Being a Landlord and stress?

Hannaho

Does anyone find being a Landlord stressful? I have two properties that I rent out. However, I couldn't bear to let more than one out - just find it too stressful - e.g. the last tenants wouldn't let the gardener into the house to sort to sort out the back garden, would only permit him to do the front. After they were there 3 years, it costs e1000 ti fix up the back garden. This year I let one of the properties out through a letting agent, and the letting agents's electrician told me that part of my kitchen would need to be rewired in order to get the light working there - costing e500. My cousin was up from Galway and is an electrician - he put the build correctly in the light and they worked - and absolutely no ned for rewiring. Then the same letting agent told me the immersion wasn't working and that I would need a new emersion cylinder. When I got my own electrician out, he said the wire to the emersion had been snipped, and no way would it cost e750 to fit an emersion. I have spent the last two Saturdays trying to sort this out, though I am working full-time and am parenting alone. . last year, in a property that I didn't get managed, I had to get a water booster as the pressure was very poor. It worked for a while - in the meantime, the tenants wanted to contact the PRTB re the emersion not working. I'm 50 now and find all this really stressful - could cope ore with it when I was younger.

handlemaster

Hannaho wrote: »

Does anyone find being a Landlord stressful? I have two properties that I rent out. However, I couldn't bear to let more than one out - just find it too stressful - e.g. the last tenants wouldn't let the gardener into the house to sort to sort out the back garden, would only permit him to do the front. After they were there 3 years, it costs e1000 ti fix up the back garden. This year I let one of the properties out through a letting agent, and the letting agents's electrician told me that part of my kitchen would need to be rewired in order to get the light working there - costing e500. My cousin was up from Galway and is an electrician - he put the build correctly in the light and they worked - and absolutely no ned for rewiring. Then the same letting agent told me the immersion wasn't working and that I would need a new emersion cylinder. When I got my own electrician out, he said the wire to the emersion had been snipped, and no way would it cost e750 to fit an emersion. I have spent the last two Saturdays trying to sort this out, though I am working full-time and am parenting alone. . last year, in a property that I didn't get managed, I had to get a water booster as the pressure was very poor. It worked for a while - in the meantime, the tenants wanted to contact the PRTB re the emersion not working. I'm 50 now and find all this really stressful - could cope ore with it when I was younger.

Get a different agent or ask them to use a different electrican and explain why.

Are you an accidental landlord? Are you actually making any money from the houses or are they rented to pay mortgages or negative equity.

You should also consider if it would be wiser to sell.

The idea of hiring an agent to manage the properties is to save yourself all this stress. In fact you really shouldnt be aware of these issues at all, except on your monthly statement. You have obviously lost confidence in your agent, so I would advise that you discuss these events with them, and if you are not happy with their explanation, switch to another agent.

A professional agent can cost you 10% plus vat but for that you should have no worries. Letting is getting more and more stressful, especially if you have 'entitled' tenants like you seem to have, so if you dont want the hassle you should get somebody good on your side to manage the property.

There will always be maintenance issues and costs incurred. I estimate you are doing well if you get 50% of the rent in your pocket.

tommy100

I have 2 also. Dont find it stressful. I try to choose my tenants carefully. Get non trouble making tenants in, who are house proud. When interviewing them for house, take note of their neat dress, car cleanliness (inside and out), manner. Good tentants much better than getting that xtra 50 a month for rent. I always give euros back for xmas if house is kept clean etc etc.

<MOD SNIP>

April 73

Everyone finds different things stressful.
Sounds to me like you have a few options.
Find a better agent.
Try not to let these things bother you so much. They are just part & parcel of the business of letting.
Talk to a financial advisor & find out if you might be better off selling up & putting the money into something else as an investment.

The tenants you choose are very important. Unless the houses are in rural areas & hard to let, you should be very choosy in who lives in your properties.

Hannaho

Hi! All, thanks for your replies. The properties have no mortgage. It's just that the agents I have had - two different agents over six years have always ended up contacting me constantly or not being able to handle the tenants - with the garden - the tenants refused to look after it - cut the grass - even though it was in the Lease, they refused to let a gardener go in; then they threatened PRTB and Letting Agent - quite a well known one - told me to just leave it until they moved out. When I eventually asked them to move out - I was going to move into the property myself - they threatened PRTB after I hadn't moved in six months later - kids didn't want to move in the end.

