40% would prefer non-Christian school - Equate Ireland

frostyjacks

Cabaal wrote: »

Faiths?
I think you'll find Catholic ethos schools teach a Catholic religion class. They do not spend for example half the year teaching about the Islamic faith.

It's evident there's no real education about other Faiths from the fact that the majority of Irish people are likely unaware that jebus is a prophet in the Islamic faith.

I doubt even less know about the story for the creation of the Mormon religion and beliefs behind it.

So don't lie and claim it's about education of different Faiths when it is for no such thing, jebus doesn't like a lier.

Why would they spend half the year on teaching Islam? I'm assuming they allocate time for learning about each religion based on our demographics. So we learn the basics of Islam, Judaism etc., but most of the time is spent learning about the religion of almost everyone in this country. It's common sense really.

Delirium

frostyjacks wrote: »

Why would they spend half the year on teaching Islam? I'm assuming they allocate time for learning about each religion based on our demographics. So we learn the basics of Islam, Judaism etc., but most of the time is spent learning about the religion of almost everyone in this country. It's common sense really.

actually, it would be more sensible to have lessons about a topic/ritual (e.g. marriage).

Students could then compare and contrast the different faiths with regard to the topic/ritual.

There's no reason to structure the lessons to focus on one religion over the others.

MrPudding

robindch wrote: »

Your inability to see any problem, let alone sympathize, is farcical.

Banned.

MrP

techdiver

The major issue is here, is we need to be honest about what the situation is at the moment.

We do not have religious education in our schools. What we have is indoctrination. It is essentially state sponsored occult enrollment! It teaches make believe to children as fact. This is the major problem I have.

It is actually shocking how dumb mankind is when this stuff is even entertained. We have evolved **** all since the cave man.

Mary63

Who has been banned and why.

We actually don't want any time spent on religion at all,its far more important to concentrate on literacy and maths and any of us who have children in Catholic schools know for sure that very little religion is taught.

Its only atheists and non believers looking through the fence who think our children are spending half the day learning about the Immaculate conception.I wouldn't mind my children learning about that but not at the expense of learning to read and write proficiently.

I think Delirium that you should leave the school planning to the teaching staff,they are for the most part doing a very good job and most children are skipping happily to school every morning.

techdiver

Mary63 wrote: »

I think Delirium that you should leave the school planning to the teaching staff,they are for the most part doing a very good job and most children are skipping happily to school every morning.

What's that got to do with anything?

I was indoctrinated in school too and I was happy to go along with it because I knew no better. The problem is we don't produce enough free thinkers to shake that crap off in later life.

Religion does eat into the time that could be spent on more worthwhile subjects in school. This is a fact, not "delirium", as you put it!

Mary63

I think the main point for all of us is that our children are happy going to school,it is the most important thing for me anyway.

I wasn't indoctrinated in school,I can't remember what we did in religion class and I went to a convent school.I know we spent a lot of time collecting money for the "black babies",this is my only memory of anything vaguely to do with religion.

My children know nothing at all about Catholism even though they have spent eight years in the local Catholic school,they went to that school because we could walk to it.I doubt if they could even say the Hail Mary and they never came home with anything of a religious nature as part of homework.I don't know where you are getting this image of a cult mentality in our Junior Infants classes,I have been trotting up and down to our school since 1998 so I think I know more than people who either haven't applied to their catholic school or can't get a place because their children haven't been baptised.

You might think religion is "crap" tech driver but that doesn't mean it is and for lots of people religion is very meaningful,hence why we have so many full Catholic schools in every parish in the country.

Delirium

Mary63 wrote: »

Who has been banned and why.

We actually don't want any time spent on religion at all,its far more important to concentrate on literacy and maths and any of us who have children in Catholic schools know for sure that very little religion is taught.

Its only atheists and non believers looking through the fence who think our children are spending half the day learning about the Immaculate conception.I wouldn't mind my children learning about that but not at the expense of learning to read and write proficiently.

I think Delirium that you should leave the school planning to the teaching staff,they are for the most part doing a very good job and most children are skipping happily to school every morning.

Why? I pay my taxes.

Why should I rollover and accept religious discrimination towards non-Catholic children trying to get a place in a public shool?

All children (Catholic or not) deserver better.

Shrap

Mary63 wrote: »

We actually don't want any time spent on religion at all,its far more important to concentrate on literacy and maths and any of us who have children in Catholic schools know for sure that very little religion is taught.

The Alive-o workbook comes home for homework *religiously* every week. It doesn't need to be even given to non-religious/other religious children and could easily be worked at during the new proposed timetabling. As could prayers. As could the practice for communion and confirmation.

