Number26 launching free mobile-first bank account in Ireland (Revolut alternative)

15MrC

From a quick look through the website, there are a number of spelling and grammar errors, and clearly there was a miscommunication involving this N26-Revenue situation.
If there's a miscommunication involving the type of card they're offering, what's to say there won't be another miscommunication involving some other account matter? From reading other posts on this, support seems to be non-existent. Lets say for example there's a hack/error/system issue like the infamous Ulster Bank one, or minor ones like the BOI issue a number of weeks ago - will they offer support? Will they keep customers informed?
I don't have a N26 account, and I'm not trying to "advocate" for the Irish banks, but for the relatively small charge they apply, is it not worth it for a bank that has branches, websites not coded with Wordpress, and call centres that actually answer?

My opinion on the €30 is that it may have been once coded as a credit card, and then possibly downgraded to a debit card, as someone mentioned. It seems from the Revenue terms, no matter how short a period the card is held, the stamp duty is payable. Unfair if true, and to be fair N26 should be paying it if this does turn out to be the case.

15MrC

From a quick look through the website, there are a number of spelling and grammar errors, and clearly there was a miscommunication involving this N26-Revenue situation.
If there's a miscommunication involving the type of card they're offering, what's to say there won't be another miscommunication involving some other account matter? From reading other posts on this, support seems to be non-existent. Lets say for example there's a hack/error/system issue like the infamous Ulster Bank one, or minor ones like the BOI issue a number of weeks ago - will they offer support? Will they keep customers informed?
I don't have a N26 account, and I'm not trying to "advocate" for the Irish banks, but for the relatively small charge they apply, is it not worth it for a bank that has branches, websites not coded with Wordpress, and call centres that actually answer?

My opinion on the €30 is that it may have been once coded as a credit card, and then possibly downgraded to a debit card, as someone mentioned. It seems from the Revenue terms, no matter how short a period the card is held, the stamp duty is payable. Unfair if true, and to be fair N26 should be paying it if this does turn out to be the case.

Delta2113

On the main page of the number 26 website it used to say:-

bank account creditcard support blog login register

They replaced "credit card" wording with "mastercard" because credit card was misleading and now suddenly they want customers to pay a €30 Irish government charge as if it is actually a credit card.

soirish

N26 chat support: "Thank you for your feedback. We will check it as soon as possible."

thomasjad

Is there a way to change your address to a random address in the UK(parcel motel for example) to avoid the charge? Or do they need to verify address changes?

soirish

thomasjad wrote: »

Is there a way to change your address to a random address in the UK(parcel motel for example) to avoid the charge? Or do they need to verify address changes?

It's not available in the UK yet.

https://number26.eu/support/countries-number26-available/

Yggr of Asgard

thomasjad wrote: »

Is there a way to change your address to a random address in the UK(parcel motel for example) to avoid the charge? Or do they need to verify address changes?

No address verification if you change it to another supported country (beside Germany), however the problem is that because you have an Irish address even for one day in their opinion you need to pay stamp duty.

The only way you can avoid it is either that they change their mind (hopefully) and classify the card correctly or that you send them a mail to widerspruch@number26.de informing them that you don't agree to the changes but that will result in the account being closed.

And even in the case of you not accepting the terms it's not clear if they don't attempt to charge you stamp duty anyhow even if it was not part of their pricelist in the old terms.

Giving that the new terms come into effect on 21 March there is still time to wait to see if us explaining them it's a debit card and not a credit card in the Irish sense changes their opinion and if Revenue agrees with our assessment.

I fired off a mail (in German) explaining the situation but keeping my objection on file with them so that in case they do not agree I can argue that the old terms did not specify this and hence i should not get stung for the charge until they close the account on the 21 March.

So if they continue to demand something than I close the account without problem, if they change the demand I continue to use the account.

Nollog

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

No address verification if you change it to another supported country (beside Germany), however the problem is that because you have an Irish address even for one day in their opinion you need to pay stamp duty.

The only way you can avoid it is either that they change their mind (hopefully) and classify the card correctly or that you send them a mail to widerspruch@number26.de informing them that you don't agree to the changes but that will result in the account being closed.

And even in the case of you not accepting the terms it's not clear if they don't attempt to charge you stamp duty anyhow even if it was not part of their pricelist in the old terms.

