There's no such thing as Santa Claus!!!

kunst nugget

Bulbous Salutation wrote: »

NOW, what I want is, Facts. Teach these boys and girls nothing but Facts. Facts alone are wanted in life. Plant nothing else, and root out everything else. You can only form the minds of reasoning animals upon Facts: nothing else will ever be of any service to them. This is the principle on which I bring up my own children, and this is the principle on which I bring up these children. Stick to Facts, Sir!'

Hard Times by Charles Dickens. The worst fúcking book to have to do for your leaving cert. I despised that piece of shít more than anything else in the world…

ScumLord

LordSutch wrote: »

For children of all ages, Santa/Father Christmas is a magical and wonderful addition to the magic of Christmas. As a Dad I couldn't imagine destroying that magic, or allowing some six year old kid in school to destroy it (with his parents consent).

There's no such thing as magic either. I also don't think Christmas would be ruined for kids if santa wasn't a part of it. There's still the lights, the food, the weather, family meetings, there's more to this time of year than the santa myth, it's not even a core part of the holiday. It's a recent tack on.

wexandproud

ScumLord wrote: »

There's no such thing as magic either. I also don't think Christmas would be ruined for kids if santa wasn't a part of it. There's still the lights, the food, the weather, family meetings, there's more to this time of year than the santa myth, it's not even a core part of the holiday. It's a recent tack on.

this is good from a person who is a mod in zombie survival

kunst nugget

ScumLord wrote: »

There's no such thing as magic either. I also don't think Christmas would be ruined for kids if santa wasn't a part of it. There's still the lights, the food, the weather, family meetings, there's more to this time of year than the santa myth, it's not even a core part of the holiday. It's a recent tack on.

There's no such thing as zombies either but it doesn't mean you can't have fun imaging the best ways to survive an outbreak…

Like I said earlier, Christmas can be whatever you want it to be. If Santa is the main thing for someone, what's the problem.

This thread has kind of become a willy measuring competition about who feels more smug and morally superior.

Just enjoy Christmas whatever way you want, the lot of you and stop moaning about what other people choose to do/not do…

ScumLord

wexandproud wrote: »

this is good from a person who is a mod in zombie survival

Is that supposed to be an insult? Admission I'm right? I'm not following you here.

ScumLord

kunst nugget wrote: »

Like I said earlier, Christmas can be whatever you want it to be. If Santa is the main thing for someone, what's the problem.

That's fine. I've no problem with that. But people here are on about demonising someone who doesn't want to perpetuate the santa myth with their own kids. If your family does santa, fine. But if others don't there's no need to bring out the pitchforks, it's your fantasy, I and others have no obligation to maintain it.

wexandproud

ScumLord wrote: »

Is that supposed to be an insult? Admission I'm right? I'm not following you here.

not an insult anyway but also not an admission your right .
kids have fun and are excited by the thoughts of santa and you think christmas would not be spoiled for them without santa .
i think you get enjoyment out of talking or reading about zombies , so why cant kids be the same about santa

kunst nugget

ScumLord wrote: »

That's fine. I've no problem with that. But people here are on about demonising someone who doesn't want to perpetuate the santa myth with their own kids. If your family does santa, fine. But if others don't there's no need to bring out the pitchforks, it's your fantasy, I and others have no obligation to maintain it.

We do Santa (in the non sexual manner) in our house. It's great craic and we as parents enjoy it as much as the kids. If someone's not into it that's their choice and they'll have plenty of other ways that they'll make things special for their children as they grow. Honestly, I do find the demonising of people on here pretty incredible - it baffles me why people feel the need to get so heated about something like that. Your kid gets told Santa doesn't exist? Roll with the punches and make an excuse for it or tell the truth if they're old enough - don't hope to run someone out of a village over it ffs. That said I find the condescending nature of some of the non-Santa posters irritating as well.

looksee

I find it hard to believe how people are getting so uptight about Santa! Really, if you want your children to enjoy the Santa story, fine, and if you don't, equally fine.

If a child comes into school and says there is no Santa, don't panic, either your child will believe them or they will not. You don't have to tell lies and if the child is asking for a clear cut answer you can say something along the line of 'its a nice story, you have to decide yourself whether you want to believe it or not'.

