There's no such thing as Santa Claus!!!

Weatherproof79

haminka wrote: »

Yep, and where's the problem for the other to say - well, I believe in something else? That's how children grow up, learning to cope with different opinions on stuff they believe in.

Now you're contradicting yourself Ham. You went from saying you're 5 year old won't be going in to school telling others Santa isn't real and I said thats impossible to keep a 5 year old quiet so you changed you're position to what's the problem with her going in and saying he isn't real "That's how children grow up".

"everybody's beliefs need be respected. That would mean that she won't be running around telling kids there's no Santa (because some children believe in Santa) like doesn't run around telling children there's no God and laughing at them for believing in it."

"Yep, and where's the problem for the other to say - well, I believe in something else? That's how children grow up, learning to cope with different opinions on stuff they believe in"

Hypocrite. Well well done ruining xmas for a class of five year olds. I'm sure their parents will love to see them coming home crying before Xmas but according to you that's "How Children grow up"

They're 5 for crying out loud. What a horrible person

michael.dublin

Have to say my 3 kids LOVE santa, sending him letters and all that stuff, I would not ruin it for them, by saying he is not real.
Having said that, then it is time to reveal he is not true, this might come in handy….


IS THERE A SANTA CLAUS?
1. No known species of reindeer can fly. BUT there are 300,000 species of living organisms yet to be classified, and while most of these are insects and germs, this does not COMPLETELY rule out flying reindeer which only Santa has ever seen.
2. There are 2 billion children (persons under 18) in the world. BUT since Santa doesn't (appear to) handle the Muslim, Hindu, Jewish and Buddhist children, that reduces the workload to 15% of the total - 378 million according to Population Reference Bureau. At an average (census)rate of 3.5 children per household, that's 91.8 million homes. One presumes there's at least one good child in each.
3. Santa has 31 hours of Christmas to work with, thanks to the different time zones and the rotation of the earth, assuming he travels east to west(which seems logical). This works out to 822.6 visits per second. This is to say that for each Christian household with good children, Santa has 1/1000th of a second to park, hop out of the sleigh, jump down the chimney, fill the stockings, distribute the remaining presents under the tree, eat whatever snacks have been left, get back up the chimney, get back into the sleigh and move on to the next house. Assuming that each of these 91.8 million stops are evenly distributed around the earth (which, of course, we know to be false but for the purposes of our calculations we will accept), we are now talking about .78 miles per household, a total trip of 75-1/2 million miles, not counting stops to do what most of us must do at least once every 31 hours, plus feeding etc.
This means that Santa's sleigh is moving at 650 miles per second, 3,000 times the speed of sound. For purposes of comparison, the fastest man- made vehicle on earth, the Ulysses space probe, moves at a poky 27.4 miles per second - a conventional reindeer can run, tops, 15 miles per hour.
4. The payload on the sleigh adds another interesting element. Assuming that each child gets nothing more than a medium-sized lego set (2 pounds), the sleigh is carrying 321,300 tons, not counting Santa, who is invariably described as overweight. On land, conventional reindeer can pull no more than 300 pounds. Even granting that "flying reindeer" (see point #1) could pull TEN TIMES the normal anoint, we cannot do the job with eight, or even nine. We need 214,200 reindeer. This increases the payload - not even counting the weight of the sleigh - to 353,430 tons. Again, for comparison - this is four times the weight of the Queen Elizabeth.
5. 353,000 tons traveling at 650 miles per second creates enormous air resistance - this will heat the reindeer up in the same fashion as spacecrafts re-entering the earth's atmosphere. The lead pair of reindeer will absorb 14.3 QUINTILLION joules of energy. Per second. Each. In short, they will burst into flame almost instantaneously, exposing the reindeer behind them, and create deafening sonic booms in their wake.The entire reindeer team will be vaporized within 4.26 thousandths of a second. Santa, meanwhile, will be subjected to centrifugal forces 17,500.06 times greater than gravity. A 250-pound Santa (which seems ludicrously slim)would be pinned to the back of his sleigh by 4,315,015 pounds of force.
In conclusion -- If Santa ever DID deliver presents on Christmas Eve, he's dead now

