating, especially with all the big dogs jumping around at the door barking like mad, but I'll give it a go. I'm also going to start making a few recordings if things don't improve.

I'd like to add that I'm not afraid of dogs, but I am sometimes wary of them. I don't mean to single out a particular breed. I know Alsatians can be great dogs and I'm sure the majority of them are gentle, lovely pets, but they are dogs, and any dog is capable of lashing out. I suppose it's just that the Alsatian is bigger, stronger and could be capable of doing more damage in an attack - they are the guard/police dogs of choice for a reason. I feel exactly the same way about Dobermans, pitbulls, etc. Dog-owners who actually care about their dogs, take them for walks and get them properly trained are okay by me. My neighbours don't seem to be doing much of that kind of thing...these are big energetic dogs and they need space and walking. I feel sorry for them sitting out in the back garden bored everyday. There's a little dog next door and he's brilliant.

When I was a kid, I had a lovely terrier-cross. Back in the 90s everyone used to just let their dogs run around the place, at least they did in my estate. There were never any problems, but then one day, my dog bit a neighbour's young child who was outside playing on our road. The child was pulling out of the dog, so he just went into wolf mode just for one second. It was just a momentary thing, totally out-of-character for him, but he bit the child on the hand as a warning - luckily it wasn't too serious. The child had to go and get a rabies shot, and my lovely little dog had to be sent away to a farm (or at least, that's what I chose to believe). That was a life lesson for me and a tough one too. No matter how much you love your dog, no matter how much you trust them, you can't always trust them around little kids.

I'll call in to them tomorrow and will post here to let you know the outcome. Thanks again everyone.

cocker5 · 04-12-2015 5:28pm

Millions Of Daisies wrote: »

Firstly, I'd like to thank everyone for your helpful comments. Having read through them, I think it's given me the confidence to just say it to the neighbours face to face - that will be my starting point. If they're not home, I'll post a letter. I find them very intimidating, especially with all the big dogs jumping around at the door barking like mad, but I'll give it a go. I'm also going to start making a few recordings if things don't improve.

I'd like to add that I'm not afraid of dogs, but I am sometimes wary of them. I don't mean to single out a particular breed. I know Alsatians can be great dogs and I'm sure the majority of them are gentle, lovely pets, but they are dogs, and any dog is capable of lashing out. I suppose it's just that the Alsatian is bigger, stronger and could be capable of doing more damage in an attack - they are the guard/police dogs of choice for a reason. I feel exactly the same way about Dobermans, pitbulls, etc. Dog-owners who actually care about their dogs, take them for walks and get them properly trained are okay by me. My neighbours don't seem to be doing much of that kind of thing...these are big energetic dogs and they need space and walking. I feel sorry for them sitting out in the back garden bored everyday. There's a little dog next door and he's brilliant.

When I was a kid, I had a lovely terrier-cross. Back in the 90s everyone used to just let their dogs run around the place, at least they did in my estate. There were never any problems, but then one day, my dog bit a neighbour's young child who was outside playing on our road. The child was pulling out of the dog, so he just went into wolf mode just for one second. It was just a momentary thing, totally out-of-character for him, but he bit the child on the hand as a warning - luckily it wasn't too serious. The child had to go and get a rabies shot, and my lovely little dog had to be sent away to a farm (or at least, that's what I chose to believe). That was a life lesson for me and a tough one too. No matter how much you love your dog, no matter how much you trust them, you can't always trust them around little kids.

I'll call in to them tomorrow and will post here to let you know the outcome. Thanks again everyone.

Im sorry OP but in this instance the child was at fault and not the dog, theres no way i would send my dog away if a child was pulling out of him and he bit them on the hand - NO WAY.

This is the huge misconception... its not always the dogs you cant trust around kids... its the kids you cant trust... kids need to be taught manners on how to interact with animals they are not play things.

at the end of the day they have feelings too and if someone is hurting them they are entitled to say enough is enough and growling and a snap is their form of communication etc.. also its ok when kids play and they hurt eachother and the other kid lashing out slapping etc... its one and the same OP

Latatian · 04-12-2015 5:39pm

And you can't always trust little kids around dogs either. The things that kids will do to dogs, and the things parents will happily let kids do, can be very very risky. I've had people 'aeroplane' a child at my little dog's face unexpectedly, literally dropping the child out of the sky at the dog. A kid tied a dog to an electric fence with a metal lead, not out of badness, but because they were bored of walking it and thought you 'put' it somewhere like you drop a toy- luckily it all ended well. Had the child in your story been supervised, Millions of Daisies, or taught how to behave around dogs, it's likely that would not have happened. I'm sorry for the loss of your dog. Having said that, the owner was out with the dog, so that seems supervised to me depending on the dog's reliability off-lead.

