There's no such thing as Santa Claus!!!

The Bishop Basher

iguana wrote: »

No you just used swear words to describe children who don't believe in Santa.

No. I used a swear word to describe the little **** who decides to tell my kids that Santa doesn't exist. He's not a little **** because he doesn't believe, he's a little **** for trying to spoil my daughters Christmas.

iguana wrote: »

Denigrated parents who don't do it your way. And called their honesty a problem for you and accused them of ruining the delusion you created.

I haven't denigrated anyone for not teaching their kids about Santa. I gave an opinion on the lefty liberal types that congregate outside the local educate together telling anyone who'll listen how progressive they are and how good Tarquin is with his hands. That's my opinion and it has nothing to do with Santa. If you read the post in context you would have seen that.

iguana wrote: »

So you far, far beyond hinted at it. But as I said people believe what they want to believe so you believe it's your way or the highway but don't believe that you believe it.:p

Look, if you want to keep misrepresenting my posts and making stuff up to win some imaginary battle in your head, go right ahead. But it's getting a little tiresome having to explain myself to you when you're clearly struggling to comprehend my position... . If you understood and disagreed It would be fine but it's not rocket science so shouldn't be this difficult..

So to clarify....

I believe everyone has the right to celebrate Christmas anyway they see fit. They don't however have the right to push their agenda on others and yes, little johnny going to school and telling all his classmates that there's no santa, is them forcing their views on the majority.

osarusan

Swanner wrote: »

No. I used a swear word to describe the little **** who decides to tell my kids that Santa doesn't exist. He's not a little **** because he doesn't believe, he's a little **** for trying to spoil my daughters Christmas.

If your child meets the kids of the family down the road who don't make Santa part of their Christmas and says Santa does exist, is your child a little ****?

scdublin

What an absolute pr!ck. She would have known that the kid would tell other kids and it would ruin it for them.

iguana

Swanner wrote: »

I believe everyone has the right to celebrate Christmas anyway they see fit. They don't however have the right to push their agenda on others and yes, little johnny going to school and telling all his classmates that there's no santa, is them forcing their views on the majority.

And how is your little Mary going to school and insisting there is a Santa not forcing your views on the children who don't believe? Seriously, this would be hilarious if it wasn't kind of worrying. Not that the Santa thing is worrying but your (and some other posters here) lack of ability to look at it from the point of view of families who have other ways of doing things.

The Bishop Basher

osarusan wrote: »

If your child meets the kids of the family down the road who don't make Santa part of their Christmas and says Santa does exist, is your child a little ****?

Not the same thing for very obvious reasons...

osarusan

Swanner wrote: »

Not the same thing for very obvious reasons...

Explain these obvious reasons, can you please.

robindch

Suckler wrote: »

She didn't figure it out at age four. You told her because of your issues with religion.

As you appear to think that I'm a liar, I should explain that she figured out at age four when she asked me one morning, as we were driving through Dublin, if Santa was real because there were a couple of Santas out on the street who were different from each other and different from the Santa she'd just seen on some film. I asked he what she thought; she said "yes, I think he's just a story" and I said that I agreed with her, but went on to explain that it was a lovely story since it meant that there was another way that people could be nice to each other.

Suckler wrote: »

Forcing your child to mature is not her "being ahead of the curve in terms of maturity".

Not telling lies to my kid is "forcing my child to mature" - what in god's name are you talking about?

Are you suggesting that I should fill my child's head with bulls*it so that I can artificially keep her living in some kind of make-believe world filled with fairies so that I can go around the place thinking about how "magical" it all is?

What an idiotic and selfish point of view.

Weatherproof79 wrote: »

[...] you're instilling your judgemental snobbery. You care more about what others think of your child than her chance of a childhood you confirm that with the laughing behind her back comment. [...] The epitome of misery and snobbery

Swanner wrote: »

I sincerely hope that when she does mature, which will happen on her timescale, not yours, that she does think for herself and isn't tarnished by your views.

Well, as above, my "views" are that a kid's honest question deserves an honest answer and that's about the height of it.

And instead of replying one-by-one to all of the self-righteous fist- and pitchfork-waving, it's probably easiest to say that it's sad to see posters thinking it's ok to make a bunch of dumb personal comments about somebody whom nobody knows here.

And it's sadder still that what I've said has been twisted and misrepresented so that I don't recognize it myself - but hey, maybe it's ok to be dishonest. It makes things "magical" or something like that, doesn't it?

iguana

osarusan wrote: »

Explain these obvious reasons, can you please.