Medusa22

Penny Tration wrote: »

What my folks did worked for us -

Let us believe in Santa, but explained things to us like this, so we wouldn't ask for mental amounts of gifts - you know how making presents costs Santa lots of money? Well he doesn't have that much money. So Mammy and daddy have to pay for half of it because that way he can give presents to the kids whose mammies and daddies have no money. So if what you want costs too much, it means some poor little girl with no money won't get a nice present and you want everyone to get presents, don't you?

Made us aware that things cost money but didn't spoil the magic of believing in Santa.

Your post reminded me that I was always aware that santa wouldn't just bring anything I asked for, but I can't remember how my parents phrased it. I know that when we wrote our letters that we were told to ask santa for two presents and that santa would also get us a surprise. I had friends who used to write really long lists, hoping to get everything on the list and were disappointed when they'd get a few things. I think it helped that we asked for what we wanted and we got it, but if it was too expensive or something like that then my parents usually persuaded us to ask for something else. I always wanted to get a dog but they told me that santa didn't give animals as presents because some people don't look after them properly.

LordSutch

Akrasia wrote: »

The way we're going to handle it, is we're going to play along with the game but as the kids get older, we'll encourage them to think a bit more critically about it and discover the truth on their own.

Kids are kids and we all loved the magic & mystery of Santa Claus, until (insert age), and in my case I was nearly twelve when it occurred to me that my Dad had something to do with the manufacture of one of my Santa presents, and the penny dropped . . . what a downer when Mum & Dad admitted that there was no Santa

Mind you, I had my doubts about Santa for a year or two before.

Six years of age, and kids really are in that 'magic zone' of Santa magic.

nozzferrahhtoo

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I think when it comes to children, it's no harm to indulge their imaginations. I think it's very harsh and frankly I'd consider it a bit silly for an adult to ruin the spirit of Christmas for a child. I wouldn't be Christmas' biggest fan, but I wouldn't go telling my child Santa isn't real or anything else, let him indulge his imagination for another while and he'll discover for himself eventually.

Santa is not really "the spirit of Christmas" though. So not doing the Santa thing is not the same as ruining the spirit of Christmas for them.

Nor is selling them lies a failure of indulging their imaginations. The world of a child's imagination is perfectly easy to indulge, enjoy, nurture and develop without them ever having to believe the things they imagine are actually true or real.

So no, I am not seeing anything "silly" there, let alone "harsh".

haminka

Weatherproof79 wrote: »

Now you're contradicting yourself Ham. You went from saying you're 5 year old won't be going in to school telling others Santa isn't real and I said thats impossible to keep a 5 year old quiet so you changed you're position to what's the problem with her going in and saying he isn't real "That's how children grow up".

"everybody's beliefs need be respected. That would mean that she won't be running around telling kids there's no Santa (because some children believe in Santa) like doesn't run around telling children there's no God and laughing at them for believing in it."

"Yep, and where's the problem for the other to say - well, I believe in something else? That's how children grow up, learning to cope with different opinions on stuff they believe in"

Hypocrite. Well well done ruining xmas for a class of five year olds. I'm sure their parents will love to see them coming home crying before Xmas but according to you that's "How Children grow up"