I don't think we ever told any outright lies about Santa, but we still had little believers until 7 or 8. I couldn't really say when individual children stopped believing, it was just understood that you didn't spoil it for younger children. I can remember as a child that I both believed in, and did not believe in fairies, and even though we put out the drink and mince pie for Santa I don't recall that I ever thought of it as anything other than a nice, imaginative thing to do - I believed and didn't believe simultaneously.

Do you make a point of saying that stories are lies? Are children not allowed to write fantasy stories? How many children grow up saying they want to be a ballet dancer or an astranaut? How many kids have 'fairy doors' that they are firmly convinced fairies live behind? It isn't going to warp their minds or their understanding of how the world works.

ScumLord

wexandproud wrote: »

i think you get enjoyment out of talking or reading about zombies , so why cant kids be the same about santa

It's not really the same thing. SAnta isn't the same as spiderman. Kids know spider man isn't real, we don't try and convince them that spider man is real. Kids get caught up in the fantasy and it's borderline real for them but at the end of the day they know it's a story, some guy wrote it and it's not real.

That's not what we do with santa. We tell them he's definitely real, he's watching everything they do (like a back up Jesus), we do things like sending letters, leaving out food, it's a pretty elaborate deception in all fairness. We're not really giving them a chance to make their own mind up about it.

I wonder what it does to a westerners mind to find out that society as a whole was conspiring against you. I know we generally accept it and move on but look how distrusting people are of authority today? Look how likely we are to see conspiracies all over the place. It could be that the santa myth is doing us no favours as a society. But we're all so invested in it we don't want to look at it critically.

looksee

I wonder what it does to a westerners mind to find out that society as a whole was conspiring against you. I know we generally accept it and move on but look how distrusting people are of authority today? Look how likely we are to see conspiracies all over the place. It could be that the santa myth is doing us no favours as a society. But we're all so invested in it we don't want to look at it critically.

Have you considered that you might be over-thinking this?

Rezident

Fluffy Cat 88 wrote: »

The parents in my workplace were having a wee chat today about one of their 6 year olds classmates in school. One child's Mammy decided not to live the Christmas lie and told her kid there's no such thing as the ould fat red-suited annual visitor.

So word spread amongst the little ones, tears, howling outrage etc (amongs the parent's that is). Got child-free me thinking, wondering if...

Is it fair to lie to kids? Is lying ever ok? Is it fair to tell them the truth? Did that parent ruin the "magic" of Christmas for all? Should "Santa" be a tradition, but the children would be told the truth - it's really the parents buying the surprise gifts?

Thoughts?

'Artists use lies to tell the truth...'

The Randy Riverbeast

Melany Orange Organ wrote: »

You give the answer that any normal parent would and the answer I was given though I was a lot older than 4 when questioning it.

"They are santa's helpers as the real santa is busy in the north pole". Its disgusting that a parent would not keep the magic of christmas going for a little child, hard to imagine the all the brilliant and magical Christmases I would have missed out on without 100% believing in santa until I was about 11.

"normal parent"? really?

People here are making a SSM or abortion thread look tame.

Swanner wrote: »

Interesting perspective....

I suppose in this part of the world we do have Santa so we look to protect the tradition. The problem is that it only really works when everyone else is on board. They don't have to believe but equally they shouldn't ruin it for those who do....

It only takes one child in a class to spoil it for the other 30 kids and anecdotally this seems to be becoming more and more common. So should we ignore that and just let the tradition die or should we protect it and pass it on to future generations.

I'm with option 2 :-)



They shouldn't have to hear he isn't real at such a young. That's the whole point...

But judging by the tone of the posts of those that don't do Santa with their children, they seem to believe they're somehow superior for adopting that position. In the same way as Atheists feel superior over theists until they actually learn a bit about theology or grow up. It would be reasonable to assume that this superiority complex is passed onto their children and of course they're all within their rights up to this point...

But when that jumped up little **** decides to lord it over his classmates in school and tell my kid that Santa doesn't exist, it becomes my problem and i would be well within my rights to feel that i'm having somebody else's parenting views forced on me and my family.