Because how Swanner wants to do it is the only way that matters and things that might be important to other families are actually just **** who are out to ruin things being done the right (his) way.

The Bishop Basher

iguana wrote: »

And how is your little Mary going to school and insisting there is a Santa not forcing your views on the children who don't believe? Seriously, this would be hilarious if it wasn't kind of worrying. Not that the Santa thing is worrying but your (and some other posters here) lack of ability to look at it from the point of view of families who have other ways of doing things.

She doesn't. And if she did i'd be sitting her down and having a word with her because that wouldn't be ok either.

robindch

robindch wrote: »

at age four when she asked me one morning, as we were driving through Dublin, if Santa was real because there were a couple of Santas out on the street who were different from each other and different from the Santa she'd just seen on some film.

You give the answer that any normal parent would and the answer I was given though I was a lot older than 4 when questioning it.

"They are santa's helpers as the real santa is busy in the north pole". Its disgusting that a parent would not keep the magic of christmas going for a little child, hard to imagine the all the brilliant and magical Christmases I would have missed out on without 100% believing in santa until I was about 11.

pickarooney

Why do you think that kids are more likely to believe one child who says Santy doesn't exist than everyone else who says he does?

Kids aren't stupid. They know full well from very early on that there's no Santy. They just fear that having to admit they know will mean them not getting presents.

Weatherproof79

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings Robert by pointing out you're a horrible person based on what you said about yourself and you're stereotyping comment concerning others. Little pity me post. I wouldn't want to be dishonest or lie to you x

c_man

I reckon half the folk here who are too cool for Santa, are merely adopting that attitude in the hopes of having some magical Christmas adventure where they either become/befriend/aid Santa and slowly but surely over the course of a few days become believers.

It's a crafty plan lads.

kunst nugget

Melany Orange Organ wrote: »

You give the answer that any normal parent would and the answer I was given though I was a lot older than 4 when questioning it.

"They are santa's helpers as the real santa is busy in the north pole". Its disgusting that a parent would not keep the magic of christmas going for a little child, hard to imagine the all the brilliant and magical Christmases I would have missed out on without 100% believing in santa until I was about 11.

If you doesn't want to do that, he doesn't have to. Calling it disgusting is absolutely ridiculous…

lameusername

c_man wrote: »

I reckon half the folk here who are too cool for Santa, are merely adopting that attitude in the hopes of having some magical Christmas adventure where they either become/befriend/aid Santa and slowly but surely over the course of a few days become believers.

It's a crafty plan lads.

nailed it

The Bishop Basher

iguana wrote: »

Because how Swanner wants to do it is the only way that matters and things that might be important to other families are actually just **** who are out to ruin things being done the right (his) way.

Look, you clearly feel comfortable formulating views on my behalf, stating those views on a public forum as mine and then badgering me for those same views that you announced on my behalf.

Have to be honest, I have come to expect a better standard of debate from most Mods on boards but I suppose there will always be exceptions.

On that note, I won't be replying to you again on this thread.

ScumLord

Melany Orange Organ wrote: »

"They are santa's helpers as the real santa is busy in the north pole". Its disgusting that a parent would not keep the magic of christmas going for a little child,

I think it's disgusting to force this santa idea onto people who don't want to lie to their children. It's the same as forcing people to believe in Jesus, just because you like the magic of the crucifixion.

Christmas magic is made up nonsense. If you want to live in that fantasy land that's fine, but you have no justification forcing it onto others, especially children, the only people who are gullible enough to believe it.

osarusan

Swanner wrote: »

On that note, I won't be replying to you again on this thread.

Could you reply to me?

How is it that if a child upset your kids at Christmas by saying Santa doesn't exist, that child is a little ****, but if your child upset another family's kids at Christmas by saying Santa does exist, she isn't a little ****?

You said they were very different for obvious reasons, but those reasons are not obvious to me.

Surely 'live and let live' applies equally to both sides.

Weatherproof79

ScumLord wrote: »

I think it's disgusting to force this santa idea onto people who don't want to lie to their children. It's the same as forcing people to believe in Jesus, just because you like the magic of the crucifixion.

Christmas magic is made up nonsense. If you want to live in that fantasy land that's fine, but you have no justification forcing it onto others, especially children, the only people who are gullible enough to believe it.

Aptly named

nozzferrahhtoo

Melany Orange Organ wrote: »

hard to imagine the all the brilliant and magical Christmases I would have missed out on without 100% believing in santa until I was about 11.

Sorry to hear that the only thing you enjoyed about your Xmas when growing up was the lie you were sold. I have sold no lies to my children and yet they do not appear to be "missing out" on anything.