They're 5 for crying out loud. What a horrible person

I see no contradiction in that. She doesn't believe in Santa bringing presents. She can keep quiet about it but should it come to a discussion she was brought up to respect others.
If believing in Santa is the only thing that makes Christmas magical for you and your family, then I pity you. We've never had Santa and our Christmas was always magical, I still find the time the most beautiful one in the year, with all the beautiful traditions we have before the Christmas Eve and during the Christmas period. I value most when I can sit down with my daughter and decorate cookies, having a laugh while listening to and singing Christmas carols. No shop-bought decoration on our Christmas tree will be as beautiful as those that she made herself and the feeling of joy and pride on her face when she's decorating the tree. And with her parents working she always treasures the time when we can wake up together, plan the day ahead and then sit down in the evening around the fire and just relax and wind down the day or have a Christmas movie night with popcorn and roast chestnuts. If she one day decides to create another tradition for her children and let them believe in Santa, I certainly won't be the mean Nan who tells them he doesn't exist. But it's not our tradition and I don't feel ashamed for it and I won't feel guilty because other parents do it differently. There's a song I remember from when I was a teenager: "Let's all write with the same pen, the same A and the same O ..... " Reminds me of something .....

Into The Blue

If you've never had Santa, how can you speak with authority on the subject? You literally have no idea what people are discussing here.

To try and give you some insight, imagine someone coming along, enforcing their parenting on you and your family in such a way that you lose out on making decorations and cookies with your daughter... ie, you can never do it again.

Weatherproof79

Didn't read you wall of drivel. You think it's ok for your 5 year old to tell her classmates Santa isn't real because it's " a part of growing up" As I said in my first post. Misery guts. Keep trying to justify the unnecessary hurt and pain that will be inflicted upon a bunch of 5 years old. Good day scrooge

haminka

Into The Blue wrote: »

If you've never had Santa, how can you speak with authority on the subject? You literally have no idea what people are discussing here.

Are we discussing the very existence of Santa or not now or are we discussing the subject of parents telling their children there's Santa vs. those who don't the Santa thing?

twowheelsonly

I'll see you your 6 year old and raise you !!

Last week I was in a hospital in Cork at the X-Ray dept. There was a guy there with his twin boys, aged 7 or 8 maximum. The nurse, as they do, got chatting to the two boys about school, Christmas etc. Asked them what they were getting from Santa. Awkward silence as the two boys stared at the floor and the father piped up that he had told them 'the truth' when they were 3 !! Everyone was just stunned.
Nurse resumes a very awkward conversation and they tell her that they still get a new game for Christmas. "What's your favourite game?" - "Black Ops" . The poor nurse didn't even know what that was but I just had to shake my head. I told her afterwards and she couldn't believe it.

That, to my mind, is flucked up parenting at its best.
On one hand the kids are not allowed to enjoy a childhood fantasy for a few years but can happily play an adult fantasy game not designed for them.

(If anyone doesn't know, Black Ops is an 18+ fantasy 'Shoot em Up' video game featuring Cyborgs, Robotics and Humanoid Drones.)

looksee

Ah, Michael.dublin get with the plot will you, you are not allowing for magic and fairy dust!

I don't think we really have to have extreme views on Santa, you don't have to go out of your way to make him 'real' and you don't have to flatly deny him either. No reason why the kids cant understand that Santa brings some presents and parents and other relations give others.

Kids are quite capable of simultaneously believing and not believing in something, with no stress. Eventually they catch on or ask questions and you don't have to tell outright lies or be harshly realistic. A child says 'is santa real' and you say, well what do you think? If they are under about 8 and have concluded that there is no santa its quite possible to say 'some little children like to believe in santa, so don't go telling them what you have decided'.

haminka

Weatherproof79 wrote: »

Didn't read you wall of drivel. You think it's ok for your 5 year old to tell her classmates Santa isn't real because it's " a part of growing up" As I said in my first post. Misery guts. Keep trying to justify the unnecessary hurt and pain that will be inflicted upon a bunch of 5 years old. Good day scrooge

You just deliberately misquoted me and that's fine by me if that's the only way you can win an argument.

Into The Blue

haminka wrote: »

You just deliberately misquoted me and that's fine by me if that's the only way you can win an argument.

There's no winners here... Just sad children.