So where does that leave live and let live ?

Well as long as you feel superior to them then its fine.

ScumLord

looksee wrote: »

Have you considered that you might be over-thinking this?

It's an easy thought to have, it took no more effort than a stroke of my thin, so no, I don't think I'm overthinking it. It's not like this keeps me awake at night. Is this not the point of public discussion? To discuss the possibilities? Or are we back to the notion of just follow the herd?

wexandproud

ScumLord wrote: »

It's not really the same thing. SAnta isn't the same as spiderman. Kids know spider man isn't real, we don't try and convince them that spider man is real. Kids get caught up in the fantasy and it's borderline real for them but at the end of the day they know it's a story, some guy wrote it and it's not real.

That's not what we do with santa. We tell them he's definitely real, he's watching everything they do (like a back up Jesus), we do things like sending letters, leaving out food, it's a pretty elaborate deception in all fairness. We're not really giving them a chance to make their own mind up about it.

I wonder what it does to a westerners mind to find out that society as a whole was conspiring against you. I know we generally accept it and move on but look how distrusting people are of authority today? Look how likely we are to see conspiracies all over the place. It could be that the santa myth is doing us no favours as a society. But we're all so invested in it we don't want to look at it critically.

no kid of an age who believes in santa knows what westerner or conspiracy is and as another poster said your thoughts on santa are on a whole different level

Shenshen

ScumLord wrote: »

I wonder what it does to a westerners mind to find out that society as a whole was conspiring against you. I know we generally accept it and move on but look how distrusting people are of authority today? Look how likely we are to see conspiracies all over the place. It could be that the santa myth is doing us no favours as a society. But we're all so invested in it we don't want to look at it critically.

It should be easy enough to verify if you wanted to. I'm sure there's some numbers out there about the prevalence in belief in conspiracy theories, alien abductions, mistrust of authority etc split out by country.
Then all you'd need to do is compare the countries that have the idea of Santa Claus - the US, Canada, Britain and Ireland (not sure about Australia?) and compare them to the countries that don't have Santa - more or less the rest of Europe and most of the rest of the world.

I've got a suspicion of how those figures will read

SMJSF

I was only having this exact conversation with a friend today.
If I was to (which I don't want to) have kids, I would tell them that some people think that there is someone called Santa, and some people don't, but you can't tell people who think there is one, that there isn't (in school or whatever).
I would say that the presents are from (the parents), not santa.
Sure this whole "santa" business gives the illusion that "he" is a miracle worker and can get exactly what the kid wants (be it an Xbox or PS, etc) and sometimes, it's just not possible to get the popular toy of the year. end of!

I can't lie in everyday life. so why do it to a child, and "ruin it" for them years later? And the same with the tooth fairy and all that crap!

Dirty Dingus McGee

osarusan wrote: »

The corollary is that it works the other way round too - those kids talking about all the wonderful stuff they got from Santa could upset that family who don't practice that.

This is why I said that 'live and let live' needs to work both ways, and why you're wrong to say that there is no negative consequence (to kids of other families) of a family making Santa part of their Christmas.

Not really.

They made a decision to opt out of the tradition so they have to suffer for it themselves.

Just because they don't want to enjoy it doesn't means others shouldn't. There is nothing positive about spoiling the Santa story for anyone else so people shouldn't do it.

namloc1980

ScumLord wrote: »

There's no such thing as magic either. I also don't think Christmas would be ruined for kids if santa wasn't a part of it. There's still the lights, the food, the weather, family meetings, there's more to this time of year than the santa myth, it's not even a core part of the holiday. It's a recent tack on.

How recent is recent? Father Christmas has been around in Ireland and the UK since the 16th Century and the main tradition of him bringing gifts to children dates to the 1840s at least. Anyone who thinks it's all a very recent development should read the "Father Christmas Letters" by JRR Tolkien (yes he of the Lord of the Rings).

He wrote letters to his children as if from the Big Man himself starting in 1920. They are beautiful letters and have all the elements that we know today: big fat man in a red suit, living at the North Pole, flying around with reindeer, with elves making toys in the workshop etc.