The properties are mortgage free - one I inherited - one I bought when I was in my twenties. I work full time, so I pay the top rate of tax - it just seems very little money for a lot of hassle once I have taken accountants fees, property tax, maintenance, vacancy periods, USC, PRSI, letting fees, agent management fees etc. into account and then the hassle of dealing with tenants, and people coming to do jobs/maintenance which may not be done properly at times - I probably sound a bit of a wuss but I'm fifty, not in great health, work full-time and have two teens on my own so life is very hectic.

April 73

Have you looked at the financial side of things to see if there is a better, less hasslesome way to invest your money?

lima

tommy100 wrote: »

I have 2 also. Dont find it stressful. I try to choose my tenants carefully. Get non trouble making tenants in, who are house proud. When interviewing them for house, take note of their neat dress, car cleanliness (inside and out), manner. Good tentants much better than getting that xtra 50 a month for rent. I always give euros back for xmas if house is kept clean etc etc.

You have two properties and you rent? strange, hope you're paying your full taxes. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=97937420

<MOD SNIP>

Hannaho

Hi April. I haven't any idea, but if you have it would be great. Thought about selling one of the properties - and keeping the other. Putting e100k in a college fund for my kids - rewiring and replumbing the remaining house - which needs doing and where I would like to live in about 4 years time - and the rest - maybe pension fund - I'm public sector but don't have much of a pension as I took time out for kids - and with my health might not be around at 65 to get it! Would like to retire at 60, but with new rules that doesn't seem possible. I wold be grateful for any ideas.

Arbiter of Good Taste

OP your first mistake was to not give them notice of eviction for breaking the lease when they wouldn't let the gardener in. Though it beggars belief what kind of <MOD SNIP > wouldn't let you fix up the garden for them. Anyway, hindsight is twenty twenty as they say.

Get a new agent. To be honest, do you even need one if you're still going through the hassle of getting your electrician out. Unless things are breaking every week, then a few things here and there should not be a hassle. I've had a couple of big things with my tenants over the last couple of years - broken heat, broken shower, leak under the sink. They ring me, I tell them to ring my handyman to make an appointment that suits them, he rings me with a quote and then just bills me when it's done. Sometimes a pain in the bum, but not stressful.

But - and this is not a dig at you - if you do find this kind of thing stressful maybe you should sell up. Life is too short.

tommy100

<MOD SNIP >

I treat all tenants good. I never bother them, and they don't bother me, could easily be 6 months even a year with out hearing from them. When an issue arises, we discuss it, and resolve it. Simple. My main 2 rules when handing them keys is keep place clean, and to get along with neighbours. As i said, I always give a bit of rent back (50-100)at xmas to say thanks for keeping prop clean..., and i always return deposit in full. not tied up on punctuality of rent.

Hannaho

Hannaho wrote: »

I work full time, so I pay the top rate of tax - it just seems very little money for a lot of hassle once I have taken accountants fees, property tax, maintenance, vacancy periods, USC, PRSI, letting fees, agent management fees etc. into account and then the hassle of dealing with tenants, and people coming to do jobs/maintenance which may not be done properly at times

All very true. And as an investment its not liquid; it would take you six months to get your money back. Also, owning them that long likely means that you would have a very hefty capital gains tax bill so the properties are not really worth their market value to you.

If I was advising somebody starting out now I would say to avoid property, regularly invest in blue chip dividend shares, put them in a drawer and forget them.

lima

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

OP your first mistake was to not give them notice of eviction for breaking the lease when they wouldn't let the gardener in. Though it beggars belief what kind of <MOD SNIP > wouldn't let you fix up the garden for them.

Perhaps the kind of people who will not stand for a bad landlord who isn't even bothered to fix the wiring or heating

April 73

Hannaho wrote: »

Hi April. I haven't any idea, but if you have it would be great. Thought about selling one of the properties - and keeping the other. Putting e100k in a college fund for my kids - rewiring and replumbing the remaining house - which needs doing and where I would like to live in about 4 years time - and the rest - maybe pension fund - I'm public sector but don't have much of a pension as I took time out for kids - and with my health might not be around at 65 to get it! Would like to retire at 60, but with new rules that doesn't seem possible. I wold be grateful for any ideas.