Alf Veedersane

haminka wrote: »

I see no contradiction in that. She doesn't believe in Santa bringing presents. She can keep quiet about it but should it come to a discussion she was brought up to respect others.
If believing in Santa is the only thing that makes Christmas magical for you and your family, then I pity you. We've never had Santa and our Christmas was always magical, I still find the time the most beautiful one in the year, with all the beautiful traditions we have before the Christmas Eve and during the Christmas period. I value most when I can sit down with my daughter and decorate cookies, having a laugh while listening to and singing Christmas carols. No shop-bought decoration on our Christmas tree will be as beautiful as those that she made herself and the feeling of joy and pride on her face when she's decorating the tree. And with her parents working she always treasures the time when we can wake up together, plan the day ahead and then sit down in the evening around the fire and just relax and wind down the day or have a Christmas movie night with popcorn and roast chestnuts. If she one day decides to create another tradition for her children and let them believe in Santa, I certainly won't be the mean Nan who tells them he doesn't exist. But it's not our tradition and I don't feel ashamed for it and I won't feel guilty because other parents do it differently. There's a song I remember from when I was a teenager: "Let's all write with the same pen, the same A and the same O ..... " Reminds me of something .....

What you have described is of course a great experience. It's not 'magical' though.

The notion of Santa adds a touch of magic.

That's not to say you can't have a wonderful time at Christmas but for kids that believe in it, the magic of Santa is part of it.

Santa isn't Christmas. It adds to the Christmas atmosphere for many kids.

So I don't get why so many adults seem to think it's better that young kids are disabused of the notion that Santa exists. I'm not saying you do and I don't really think there's anything questionable in your opinions.

But I do think the notion that kids should be told Santa doesn't exist because corporations/too many presents/it's nonsense is guff.

kunst nugget

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Santa is not really "the spirit of Christmas" though. So not doing the Santa thing is not the same as ruining the spirit of Christmas for them.

What is the spirit of Christmas? I'm sure if you ask 10 different people, you'll get ten different answers. For some, it's Santa Claus and the Christmas decorations, for some it's spending time with family, for some it's going out partying, for some it's contemplation of the birth of Christ, for some it's helping out the poor, for some it's all of the above or none of the above.

Weatherproof79

haminka wrote: »

You just deliberately misquoted me and that's fine by me if that's the only way you can win an argument.

No I didn't

"everybody's beliefs need be respected. That would mean that she won't be running around telling kids there's no Santa (because some children believe in Santa) like doesn't run around telling children there's no God and laughing at them for believing in it."

To which I said you can't train a five year old to keep quiet they will tell the other kids no matter what it's what kids do. To which you replied

"Yep, and where's the problem for the other to say - well, I believe in something else? That's how children grow up, learning to cope with different opinions on stuff they believe in"

So you're a hypocrite and I didn't misquote you. You're excuse for a bunch of 5 years old Christmases getting ruined is "That's how children grow up"

I didn't misquote you I just pointed out what you are and you had to resort to lies and you make this about "winning" which is sad. I see this as a classroom of 5 years old Christmas being destroyed because of an insensitive oik

haminka

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

What you have described is of course a great experience. It's not 'magical' though.

The notion of Santa adds a touch of magic.

That's not to say you can't have a wonderful time at Christmas but for kids that believe in it, the magic of Santa is part of it.

Santa isn't Christmas. It adds to the Christmas atmosphere for many kids.

So I don't get why so many adults seem to think it's better that young kids are disabused of the notion that Santa exists. I'm not saying you do and I don't really think there's anything questionable in your opinions.

But I do think the notion that kids should be told Santa doesn't exist because corporations/too many presents/it's nonsense is guff.