I suspect the anti Santa advocates would dismiss these letters as massive lies and that Tolkien was conspiring to deliberately mislead his children. As opposed to a loving father bringing a little magic into his children's lives.

Electric Sheep

Melany Orange Organ wrote: »

There was thundering b*tch like that that moved into the area with her family when I was in primary school. Always causing hassle in the school, fighting with other parents, anti-religion and roaring at parents calling them liers for doing Santa with their kids. She was one awful c*nt. Nobody believed her kids anyway thankfully when they said Santa was a lie and they were shunned by everyone thanks to their mother.

They didn't last long in the area anyway, it was clear to them they weren't wanted around the place after a fairly short time.

Anyone not giving their child the magic of Santa is a rotten and disgusting parent and even worse having their kids ruining it on others. Hope the person in question in the op is ran out of the area fairly sharpish.

And all those billions of people who don't celebrate Christmas are going straight to hell for not being Christians, and should be run out of the world for not giving their kids the magic of Christmas. :rolleyes:

Electric Sheep

For those who teach their kids that Santa is real, and also teach them that Jesus Christ and God are real - do you ever worry that when your kids find out you were lying about Santa, they will also decide you were lying about God and stop believing in Him too?

TheChizler

Just noticed something that I don't normally pay attention to, but Fluffy Cat, have you thanked EVERY post? That's determination!

trixychic

Electric Sheep wrote: »

For those who teach their kids that Santa is real, and also teach them that Jesus Christ and God are real - do you ever worry that when your kids find out you were lying about Santa, they will also decide you were lying about God and stop believing in Him too?

I have no problem with them losing belief. I feel the only reason I brought them into cathocism was because it's hard to go places in ireland when you are not.

I believe that when they grow up (and can understand things properly) they will choose the paths they think is right for them.

Fluffy Cat 88

TheChizler wrote: »

Just noticed something that I don't normally pay attention to, but Fluffy Cat, have you thanked EVERY post? That's determination!

Yes I have, as I have read them all and enjoyed both sides of the debate.

I'm impartial as I'm child-free myself. Many passionate posts on here though!

TheChizler

Fluffy Cat 88 wrote: »

Yes I have, as I have read them all and enjoyed both sides of the debate.

I'm impartial as I'm child-free myself. Many passionate posts on here though!

If I could thank a thank I would.

trixychic

Into The Blue wrote: »

The opening post.

I think it's clear from how many posts there is that this post is genuine.

Fluffy Cat 88

TheChizler wrote: »

If I could thank a thank I would.

Thanks

The Rape of Lucretia

Half of a kid's life is imaginary.

Father Christmas is only a tiny element of the stories, fantasies, books, games they invent themselves, other games adults play with them, talking animals, cartoons, etc, etc, etc, that is part of childhood development.

Doesnt **** them up. It part of growing up, to leave these things behind. Crushing these games too young does **** up their development, and joy of being alive.

Stop this anti-Father Christmas nonsense NOW !


(Elf on the shelf - now there's a Christmas tradition).

wadk

Some sad cnuts on this site!!!

ScumLord

ScumLord wrote: »

There's no such thing as magic either. I also don't think Christmas would be ruined for kids if santa wasn't a part of it. There's still the lights, the food, the weather, family meetings, there's more to this time of year than the santa myth, it's not even a core part of the holiday. It's a recent tack on.

There is absolutely no doubt that Christmas wouldn't have been even close to what it was without Santa for me. I still love Christmas, it's my favourite time of year but the minute I found out about Santa it was never the same. Looking back all the brilliant memories of Christmas are Santa related, thinking we spotted him, watching out the window and things anything that moved in the sky was him etc etc etc. Never mind all the great presents etc he would bring.

I feel very sorry for any child that is denied Santa. I'm lucky that going to a small country school where all the parents worked hard to keep all the children believing meant we got up until 10 or 11 out of Santa, it's a much shorter time for kids now never mind if they have pig headed parents who tell them ahead of time.

Electric Sheep wrote: »

For those who teach their kids that Santa is real, and also teach them that Jesus Christ and God are real - do you ever worry that when your kids find out you were lying about Santa, they will also decide you were lying about God and stop believing in Him too?