This might be a useful thing to do. Over on the AskAboutMoney website there is a moneymaker section.
You could post your scenario over there. Try to include the actual rents received, costs, incomings & outgoings. Lay out what you'd like to achieve - money for college, retirement, etc. Generally the advice can be good & give you food for thought. Spend some time planning s comprehensive post & you could find it worthwhile.
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/forums/money-makeover.62/


Other than that if I were you I would seriously consider making an appointment with an independent financial advisor to see what your options are. Financial planning with your goals in mind would be very useful. I'm sure if you google "independent financial advisor" you will find some in your area.

borderlinemeath

TBH, if you own both outright and live in neither you will be returning a lot of CGT to revenue. In saying that if you leave them to your kids for inheritance they will be paying inheritance tax as well. While your kids don't want to move I would be moving into one of them with the view of selling it in years to come as your PPP. Also are they in decent locations? Would your children need to be accommodated for college in the next few years and would either be suitable for this?

While I understand they are creating a bit of a headache now, you need to look a few years ahead rather than just selling up now.

Hannaho

Properties are in Dublin and I live in Dublin. All good locations. One near city centre - the other in suburbs. If I sell one of them I won't owe CGT as I made a loss on a property a while ago so I can use this to cover the loss. Re. inheritance - I have a S.60 policy which costs 2000 per year to cover inheritance tax - also have other life insurance.

Hannaho

Hannaho wrote: »

If I sell one of them I won't owe CGT ....

Given the stress the property is causing you, you have a way out there.

Of course tax rules might change in the future, for better or worse. CGT is one that will have be be adjusted as its distorting the market.

Hannaho

Hi! Dr. Donkey, how do you mean CGT is distorting the property.

Lima, there is nothing wrong with the heating - there was a new boiler put in in 2008. A new fuse board was put in in 2007 - I am rewiring and replumbing because I want to convert the house to Gas and I want more sockets, wired smoke detectors/carbon monoxide alarms and a top of the range burglar alarm. There was never an issue with the heating - the agent said there was an issue with the emersion - they snipped the wire and told me that they needed to replace the whole cylinder at a cost of e750 - when I got my own electrician to look at it - he said there was nothing wrong with it - and that they must have been trying to do me for e750. But the tenants were without hot water in the shower for 3 weeks due to the agent's men sniping the wire - I never knew until I went to deliver some cat deterrent stuff to the house - a crazy lady who lives two doors up is feeding 40 stray cats! I reduced the rent for two months by a third to cover their inconvenience - the letting agent never even told me that there was an issue with the water for this long - and it was their doing.

Hannaho

Hannaho wrote: »

Hi! Dr. Donkey, how do you mean CGT is distorting the property.

There are many houses which would be placed on the market but for CGT. All those original buy to lets in Dublin could well see CGT bills in six figures if they were sold and thats enough to stay the hand of possible vendors.

Think if CGT was abolished in the morning what would happen (many juruistictions dont have CGT at all or a much softer version than we do).

Prices for these type of houses would drop as supply increases. With any luck this might even feed through to rent levels.

ComfortKid

Gaygooner wrote:

Or discuss on a discussion board...

Deleted User wrote:

A professional agent can cost you 10% plus vat but for that you should have no worries. Letting is getting more and more stressful, especially if you have 'entitled' tenants like you seem to have, so if you dont want the hassle you should get somebody good on your side to manage the property.

The Tennant's are 'entitled' to hot water.

dearg lady

borderlinemeath wrote: »

TBH, if you own both outright and live in neither you will be returning a lot of CGT to revenue. In saying that if you leave them to your kids for inheritance they will be paying inheritance tax as well. While your kids don't want to move I would be moving into one of them with the view of selling it in years to come as your PPP. Also are they in decent locations? Would your children need to be accommodated for college in the next few years and would either be suitable for this?

While I understand they are creating a bit of a headache now, you need to look a few years ahead rather than just selling up now.

Good point, there may be a way to plan better than just selling.
However, 2 things to note, firstly there are some reliefs available when passing gifts on to children.
Secondly if OP moves in to one of the properties CGT would still be due for the period it was not OP's PPR

newacc2015

First of all, your agent sounds very unprofessional. If I were you, I would look for at least 3 written quotes for any work over €250. This would ensure you are getting work done at the write price. Generally if you find a decent tradesman, ask him for numbers for any other plumbers etc that they recommended. Personally I have never heard of a good experience of anyone using an agent. They get ok rents, but have no clue with how to deal with tenants. IMO they defeat the purpose of using an agent.

