Through trains?

Markcheese

Just wondering if through trains on cork suburban service would increase usage and usefulness ? Or be possible...
I mean trains from midleton to mallow or charleville ?? Not changing in kent .. this would allow easier commuting from say mallow to carrigtohill...
And if it could be combined with a platform in blackpool -and the park and ride at dunkettle it'd seriously increase the usefulness of the whole service..

end of the road

such services may start running through when the suburban stations between cork/mallow open?

L1011

end of the road wrote: »

such services may start running through when the suburban stations between cork/mallow open?

They were intended to start when this happened, Mallow<->Cobh and Mallow<->Midleton diagrams. 2015 was given as an "at latest" date for them and they haven't happened - and only some were dependent on development. Lack of planning and investment crippling Irish Rail as always.

savagethegoat

Far too sensible

Itssoeasy

L1011 wrote: »

They were intended to start when this happened, Mallow<->Cobh and Mallow<->Midleton diagrams. 2015 was given as an "at latest" date for them and they haven't happened - and only some were dependent on development. Lack of planning and investment crippling Irish Rail as always.

They tried it as I went to cobh on the train and coming back from cobh the train didn't go into the bay platforms and went to platform 5.

Utdfan20titles

savagethegoat wrote: »

Far too sensible

Agreed. You're suggesting stuff that makes sense.
Why would any of our pathetic semi -state bodies embrace anything like that?

LXFlyer

Bear in mind that the number of local trains operated between Cork and Mallow is fairly limited, being restricted to the morning and evening peaks.

There are only four trains from Mallow to Cork in the morning, one of which uses an Intercity set that then operates to Dublin, and three from Cork to Mallow in the evening, with a couple of late night trains too.

While there may have been plans to build a more frequent service and more commuter stations, the recession and lack of state funding put pay to that.

savagethegoat

lxflyer wrote: »

Bear in mind that the number of local trains operated between Cork and Mallowis fairly limited , being restricted to the morning and evening peaks.

There are only four trains from Mallow to Cork in the morning , one of which uses an Intercity set that then operates to Dublin, and three from Cork to Mallow in the evening, with a couple of late night trains too.

While there may have been plans to build a more frequent service and more commuter stations, the recession and lack of state funding put pay to that.

exactly the point...you put your finger on it there....opportunity to improve.

LXFlyer

savagethegoat wrote: »

exactly the point...you put your finger on it there....opportunity to improve.

Nice of you to ignore the second half of my post regarding lack of funding.

Where are the trains going to come from to operate these extra services?

Who is going to pay for it?

end of the road

would such through services need extra stock or would the 2600s be able to cover them with some help from the 2800s if needed?

savagethegoat

lxflyer wrote: »

Nice of you to ignore the second half of my post regarding lack of funding.

Where are the trains going to come from to operate these extra services?

Who is going to pay for it?

Plenty of out of service units around the network.......put a couple of Mk4 rakes back into traffic and use the ICRs freed up?

The extra passengers generated might contribute perhaps?

tabbey

Has there been any progress on the new entrance on the city side of Cork station? and does this have any bearing on through operation?

Itssoeasy

tabbey wrote: »

Has there been any progress on the new entrance on the city side of Cork station? and does this have any bearing on through operation?

They are digging up the yard(what was left of it) and the avoiding line was lifted in pics I saw on here recently.

LXFlyer

savagethegoat wrote: »

Plenty of out of service units around the network.......put a couple of Mk4 rakes back into traffic and use the ICRs freed up?

The extra passengers generated might contribute perhaps?

With respect that wouldn't even come close to paying for it.

Any new services require additional subsidy - it's unlikely this will be that high on the NTA priority list unfortunately.

savagethegoat

you'd defend IEs status Quo and modus operandi to the death, I'd expect you to say nothing different. However, changes in services can be made cheaply (ie Ballybrophy) and IE should investigate all possibilities.
I don't think what was being mooted here would necessarily constitute a new service, just combining the Mallow to Cork trains with the Cork to Cobh or Midleton ones initially. Such integration might even result in more efficient stock utilisation

LXFlyer

savagethegoat wrote: »

you'd defend IEs status Quo and modus operandi to the death, I'd expect you to say nothing different. However, changes in services can be made cheaply (ie Ballybrophy) and IE should investigate all possibilities.
I don't think what was being mooted here would necessarily constitute a new service, just combining the Mallow to Cork trains with the Cork to Cobh or Midleton ones initially. Such integration might even result in more efficient stock utilisation

It's nothing to do with defending anyone and there is no need to get personal about it - just because I've a better knowledge of both the financial and operational constraints than most doesn't mean that you have to make derogatory comments about me.


The reality is that without a timetable recast, the scope for doing it is very limited, due a combination of lack of platform space and which stock operates which services. Two of those morning commuter services from Mallow are operated by either a Mark 4 set or an ICR off Tralee. Then you have the issue that most of the time that only one through platform is available (due to a Dublin train being at the platform), while two trains would need to pass one another at Cork.

savagethegoat

It's only your opinion that you have superior knowledge to mine.

It's hardly insurmountable that a Dublin train is occupying a platform surely. It's hardly impossible to recast the timetable. Those aren't reasons why it can't be done, they are excuses for IE not doing it.

end of the road

the only priority the transport quango has is implementing things that will slow everyone down on the railway within the dublin area. i mean everyone. so i wouldn't expect such meaningful improvements that could be delivered for little for the souths second city anytime soon.