Giving that the new terms come into effect on 21 March there is still time to wait to see if us explaining them it's a debit card and not a credit card in the Irish sense changes their opinion and if Revenue agrees with our assessment.

I fired off a mail (in German) explaining the situation but keeping my objection on file with them so that in case they do not agree I can argue that the old terms did not specify this and hence i should not get stung for the charge until they close the account on the 21 March.

So if they continue to demand something than I close the account without problem, if they change the demand I continue to use the account.

If you have yet to use the card, you're not liable for stamp duty on date of closure.

inel

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

No address verification if you change it to another supported country (beside Germany), however the problem is that because you have an Irish address even for one day in their opinion you need to pay stamp duty.

Do you mean that in case you change it to a German address they will ask for a verification but not for other supported countries?

Yggr of Asgard

inel wrote: »

Do you mean that in case you change it to a German address they will ask for a verification but not for other supported countries?

That is my understanding when I chatted this morning to them about changing my address to a German Address, they told me that I would need to validate the address either with my Personalausweis (ID Card) or my Meldebestaetigung (German Goverment Document showing where I registered my main place of residence).

Now the agent might have just talked rubbish, so I will re-validate this tomorrow.

Remember if you live in Germany you are required by law to register your place of residence with the Government, not doing so is a crime.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Yggr of Asgard

/\/ollog wrote: »

If you have yet to use the card, you're not liable for stamp duty on date of closure.

I would be careful with that in case of Number26 as revenue does not levy a charge against the card but the account. And as the card is linked to the current account, they could argue that you used your account.

This is exactly what it makes no sense from number26 to ask for stamp duty. The card is linked to an account and works as debit card.

The "Kreditkarte" to "Creditcard" translation they have done there is just not correct.

MrBob

I could not use my number26 card to buy euro tunnel tickets and in the response to my query to number26 they said that the card is actually a prepaid credit card. Do you have to pay the €30 duty on prepaid credit cards? . See email response below

Thank you for getting in touch with us.

Your NUMBER26 MasterCard is a Prepaid Card. Currently, we do not offer debit or credit cards in your country. As soon as there is a change in that, we will inform you via our newsletter of course.

If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Or check out our support center to find answers right away:

ceroc81

Been a fan of Number26 due to their app and smooth account creation but their support seems to be really lackluster, they really need to up their game with that. They need to sort this credit/debit card debacle too.

Yggr of Asgard

MrBob wrote: »

I could not use my number26 card to buy euro tunnel tickets and in the response to my query to number26 they said that the card is actually a prepaid credit card. Do you have to pay the €30 duty on prepaid credit cards? . See email response below

Thank you for getting in touch with us.

Your NUMBER26 MasterCard is a Prepaid Card. Currently, we do not offer debit or credit cards in your country. As soon as there is a change in that, we will inform you via our newsletter of course.

If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Or check out our support center to find answers right away:

There is no stamp duty on prepaid cards but Revenue defines prepaid cards as single load up to 1000€.

Other re-loadable cards on the market (take AnPost Currency Passport) are taxed as Debit Cards.

Number26 really does not have a clue what they are doing is my impression.

Amouar

Did anyone close their account yet? I'll probably go ahead and close it aswell if the will start charging 30 Euros for the card.

Quackster

Amouar wrote: »

Did anyone close their account yet? I'll probably go ahead and close it aswell if the will start charging 30 Euros for the card.

Will wait until the middle of March. Nothing to be gained by doing it sooner. Have dropped them an email seeking clarification too.

Amouar

Quackster wrote: »

Will wait until the middle of March. Nothing to be gained by doing it sooner. Have dropped them an email seeking clarification too.

I just sent them an email too, let's see what they'll say.

Yggr of Asgard

Has anybody gotten an concrete answer out of them?

Twitter Support is ignoring the question.
E-mail are not answered (well beside the high volume message)
E-mail to wiederspruch are getting the same high volume message
Phone support does not know what's going on and asks for an e-mail.

Delta2113

Maybe the blame lies between the Irish Government and Number26 but the brand is currently getting destroyed. It's obvious they don't want to answer. Maybe that's a good sign they have just realised they have made a big mistake.

I'm holding off for now closing my account but I have cleared the account of funds. No way am I paying €30.