IMO you should always try to get someone working in a large multinational. They generally have such long hours, that they dont have time to mess around. They are used to following rules and procedures since its the norm in work. Plus these firms dont have time for difficult people. If they are difficult, their contracts are "not renewed".

I think being a landlord is as stressful as you want to make it. Some tenants are a nightmare. Generally if they are trouble within the first 6 months, they will be trouble for the remainder of the tenancy. Evict them before they get part IV tenancy rights and find someone who is a better tenant.

Arbiter of Good Taste

ComfortKid wrote: »

The Tennant's are 'entitled' to hot water.

The OP was never told that the tenants were without hot water and gave them a reduction in rent as a result. But don't let the facts get in the way.

I'm a landlord 10 years now, accidental ish so negative equity, bought not too far off the boom etc etc etc etc.

All that considered no stress to be fair, property has been occupied for the 10 year, 5/6 different tenants, no real time in between them to mention (a month generally).

Letting agent handles everything, accountant does the returns along with other business he handles for me so quite painless.

Cost me about €400 a month on average over the 10 years so not at all lucrative but longterm it'll be ok ish hopefully.

I'm always mindful that it can go pear shaped very quickly though but fingers crossed it doesn't/won't.

Hannaho

Yes, comfortkeeper, the tenants are entitled to hot water and that is why I was so upset that I was not informed and found out accidentally, and then the agent presented me with a e750 bill for his men sniping the wire to the emersion! In fairness these tenants, unlike the last, are really nice - but the agent has been dreadful - I do pay him 10% the monthly rent - he's a different agent than previously, but still no professional service. I also offered the tenants to move out and I would give them back their deposit even without any notice if they could find somewhere else more suitable, but they didn't want to move - so I suppose that says something. I'm glad that not everyone here finds the letting process as stressful as I do, perhaps I'll have to change my attitude towards it!

newacc2015

Hannaho wrote: »

Yes, comfortkeeper, the tenants are entitled to hot water and that is why I was so upset that I was not informed and found out accidentally, and then the agent presented me with a e750 bill for his men sniping the wire to the emersion! In fairness these tenants, unlike the last, are really nice - but the agent has been dreadful - I do pay him 10% the monthly rent - he's a different agent than previously, but still no professional service. I also offered the tenants to move out and I would give them back their deposit even without any notice if they could find somewhere else more suitable, but they didn't want to move - so I suppose that says something. I'm glad that not everyone here finds the letting process as stressful as I do, perhaps I'll have to change my attitude towards it!

Get rid of the agent. He is incompetent. Why wouldnt you manage the properties yourself? The agent is causing you more stress than anything else. The amount of "estate agents" appearing in the last decade in Dublin is ridiculous. Personally I would only ever use the large ones that you would see their name in the Irish Times property section. As they have a reputation to protect. Where as the 1% sales fee estate agent has nothing to lose.

antoinolachtnai

If you are paying 10 percent to the agent you shouldn't need to have much to do with it. It sounds like the agent is causing as much stress as the actual letting a undortunately.

If I were you and had the time I would do it myself. This may not suit you. however if you have a list of trusted tradesmen or handymen and you have a trusted accountant, I don't see it taking that much time.

Eoin247

Unfortunately all the legislation for renting has steadily become more and more stacked against landlords over the years. It's grand when you have good tenants, and to be fair most of them are. However having even just one really bad tenant can absolutely wreck your life with stress and its far harder to have a quick resolution nowadays than it used to be.

antoinolachtnai

Was it really that much easier before? A trip to the district court was never much fun. Renting used to be much more difficult and stressful if you ask me.

4ensic15

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Was it really that much easier before? A trip to the district court was never much fun. Renting used to be much more difficult and stressful if you ask me.

Very few went to the District Court. Tenants could be dumped out on the street and they would find it very difficult to get a solicitor to go to the District Court.

housetypeb

4ensic15 wrote: »

Very few went to the District Court. Tenants could be dumped out on the street and they would find it very difficult to get a solicitor to go to the District Court.

Was that because tenants who couldn't be bothered to pay rent might not pay the solicitor either:D.