Its only atheists and non believers looking through the fence who think our children are spending half the day learning about the Immaculate conception.I wouldn't mind my children learning about that but not at the expense of learning to read and write proficiently.

Well there's a point in there somewhere, but it's not for me to take. All faith formation is at the expense of the curriculum. Ask any teacher. And atheists are looking through the fence?! Don't make me laugh. This imaginary division between parents that you describe doesn't translate to real life. Why would a school consisting of 95% Catholic parents nominate me as the Chair of the PA and then the Parent's rep, if they thought my atheism had anything detrimental to add to my clarity of thought or my mediation skills? I can't even begin to tell you how many parents I drew in from outside "the fence" to examine how best we parents could help the teachers manage/fund/resource the school. You're dreaming Mary.

I think Delirium that you should leave the school planning to the teaching staff,they are for the most part doing a very good job and most children are skipping happily to school every morning.

Have you asked any school board how they would structure the "ethos" differently, if it was up to them and it didn't hold the "special place" that it currently has? I have. Their answer doesn't sit well with your theories on the subject.

techdiver

Mary63 wrote: »

You might think religion is "crap" tech driver but that doesn't mean it is and for lots of people religion is very meaningful,hence why we have so many full Catholic schools in every parish in the country.

The reason for so many full Catholic schools is the fact that they are, for the most part, the only game in town.

Education is still the only sacred cow in this country that is allowed to discriminate against children based on a fictional, made up belief system!

Delirium

techdiver wrote: »

Religion does eat into the time that could be spent on more worthwhile subjects in school. This is a fact, not "delirium", as you put it!

:D

Mary was referring to myself

techdiver

Delirium wrote: »

:D

Mary was referring to myself

Ah!

I win the idiot award today!

Shrap

Mary63 wrote: »

You might think religion is "crap" tech driver but that doesn't mean it is and for lots of people religion is very meaningful,hence why we have so many full Catholic schools in every parish in the country.

You are painfully obtuse here. We have so many full Catholic schools in every parish in the country because the likes of me either recognise the necessity of our children being educated with their peers, in their community, or have no place else to go.

Before I became Chair of the PA, the school was hemorrhaging families (even Catholic ones !) due to some serious issues. Now it's the fastest growing community school for an hour's drive around. The full school has sweet fcuk all to do with it's Catholic ethos.

robindch

Mary63 wrote: »

You might think religion is "crap" tech driver but that doesn't mean it is and for lots of people religion is very meaningful,hence why we have so many full Catholic schools in every parish in the country.

Sentences like the above mean that I have no idea whether Mary63 is trolling the forum or not

Mary63 - just to deal with the possibility, can you please confirm that you're being serious when you write things like the above?

Mary63

I couldn't be more serious robindch,the vast majority of parents couldn't careless about the ethos of the school,they are concerned about the size of the class,what the teachers are like,how many children are non national,if there are a lot of children who don't have english as their first language this will impact on my childs education so I will try and find out who my children's peers will be before I take up a place.I am not interested in welcoming waifs and strays,we can't afford them and if they have to be here I want them in the school up the road and not in my children's school.

I know every other parent in my children's school is of the same belief as me,we are thrilled with our school,we have bought so many extras,we even have an astro turf pitch,we have ensuite facilities,a great library,loads of computers and a very good library.

We are certainly not cribbing about the teaching of religion,we don't in fact know how much time is spent on learning it in school,we trust the teachers to have their priorities right and the priority is the academic stuff.

We have a lot of stress going on in our lives and we accept the things we can change,the things we can't and the wisdom to know the difference.

robindch

Mary63 wrote: »

I couldn't be more serious robindch [...]

Thanks for replying and confirming.

I'm asking because I don't believe the forum has ever hosted anybody who's been so completely unsympathetic to the reality of life in Irish schools for the kids of non-religious parents. Though while you don't sympathize with the discriminated kids or their parents, or even acknowledge it openly, you nonetheless seem quite happy to use this discrimination to benefit your kids, in your eyes at least. For me, that's a degree of cynicism which verges on the breathtaking - no doubt you disagree.

Mary63 wrote: »

We are certainly not cribbing about the teaching of religion,we don't in fact know how much time is spent on learning it in school, we trust the teachers to have their priorities right and the priority is the academic stuff.

Just for your information, statistics released by the Department of Education, the ESRI and the teaching unions all indicate that between ten and twenty percent of the entire junior curriculum in religiously-controlled schools is taken up learning that one religion is right, and all the others are wrong. That figure averages out to between half a day and a day per week, and over an eight year junior cycle, to something between six and twelve months of school time - but for what?