At least if you've had a chat with them, you have more information to go on and know a bit more about where you stand.

Millions Of Daisies · 04-12-2015 5:44pm

I agree with you that the dog wasn't entirely to blame. I loved that dog and it broke my heart, really it did. That little kid shouldn't have pulled out of him, but he wasn't to blame either, he was just a little kid playing out on his front lawn! The problem is that once a dog bites a kid, then there is potential for the dog to do it again and that is a risk that no-one should have. My parents were only delighted that the child's parents were so understanding and didn't sue - they could have. Most of all, I'm glad the child was okay and that it wasn't a more serious incident.

DBB · 04-12-2015 5:48pm

Millions Of Daisies wrote: »

I suppose it's just that the Alsatian is bigger, stronger and could be capable of doing more damage in an attack - they are the guard/police dogs of choice for a reason.

I'm not trying to get on your case here op, but as a trainer of Alsatians/German Shepherds for law enforcement, and having liaised with the Garda dog unit, I just need to let readers know that on the list of reasons why GSDs make good police dogs, their ability to do "more damage in an attack" is at the very end of that list... If it's on the list at all.
The primary reason they make good law enforcement dogs is because they are so exceptionally trainable, biddable, intelligent, loyal, and critically, steadfast. Everything they do in law enforcement, be it drug detection or bringing down a criminal, is down to the above characteristics... NOT because they have any sort of tendency to do damage to people. Dogs that show signs of wanting to do damage to people will not make it into training... Or if it's discovered during training, will result in the dog being dropped from training.
Sorry, but I need to speak up for the breed lest anyone reading this thread at a later date get the wrong impression. I do appreciate that there are eejits who purposely try to turn these dogs into weapons, but it's not indicative of the breed generally.
Good luck with your neighbourly woes op, hopefully you can resolve things amicably.

emeldc · 04-12-2015 6:00pm

DBB wrote: »

I'm not trying to get on your case here op, but as a trainer of Alsatians/German Shepherds for law enforcement, and having liaised with the Garda dog unit, I just need to let readers know that on the list of reasons why GSDs make good police dogs, their ability to do "more damage in an attack" is at the very end of that list... If it's on the list at all.
The primary reason they make good law enforcement dogs is because they are so exceptionally trainable, biddable, intelligent, loyal, and critically, steadfast. Everything they do in law enforcement, be it drug detection or bringing down a criminal, is down to the above characteristics... NOT because they have any sort of tendency to do damage to people. Dogs that show signs of wanting to do damage to people will not make it into training... Or if it's discovered during training, will result in the dog being dropped from training.
Sorry, but I need to speak up for the breed lest anyone reading this thread at a later date get the wrong impression. I do appreciate that there are eejits who purposely try to turn these dogs into weapons, but it's not indicative of the breed generally.
Good luck with your neighbourly woes op, hopefully you can resolve things amicably.

All very fine and dandy but the OP has no idea what her neighbours GS is like. I wouldn't approach it either. It's probably demented from being locked up in the back garden all day.

OP, I've had this problem for years with 2 houses that back on to mine. The owners go to work in the morning and the 4 dogs fight each other through the fence. When they're not fighting they're wolf howling in despair. I have researched it at length. If your neighbours wont do anything to improve the situation your only other option is to go to court and that's not as difficult as it sounds. I decided against it as I intend to move in the next year or so. It's a huge problem in housing estates everywhere but you're on your own when it comes to dealing with it.

DBB · 04-12-2015 6:38pm

emeldc wrote: »

All very fine and dandy but the OP has no idea what her neighbours GS is like. I wouldn't approach it either. It's probably demented from being locked up in the back garden all day.