I can tell you however that my own children, without the requirement for Santa or any other lies, have great and magical memories of Christmas and appear they will have many more to come.

Like another user or two, you appear to think the only way to enjoy magic and imagination.... is to believe falsehoods. My children have no such requirement and yet they have a very active, very stimulated, very interesting and well nurtured life replete with imagination and fantasy and fiction and play.

Yet they are wholly aware of the border between fantasy and reality and I have in no way compromised their gullibility or failed to nurture their ability to spot lies and frauds when they see them.

The Bishop Basher

osarusan wrote: »

Could you reply to me?

How is it that if a child upset your kids at Christmas by saying Santa doesn't exist, that child is a little ****, but if your child upset another family's kids at Christmas by saying Santa does exist, she isn't a little ****?

You said they were very different for obvious reasons, but those reasons are not obvious to me.

Surely 'live and let live' applies equally to both sides.

Sure.

For starters, if my child did that to another child I'd be having a long chat with her and explaining that it's perfectly ok for others not to believe but it's never ok to push our views on others.

Both mine are nearly grown up now so I don't have to deal with this issue but I believe they are of the same view so we clearly did something right.

When I say it's different I mean the outcome in that it's much easier to explain to a kid who doesn't believe that others do. The reverse situation, no matter how delicately handled, will erode a bit of the magic for that child and once it's gone it's not coming back.

W123-80's

Fluffy Cat 88 wrote: »

The parents in my workplace were having a wee chat today about one of their 6 year olds classmates in school. One child's Mammy decided not to live the Christmas lie and told her kid there's no such thing as the ould fat red-suited annual visitor.

So word spread amongst the little ones, tears, howling outrage etc (amongs the parent's that is). Got child-free me thinking, wondering if...

Is it fair to lie to kids? Is lying ever ok? Is it fair to tell them the truth? Did that parent ruin the "magic" of Christmas for all? Should "Santa" be a tradition, but the children would be told the truth - it's really the parents buying the surprise gifts?

Thoughts?

This may have already been asked, I haven't read the entire thread.

Do you know if the Mammy in question is in any ways religious?
I'm just interested to learn if she has banned all imaginary friends in her house or only the one that costs her money..:pac:

testaccount123

Melany Orange Organ wrote: »

Its disgusting that a parent would not keep the magic of christmas going for a little child, hard to imagine the all the brilliant and magical Christmases I would have missed out on without 100% believing in santa until I was about 11.

Oh come on, any kid who believes 100% that Santa Claus exists at 11 years old has learning difficulties

robindch

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

I can tell you however that my own children, without the requirement for Santa or any other lies, have great and magical memories of Christmas and appear they will have many more to come.

Like another user or two, you appear to think the only way to enjoy magic and imagination.... is to believe falsehoods. My children have no such requirement and yet they have a very active, very stimulated, very interesting and well nurtured life replete with imagination and fantasy and fiction and play.

Exactly the same for my kid - we make a distinction between what I suppose you could call story-world and real-world and she knows well enough where and how they can and do cross over and pollinate each other.

As above, I really don't see the need to be dishonest in order to make her feel something that other people might call "magical". On the contrary, she asks good questions and she gets good answers and she figures out the world at her pace and I don't tell her lies specifically to stop her developing - seems quite perverse to do so, quite frankly.

hairyslug

You can get a solid 2 months of good behaviour out of a kid with the threat of no Santa hanging over them, once you tell them, you lose the power

nozzferrahhtoo

hairyslug wrote: »

You can get a solid 2 months of good behaviour out of a kid with the threat of no Santa hanging over them, once you tell them, you lose the power

Thankfully there are methods of maintaining good behavior that require no lies, no loss of face or power, and work 12 months of the year

ScumLord

It wouldn't be too bad if people were following St. Nicks example. The truth should inspire people to be kinder but instead he's been hijacked to encourage self centred consumerism.

hairyslug

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Thankfully there are methods of maintaining good behavior that require no lies, no loss of face or power, and work 12 months of the year

Well aren't you just a bundle of fun

kunst nugget

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Thankfully there are methods of maintaining good behavior that require no lies, no loss of face or power, and work 12 months of the year

Claustrophobic spaces and belts. Work every time!

robindch

hairyslug wrote: »

You can get a solid 2 months of good behaviour out of a kid with the threat of no Santa hanging over them, once you tell them, you lose the power

Good lord - telling porky pies in order to play power politics with a child - does this really add to the "magic" of christmas as well?