Why on earth would a child think God wasn't real just because they had Santa, never even associated the two never mind questioned God just because there was no Santa.

Hammer89

Fluffy Cat 88 wrote: »

The parents in my workplace were having a wee chat today about one of their 6 year olds classmates in school. One child's Mammy decided not to live the Christmas lie and told her kid there's no such thing as the ould fat red-suited annual visitor.

I can assure you that Wayne Rooney is very real.

IvaBigWun

LexieOnRale wrote: »

So because I'm a woman I'm supposed to melt at the sight of them? Mm no.
I take no notice of happy good well behaved kids. I'm skeptical of how long it'll last for if I'm in a confined space for a period of time but apart from that, meh - they're just there. Wouldn't be falling over myself to be in their company.

Bold kids? The jury is still out on whether it's the kids that insufferable arseholes or if it's the parents. The lazy parents who brush off their children's lack of manners as "kids will be kids". I don't find anyone's bad behaviour cute or endearing. My gender is completely irrelevant.

As I said - for you to dislike all kids strikes me as more of a problem you have with yourself rather then them. It isnt right to dislike kids who are well behaved and cheery.

And as for your last line which I highlighted, are you serious? Do you know anything about why a woman gravitates towards kids more then men do? It is there in their primal, natural urges to do so.

But obviously you are lacking in that very basic female quality.



Banned

The Randy Riverbeast

Melany Orange Organ wrote: »

Why on earth would a child think God wasn't real just because they had Santa, never even associated the two never mind questioned God just because there was no Santa.

The child might be told Christmas some something to do with god from some disgusting pigheaded (I think they're the words you were using) teacher or priest who tries to tell the children that Santa isn't the most important thing about the day.

Jaxxy

IvaBigWun wrote: »

As I said - for you to dislike all kids strikes me as more of a problem you have with yourself rather then them. It isnt right to dislike kids who are well behaved and cheery.

And as for your last line which I highlighted, are you serious? Do you know anything about why a woman gravitates towards kids more then men do? It is there in their primal, natural urges to do so.

But obviously you are lacking in that very basic female quality.

To suggest that a woman is lacking in a 'very basic female quality' just because she doesn't like/want children, or doesn't 'naturally gravitate' toward them is not just offensive, but ridiculous. What rubbish.

We are not all the sum of our stereotypical, hormonal parts, you know.

A woman is no less if she chooses not to have children. A man is no less if he chooses not to have children.

Smidge

pickarooney wrote: »

Why do you think that kids are more likely to believe one child who says Santy doesn't exist than everyone else who says he does?

Kids aren't stupid. They know full well from very early on that there's no Santy. They just fear that having to admit they know will mean them not getting presents.

That's absolutely untrue.
My youngest is 9 and is expecting Santa to visit this Xmas!

Smidge

IvaBigWun wrote: »

As I said - for you to dislike all kids strikes me as more of a problem you have with yourself rather then them. It isnt right to dislike kids who are well behaved and cheery.

And as for your last line which I highlighted, are you serious? Do you know anything about why a woman gravitates towards kids more then men do? It is there in their primal, natural urges to do so.

But obviously you are lacking in that very basic female quality.

Tbf Iva, I have disagreed on many occasions with the "anti kids" posters on threads before (a fair few are here no longer )
But lexies view is her view. Me and lexie dont agree on kids, but this seems a bit of a personal attack on her. I have read horrid posts from the "anti kids" brigade (a lot of them women)but I have to say, with respect, with the above post you may be taking it a bit far with regards to Lexie.

Although, knowing Lexie, she doesnt need me to speak for her(which I by no means intended to do) :pac:

Sunflower 27

stimpson wrote: »

You need to up the ante. Tell your kids there's no god. See how the bitch likes that.

Why would she care about that? Lol

Bit pointless getting upset about something you have no control over. The outrage of some people on here is ridiculous.

Like kids don't question it amongst themselves anyway. Get real.

Smidge

Santa is magical.
You only get a handful of years with it. Once the children know, well, it really is just about "getting stuff" for xmas.