Let's just agree that we disagree on the concept of magic. And as another poster above said, children are perfectly capable of believing and not believing at the same time. Whenever we go for a walk or in the evenings, I tell my daughter stories I'm making up about the places we see or where we live. Those stories are full of fairies, magical creatures etc. And she believes those stories and doesn't believe at the same time. Her imagination loves them and lives them, her brain's telling her it's only fairy tales. It's like adults watching Game of Thrones, Star Trek or Star Wars. We are perfectly capable of it and it doesn't make us misers when we know it's a great fantasy.

iguana

Medusa22 wrote: »

Your post reminded me that I was always aware that santa wouldn't just bring anything I asked for, but I can't remember how my parents phrased it. I know that when we wrote our letters that we were told to ask santa for two presents and that santa would also get us a surprise. I had friends who used to write really long lists, hoping to get everything on the list and were disappointed when they'd get a few things. I think it helped that we asked for what we wanted and we got it, but if it was too expensive or something like that then my parents usually persuaded us to ask for something else. I always wanted to get a dog but they told me that santa didn't give animals as presents because some people don't look after them properly.

I'm telling my son that as Santa lives in the Artic he's quite the environmentalist and big into recycling. This means Santa is more likely to find a few extra surprises for a child who asks for gifts that the elves can refurbish rather than have to make from scratch. Hopefully that should head off any requests for mega expensive must have toys and give me the option to keep finding stuff on Adverts/DoneDeal for a bit longer.

homerjay2005

The_Valeyard wrote: »

That parent is a right cnut. Let kids be kids and see the world as a magical place, before reality and adulthood kicks in.

summed up in one.

absolutely no need to tell her kids this, christmas is a magical time for parents and kids and this witch has not only robbed her kid of this, but now the other kids.

what sort of a complete and utter c*nt would do that? i bet that child never gets anything off their parents for any other special day either. what next will she tell them, "your birthday isnt real either" ??

Alf Veedersane

haminka wrote: »

Let's just agree that we disagree on the concept of magic. And as another poster above said, children are perfectly capable of believing and not believing at the same time. Whenever we go for a walk or in the evenings, I tell my daughter stories I'm making up about the places we see or where we live. Those stories are full of fairies, magical creatures etc. And she believes those stories and doesn't believe at the same time. Her imagination loves them and lives them, her brain's telling her it's only fairy tales. It's like adults watching Game of Thrones, Star Trek or Star Wars. We are perfectly capable of it and it doesn't make us misers when we know it's a great fantasy.

What ytou had described in the previous post wasn't magical. It was a description of a wonderful Christmas, yes. But making decorations and decorating the tree with them etc doesn't involve magic. That's all I'm saying.

I don't see how telling stories of fairies and magical creatures etc is any different to a parent telling their child about Santa.

You don't need to tell your daughter not to believe in the stories. She enjoys them.

I don't see why parents just can't let their kids of a certain age enjoy the story of Santa to whatever degree they believe it.

nozzferrahhtoo

kunst nugget wrote: »

What is the spirit of Christmas? I'm sure if you ask 10 different people, you'll get ten different answers.

My point exactly. Someone declaring one thing, in this case "Santa" as being "the" spirit of Christmas is merely projecting their own values on to others.

namloc1980

It really is only for a few years that the Santa thing lasts. I know my happiest Christmas' were when I was fully into Santa and it was amazing running down the stairs on Christmas morning to find that he brought these gifts all the way from the North Pole. After finding out, it wasn't quite the same.

I'm not religious in the slightest but Santa is a big part of our household. The kids excitement is already huge and there's still a few weeks to go! Pretty sad to see people dismiss it or that they told their kids so that they would be more "mature" than their peers.

kunst nugget

I think the golden rule should be:

If you do the Santa thing, that's great. If you don't do the Santa thing that's great. Just don't be a dick about to people that don't share your point of view on it. That goes for both sides.

Letting your kids believe in Santa isn't lying to your kids and setting them up for a life of gullibility, disappointment and heartbreak anymore than not letting them believe in Santa is consigning them to some Dickensian childhood dystopia bereft of magic and imagination.

