The triumph of the National Front in France another feather in Putin's cap?

BoJack Horseman

masti123 wrote: »

I'm not an FN supporter, far from it but I believe this collusion is gonna backfire in the middle run

The two main parties 'cartelling' up the nation between them will only strengthen the FN.

It's pretty pathetic that both the republicans & the socialists have to resort to this collusion.

The socialists losing 3 million+ votes should be alarming for them.
The entire left spectrum of french parties have collapsed to 32%

masti123

Nodin wrote: »

If large numbers of the population want to, for instance, embark on a deranged drunken rampage every weekend while firing guns at random passersby, it's not really doing any good to pander to them.

Haha get large enough numbers of them, keep ignoring them, and see what happens. Really not a good way to run a country.

Nodin

masti123 wrote: »

Haha get large enough numbers of them, keep ignoring them, and see what happens. Really not a good way to run a country.

A grouping of anti-semites, islamophobes and racists buoyed up on occasion by the swing voting disgruntled don't strike me as a 'good option' to allow running a country. It's a bit like the climate change conference - the climate change deniers wouldn't really have anything to offer.

gallag

Ironically this is the best possible result for FN, Frances problems with the economy and unemployment will not get any better any time soon and FN will not have to share in any of that responsibility leading to the presidential election, throw in another terrorist attack and a pile of "I told yous so"

BoJack Horseman

gallag wrote: »

Ironically this is the best possible result for FN, Frances problems with the economy and unemployment will not get any better any time soon and FN will not have to share in any of that responsibility leading to the presidential election, throw in another terrorist attack and a pile of "I told yous so"

Its a terrific result for the FN...

Their vote share remained constant between the first round & the second round.
Narrowly beaten by the Socialist party to 2nd place...
Only the collusion between the two major partner parties keeping them from controlling several regions.

The increase in the vote broke almost entirely for centre-right parties...
That collection of parties increased their vote by 3 million odd between the 1st & second rounds.

The left-wing vote collapsed.
Despite an extra 2 million votes cast overall yesterday, only 5% of them broke for the left.... their overall numbers increasing by 100k, but their share of the vote dropping by 4%.

The media narrative everywhere of a FN collapse is completely inaccurate.

MRnotlob606

Nodin wrote: »

A grouping of anti-semites, islamophobes and racists buoyed up on occasion by the swing voting disgruntled don't strike me as a 'good option' to allow running a country. It's a bit like the climate change conference - the climate change deniers wouldn't really have anything to offer.

If being an Islamphobe is some sort expletive I would find that quite worrying. I think it's perfectly rational to be afraid of Islam. Just look at the plethora of Human Rights abuses in every muslim majority country.

I am not attacking Muslims, I am attacking the position of Islam.

Btw the FN are NOT an anti semetic party, Mariane Le Pen has expressed her support for Israels right to protect itself from terrorists.
I would hardly think that can be construed as anti semetic.

View

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

The two main parties 'cartelling' up the nation between them will only strengthen the FN.

It's pretty pathetic that both the republicans & the socialists have to resort to this collusion.

The socialists losing 3 million+ votes should be alarming for them.
The entire left spectrum of french parties have collapsed to 32%

There was no cartel.

The Republicans contested ALL areas including those where their presence could have been enough to deprive the Socialists of a majority and hand the area to the FN.

The Socialists, on the other hand, chose not to contest some areas so the voters in those areas would have a straight choice between the main-stream right and the extreme right. The voters in those areas chose the main-stream right as is their democratic right.

Trying to make out it was a cartel is pathetic.

Will it be a cartel if, in our next GE, FG contest all areas and Labour only some? :-)

Nodin

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

If being an Islamphobe is some sort expletive I would find that quite worrying. I think it's perfectly rational to be afraid of Islam. Just look at the plethora of Human Rights abuses in every muslim majority country.

I am not attacking Muslims, I am attacking the position of Islam.
.

Seeing as muslim majority countries are not the only ones who have those sorts of abuses, I'd rethink your position there.