Shrap

We, we, we.....all the way home. I remember hearing "We all think that..." once too often out of a certain parent in my school and so in front of *gasp* the local TD, *double gasp* the priest, the entire BOM and all the parents, I challenged her with "Who's this we then?". Utter silence from the audience as nobody stood up for her.......Whereupon she took her kids out of the school. She was the last to do that, and good riddance.

Mary, if you haven't been elected to represent anyone, may I humbly suggest that you stop speaking for them as if you're an official mouthpiece. I realise this is an anonymous internet forum, but it's still an unattractive trait. Try the word "I". It would go over better.

Samaris

Mary63 wrote: »

how many children are non national,if there are a lot of children who don't have english as their first language this will impact on my childs education so I will try and find out who my children's peers will be before I take up a place.I am not interested in welcoming waifs and strays,we can't afford them and if they have to be here I want them in the school up the road and not in my children's school.

Charming.

Mary63 wrote: »

I know every other parent in my children's school is of the same belief as me-

...-If- on the mad offchance all the parents in the school -actually- are of a hive mind with you (and as Shrap has ably pointed out, this is beyond unlikely), that school's got a hell of a lot more issues than the potential loss of a yearly carol service.

eviltwin

Mary63 wrote: »

I couldn't be more serious robindch,the vast majority of parents couldn't careless about the ethos of the school,they are concerned about the size of the class,what the teachers are like,how many children are non national,if there are a lot of children who don't have english as their first language this will impact on my childs education so I will try and find out who my children's peers will be before I take up a place.I am not interested in welcoming waifs and strays,we can't afford them and if they have to be here I want them in the school up the road and not in my children's school.

Showing your true colours now Mary, that didn't take long.

lazygal

eviltwin wrote: »

Showing your true colours now Mary, that didn't take long.

Very Christian attitude. Once again I'm wondering if this is the ethos taught in religious schools.

Mary63

Why shouldn't I say I don't want my children in a school with a myriad of nationalities eviltwin,at least I am being honest and not rushing off to find a Gaelscoil where I know the chances of immigrant children making their way there would be much lower.

There are schools in Dublin with very few Irish children,who wants their child in a classroom where his vocabulary won't be extended because no one speaks his language.I see principals and teachers saying how wonderful all this multi culturalism is,you can bet your life their own children are in different schools.

I genuinely have only met one parent who cared about religion in school and she traipsed miles everyday to an ET together school.I would be walking to our local catholic school and she would pass me on her way,her children must have been thirty minutes late for school everyday,seriously,this is nonsense when she could have gone to one of five different local catholic schools and saved her self stress and fuel.Her dd is probably an atheist now just like my ds.

And no,I couldn't care less about the perceived discrimination,you can take the easy option just like I did or you can wail and gnash your teeth and complain because you can't get a place,why should you get a place when everyone else has gone to the trouble of having their child baptised into the Faith and its a Faith school you are after.

It makes no difference to me what you do but you are very mistaken if you think you have much support for your crusade.You can organise as many meetings as you like in town halls,you won't get anyone to go.You won't get the ear of local politicians because they know most parents are as indifferent as me and there are no votes to be gained by rocking the boat.

I really don't know what the Catholic Church can do either and its not just the Catholic Churches you should have in your sights.The church have acknowledged they have too many schools and they would like to get rid of the schools in disadvantaged areas,they did their best to off load the schools and most of the parents polled didn't even bother replying never mind vote to become non denominational.

frostyjacks

lazygal wrote: »

Very Christian attitude. Once again I'm wondering if this is the ethos taught in religious schools.

I think you'll find, once you get down off your high horse, that most parents don't want lessons translated into several different languages when it comes to choosing a school for their children.

Mary63

Its hard enough for little ones to settle into Junior infants and make little friends.

It must be just awful to realise the only person you can talk to is the teacher.

I suppose though if this means your child won't be exposed to religion for some people thats a price worth paying,they aren't paying the price anyway,its their five year old who is.I would be very upset if I had to live in one of these disadvantaged areas and this was the only choice of school I had.

I would think this would be a genuine reason to fret.

Osgoodisgood

Mary63 wrote: »

I couldn't be more serious robindch,the vast majority of parents couldn't careless about the ethos of the school,they are concerned about the size of the class,what the teachers are like,how many children are non national,if there are a lot of children who don't have english as their first language this will impact on my childs education so I will try and find out who my children's peers will be before I take up a place.I am not interested in welcoming waifs and strays,we can't afford them and if they have to be here I want them in the school up the road and not in my children's school.

I know every other parent in my children's school is of the same belief as me,we are thrilled with our school,we have bought so many extras,we even have an astro turf pitch,we have ensuite facilities,a great library,loads of computers and a very good library.

We are certainly not cribbing about the teaching of religion,we don't in fact know how much time is spent on learning it in school,we trust the teachers to have their priorities right and the priority is the academic stuff.