Shenshen

Honestly now. I don't have children, but if I did why would I start telling them some nonsense about Santa Claus being real??
Has it ever occurred to people that Santa isn't exactly a global phenomenon? He certainly wasn't ever mentioned where I'm from. Why is there such outcry if someone decides to not do things exactly the same?

There were some christmas myths and stories when I grew up, but I've never witnessed such mindless determination to cling on to them and so many people hell-bent on making sure kids don't find out the truths... where is this fanatism coming from? A number of posts in the thread are downright scary.

Micky Dolenz

Santa is real as long as you believe. Once you stop believing he stops too.

Kids with half a brain will "believe" for as long as possible. Santa brings the best presents.

The Bishop Basher

Shenshen wrote: »

Honestly now. I don't have children, but if I did why would I start telling them some nonsense about Santa Claus being real??
Has it ever occurred to people that Santa isn't exactly a global phenomenon? He certainly wasn't ever mentioned where I'm from. Why is there such outcry if someone decides to not do things exactly the same?

There were some christmas myths and stories when I grew up, but I've never witnessed such mindless determination to cling on to them and so many people hell-bent on making sure kids don't find out the truths... where is this fanatism coming from? A number of posts in the thread are downright scary.

Oh dear. We have another one :rolleyes:

Calm down Shenshen. You'll give yourself indigestion

Into The Blue

Shenshen wrote: »

Honestly now. I don't have children, but if I did why would I start telling them some nonsense about Santa Claus being real??
Has it ever occurred to people that Santa isn't exactly a global phenomenon? He certainly wasn't ever mentioned where I'm from. Why is there such outcry if someone decides to not do things exactly the same?

There were some christmas myths and stories when I grew up, but I've never witnessed such mindless determination to cling on to them and so many people hell-bent on making sure kids don't find out the truths... where is this fanatism coming from? A number of posts in the thread are downright scary.

dont worry about it.

iguana

Into The Blue wrote: »

To try and give you some insight, imagine someone coming along, enforcing their parenting on you and your family in such a way that you lose out on making decorations and cookies with your daughter... ie, you can never do it again.

The opposite is actually going on here though. People who want to do Santa with their are trying to enforce that on other parents on the off chance that the children who know the truth will out the fact that Santa is a lie. Live and let live. Children of the Santa believing age are most influenced by their parents so if you can't come up with a convincing story to keep the Santa myth alive with your kids after they first hear from some child that he isn't real, then it's your own parenting you have to worry about, not somebody who has made a decision to do it differently.

namloc1980

Shenshen wrote: »

Honestly now. I don't have children...

Well don't get too worked up about it then.

Alf Veedersane

Shenshen wrote: »

A number of posts in the thread are downright scary.

Scary?

Lots of things aren't global. Not sure what difference that makes.

There's a big difference between 'making sure kids don't find out the truths' and letting them believe a harmless story about a magical character...a fat man in red who brings presents.

It's not the work of the Illuminati.

Shenshen

Swanner wrote: »

Oh dear. We have another one :rolleyes:

Calm down Shenshen. You'll give yourself indigestion

Yep, can't wait to be labelled a c*nt and a b*tch and whatever else names have been thrown around here once I do have kids. :rolleyes:

Into The Blue

iguana wrote: »

The opposite is actually going on here though. People who want to do Santa with their are trying to enforce that on other parents on the off chance that the children who know the truth will out the fact that Santa is a lie. Live and let live. Children of the Santa believing age are most influenced by their parents so if you can't come up with a convincing story to keep the Santa myth alive with your kids after they first hear from some child that he isn't real, then it's your own parenting you have to worry about, not somebody who has made a decision to do it differently.

i couldn't care less what some little miserable kid says to my kids, ill always be able to repair damage done in the school yard.
it's the little poor miserable kids i feel sorry for, never experiencing the magic of santa at christmas.

think you're reading too much into one of my posts there..

