Number26 launching free mobile-first bank account in Ireland (Revolut alternative)

Allyall

Lucas Hood wrote: »

It's a bit annoying they can't get it right but a 5er for years banking is pretty good.

Would probably lose that much on converting cash, compared to the money N26 saves you on the exchange rates.

ahbell

Allyall wrote: »

Would probably lose that much on converting cash, compared to the money N26 saves you on the exchange rates.

I took £200 out of the ATM when I was in the UK over xmas (pre-N26) and was charged €9.54 for the privilege.

Delta2113

"Stamp duty - customers who reside in Ireland are subject to a government stamp duty on their debit card of up to 5,00 € per year"

The above information is still on number26 website. "up to 5,00 € per year" is not €5 which is what they say in the e-mail sent out.

Even when they are wrong they are not consistent with the information.

Yggr of Asgard

Delta2113 wrote: »

"Stamp duty - customers who reside in Ireland are subject to a government stamp duty on their debit card of up to 5,00 € per year"

The above information is still on number26 website. "up to 5,00 € per year" is not €5 which is what they say in the e-mail sent out.

Even when they are wrong they are not consistent with the information.

The pricelist has been updated now (and finally there is a date showing the last changes):
https://number26.de/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/number26-price-list-2016-03-03.pdf

This is the latest version as it also includes the now introduced fee for cash26 when paying in more than 100€ a month. Another fee (while not applicable for Irish Customers) a sign that they are introducing fees more broadly.

Please note if you are Irish resident: EUR 5 p.a. apply for the debit Mastercard (including stamp tax duty). This charge will be applied and automatically deducted from your account in January, always for the previous year (starting January 2017).

Delta2113

I just forwarded on the e-mail about the €5 to support@number26.de with the following wording:-

I do not accept the new terms & conditions regarding €5 and the wrong implementation of the 12 cent Irish Government ATM withdrawal tax. Please close my account immediately.

IBAN ****etc

Card ****etc.

I don't speak German so I can't complete a German form.

Regards

Yggr of Asgard

Delta2113 wrote: »

I just forwarded on the e-mail about the €5 to support@number26.de with the following wording:-

I do not accept the new terms & conditions regarding €5 and the wrong implementation of the 12 cent Irish Government ATM withdrawal tax. Please close my account immediately.

IBAN ****etc

Card ****etc.

I don't speak German so I can't complete a German form.

Regards

Don't expect a quick answer, loads of German are currently sending support mails about the new 1.5% charge for cash loading.

Delta2113

"Hey *****,

thank you for your request (0019****). Unfortunately it currently takes us between 3 to 5 days to react to your email. We are sorry for the inconvenience. In the meantime you can find an answer to almost every question in our support center.

To add further comments, simply respond to this e-mail."

Above was auto-reply I got. Apart from the €5 saga the fact I tried a transfer to my PTSB and got a insufficient fund message when I clearly had the funds in my number26 account made me close my account.

Slutmonkey57b

So do the cheerleaders from the beginning of the thread still heartily recommend this?

Never offer or accept financial, legal or medical advice on an internet forum... I expected boards to be pretty hard on this one actually.

yoshimitsu

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

So do the cheerleaders from the beginning of the thread still heartily recommend this?

Never offer or accept financial, legal or medical advice on an internet forum... I expected boards to be pretty hard on this one actually.

I'm not one of the "cheerleaders from the beginning" but I'm quite happy with the service and found it to be a valuable alternative in the otherwise quite meager panorama of (legacy) financial services offerings in this country. I cant say I'm impressed with their professionalism around the whole stamp duty issue and with their customer service in general but I will continue to use the account notwithstanding these issues. So I guess it's subjective...

As for the the comment on financial, legal and medical advice... IMHO you should always do your own due diligence. Read T&Cs carefully, shop around, read reviews... I'd do the same for a BA on cheaper electricity, parcel delivery services or chinese electronics.

Yggr of Asgard

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

So do the cheerleaders from the beginning of the thread still heartily recommend this?

Never offer or accept financial, legal or medical advice on an internet forum... I expected boards to be pretty hard on this one actually.

I initially posted this in the banking forum (before it became a bargain alert) but I would not call me a cheerleader either, my intent was and is to allow people to know about this and do their own research as with any product be it soap, electricity or a new TV, banking is just another product these days (even if traditional bankers don't like it).

Plus I was one of the first to point out the problems but back back to your question.

If you don't mind paying 5€ that are not really justified, can life with customer support of the quality that makes Virgin Media look good and want to have a modern banking interface that is superior to any Irish bank, than sure, do your research and use them.

For me personally I moved on from them but I'm lucky I have free banking anyhow.

Trojan00

When I queried the charge they sent me this Revenue link http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/stamp-duty/leaflets/stamp-duty-financial-cards.html

It states €5 for ATM and debit card stamp duty.

Yggr of Asgard

Trojan00 wrote: »

When I queried the charge they sent me this Revenue link http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/stamp-duty/leaflets/stamp-duty-financial-cards.html

It states €5 for ATM and debit card stamp duty.