We have a lot of stress going on in our lives and we accept the things we can change,the things we can't and the wisdom to know the difference.

I personally consulted every parent in the country (except for the 12 members of the "Women Of Wicklow - Bringing In God's Old Testament" group who prefer their name acronymed btw) and I must say I'm not sure you've got your whip count right here Mary. Leaving aside the nauseating selfishness on display, your lack of awareness of the prevailing sentiment towards the socially and politically disenfranchised from around the world is breathtaking.

Shrap

frostyjacks wrote: »

I think you'll find, once you get down off your high horse, that most parents don't want lessons translated into several different languages when it comes to choosing a school for their children.

Are you and Mary related? Or maybe you live under the same bridge, admiring the empty echoes that your vitriolic excreta makes in bouncing off the stonework. :rolleyes:

You stay classy, guys. I'm off to speak with people who don't get their kicks out of having sh1tty attitudes towards disadvantaged people. And if I get carded for this, well worth it.

Mary63

The Gaelscoils are inundated with demand osgoodisgood,its very co incidental that people discovered a love of Irish when numbers of immigrant families started to arrive.Most of the new found interest in the irish language was to do with parents making sure their children weren't outnumbered in the local schools,I don't blame the parents,I would do the same myself.

Its interesting that all the commentators withering on about how multi culturalism is good for us don't actually live in Clonee and Huntstown,they live in nice leafy Rathmines and Terenure.I don't have ****ty attitudes towards disadvantaged people,I feel sorry for them and their children and so glad I can provide a nice life for my own children.I heave a sigh of relief every time I walk through the school gates that I have so much to be grateful for.

You didn't consult me osgoodisgood,if you had I would have said our classes were a bit big and could you do something about that.I wouldn't even have thought of mentioning the topic of religion to you.

I am quite confident that I have the whip count right,there is no real demand for change regarding the patronage of schools,we might get around to that when we have dealt with the physical conditions of some schools.Some of them are a national disgrace.

marmurr1916

frostyjacks wrote: »

I have a problem with Godless busybodies thinking they can tell parents how, when and where they can have their own children educated about religion.

People died to keep the faith going in this country. Good, strong people. And for what? What for, eh? So some know-it-alls can just throw it on the scrapheap? I'm not having it.

Ireland isn't Taliban-land. If you don't like the fact that the Constitution of Ireland, enacted by the people of Ireland, gives non-religious people the right to avoid religious instruction in publicly funded schools, campaign for a constitutional amendment.

As for your 'I'm not having it' remark, are you codding me?

As time goes by, more and more people in Ireland are voluntarily giving up religion, and many of those that hang onto it do so more out of habit and reflex than belief.

The 1950s are over, get over it. :P

lazygal

Mary63 wrote: »

The Gaelscoils are inundated with demand osgoodisgood,its very co incidental that people discovered a love of Irish when numbers of immigrant families started to arrive.Most of the new found interest in the irish language was to do with parents making sure their children weren't outnumbered in the local schools,I don't blame the parents,I would do the same myself.

Its interesting that all the commentators withering on about how multi culturalism is good for us don't actually live in Clonee and Huntstown,they live in nice leafy Rathmines and Terenure.I don't have ****ty attitudes towards disadvantaged people,I feel sorry for them and their children and so glad I can provide a nice life for my own children.I heave a sigh of relief every time I walk through the school gates that I have so much to be grateful for.

You didn't consult me osgoodisgood,if you had I would have said our classes were a bit big and could you do something about that.I wouldn't even have thought of mentioning the topic of religion to you.

I am quite confident that I have the whip count right,there is no real demand for change regarding the patronage of schools,we might get around to that when we have dealt with the physical conditions of some schools.Some of them are a national disgrace.

Do you know where anyone posting here lives?

Is your selfish attitude towards the less fortunate than you something taught in faith schools?

looksee

frostyjacks wrote: »

I think you'll find, once you get down off your high horse, that most parents don't want lessons translated into several different languages when it comes to choosing a school for their children.

You got a lifeline Fj, thank Mary nicely for throwing you a new idea to bring into your limited argument!

Samaris

Mary63 wrote: »

The Gaelscoils are inundated with demand osgoodisgood,its very co incidental that people discovered a love of Irish when numbers of immigrant families started to arrive.Most of the new found interest in the irish language was to do with parents making sure their children weren't outnumbered in the local schools,I don't blame the parents,I would do the same myself.

Proof? I could as easily say "It's very co-incidental that people discovered a love of Irish when the religious ethos of the country waned, particularly after the scandals came to light during the early 2000s. Most lf the new-found interest in the Irish language was to do with parents not wanting their children educated in the poisonous atmosphere they either experienced themselves or were hearing existed from every side."