I have to say, the people who I have known who told their children that Santa wasnt real were either....
"Right on" types.
Hipsters trying to be edgy.
Thought that their children were by far intellectually superior(they weren't, just brats with a big gob spouting things "Mommy and Pops" chatted about over lattes)
Penny pinchers(didn't like the idea of spending on their kids, less nice things for them. This goes for the ones booking skiing trips to the ones buying an extra slab of beers)
Cruel parents(this REALLY does exist sadly)
My kids aren't spoiled(dont believe in getting everything you want, one pressie asked for and surprise).
Only have one for Santa though and reckon this will be their last year.
Dreading it.

Christmas is about children and family and for me, children are central to the family unit.
Give them as much magic as you can. While you can

XR3i

fucck xmas and santa, fucckin load a ****e,

Gaygooner

Bet the bitch just didn't want to pay 70c for the stamp...

Sunflower 27

Smidge wrote: »

Santa is magical.
You only get a handful of years with it. Once the children know, well, it really is just about "getting stuff" for xmas.

I have to say, the people who I have known who told their children that Santa wasnt real were either....
"Right on" types.
Hipsters trying to be edgy.
Thought that their children were by far intellectually superior(they weren't, just brats with a big gob spouting things "Mommy and Pops" chatted about over lattes)
Penny pinchers(didn't like the idea of spending on their kids, less nice things for them. This goes for the ones booking skiing trips to the ones buying an extra slab of beers)
Cruel parents(this REALLY does exist sadly)
My kids aren't spoiled(dont believe in getting everything you want, one pressie asked for and surprise).
Only have one for Santa though and reckon this will be their last year.
Dreading it.

Christmas is about children and family and for me, children are central to the family unit.
Give them as much magic as you can. While you can

Christmas is about everyone. It isn't about a fictional character flying around giving out presents. Although I suppose that is how most children see it now days.

It was a lot different when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s. Parents had a lot more cop on back then. They bought what they could afford, not like today, the stories about parents turning to loan sharks to buy their kids what they think they should is very sad.

A sign of the times, I suppose. The real meaning of Christmas was lost a long time ago. It is so commercial now and about buying gifts. Keeps retailers happy though

namloc1980

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Christmas is about everyone. It isn't about a fictional character flying around giving out presents. Although I suppose that is how most children see it now days.

It was a lot different when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s. Parents had a lot more cop on back then. They bought what they could afford, not like today, the stories about parents turning to loan sharks to buy their kids what they think they should is very sad.

A sign of the times, I suppose. The real meaning of Christmas was lost a long time ago. It is so commercial now and about buying gifts. Keeps retailers happy though

My brothers and I had full on Santa growing up in the 70s & 80s and so did all the kids around us. This revisionism of "it wasn't like that in my day" really is a cliché at this stage.

Alf Veedersane

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Christmas is about everyone. It isn't about a fictional character flying around giving out presents. Although I suppose that is how most children see it now days.

It was a lot different when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s. Parents had a lot more cop on back then. They bought what they could afford, not like today, the stories about parents turning to loan sharks to buy their kids what they think they should is very sad.

A sign of the times, I suppose. The real meaning of Christmas was lost a long time ago. It is so commercial now and about buying gifts. Keeps retailers happy though

It's not about Santa either.

Santa is just an element of it for many kids. It ads a frisson of magic for kids who believe in Santa.

No more, no less.

If you don't believe etc that's fine too. A good parent/parents will still have a special Christmas with their kids without Santa.

There are two extremes here though that are a little odd. There are plenty of people who can have a Santa-free Christmas and still have a special time.

There are also kids who still believe in Santa and whose parents play along with it because it adds an element of magic for their kids. That doesn't mean they are being dishonest or perpetuating some huge lie. It's mostly harmless.

As for kids who no longer believe telling other kids that Santa doesn't exist: it happens. It happened when I still believed. To be honest, I shrugged it off. The first time it happened, it came from the mouth of a boorish príck so it was easy to brush off

Sunflower 27

namloc1980 wrote: »

My brothers and I had full on Santa growing up in the 70s & 80s and so did all the kids around us. This revisionism of "it wasn't like that in my day" really is a cliché at this stage.

It isnt a cliché if I lived it. It was reality. Yes we did have Santa, but Christmas was not as commercialised as it is now. Parents didn't bankrupt themselves either. It was more about family, family values, friendship and all those other lovely sentiments.