Into The Blue

Shenshen wrote: »

Yep, can't wait to be labelled a c*nt and a b*tch and whatever else names have been thrown around here once I do have kids. :rolleyes:

come again? think you're projecting there..

Knine

I was at hospital yesterday with my 8 year old. Her whole life has consisted of hospitals, horribles tests & procedures & ops.

Yesterday she decided nope she was not having that scan. With her limited speech I was told " No mammy we will do it the next day" followed by an escape attempt.

So out came my phone & the Santa Fake call App. :-) There was a pure look of horror on her face. I did not even have to open the App. With a sudden burst of speed she was trying to get onto the scan table herself.

Why would someone try to take that joy from a child.

Shenshen

Into The Blue wrote: »

come again? think you're projecting there..

Nope, just reading through the replies in the thread.
This and worse is what the mother who decided not to convince her child Santa is real has been called.

JJJJNR

I get my kids to sneak some stuff on their lists for me, last year I got new mountain bike gear (tubes and knee pads etc) and this year think im getting the same, but getting the ಠ_ಠ look from the youngest now when I suggest it, so might have to write my own list. I wouldn't dream of telling them.

Into The Blue

Shenshen wrote: »

Nope, just reading through the replies in the thread.
This and worse is what the mother who decided not to convince her child Santa is real has been called.

actually just read posts five and six!! apologies, i do not agree with that sort of thing.

Sleepy

Shenshen wrote: »

Yep, can't wait to be labelled a c*nt and a b*tch and whatever else names have been thrown around here once I do have kids. :rolleyes:

It's okay. Tell your imaginary kids what you like.

Just be prepared for the tears when the other kids think your child must be incredibly bold if Santa doesn't come to them and the hatred of other parents if you ruin their Children's Christmas.

Shurimgreat

Probably one of those progressive lefty parents who despises the establishment and all that and thinks Santa Claus is the most evil concept known to man and kids shouldn't be lied to and all that. Probably told the child there's no tooth fairy either! What a miserable household that must be!

Ave Sodalis

Alf Veedersane wrote:

There's a big difference between 'making sure kids don't find out the truths' and letting them believe a harmless story about a magical character...a fat man in red who brings presents.

Exactly. Do those protesting Santa also have a problem with children reading books? God forbid they use their imagination and believe in Hogwarts or worse, Narnia!

Ave Sodalis

Shurimgreat wrote:

Probably one of those progressive lefty parents who despises the establishment and all that and thinks Santa Claus is the most evil concept known to man and kids shouldn't be lied to and all that. Probably told the child there's no tooth fairy either! What a miserable household that must be!

If anything, I would argue they're more righty than lefty.

_Brian

trixychic wrote: »

I think that comes down to the actual parents!!!! Some people just give their kids the toy book and keep saying yes. They give way too much and the magic isn't focused on.

My boys get what I got. A present and a stocking filler. We focus as much on the magic as possible. There is only pressure when you make it. Kids don't need a brand new tablet and a doll and a bike and all the rest. They are happy with a cardboard box and markers.

I agree with this.
Our girls aren't allowed to write mad long lists of demands. From the beginning we encouraged them to ask for a surprise from Samta and that's the way it's remained.
This keeps the magic going and leave no pressure on us at all, we get what we think they will enjoy best for their age, we don't pass any remarks of what their friends are getting either.

Our eldest is in secondary now and obviously beyond Santa, but She still wants a surprise Christmas morning so she can join in the magic with her little sister.

A parent who spoils Santa for a six year old is just a disgrace.

Weatherproof79

To make this about being right or left wing is utterly unfathomable

namloc1980

Shenshen wrote: »

Yep, can't wait to be labelled a c*nt and a b*tch and whatever else names have been thrown around here once I do have kids. :rolleyes:

It really is only for a handful of years that kids are fully into the Santa thing. They have the rest of their lives for reality. Kids love using imagination and being indulged in that. Anyone who would deny that is doing it purely for their own selfish reasons and not for the benefit of the kids.

valoren

Remember the excitement, the anticipation, the awe and wonder on Christmas eve/Christmas Day that you had as a child regarding the whole Santa 'process'?