I would have just as much proof as your comment. I.e. none.

Mary63 wrote: »

Its interesting that all the commentators withering on about how multi culturalism is good for us don't actually live in Clonee and Huntstown,they live in nice leafy Rathmines and Terenure.

Er, it might be interesting if you had the slightest proof (or even the slightest reason for guessing beyond remarkably self-serving prejudice) that this was so. Are you psychic?

Mary63 wrote: »

I don't have ****ty attitudes towards disadvantaged people,I feel sorry for them and their children and so glad I can provide a nice life for my own children.I heave a sigh of relief every time I walk through the school gates that I have so much to be grateful for.

Well...going on this thread, yeah, kinda do. From dismissively sweeping away any foreigners (or is it just poor foreigners, you're okay with say, Swedes, French?) as "waifs and strays" that "we can't afford" who will contaminate your children's schools with their pesky knowledge of non-English languages. Ah, let your sprog pick up some Arabic. Increase that vocabulary you were concerned about!

Mary63 wrote: »

You didn't consult me osgoodisgood,if you had I would have said our classes were a bit big and could you do something about that.I wouldn't even have thought of mentioning the topic of religion to you.

I am quite confident that I have the whip count right,there is no real demand for change regarding the patronage of schools,we might get around to that when we have dealt with the physical conditions of some schools.Some of them are a national disgrace.

Your whip count being..."Irish parents in general", you seem to be concluding? Except Rathmines and Terenure. And the tiny subset of the country as a whole in this very thread suggesting you're actually pretty outnumbered in terms of the rather extraordinarily selfish "Well, -I'm- grand, so why on earth would I lift a finger to help anyone else?" attitude shown in your posts so far.

Delirium

frostyjacks wrote: »

I think you'll find, once you get down off your high horse, that most parents don't want lessons translated into several different languages when it comes to choosing a school for their children.

What primary schools currently translate lessons into a variety of languages?

And I would have thought that in 2015, getting more children to be polyglots would only be a good thing?

Mary63 wrote: »

The Gaelscoils are inundated with demand osgoodisgood,its very co incidental that people discovered a love of Irish when numbers of immigrant families started to arrive.Most of the new found interest in the irish language was to do with parents making sure their children weren't outnumbered in the local schools,I don't blame the parents,I would do the same myself.

Bit unfair to ascribe xenophobic tendencies to all gaelscoil parents.

Bristolscale7

Mary and frosty, I for one appreciate your candour. A quick off topic question if you don't mind. What are your thoughts on water charges?

Shrap

Since we're totally and possibly irredeemably off topic here, I'd just like to share what gave me the best laugh last night .....

Osgoodisgood wrote: »

I personally consulted every parent in the country (except for the 12 members of the "Women Of Wicklow - Bringing In God's Old Testament" group who prefer their name acronymed btw)

Mary63 wrote: »

You didn't consult me osgoodisgood

kylith

Gaelscoils? Personally I don't think children who don't speak Irish should be allowed to attend them. It's not fair to hold back gaelgoir children to cater for those who don't speak the language. How can Irish-speaking parents expect their child's vocabulary to be expanded when the teacher has to translate all the lessons for children who don't speak any Irish?

MrPudding

Mary63 wrote: »

My children know nothing at all about Catholism even though they have spent eight years in the local Catholic school,they went to that school because we could walk to it.

Let's try a different approach. Your kids allegedly know nothing about catholism despite 8 years in catholic schools. For their spell in primary school a full 10% of their day was taken up by religious teaching. would that not suggest that 10% might be better spent teaching somethings else? It seems like an awful lot of time to waste in what is an extremely important time in a child's development.

Also, I quick comment on the language red herring. My daughter went to the French school in Dublin, and it was an amazing experience for her. Each year they would have at least one child that did not speak French. The other kids would translate for the child and the teacher. It was a fantastic experience that benefited the children. Try to be a little more open minded.

MrP

Cabaal

kylith wrote: »

Gaelscoils? Personally I don't think children who don't speak Irish should be allowed to attend them. It's not fair to hold back gaelgoir children to cater for those who don't speak the language. How can Irish-speaking parents expect their child's vocabulary to be expanded when the teacher has to translate all the lessons for children who don't speak any Irish?

Seems fair enough,
Did i hear somewhere that Gaelscoils are going to start requiring that children attending them will have had to attend Irish Language creches and pre-school years in future?

Mary63

I am not selfish at all lazy gal,I am a brilliant mother and every decision I make is in the best interests of my children.

I don't have my head up where the sun doesn't shine pontificating and navel gazing and wanting the world to operate according to my wish list.