Call it a cliché all you like, no harm to me, but anyone that doesn't think Christmas has changed from years ago is deluding themselves in my opinion.

Sunflower 27

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It's not about Santa either.

Santa is just an element of it for many kids. It ads a frisson of magic for kids who believe in Santa.

No more, no less.

If you don't believe etc that's fine too. A good parent/parents will still have a special Christmas with their kids without Santa.

There are two extremes here though that are a little odd. There are plenty of people who can have a Santa-free Christmas and still have a special time.

There are also kids who still believe in Santa and whose parents play along with it because it adds an element of magic for their kids. That doesn't mean they are being dishonest or perpetuating some huge lie. It's mostly harmless.

As for kids who no longer believe telling other kids that Santa doesn't exist: it happens. It happened when I still believed. To be honest, I shrugged it off. The first time it happened, it came from the mouth of a boorish príck so it was easy to brush off

Let me be very clear, I am not saying Christmas is about Santa.

I think most savvy children can type is Santa real? Into the internet if they wanted to.

For every kid that says he isn't real, three kids will say he is (clearly not fact)

Alf Veedersane

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Let me be very clear, I am not saying Christmas is about Santa.

I think most savvy children can type is Santa real? Into the internet if they wanted to.

For every kid that says he isn't real, three kids will say he is (clearly not fact)

I wasn't directing it at you, per se. There are some who have suggested that there is something wrong if Santa makes Christmas or that it's about him. It isn't.

It just adds an element of magic for young kids (< 8) who believe. I don't really see anything wrong with that.

osarusan

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It's not about Santa either.

Santa is just an element of it for many kids. It ads a frisson of magic for kids who believe in Santa.

No more, no less.

If you don't believe etc that's fine too. A good parent/parents will still have a special Christmas with their kids without Santa.

There are two extremes here though that are a little odd. There are plenty of people who can have a Santa-free Christmas and still have a special time.

There are also kids who still believe in Santa and whose parents play along with it because it adds an element of magic for their kids. That doesn't mean they are being dishonest or perpetuating some huge lie. It's mostly harmless.

As for kids who no longer believe telling other kids that Santa doesn't exist: it happens. It happened when I still believed. To be honest, I shrugged it off. The first time it happened, it came from the mouth of a boorish príck so it was easy to brush off

Yeah, this is pretty much what I think too.

No need for extremes about being a bad, deceitful parent filling the kids' heads with damaging lies, and no need for the extremes about being a disgusting parent destroying Christmas - it's not like these parents are burning presents in front of their kids.

namloc1980

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

It isnt a cliché if I lived it. It was reality. Yes we did have Santa, but Christmas was not as commercialised as it is now. Parents didn't bankrupt themselves either. It was more about family, family values, friendship and all those other lovely sentiments.

Call it a cliché all you like, no harm to me, but anyone that doesn't think Christmas has changed from years ago is deluding themselves in my opinion.

If you believe that people are going bankrupt over Christmas then you don't have a grip on reality. Christmas for us is all about family and all that good stuff with Santa in there as well. I can't imagine we're the only ones.

Azalea

Smidge wrote: »

Tbf Iva, I have disagreed on many occasions with the "anti kids" posters on threads before (a fair few are here no longer )
But lexies view is her view. Me and lexie dont agree on kids, but this seems a bit of a personal attack on her. I have read horrid posts from the "anti kids" brigade (a lot of them women)but I have to say, with respect, with the above post you may be taking it a bit far with regards to Lexie.

Although, knowing Lexie, she doesnt need me to speak for her(which I by no means intended to do) :pac:

Agreed hugely. I'll admit, I don't understand people not liking kids but that post is just nasty. "Lacking a basic female quality" - wtf?

Azalea

kunst nugget wrote: »

I'm going to give the Hindu family down the road major shít when I get home because they don't have Santa visiting their kids at Christmas. The vegetarian scum won't be even having turkey and ham. Bastards.

You know full well I don't mean people who don't have Santa in their culture. This thread is about people telling children Santa isn't real, in a society like Ireland where Santa is a massive part of Christmas.