I'd a fair idea someone would miss the point of my post. I am not disputing that the owner must take more responsibility, and can be compelled to do so... I said that in an earlier post.
The point of my post that you've quoted is simply to ensure that the GSD breed is not misrepresented, bearing in mind that the op has misrepresented them a number of times. I simply attempted to clarify these. My latter post is not a commentary on the op's situation, and I said as much in that post, in case someone came along and said what you did.

tk123 · 04-12-2015 9:56pm

DBB wrote: »

I'd a fair idea someone would miss the point of my post. I am not disputing that the owner must take more responsibility, and can be compelled to do so... I said that in an earlier post.
The point of my post that you've quoted is simply to ensure that the GSD breed is not misrepresented, bearing in mind that the op has misrepresented them a number of times. I simply attempted to clarify these. My latter post is not a commentary on the op's situation, and I said as much in that post, in case someone came along and said what you did.

I would guess and with the utmost respect to the OP ...since their anecdote involves a child needing a rabies shot after being bitten that their is not from Ireland and maybe from a (European?) country where people seem to have an automatic fear of GSDs? I walk in a park that's beside a large apartment complex and have seen this fear as well as poor handling/understanding of GDSs from owners first hand.

Some dogs bark when there's a knock at the door OP - mine does and he's brought away from the door before we open it so I wouldn't let that put you off knocking at the door. My dog also barks at people passing the garden both for attention from his favourite neighbours and for "stranger danger" - he's just barking because he's an eejit but not going to savage anyone(!). He's not left out barking btw - 2 barks and he's brought in because I don't want him annoying anyone. I do feel your pain though - my neighbours seemed to have moved their dog outside and he's barking morning, noon and night and driving us mad...

I don't know if it's a security thing but he's barking that much now that nobody would take any notice and think anything is wrong - last year they were robbers in their sheds and we ignored dog barking! I haven't been brave enough to approach them yet!

Dubl07 · 04-12-2015 10:38pm

tk123 wrote: »

I would guess and with the utmost respect to the OP ...since their anecdote involves a child needing a rabies shot after being bitten that their is not from Ireland and maybe from a (European?) country where people seem to have an automatic fear of GSDs? I walk in a park that's beside a large apartment complex and have seen this fear as well as poor handling/understanding of GDSs from owners first hand.

Some dogs bark when there's a knock at the door OP - mine does and he's brought away from the door before we open it so I wouldn't let that put you off knocking at the door. My dog also barks at people passing the garden both for attention from his favourite neighbours and for "stranger danger" - he's just barking because he's an eejit but not going to savage anyone(!). He's not left out barking btw - 2 barks and he's brought in because I don't want him annoying anyone. I do feel your pain though - my neighbours seemed to have moved their dog outside and he's barking morning, noon and night and driving us mad... I don't know if it's a security thing but he's barking that much now that nobody would take any notice and think anything is wrong - last year they were robbers in their sheds and we ignored dog barking! I haven't been brave enough to approach them yet!

A neighbour's GSD was a complete dote as is a friend's boy but they have to be well trained to be manageable. As for moving a dog outside, of course the poor creature will be confused, lonely and bewildered. It's totally unfair.

We've a neighbour with three yappy day-long barkers left outside all day two doors down and an hour-long barker two doors up as well as a big old subwoofer one street back. I'm like you, I'll bring our dog in if she barks more than two or three times, let alone for two or three minutes.

Because mine goes nuts at the doorbell though, some callers think she's really barky. It might be for a minute, inside the house, after the bell goes or for five minutes, inside the house, when I go out and leave her crated. Is it an issue I should address? Older family members think it's to be encouraged whereas I'd prefer her to be more chilled at the bell or a knock on the door.

tk123 · 05-12-2015 10:15am

Dubl07 wrote: »

Because mine goes nuts at the doorbell though, some callers think she's really barky. It might be for a minute, inside the house, after the bell goes or for five minutes, inside the house, when I go out and leave her crated. Is it an issue I should address? Older family members think it's to be encouraged whereas I'd prefer her to be more chilled at the bell or a knock on the door.

Yeah my mum would encourage him to bark and stay barking if it's somebody she doesn't want to open the door to or doesn't like the look of! The rule here is that they're allowed bark but have to stop/are put in the kitchen before we open the door. In the garden I'll acknowledge him when it's a stranger behind the fence (he has different barks and will tell us) but then he has to stop.

Neighbour's dogs - what should I do?

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