If my children don't leave school with a good education no one is going to want to employ them,no one is interested in what they believe in,they want to see the quality of their degree.I don't want my children living in disadvantaged areas of this country surrounded by undesirables both native and new comers,Have you seen the amount of these new comers who are appearing before the Courts everyday,its shocking,its not as if we don't have enough of our own wasters to fill prison places.

If you want to put your high founding ideals before getting the best school for your child then you are answerable to no one but yourself.I wonder what your children's grandparents have to say about your pig headed selfishness.I will be having words with my own atheist ds if he attempts to disadvantage my grandchildren,I couldn't care less what he believes in but his decision is not to impact on my future grandchildren's right to the best education they can get and the peer group is a vital part of a good educational experience.

There are as many Gaelgoir children as there are atheist children,most of the children in Gaelscoils are there because there are too many immigrant children in the local national schools and their parents want their children to be educated alongside a majority of Irish children.We all feel more comfortable among our own and while we welcome non nationals to a certain extent most of us are not too happy that 11% of our population are non national,the highest number of any country in Europe.I presume that is the number who are here legally,God alone knows how many are here illegally.I have a relative working in Revenue on a low salary,she is very annoyed at the number of people she has to deal with who have medical cards and they aren't a wet week in the country,she said its unreal.

I am wondering too how did that Pakistan,I can't call him a man,who raped the Downs Syndrome woman get into this country.He had been pestering local women on an on going basis and he even tried to force his way into someones home.Does anyone know how someone like that can get into this country,I know this is way off topic but I am puzzled.

I think you have enough to be doing cabaal dictating to the Faith schools how they are to operate,best get somewhere with that battle first before taking on the Gaelscoils enrolment policy.I would think most of the Gaelscoils are Catholic too though.

Delirium

Mary63 wrote: »

I am not selfish at all lazy gal,I am a brilliant mother and every decision I make is in the best interests of my children.

I don't have my head up where the sun doesn't shine pontificating and navel gazing and wanting the world to operate according to my wish list.

If my children don't leave school with a good education no one is going to want to employ them,no one is interested in what they believe in,they want to see the quality of their degree.I don't want my children living in disadvantaged areas of this country surrounded by undesirables both native and new comers,Have you seen the amount of these new comers who are appearing before the Courts everyday,its shocking,its not as if we don't have enough of our own wasters to fill prison places.

If you want to put your high founding ideals before getting the best school for your child then you are answerable to no one but yourself.I wonder what your children's grandparents have to say about your pig headed selfishness.I will be having words with my own atheist ds if he attempts to disadvantage my grandchildren,I couldn't care less what he believes in but his decision is not to impact on my future grandchildren's right to the best education they can get and the peer group is a vital part of a good educational experience.

Ignoring your xenophobic comment, how exactly are you condoning religious discrimination regarding access to public schools while then stating that the (I presume you mean local-area) peer group is a vital part of a good educational expericence?

kylith

Mary63 wrote: »

I am not selfish at all lazy gal,I am a brilliant mother and every decision I make is in the best interests of my children.

I don't have my head up where the sun doesn't shine pontificating and navel gazing and wanting the world to operate according to my wish list.

If my children don't leave school with a good education no one is going to want to employ them,no one is interested in what they believe in,they want to see the quality of their degree.I don't want my children living in disadvantaged areas of this country surrounded by undesirables both native and new comers,Have you seen the amount of these new comers who are appearing before the Courts everyday,its shocking,its not as if we don't have enough of our own wasters to fill prison places.

If you want to put your high founding ideals before getting the best school for your child then you are answerable to no one but yourself.I wonder what your children's grandparents have to say about your pig headed selfishness.I will be having words with my own atheist ds if he attempts to disadvantage my grandchildren,I couldn't care less what he believes in but his decision is not to impact on my future grandchildren's right to the best education they can get and the peer group is a vital part of a good educational experience.

I think you have enough to be doing cabaal dictating to the Faith schools how they are to operate,best get somewhere with that battle first before taking on the Gaelscoils enrolment policy.I would think most of the Gaelscoils are Catholic too though.

Of course you're selfish. You want to maintain the status quo because it suits you and you don't give a damn how it affects anyone else. Not only that but you don't see that since you and many other people don't actually give a sht about religion a secular education system would be just as good, if not better, for your kids.

And frankly I think that the fact that you would 'have words' with your son if he dared to stick to his principles is disgraceful. You should be encouraging your children to have the courage if their convictions and stand up for what they believe is right, not berating them for it.

fisgon

Mary63 wrote: »

I am not selfish at all lazy gal,I am a brilliant mother....

This thead is very entertaining.....