Yggr of Asgard

Delta2113 wrote: »

Maybe the blame lies between the Irish Government and Number26 but the brand is currently getting destroyed. It's obvious they don't want to answer. Maybe that's a good sign they have just realised they have made a big mistake.

I'm holding off for now closing my account but I have cleared the account of funds. No way am I paying €30.

I don't think Revenue is to blame here, I think it's number26 not doing their job correctly.

if you look at Revolut for example, they responded relativity fast to a twitter question that the ATM Withdraw Tax is applicable (good news as that was expected).

It's down to number26 to classify the card correctly and pay the correct amount of taxes. Sure treating it as debit card creates more work (as they need to monitor the ATM transactions) rather than blindly taking 30€.

But if you launch a product name it Debit card and then after the fact change the AGB to charge 30€ than there is a problem.

Let's see now that their co-founder got a couple of mails if he picks it up.

Dum_Dum

If I where Number26 I would just withdraw from the Irish market. It's simply not worth the aggravation. Irish banks would be overjoyed at this prospect, and their lackey Noonan would have served his purpose.

Luckycharms_74

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

I don't think Revenue is to blame here, I think it's number26 not doing their job correctly.

if you look at Revolut for example, they responded relativity fast to a twitter question that the ATM Withdraw Tax is applicable (good news as that was expected).

It's down to number26 to classify the card correctly and pay the correct amount of taxes. Sure treating it as debit card creates more work (as they need to monitor the ATM transactions) rather than blindly taking 30€.

But if you launch a product name it Debit card and then after the fact change the AGB to charge 30€ than there is a problem.

Let's see now that their co-founder got a couple of mails if he picks it up.

They saying here that ROI are liable for the €30

Yggr of Asgard

Dum_Dum wrote: »

If I where Number26 I would just withdraw from the Irish market. It's simply not worth the aggravation. Irish banks would be overjoyed at this prospect, and their lackey Noonan would have served his purpose.

Not to make this thread into a political discussion but stamp duty/atm withdraw tax is as much about generating tax revenue as it is about protecting Irish banks (of which the state still owns large parts).

Without the additional burden that this protection methods are bringing more foreign companies might have tried as it's really simple this days for banks to operate electronically in other countries.

Delta2113

I think the foreign banks would have a case under this charge being anti competitive and I even question it's legallity. I wish one of them would take up the fight on our behalf.

bk

I think Number26 could get in serious trouble here with Revenue if they are charging €30 tax when they shouldn't be and blaming it on Revenue. Revenue won't like that one bit and take such carry on quiet seriously.

If Number26 don't get back about this in a a few days, then I'd say you guys (I haven't signed up to Number26 yet) get in touch with Revenue and the Central Bank.

soirish

Try the chat support, 15 people in the queue and wait time 34 minutes :eek:

Yggr of Asgard

The challenge is that the new Terms go into effect on 21 March which means if you don't tell them that you don't accept the new terms and close your account on 02 April you will get hit with the 30€ tax for 2015 and than if you close your account in protest after that you will be charged another 30€. Sure you can get a closure letter (in theory) but you will have to pay it.

So unless number26 wakes up and does reclassify you need to dispute the new Terms before they go into effect and close you account before that, otherwise you have accepted them including the tax.

So I will wait a while until they either stick to their opinion or change it and than act accordingly, but you need to make sure you tell them about not accepting the change in time for it to stick.

My best guess, is they are going to ignore the issue until it's too late and than claim that we should have known better.

Best example is that they have changed the price list but instead of publishing a new one, they have simply updated the old one and left the date of publishing the same, hence it looks like this was in there all the time.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

crabbypaddy

bk wrote: »

I think Number26 could get in serious trouble here with Revenue if they are charging €30 tax when they shouldn't be and blaming it on Revenue. Revenue won't like that one bit and take such carry on quiet seriously.

If Number26 don't get back about this in a a few days, then I'd say you guys (I haven't signed up to Number26 yet) get in touch with Revenue and the Central Bank.

Or how about just not using their service and letting them iron out the issues themselves. Personally I'm thankful that they've taken the risk and expanded the options and competition in Ireland it can only be good for Joe Consumer. If they make a success of it other may be encouraged. We've been screwed for insurance and banking in Ireland for years. The more european competitors the better.