What an strange and unhappy world we're opening up here :rolleyes:

testaccount123

robindch wrote: »

Good lord - telling porky pies in order to play power politics with a child - does this really add to the "magic" of christmas as well?

What an strange and unhappy world we're opening up here :rolleyes:

I think he may have been joking

Fluffy Cat 88

W123-80's wrote: »

This may have already been asked, I haven't read the entire thread.

Do you know if the Mammy in question is in any ways religious?
I'm just interested to learn if she has banned all imaginary friends in her house or only the one that costs her money..:pac:

I have no idea. I don't know the person tbh. I started this thread because some parents in work were discussing a school calamity - a six year old whose mam said there is no such thing as Santa, and told the other 6 year olds in the class.

Alf Veedersane

Santa = dishonesty.

Got it.

I'm off to burn the copies of Peppa the talking pig lest the little one thinks it's real. I'll tell her it's some made up bullsh*t just to be sure to be sure

ScumLord

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Santa = dishonesty.

Got it.

I'm off to burn the copies of Peppa the talking pig lest the little one thinks it's real. I'll tell her it's some made up bullsh*t just to be sure to be sure

You don't have to go that far. Just don't tell the kid Peppa Pig is spying on them all the time and start leaving false evidence around the place to further deceive your child.

Kids know the drawing in their book isn't real, they would probably cop on to Santa quicker if we weren't creating false evidence. All of society conspiring to deceive on a grand scale, what chance has a kid in seeing through that?

Caoimhgh1n

I don't think parents should be telling young children that Saintí isn't real. I was a big believer in Saintí as a young child and it never did me any harm.

looksee

Swanner wrote: »

In the same way as Atheists feel superior over theists until they actually learn a bit about theology or grow up.

Micky Dolenz

Every time this thread title pops up on my home page, a little bit of my Christmas spirit is sucked away.

namloc1980

ScumLord wrote: »

You don't have to go that far. Just don't tell the kid Peppa Pig is spying on them all the time and start leaving false evidence around the place to further deceive your child.

Kids know the drawing in their book isn't real, they would probably cop on to Santa quicker if we weren't creating false evidence. All of society conspiring to deceive on a grand scale, what chance has a kid in seeing through that?

Why get so worked up by it? The magic of Christmas is real for kids despite the anti Santa crowd trying to allude otherwise. They only believe in it for a few short years and after that they will have enough of the reality of it and the realities of life for the rest of their lives. People making out that indulging Santa is some sort of great evil conspiracy is sad and laughable at the same time.

Tarzana2

Melany Orange Organ wrote: »

Nobody believed her kids anyway thankfully when they said Santa was a lie and they were shunned by everyone thanks to their mother.

Charming. What lovely people you all sound like. Pro tip: it's never anyone else's fault if you decide to act like a bullying shít.

Also, 11? Christ on a bike. I turned 12 the March before I entered secondary school. Still believing in Santa less than a year before starting secondary school? Errr... no.

Alf Veedersane

ScumLord wrote: »

You don't have to go that far. Just don't tell the kid Peppa Pig is spying on them all the time and start leaving false evidence around the place to further deceive your child.

Kids know the drawing in their book isn't real, they would probably cop on to Santa quicker if we weren't creating false evidence. All of society conspiring to deceive on a grand scale, what chance has a kid in seeing through that?

I was never told anyone was spying on me on Santa's behalf and evidence wasn't left anywhere.

Talk of conspiring etc is taking the whole thing a bit too far.

As is the 'disgusting' nonsense at the other end of the spectrum

ScumLord

namloc1980 wrote: »

Why get so worked up by it? The magic of Christmas is real for kids despite the anti Santa crowd trying to allude otherwise. They only believe in it for a few short years and after that they will have enough of the reality of it and the realities of life for the rest of their lives. People making out that indulging Santa is some sort of great evil conspiracy is sad and laughable at the same time.

I'm not really worked up about it.

But people have to release, this is a personal belief. There's no requirement for other people to go along with this fantasy, especially when we all know it's a fantasy, one that's barely even related to it's original intention and purpose. One that's clearly corrupted and probably doing as much harm (we promote a pretty self centred view of Christmas for kids) as good as far as I'm concerned.


I don't accept that just because things are done a certain way for a long time means that they're done right.

namloc1980

robindch wrote: »

Exactly the same for my kid - we make a distinction between what I suppose you could call story-world and real-world and she knows well enough where and how they can and do cross over and pollinate each other.

As above, I really don't see the need to be dishonest in order to make her feel something that other people might call "magical". On the contrary, she asks good questions and she gets good answers and she figures out the world at her pace and I don't tell her lies specifically to stop her developing - seems quite perverse to do so, quite frankly.