Mary63

Of course the peer group is really important Delirium,that is why myself and everyone of my neighbours send our children to the local Catholic school,my sister lives in a town in Meath and all her children and her neighbours children go to the local school and onto one of the best non fee paying community schools in the country too.This is why I can't see where the 40% of us who aren't happy is coming from,I wonder where the people polled expressing unhappiness in general with life and they didn't understand the question.

I agree completely with water charges Bristolscale7 and was raging to see those wasters dressed in hoodies and runners blocking workmen installing meters in our area.Why aren't they at work,I work part time and I saw them when I was driving to pick up my children to then spend the rest of the day working at home.These people don't work at all and they spend their day mounting their seven people protest because they haven't anything else to do.They never arrive until the afternoon because they don't get up till midday.

If the Government decides no one on Social Welfare has to pay water charges then the protests will be over.If this happens I might not pay myself.I am not paying water charges on the double because unemployed layabouts with iPhones in their hands and wearing nike runners and expensive soccer tops have bent the Government to their will.The scenes in Tallaght when Joan Burton who has always worked for the disadvantaged was locked up was a disgrace.I still can't understand why armed Gardai weren't drafted in,I would have given the order if I was in charge.

Shrap

Mary63 wrote: »

I don't want my children living in disadvantaged areas of this country surrounded by undesirables both native and new comers,Have you seen the amount of these new comers who are appearing before the Courts everyday,its shocking,its not as if we don't have enough of our own wasters to fill prison places........................

There are as many Gaelgoir children as there are atheist children,most of the children in Gaelscoils are there because there are too many immigrant children in the local national schools and their parents want their children to be educated alongside a majority of Irish children.We all feel more comfortable among our own and while we welcome non nationals to a certain extent most of us are not too happy that 11% of our population are non national,the highest number of any country in Europe.I presume that is the number who are here legally,God alone knows how many are here illegally.I have a relative working in Revenue on a low salary,she is very annoyed at the number of people she has to deal with who have medical cards and they aren't a wet week in the country,she said its unreal.

It's not often I'm genuinely disgusted by a post, but the amount of xenophobia on display here has me pretty queasy.

I see you've been "elected" to speak for everyone again Mary? And you were doing so well just referring to your own opinions yesterday evening.

Hate to break it to you, but the multi-denominational Gaelscoil closest to me consists of mostly "blow-ins" and alternative types, and among those families that I know, chose the school for the following reasons: a) it does not teach that one religion is the true religion, b) the parents having no Irish themselves, felt it was the only way their kids wouldn't be at a disadvantage when it comes to our compulsory subject in Leaving Certificate, and c) the school was clearly progressive as the headmaster is a openly gay man who publicly campaigns for equality.

Cabaal

Mary63 wrote: »

The Gaelscoils are inundated with demand osgoodisgood,its very co incidental that people discovered a love of Irish when numbers of immigrant families started to arrive.Most of the new found interest in the irish language was to do with parents making sure their children weren't outnumbered in the local schools,

Oh look, another baseless claim with no hard evidence to support it.

You could just as easily claim that the increase in Gaelscoils is due to RTE launching the TG4 station in 1996, after all there was a massive increase in Gaelscoils after that year.

Its about as concrete as a reason for Gaelscoils popularity as the one you've taken from your behind,

If your going to make claims can you atleast point to hard data that supports your claims, after all there are Gaelscoils in areas of Ireland that have little or no immigrant families so your "idea" doesn't really match up.

Shrap

fisgon wrote: »

This thead is very entertaining.....

This thread is a train-wreck. But we might as well carry on till it's stopped

Delirium

Mary63 wrote: »

Of course the peer group is really important Delirium,that is why myself and everyone of my neighbours send our children to the local Catholic school,my sister lives in a town in Meath and all her children and her neighbours children go to the local school and onto one of the best non fee paying community schools in the country too.This is why I can't see where the 40% of us who aren't happy is coming from,I wonder where the people polled expressing unhappiness in general with life and they didn't understand the question.

So you don't see the contradiction with supporting religious discrimination in primary schools while at the same time stating that the peer group is really important?

If the schools were secular, then all children would have the same opportunity to be schooled with their neighbours/peers. Yet you seem to want to only guarantee Catholics have that opportunity.

fisgon

frostyjacks wrote: »

I have a problem with Godless busybodies thinking they can tell parents how, when and where they can have their own children educated about religion.

People died to keep the faith going in this country. Good, strong people. And for what? What for, eh? So some know-it-alls can just throw it on the scrapheap? I'm not having it.

Is Frostyjacks for real? This reads like an atheist having some fun and trying to parody the theocrats.