Travelling around the whole world in one night and actually coming to your house!
Coming down your chimney with his magic dust. Eating the biscuits and mince pie and drinking the stout you left out, Rudolph eating his carrot and leaving the gifts we asked for under the tree.

What a wonderful thing that is for a child.

Part of maturing and part of growing up of course is moving on from that Santa mythos.
Every child goes through it at some point, the steadfast refusal to believe there is no Santa develops into a questioning of how the Santa process described above could even work being the natural way of it.

If a parent decides to (cynically, imo) deny a child that experience then that's their own prerogative.
And who am I to question how they raise their kids.

But for me that magic was an indelible part of our childhood at home.
We all have our own unique life experience, the mature grown up experiences coming as we grow up but I always remember with great fondness that time in my childhood.

Azalea

sup_dude wrote: »

If anything, I would argue they're more righty than lefty.

Seems very much left-wing to me - stereotypically so.

One person who said they wouldn't lie to their kids about Santa (because of course we tell the truth to children all the time) believes in God though, so they're not always atheist. I'm atheist and passionately embrace the Santa story.

The Bishop Basher

iguana wrote: »

The opposite is actually going on here though. People who want to do Santa with their are trying to enforce that on other parents on the off chance that the children who know the truth will out the fact that Santa is a lie. Live and let live.

Interesting perspective....

I suppose in this part of the world we do have Santa so we look to protect the tradition. The problem is that it only really works when everyone else is on board. They don't have to believe but equally they shouldn't ruin it for those who do....

It only takes one child in a class to spoil it for the other 30 kids and anecdotally this seems to be becoming more and more common. So should we ignore that and just let the tradition die or should we protect it and pass it on to future generations.

I'm with option 2 :-)

iguana wrote: »

Children of the Santa believing age are most influenced by their parents so if you can't come up with a convincing story to keep the Santa myth alive with you kids after they first hear from some child that he isn't real, then it's your own parenting you have to worry about, not somebody who has made a decision to do it differently.

They shouldn't have to hear he isn't real at such a young. That's the whole point...

But judging by the tone of the posts of those that don't do Santa with their children, they seem to believe they're somehow superior for adopting that position. In the same way as Atheists feel superior over theists until they actually learn a bit about theology or grow up. It would be reasonable to assume that this superiority complex is passed onto their children and of course they're all within their rights up to this point...

But when that jumped up little **** decides to lord it over his classmates in school and tell my kid that Santa doesn't exist, it becomes my problem and i would be well within my rights to feel that i'm having somebody else's parenting views forced on me and my family.

So where does that leave live and let live ?

wes

Did the parent in question also shout out "Bah Humbug" as well.

Santa is a bit of fun for the kids and to make it out to be something harmful, is really rather silly imho.

_Brian

Shenshen wrote: »

Honestly now. I don't have children, but if I did why would I start telling them some nonsense about Santa Claus being real??
Has it ever occurred to people that Santa isn't exactly a global phenomenon? He certainly wasn't ever mentioned where I'm from. Why is there such outcry if someone decides to not do things exactly the same?

There were some christmas myths and stories when I grew up, but I've never witnessed such mindless determination to cling on to them and so many people hell-bent on making sure kids don't find out the truths... where is this fanatism coming from? A number of posts in the thread are downright scary.

To be fair to and have respect for others the parent and child need to be sure not to spoil Christmas for families that do enjoy it.

Ave Sodalis

Azalea wrote:

Seems very much left-wing to me - stereotypically so.

I would have argued right wing because it's very black and white. Santa doesn't exist so shouldn't be believed in. It's not practical to believe in something that doesn't exist. That kind of thinking.