Please tell us how Santa prevents children "developing"? And how is it perverse?

ScumLord

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I was never told anyone was spying on me on Santa's behalf and evidence wasn't left anywhere.

No, never told if your not good that santa will leave you a piece of coal? Never heard of the naughty and nice list?

Your parents never left carrots out for rudolph?

wexandproud

robindch wrote: »

I don't see anything "magic" about filling my kid's head with Santa-related stories, especially since she figured out that it was an adult conjob when she was, AFAIR, four. I can make her smile by telling her lots of other false stories too - she's a kid - why would I abuse her trust?

Yes, it's lovely to see her smile and grin and giggle and be happy over the moon when she knows she's going to get a present - and we put one from Santa beneath the tree - but she knows quite well it's from her parents. And now at the age of nine, she's embarrassed for her classmates (all of them religious) who still believe in Santa. As a parent, I'd like her to be a little ahead of the curve in terms of maturity and knowing what's what, instead of being one of the kids that's being laughed at her behind their backs because they still believe in Santa, the tooth fairy or any other pious myth.

lets see how far ahead of the curve you want her to be when she throws a hissy fit and she's all dressed up 13 or 14 wanting money to go out clubbing.
i cant believe people on here wanting to take away some of the best memories a kid could have
last year my eldest discovered santa was not real , it ruined his christmas and his wife was a bit pissed of then aswell

Alf Veedersane

ScumLord wrote: »

No, never told if your not good that santa will leave you a piece of coal? Never heard of the naughty and nice list?

Your parents never left carrots out for rudolph?

Honestly, no.

The naughty /nice thing meant nothing more to me than as a line in a song

valoren

Children when at that impressionable age (4,5,6,7) have very active imaginations.
Parents recognise this.

For example, all kids have heroes.
Your son won't eat his veggies. "I bet Cristiano Ronaldo eats ALL his veggies".
Or your daughter has a tantrum "Princess Elsa wouldn't act like that!".

The Santa character falls under the same bracket. He is a great tool for enabling good behaviour.

The naughty or nice list, the coal in the christmas sock is merely part of this.
To suggest this is manipulating children through deceit is quite the stretch.
What parent would actually leave coal in a child's sock ffs?.

Some may have the viewpoint that Christmas is too commercial, a behemoth of consumerism, and that enabling the idea of Santa is manipulation, deception and outright lies. So considering this you explain to your 5 year old that there is no jolly fat man in a red suit, who lives in the North pole and gives presents to nice kids. To those I would say, does a 5 year old know what Consumerism is?

Simply indulge their imaginations and recognise that 'Santa' is on your side

ScumLord

valoren wrote: »

Simply indulge their imaginations and recognise that 'Santa' is on your side

I still think the original St. Nick is a better example, they should want to be santa clause, not the poor kids with nothing that St Nick tried to help.

I just don't see anything beneficial from the santa myth.

LordSutch

lolokeogh wrote: »

lol..true..i never knew so many catholic kids would be effected by the santy "lie" although i have never met one in all me travels,infact everyone who had the privilage to go through the santy years and reaching its conclusion say it was among the best times of there lifes..bbut ive also spoken to the ones who were told at 6 by there parents.there the ones with a bit of an issue.let your kids be kids,enough on this debate,

MERRY CHRISTMAS santy lovers..to the rest..mery xmas

If there's one thing that really annoys me its people saying 'Santy' or actually going to the trouble of misprinting Santa with a y at the end. Santa is short for Santa Claus, there is no such spelling as Santy (or Santee) as some people spell it.

For children of all ages, Santa/Father Christmas is a magical and wonderful addition to the magic of Christmas. As a Dad I couldn't imagine destroying that magic, or allowing some six year old kid in school to destroy it (with his parents consent).

Bulbous Salutation

NOW, what I want is, Facts. Teach these boys and girls nothing but Facts. Facts alone are wanted in life. Plant nothing else, and root out everything else. You can only form the minds of reasoning animals upon Facts: nothing else will ever be of any service to them. This is the principle on which I bring up my own children, and this is the principle on which I bring up these children. Stick to Facts, Sir!'

Mrs cockett

Bulbous Salutation wrote: »

NOW, what I want is, Facts. Teach these boys and girls nothing but Facts. Facts alone are wanted in life. Plant nothing else, and root out everything else. You can only form the minds of reasoning animals upon Facts: nothing else will ever be of any service to them. This is the principle on which I bring up my own children, and this is the principle on which I bring up these children. Stick to Facts, Sir!'

Santa is a fact , in my book