You might explain those nuances to the FN.

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

Btw the FN are NOT an anti semetic party, Mariane Le Pen has expressed her support for Israels right to protect itself from terrorists.
I would hardly think that can be construed as anti semetic.

....now that there seems to be more mileage in muslim baiting.

View

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

Btw the FN are NOT an anti semetic party, Mariane Le Pen has expressed her support for Israels right to protect itself from terrorists.
I would hardly think that can be construed as anti semetic.

Her father, who was a member of the party up until three months ago, had six convictions for anti-semitism and racism.

Anyone joining a party led by such a figure (over such a long period of time) clearly doesn't have a problem with his sentiments and/or is supportive of them.

Inquitus

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Its a terrific result for the FN...

Their vote share remained constant between the first round & the second round.
Narrowly beaten by the Socialist party to 2nd place...
Only the collusion between the two major partner parties keeping them from controlling several regions.

The increase in the vote broke almost entirely for centre-right parties...
That collection of parties increased their vote by 3 million odd between the 1st & second rounds.

The left-wing vote collapsed.
Despite an extra 2 million votes cast overall yesterday, only 5% of them broke for the left.... their overall numbers increasing by 100k, but their share of the vote dropping by 4%.

The media narrative everywhere of a FN collapse is completely inaccurate.

Its not really a great result for FN, their support base is at an all time high, and unlikely to have much scope for further improvement, and they still couldn't win one region, they also have no hope in the presidential election. It's good to see the rest of France unite to ensure these racists don't get anywhere near power, much like they did in 2002 when Le Pen was in the presidential runoff and got routed 80%-20%.

KingBrian2

Very good to see France reject extremism. Liberty triumphs over fascism. Lets hope will heal the division within its society. Islamism, Fascism and totalitarian has no place in this world.

Gbear

Pretty sure it was the same story back in the early 2000's when LePen Sr. was duking it out with Chirac for the presidency.

I think one of the unofficial slogans was "Vote for the crook, not the racist".

There's a core of far-right winger types that'll get a certain % of the vote - 20-25% - but then the rest of the country wakes up and decides they don't want to live in a fascist state and swing behind whoever else is on offer. Voting against someone is perfectly legitimate in a democracy - I might not really have a preference between FF or FG but I sure as **** don't want SF getting in so I'd vote for someone else, even if it was decided by a coin toss, as the least worst option.

The middle of the road parties will always maintain the larger numbers in the long term because they usually don't really stand for a whole lot, so they can swing in behind whatever's going at the time.

Icepick

Nodin wrote: »

A grouping of anti-semites, islamophobes and racists buoyed up on occasion by the swing voting disgruntled don't strike me as a 'good option' to allow running a country. It's a bit like the climate change conference - the climate change deniers wouldn't really have anything to offer.

You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

ancapailldorcha

Icepick wrote: »

You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

This is a forum for serious debate. Please read the charter before posting again.

KingBrian2

Found this very interesting 13 regions the conservatives got 7 of them. This is a resounding victory for the right, don't wish to blow my own trumpet:D but Sarkozy is looking very good in Paris tonight, tomorrow and next general election. He was very critical of Hollande's foreign policies in relation to Russia, mass immigration and Nato.;)



http://www.irishexaminer.com/world/national-front-look-to-marine-le-pen-for-2017-presidential-race-371583.html

Trompette

Shurimgreat wrote: »

... The Far Right parties such as UKIP, FN are also very anti Europe and would like the EU to break up, ...

Sorry to be odd with you but FN don't want to leave or break EU.
In French
https://www.upr.fr/videotheque-upr/les-21-versions-contradictoires-du-fn-sur-lue-et-leuro
Sorry I can't translate, my English is too weak and worse in politic writing.
There are 21 different speeches from different FN leaders in different places and different time, all say what people listening want to hear. This is a very good tactic to get maximum of votes.
If you read the official leaflet send to all the voters, the manifesto/Statement of Principle "profession de foi" this leaflet is archived as state document for history, there is absolutely no reference of leaving EU, neither Euro, neither NATO in this document.
BTW, if you want to win a box of 6 Champagne bottles, please find these references in one of the previous election manifesto "profession de foi" and UPR party will send you the bottles. This is not a joke at all.

Trompette

I'd like to add one (first hand) citation to my previous post.
From here
at 6:47
Journalist: - Si vos êtes candidate, et donc par hypothèse élue et présidente de la République, que feriez-vous concernant l'Euro, jusqu'à il y a peu vous disiez que le préambule à toute action efficace c'est de sortir la France de l'Euro. Vous avez changé d'avis en disant que vous feriez un référendum au bout de quelques mois. Où en êtes-vous ? Allons-nous, si vos êtes présidente de la République sortir in petto, de l'Euro ?
Marine Le Pen: - Il n'a jamais ete question de cela monsieur, jamais,..
Journalist: - Si
MLP: - Jamais,
Journalist: - Ah si...
MLP: - Jamais, il y a plus de 4 ans et c'était dans mon projet présidentiel d'ailleurs, que j'ai indiqué de la manière la plus claire qu'il soit que j'entrerais en négociation avec l'UE. Tiens c'est exactement ce qu'est en train de faire la Grande-Bretagne, je vous signale, qui d'ailleurs organise un référendum pour ou contre la sortie de l'UE, donc l'idée c'est la négociation, sur 4 sujets essentiels:
- La souveraineté économique, dont la souveraineté banquaire
- La souveraineté territoriale, c'est Schengen
- La souveraineté législative, est-ce que les lois votées par les Français, parce qu'ils le veulent, sont supérieures en autorité aux directives européennes, et enfin
- La souveraineté monétaire.

My translation. (please correct if you find an error)
Journalist: - If you are a candidate, and therefore by hypothesis and elected President of the Republic, what would you do about the euro, until few time you said that the preamble to any effective action is to get France out of the euro. You have changed the opinion by saying that you would do a referendum at the end of few months. Where are you at? Are we going to, if you are President of the Republic, exit In Petto, of the euro ?
Marine le Pen: - It has never been in question of this Mr., never,
Journalist: - Yes...
MLP: - Never...
Journalist: - Yes, indeed...
MLP: - More than 4 years ago, it was in my presidential project incidentally, that I have indicated in a clear way that I would go in negotiation with the EU. Well that is exactly what Great Britain is doing, I bring to your attention, who also organizes a referendum for or against the exit of the EU, so the idea is the negotiation, on 4 essential subjects:
- the economic sovereignty, included the Bank sovereignty
- the territorial sovereignty, it is Schengen
- the legislative sovereignty, are the laws voted by the French, because they want them, are superior in authority to the European directives, and finally
- the monetary sovereignty.


Why MLP compares her negotiation project to UK negotiations? UK are NOT in Euro and NOT in Schengen... Totally different.
Does she know that every change in the UE treaty need unanimity of 28 countries to get agreement? This is impossible to get.

So as you can see she want another EU like PS, LR, FG, etc want ... and this is impossible.

KingBrian2

Like every politician Sarkozy is being done in by political corruption. If the same spotlight was shined on Socialist, Front National & Communist party members would they come out smelling of roses. France needs an alternative to the dominant Socialists that are currently in power.

Trompette

KingBrian2 wrote: »

France needs an alternative to the dominant Socialists that are currently in power.

In fact 2 parties are dominants, PS and LR (ex UMP) but they are now so close that we can say they are allied.
So, in your opinion, what party you propose?

KingBrian2

Trompette wrote: »

In fact 2 parties are dominants, PS and LR (ex UMP) but they are now so close that we can say they are allied.
So, in your opinion, what party you propose?

LR all the way.:cool:

Trompette

LR is NOT an alternative this is the SAME as PS.
They win presidential elections successively for the last 70 years and for the last ~ 30 years they have the same politic.

Edit:
They have the same politic because they can't do another: They obey Brussels