Jamie2k9

I see no real benefit, in running though trains however I believe there is one or two currently run Mallow-Cobh

Major peak commuter trains have less than 10 minutes change in Cork and its like saying would numbers increase with more direct Limerick/Dublin trains.

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I see no real benefit, in running though trains however I believe there is one or two currently run Mallow-Cobh

Major peak commuter trains have less than 10 minutes change in Cork and its like saying would numbers increase with more direct Limerick/Dublin trains.

both of which are legitimate questions to ask. would through traffic increase with through trains, and does the change put potential through traffic off? why take a train and change at the junction when you can get the direct bus from limerick to dublin. do all hourly cork trains stop at the junction or is it every 2 hours like tralee most of the day?

savagethegoat

Well, if investment funds did become available, there should be traffic potential at Blarney, Rathduff and Buttevant surely and an improved service from Charleville would be no harm.

In the meantime, through trains from Mallow wouldn't cost much and there are quite a few employers the other side of Cork City that might potentially provide extra traffic.

It's a typical IE thing to shrug off even possibility of a feasibility study with negative remarks.

Jamie2k9

end of the road wrote: »

both of which are legitimate questions to ask. would through traffic increase with through trains, and does the change put potential through traffic off? why take a train and change at the junction when you can get the direct bus from limerick to dublin. do all hourly cork trains stop at the junction or is it every 2 hours like tralee most of the day?

It's faster to change at the junction.....and Limerick had the highest intercity frequency on the network.

Well, if investment funds did become available, there should be traffic potential at Blarney, Rathduff and Buttevant surely and an improved service from Charleville would be no harm.

In the meantime, through trains from Mallow wouldn't cost much and there are quite a few employers the other side of Cork City that might potentially provide extra traffic.

It's a typical IE thing to shrug off even possibility of a feasibility study with negative remarks.

I'm sorry for a 5 minute change over in Cork will not be a basis in which a person makes a decision to use a train.

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It's faster to change at the junction.....and Limerick had the highest intercity frequency on the network.

it might be faster but is it worth the bother. when did limerick have the highest intercity frequency on the network. personally i think bringing back direct limericks and making corks all non or very limited stop would be a revolution.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I'm sorry for a 5 minute change over in Cork will not be a basis in which a person makes a decision to use a train.

you would be surprised. why don't they make a genuine effort like for example, do a survey of passengers. would be to much effort i know, but very doable for now

savagethegoat

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It's faster to change at the junction.....and Limerick had the highest intercity frequency on the network.



I'm sorry for a 5 minute change over in Cork will not be a basis in which a person makes a decision to use a train.

and it's not a basis for growing traffic either. Marketed strongly as a new through service, it could only gain passengers.

It's very unlikely a campaign to increase passengers involving a change would get anywhere.

I'm afraid your comment is of the type I mentioned in the post you quoted, it's just a bit half-hearted and defeatist,

Jamie2k9

it might be faster but is it worth the bother. when did limerick have the highest intercity frequency on the network. personally i think bringing back direct limericks and making corks all non or very limited stop would be a revolution.

Limerick currently has the highest Intercity frequency with 18 services to Dublin and 16 services from Dublin. Cork is 16 and 15 services.

Problem is Cork wouldn't be sustainable without Limerick hourly.

and it's not a basis for growing traffic either. Marketed strongly as a new through service, it could only gain passengers.

It's very unlikely a campaign to increase passengers involving a change would get anywhere.

I'm afraid your comment is of the type I mentioned in the post you quoted, it's just a bit half-hearted and defeatist

We don't have traffic data for Cork regional so we can't comment on whether traffic is growing or not.

Worth also nothing that extending a Cobh commuter to Mallow would take 5-6 minutes longer than Intercity service from Cork so really going direct would save a little walk but not reduce time.

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Limerick currently has the highest Intercity frequency with 18 services to Dublin and 16 services from Dublin.

most are change at the junction though

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Problem is Cork wouldn't be sustainable without Limerick hourly.

if it was very limited or non stop, with a good onboard environment, those could do something like you know, attract new passengers to this very viable service, which would make it even more viable.

Jamie2k9

most are change at the junction though

Yes but it's only a few steps.

if it was very limited or non stop, with a good onboard environment, those could do something like you know, attract new passengers to this very viable service, which would make it even more viable.

Nope, look at the 06.15 is very quiet and it's a non stop services. The route does not have the population density to support such a services especially outside peak hours especially with Mark IV's. Tralee and Limerick are keeping the hourly service alive. If you look at current schedules on busy days with no Tralee connections it's generally 3/4 coach ICR's. Remove Limerick and you cannot downsize any more just lose money.

I'm sure you wouldn't want lots of ICR's dedicated to such non stop services....

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Nope, look at the 06.15 is very quiet and it's a non stop services.

well of course it is considering its slower then a country funeral

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The route does not have the population density to support such a services especially outside peak hours especially with Mark IV's.

of course it does. why the hell did they buy the bluddy things if that was the case? well, because its not true. the reality is they thought that they would have the passengers indefinitely and now they don't, but can't be bothered trying to grow the business.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Tralee and Limerick are keeping the hourly service alive.

they probably are now but it didn't have to be that way

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

If you look at current schedules on busy days with no Tralee connections it's generally 3/4 coach ICR's. Remove Limerick and you cannot downsize any more just lose money.
I'm sure you wouldn't want lots of ICR's dedicated to such non stop services....

better that then crawling around on suburbans where they cannot cope. i mean its not as if connolly long distance will ever be all ICR operated as they should due to operational convenience coming before customers, until they are clapped out maybe.