Which is accurate as of September 2015 according to the page, shabby work by Revenue not to update it after the Budget 2016 changes.

If this is the quality of work that their lawyer is providing that is not a good sign.

Correct info is in Budget Summary 2016 and Stamp Duties Consolidation Act 1999 Part 9 .

And I provided these links when they came with the 30€.

Remember that we started with 30€ than went to 5€ than to "up to 5€" and now to a fee of 5€ which includes Stamp duty.

The fee is a rip-off on their side, if you don't owe stamp duty you still get charged.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

ahbell

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Usually a couple of hours if transfer is initiated in working hours.

jester77

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

Which is accurate as of September 2015 according to the page, shabby work by Revenue not to update it after the Budget 2016 changes.

If this is the quality of work that their lawyer is providing that is not a good sign.

Correct info is in Budget Summary 2016 and Stamp Duties Consolidation Act 1999 Part 9 .

And I provided these links when they came with the 30€.

Remember that we started with 30€ than went to 5€ than to "up to 5€" and now to a fee of 5€ which includes Stamp duty.

The fee is a rip-off on their side, if you don't owe stamp duty you still get charged.

hmm, the information that is provided is a joke. It's easy to see why Number26 are confused, there is conflicting information in different places. One would expect that the revenue site would be the definitive source. They are getting conflicting information sent from different sources, but one has to question if they really have an Irish lawyer, or someone who is a lawyer and looked into the Irish revenue site.

Number26 are very technically astute and are easily leading the way when it comes to fintech technology. However, I would question their business model. They seem to be naive and their model is already cracking.

loyatemu

transferred a few € from Revolut to No26 on Tuesday, it still hasn't showed up.

Yggr of Asgard

loyatemu wrote: »

transferred a few € from Revolut to No26 on Tuesday, it still hasn't showed up.

That's normal, revolut withdraws take days to be processed and reach the destination.

Trojan00

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

Which is accurate as of September 2015 according to the page, shabby work by Revenue not to update it after the Budget 2016 changes.

If this is the quality of work that their lawyer is providing that is not a good sign.

Correct info is in Budget Summary 2016 and Stamp Duties Consolidation Act 1999 Part 9 .

And I provided these links when they came with the 30€.

Remember that we started with 30€ than went to 5€ than to "up to 5€" and now to a fee of 5€ which includes Stamp duty.

The fee is a rip-off on their side, if you don't owe stamp duty you still get charged.

In fairness to them they did say in their email to me :

"Once again, the law has just changed so about next year we will apply the new one."

So, I guess they are still working on any new budget changes that will effect 2016 and beyond.

Delta2113

Got a e-mail reply from them with link to German form download or they said i could post in or e-mail in a cancellation letter so I wrote a letter on back of an envelope -took a picture and sent it via e-mail.

Bhangraman

Have been trying to set up direct debit with Three for months now. Three just called saying that Number26 seem to have "SEPA compliance issues" as the direct debit is set up but fails to take the money when the time comes. Now contacting the bank...
Anyone with Number 26 managed to set up direct debit with Three?

Dear X,

I am writing to you in reference to a complaint received for account Y.

I have reviewed your account and understand you have experience difficulties setting up your Direct Debit. I have contacted our finance team to query this and they have investigated the account details provided.

They have advised that we cannot set up a Direct Debit using these details as your bank is having SEPA compliance issue. When the Direct Debit was set up before it failed and will continue to do this until your bank has investigated this issue. You will need to contact your bank directly and query this with them.

I'm sorry I cannot be of more assistance.

Kind Regards,
Three Customer Care

soirish

People outside Germany and Austria can't sign-up anymore due to "high demand". N26 says it takes several weeks to get an invite.

clocks

soirish wrote: »

mobile-first free bank account

In the last few years there's been quite a bit of "mobile first" malarkey as some sort of innovation holy grail. Unless you're running a social network, I say it's rubbish. I much prefer doing many operations on a desktop computer rather than a phone or tablet. The latter two are fragile, easily lost and stolen.

I have an online only, no-fees bank account for the several years provided as the wholly owned subsidiary of one of the world's largest and most prestigious public banks. I don't see the need to have a start-up make the application and have the money held on trust in an actual bank.

soirish

soirish wrote: »

People outside Germany and Austria can't sign-up anymore due to "high demand". N26 says it takes several weeks to get an invite.

lol I closed my account last week!

Yggr of Asgard

N26 is running out of operating funds and requires new money, which they are currently in process of raising.

Over Easter they have started to tell their affiliates to stop advertising them as "ohne schufa" which means "without credit reference" and they are going aggressively after blogs and advertising syndicators which still advertise them as such.

They also have started to request and report to the account to schufa (think ICB but on steroids as most financial transactions like mobile phone, TV etc are reported to it) if you want an overdraft (even if the overdraft was not given, which is currently being challenged in court).

They are in the process to even move to Schufa request when you open the account, they want to get away from the "ohne schufa" image because that is not interesting to investors as it limits the amount of money making products N26 can sell.

Wirecard is the king of "ohne schufa" with debit cards and accounts tailored at that segment and charges enormous amounts of money for it.

Germany also introduced a law that requires banks to open a basic current account (with debit card) even if the schufa is negative, so this is current the main income source away from the "ohne schufa" accounts.

If you look at blogs/forums the "ohne schufa" was a big part why people went to N26, so was the fact, that N26 paid high referrals fees to advertisers and blogs.

N26 in their need to get more funds is now ditching the "ohne schufa" and also countries outside their initial core countries because they need to introduce income generating products so that they can at least have the impression of making money.

And you can thank the EU for it, because N26 was conceived during the high card interchange period in which N26 got nearly 2% of each card transaction, while now it's down to 0.3%, so that revenue is falling away.

OU812

You seem to be fairly knowledgeable about this Yggr... would you suggest withdrawing funds?

jamescook

clocks wrote: »

I have an online only, no-fees bank account for the several years provided as the wholly owned subsidiary of one of the world's largest and most prestigious public banks.

Which one is that?

Yggr of Asgard

OU812 wrote: »

You seem to be fairly knowledgeable about this Yggr... would you suggest withdrawing funds?

I think you need to draw you own conclusions out of your own experience , your usage pattern and reports from other customers.

Funds in your N26 account are held with Wirecard which are covered by the German Deposit Insurance giving you cover up to 100000€.

Plus in theory at least an additional cover of up to 20% of Wirecards own capital via the private banking association. So unless you want to park large amount of money there your funds should be fine.

I think they are going to restructure and introduce fees, get rid of customers they don't want and possible modify their business outside Germany/Austria, so much is clear. They already have the Irish Fee and Cash26 fee.

Does it warrant withdrawing funds now? Well you are going to pay your 5€ fee so why not continue using the account until they introduce changes you don't like and than go or go now if you don't have a good feeling.

I closed my account when they did the last u-turn on the 5€ fee and proved that they are not a reliable operation I can count on. Real time notifications via the app are not worth the crazy customer service and their obvious gaps in understanding compliance.

I would not put all my eggs in a basket and rely only on N26 especially if you travel (there are regions in Asia where the card will just not work due to way it is coded) and need a card to pay for stuff/withdraw cash. It pays to always have a backup card.

But all of this is my 2 cents only.

Amouar

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

I think you need to draw you own conclusions out of your own experience , your usage pattern and reports from other customers.

Funds in your N26 account are held with Wirecard which are covered by the German Deposit Insurance giving you cover up to 100000€.

Plus in theory at least an additional cover of up to 20% of Wirecards own capital via the private banking association. So unless you want to park large amount of money there your funds should be fine.

I think they are going to restructure and introduce fees, get rid of customers they don't want and possible modify their business outside Germany/Austria, so much is clear. They already have the Irish Fee and Cash26 fee.

Does it warrant withdrawing funds now? Well you are going to pay your 5€ fee so why not continue using the account until they introduce changes you don't like and than go or go now if you don't have a good feeling.

I closed my account when they did the last u-turn on the 5€ fee and proved that they are not a reliable operation I can count on. Real time notifications via the app are not worth the crazy customer service and their obvious gaps in understanding compliance.

I would not put all my eggs in a basket and rely only on N26 especially if you travel and need a card to pay for stuff/withdraw cash. It pays to always have a backup card.

But all of this is my 2 cents only.

I'm keeping my N26 for the following reasons:

1) I will be able to use it to withdraw FX money once I reach the 650€ revolut limit as N26 is still very good compared to a normal bank

2) I pay all my weekend FX transactions using N26 as it beats Revolut's weekend exchange rates.

These 2 reasons are very important IMO and worth having an N26 account.

Yggr of Asgard

Amouar wrote: »

I'm keeping my N26 for the following reasons:

1) I will be able to use it to withdraw FX money once I reach the 650€ revolut limit as N26 is still very good compared to a normal bank

2) I pay all my weekend FX transactions using N26 as it beats Revolut's weekend exchange rates.

These 2 reasons are very important IMO and worth having an N26 account.

I agree, the weekend rates and the ATM fair usage restriction on Revolut are bad and N26 is a good alternative for those.

Which I why I say, don't put all your eggs in a basket.

This especially as they are Mastercard branded and when next week the VISA ATM's can charge direct customer fee's it might make it even more value than using an Irish Visa Debit card as with the exception of some Countries (US/Thailand/Philippines/Indonesia) most Mastercard ATM's don't charge a direct customer fee.

Amouar

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

I agree, the weekend rates and the ATM fair usage restriction on Revolut are bad and N26 is a good alternative for those.

Which I why I say, don't put all your eggs in a basket.

This especially as they are Mastercard branded and when next week the VISA ATM's can charge direct customer fee's it might make it even more value than using an Irish Visa Debit card as with the exception of some Countries (US/Thailand/Philippines/Indonesia) most Mastercard ATM's don't charge a direct customer fee.

Can you give more details on the Visa fee? I wasn't aware of it.