Seriously, very entertaining.....

fisgon

Mary63 wrote: »

I am not paying water charges on the double because unemployed layabouts with iPhones in their hands and wearing nike runners and expensive soccer tops have bent the Government to their will.............I still can't understand why armed Gardai weren't drafted in,I would have given the order if I was in charge.

Someone really needs to check with Mary again to see if she is for real.

Mary63

The increase in Gaelscoils is certainly not down to a new found interest in the language and I have been told by many parents they choose this option because of the numbers of non national children arriving in their area.

The only reason most students are still studying irish is because its compulsory.Enda Kenny suggested making it optional and the hundreds of people employed translating documents from English to Irish howled in protest,I suppose they want to justify their existence and their salary even though their work is pointless.

I have dds and I don't want them attending a school where the majority of their class might be Muslim,I would choose a Gaelscoil myself in this situation and I have as little interest in the Irish language as I do in Catholism.Ther is some point to learning Irish as well having the leaving cert in mind but my children have emerged from our education system with as much knowledge of Irish as they have about Catholism,i.e.zilch,they couldn't say the Hail Mary in Irish or English.

Are your children in that marvellous school shrap and if not why not.Why are you on here complaining when you have what you want on your doorstep.The head master should keep his private life private,none of us care who he goes to bed with.

Delirium,can't you get it into your head that the schools aren't secular because the vast majority of parents don't want them to be,you do and everyone here on this thread does apart from myself and frostyjacks.You are allowing no differences of opinion expressed here to cloud your view of reality.

Organise a march on Marlborough street to protest at the discrimination and you will see how many people will turn up.

Cabaal

Mary63 wrote: »

I am not selfish at all lazy gal,I am a brilliant mother and every decision I make is in the best interests of my children.

I don't have my head up where the sun doesn't shine pontificating and navel gazing and wanting the world to operate according to my wish list.

Thats debatable,
You are teaching your children to blindly bend to even the slightest social pressure and to just go with the crowd because "reasons".

Its also evident from your posts that you clearly have an issue with new Irish citizens in Ireland as you constantly refer to immigrants and new comers.

Finally, you also make completely baseless claims without hard evidence to support the claim. Not a good thing to teach any child.

most of the children in Gaelscoils are there because there are too many immigrant children in the local national schools and their parents want their children to be educated alongside a majority of Irish children.

Oh look, another baseless claim

We all feel more comfortable among our own

No, this is only a feeling felt by somebody who is bigoted or racist in my experience.

I've never felt uncomfortable for example working with people who were not born in Ireland or hanging out with people that didn't fit in with those great "christian morals" you appear to think are so important.

You clearly have issues with people not "Irish" as I've pointed out above, its a most unfortunate problem that I really hope you don't pass to your children....for their sake.

Tell me Mary, what are your thoughts on travelers? They are as Irish as anyone and they are good fine Catholics, likely more into catholic traditions then the avg person in Ireland...they certainly take them far more seriously anyway. I take it you're fine with your kids being friends with them or attending the same classes as your children, after all they'd believe in the same fine christian morals.

I think you have enough to be doing cabaal dictating to the Faith schools how they are to operate,best get somewhere with that battle first before taking on the Gaelscoils enrolment policy.I would think most of the Gaelscoils are Catholic too though.

As we can see Gaelscoils are giving priority to children who have attended Irish pre-school already, given Irish pre-schools are relatively new this is likely the first step in them phasing out acceptance of children who do not attend Irish pre-school.

I'm not dictating anything to the Gaelscoils, they already discriminate against children who don't attend Irish pre-school. Its not a bad idea really, it weeds out time wasting parents and parents who are not committed to teaching their kids Irish at home before they attend Irish school.

At present some schools give priority to students who attend a naíonra or an Irish-medium primary school, in accordance with the criteria set out in their admissions policy. This may be subject to change when new regulations on school admissions come into effect in 2015. You must contact the school and seek information regarding their admission policy and school enrolment. A child who spends some time in a naíonra before attending school does gain an advantage, as it offers a very good foundation for him/her to be immersed in the language in a learning environment that is fun and enjoyable. Schools’ policies may differ but the school’s management should be able to provide you with information and guide you through the process.

Making an effort with language is one thing, but its evidence most parents make next to no effort with religion as confirmed by the MASSIVE drop in mass attendance from 90% of the Irish population in 1970s to less then 30% now.

You can't be a good god fearing catholic if you can't even make time to worship your god and consume your god each and every Sunday.

Cabaal

Mary63 wrote: »

The increase in Gaelscoils is certainly not down to a new found interest in the language and I have been told by many parents they choose this option because of the numbers of non national children arriving in their area.

Oh so your evidence is anecdotal,
So basically meaningless and just basically equal to baseless speculation.

You know NASA never landed on the moon right?, somebody told me they didn't...as such its FACT! :pac: