30 kWh Leaf Slight Delay

Villain

I really don't think charges per minute will be a thing after the CER is involved.

The range is all subjective, when I drove to Dublin to meet ESB ecars I charged on the SCP then had to spin to park west where I grabbed a fast charge at Nissan HQ left with 80% and decided when I hit the M7 I would drive as I would normally had in my Subaru with heat etc on and I was actually disgusted at the battery performance once you hit 120kmh! I had to limp home!

Even the 30kWh battery isn't going to allow me to drive as normal with heaters etc for a round trip Dublin.

Range is the big issue, yes most people drive on average low amounts but the freedom to drive where and when they want at weekends or holidays etc is a big big issue and the idea of having to queue at a station to get fuel makes them laugh.

We have a LONG way to go here and imo PHEV are a great stepping stone and you are right boatman they are only a stop gap but that stop gap could be 10 plus years imo.

Villain

Actually looking at Norway which we all aspire to in the EV world, PHEV is growing strongly. From November last year:

Norway scored one of its best months ever for plug-in electric car sales in November, exceeding 24% market share.

Registrations of passenger cars hit 3,027 (2,040 all-electric and 987 plug-in hybrids). That’s nearly double the amount sold in November 2014 (1,544).

About half the PHEV sales come from the new Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. The Outlander (including ICE version) was the second best-selling model last month with 578 registrations, and nearly 500 of those were PHEVs!

Plug-in hybrid sales are growing very quickly in Norway (up by 677%) – from just 127 a year ago, while all-electric cars are moving up slower (but still a strong 43%).

Separately, 170 new electric vans were registered, as well as 10 used imported electric vans. Imports of used all-electric passenger cars are still strong at 661.

Water John

I think PHEV is just a short life tech. A bridging gap, as much for the customer as the manufacturers.
EV will swing mainstream in a few years. Many will use it as the second family car first and then get comfortable with it.
Connolly at Aalborg University forecasts an increase of electricity of 400% if we go towards carbon neutral. With 85% of that coming from RE.
That needs Big Govn't to drive it.

Lets be clear, there's going to be no mass transition to electric vehicles for a long time, even the 60 Kwh Leaf won't persuade a huge amount of people, more people sure, but the Golf TDI will remain the No.1 seller in Ireland until diesels are not made any more.

There needs to be a lot more choice of electric vehicles.

A 400% in electricity costs ? highly unlikely, businesses would go bust, I think of my work place, consumes over 150 MW of power between the 2 buildings and that's probably continuous , a 400% increase in electricity would drive them off the Island for sure and many more. Their energy consumption is to grow a lot more too.

Plug ins are far too expensive and most people would not need the engine so why bother ?

Lets be clear, there's going to be no mass transition to electric vehicles for a long time, even the 60 Kwh Leaf won't persuade a huge amount of people, more people sure, but the Golf TDI will remain the No.1 seller in Ireland until diesels are not made any more.

There needs to be a lot more choice of electric vehicles.

A 400% in electricity costs ? highly unlikely, businesses would go bust, I think of my work place, consumes over 150 MW of power between the 2 buildings and that's probably continuous , a 400% increase in electricity would drive them off the Island for sure and many more. Their energy consumption is to grow a lot more too.

Plug ins are far too expensive and most people would not need the engine so why bother ? at least for most of their driving, have a 60 kwh battery and sure, no need for a plug in.

Villain

Villain wrote: »

I really don't think charges per minute will be a thing after the CER is involved.

The range is all subjective, when I drove to Dublin to meet ESB ecars I charged on the SCP then had to spin to park west where I grabbed a fast charge at Nissan HQ left with 80% and decided when I hit the M7 I would drive as I would normally had in my Subaru with heat etc on and I was actually disgusted at the battery performance once you hit 120kmh! I had to limp home!

Even the 30kWh battery isn't going to allow me to drive as normal with heaters etc for a round trip Dublin.

Range is the big issue, yes most people drive on average low amounts but the freedom to drive where and when they want at weekends or holidays etc is a big big issue and the idea of having to queue at a station to get fuel makes them laugh.

We have a LONG way to go here and imo PHEV are a great stepping stone and you are right boatman they are only a stop gap but that stop gap could be 10 plus years imo.

The heater is the least of your worries, if you have the heat pump the effect on range is negligible, wind at 120 kph is the problem. Just think , your Subaru probably wouldn't go 10 miles on the same amount of fuel under the same conditions. Preheating will have an impact if not plugged in but if I can't plug in and need the range I turn on the heat only when I get into the car or maybe 5 mins before.

In commuter traffic you'd have plenty of range.

The 30 Kwh charges a decent bit faster, 24 mins 18-80% which is about 40-50 kms more range. In fact, the 30 Kwh at 80% will have as much range as the current 24 Kwh charged to 100% !

Not only that but above 80% it's still charging at about 30 Kw compared to 6-8 Kw with the 24 Kwh leaf.

So if you have the 30 kwh you benefit more if the ESB bill per minute !

Sounds like the leaf isn't working out for you or is an inconvenience, maybe you should give consideration to the 30 Kwh ? Or just sell it and be done with it.

It's interesting to look at the carwings site and see the consumption for each trip, over 130 odd kms I average 21-29 Kwh, but I do put the boot down sometimes and drive faster than 120 the odd time.

Water John

Its 400% increase in production, not price.
If we want to go carbon neutral, car transport will go electric.

How fast that happens is mainly down to Govn'ts.
In these things there comes a tipping point, where it becomes normal/accepted/in thing to do.
It will happen. Its a question of when?
My opinion is ten years.
The next three years will set the ball fully rolling.

I think it may become the norm that you can buy any brand/model, choosing petrol, diesel or EV.

nokia69

BoatMad wrote: »

I still chuckle , when people talk about 60Kwh batteries and charging at home. with the present installed base of EVSE, thats at least 20 hours or more charging ( because current is tapering) . I presume your employer is happy with you only working for 4 hours ?, you'll want to plan that sunday drive to visit mum, a bit carefully too, ( like start charging on friday !!!!)

The future is not domestic charging , the infrastructure cant support it

There would be very few occasions that some one with a 60Kwh battery arrived home with 0% battery charge, but even if they did its still not a problem, an over night charge of 10 or 12 hours would give plenty of range for getting to work the next day

Tesla are now at 90Kwh and most people have no problem charging at home

Water John

Water John wrote: »

Its 400% increase in production, not price.
If we want to go carbon neutral, car transport will go electric.

How fast that happens is mainly down to Govn'ts.
In these things there comes a tipping point, where it becomes normal/accepted/in thing to do.
It will happen. Its a question of when?
My opinion is ten years.
The next three years will set the ball fully rolling.

I think it may become the norm that you can buy any brand/model, choosing petrol, diesel or EV.

Ah yeah, to electrify transport is a major transition of energy, renewables will play a part but at some point we will have to consider Nuclear.

I believe over the next 50 years or so Thorium or L.F.T.R reactors could become a reality with proper R&D.

Maybe in 100 years or so they will get Fusion to work.

Water John

Very interesting listening to Rory O'Sullivan of Energy Process Developments on radio during the week.
Thorium Reactors with liquid salt and zero pressure, look a very good prospect. Only 150Mw, modular and infinitely variable output.
One built in USA in the 60's. Not followed up because the military wanted plutonium.
They hope to have one built in 8 years.
Has great potential to match in with variable RE.

I see today Google are looking at wireless charging of EV's.
With Tesla, Google and others pushing EV could roll on quite quickly.

Villain

Water John wrote: »

I see today Google are looking at wireless charging of EV's.
With Tesla, Google and others pushing EV could roll on quite quickly.

I thought wireless chargers already existed and were in production, don't ESB ecars have one at HQ?

Water John

Water John wrote: »

Very interesting listening to Rory O'Sullivan of Energy Process Developments on radio during the week.
Thorium Reactors with liquid salt and zero pressure, look a very good prospect. Only 150Mw, modular and infinitely variable output.
One built in USA in the 60's. Not followed up because the military wanted plutonium.
They hope to have one built in 8 years.
Has great potential to match in with variable RE.

I see today Google are looking at wireless charging of EV's.
With Tesla, Google and others pushing EV could roll on quite quickly.

L.F.T.R offers tremendous advantages, the major one being safety and no risk of melt down.

Having less than 1% of the waste also means they are very efficient.

I think it will be many years before one reaches commercial production at the current rate of interest and funding. Just think of what could have been if the US military didn't shut down the project.

You'd have a very hard time convincing Irish people of the advantages and any form of Nuclear energy is illegal here too and it would take many years for this to be debated and changed and would probably have to go to vote and guess what that outcome would be ?

Villain

Villain wrote: »

I thought wireless chargers already existed and were in production, don't ESB ecars have one at HQ?

Wireless charging exists but there are no cars who can charge wirelessly at this time.

The only practical reason for wireless charging is for locations a cable isn't possible, you loose efficiency also.

Villain

Deleted User wrote: »

Wireless charging exists but there are no cars who can charge wirelessly at this time.

The only practical reason for wireless charging is for locations a cable isn't possible, you loose efficiency also.

You can use it with a few cars if you add third party kit e.g. https://www.pluglesspower.com/plugless-questions/

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

L.F.T.R offers tremendous advantages, the major one being safety and no risk of melt down.

Having less than 1% of the waste also means they are very efficient.

I think it will be many years before one reaches commercial production at the current rate of interest and funding. Just think of what could have been if the US military didn't shut down the project.

You'd have a very hard time convincing Irish people of the advantages and any form of Nuclear energy is illegal here too and it would take many years for this to be debated and changed and would probably have to go to vote and guess what that outcome would be ?

Yes but the increasing resistance to wind turbines is a factor that may sway the electorate

BoatMad

I'm not going to get into a debate mad_lad. But the nature of things is that our desire for energy always increases. Hence high value EVs will be at 200 kWh within 6-10 years. The idea that you can draw this type of energy from the domestic system is just ridiculous.

The expense of such upgrading , would be enormous and drawf the issue of EVs. Equally there would be no reason for the esb to upgrade, they will point to a network of fast chargers etc. ( and by then we will have private fast charge facilities )

Even the existence of night rate is under threat , smart metering will mean demand driven discounting. Which won't suit mobile systems like cars.

My view is that the cost of domestic recharging is artificially low as it wasn't designed to supply large consumers of electricity. Hence should EVs become popular , we will see a change in charging regime to rebalance commercial fast charging against domestic.

One way or the other costs will rise.

BoatMad

I'm not going to get into a debate mad_lad. But the nature of things is that our desire for energy always increases. Hence high value EVs will be at 200 kWh within 6-10 years. The idea that you can draw this type of energy from the domestic system is just ridiculous.

The expense of such upgrading , would be enormous and drawf the issue of EVs. Equally there would be no reason for the esb to upgrade, they will point to a network of fast chargers etc. ( and by then we will have private fast charge facilities )

Even the existence of night rate is under threat , smart metering will mean demand driven discounting. Which won't suit mobile systems like cars.

My view is that the cost of domestic recharging is artificially low as it wasn't designed to supply large consumers of electricity. Hence should EVs become popular , we will see a change in charging regime to rebalance commercial fast charging against domestic.

One way or the other costs will rise.

Water John

I think Boatmad, solar is becoming the preferred option, especially by the plannners.
This market will take off if the Govn't get it right and ESB will get their act together and process the connection applications.

Solar farm can be onstream in 3/4 months once it has planning and ESB connection.
Rory O'Sullivan is ex UL. Getting EU backing.

BoatMad

Water John wrote: »

I think Boatmad, solar is becoming the preferred option, especially by the plannners.
This market will take off if the Govn't get it right and ESB will get their act together and process the connection applications.

Solar farm can be onstream in 3/4 months once it has planning and ESB connection.
Rory O'Sullivan is ex UL. Getting EU backing.

Price /performance for PV panels in Ireland is awful though. I can't see PV working financially without massive sudsidy.

But I agree re lack of feed in tariffs. It's crazy ,though I hear there some movement. The gap between and what actually transpires in items do

nokia69

BoatMad wrote: »

I'm not going to get into a debate mad_lad. But the nature of things is that our desire for energy always increases. Hence high value EVs will be at 200 kWh within 6-10 years. The idea that you can draw this type of energy from the domestic system is just ridiculous.

Why is it ridiculous ?

Right now there are people who own 2 Model S P90D charging them at home with no problem

You keep assuming that people will arrive home every day with 0% left on whatever size battery they have, we all know this is just not true

BoatMad

nokia69 wrote: »

Why is it ridiculous ?

Right now there are people who own 2 Model S P90D charging them at home with no problem

You keep assuming that people will arrive home every day with 0% left on whatever size battery they have, we all know this is just not true

Yes I know all that. , but the fact is if you need maximum range and near maximum recharge , you are not going to draw that from a domestic supply.

It's " just " doable today and anything over 3kw needs careful planning , over 6 kW is virtually impossible on today's domestic circuits.

Hence within a night rate period we have something like Max of 6 x 8 , ie 48kw , that's simply not going to be enough in 5-10 years.

The FCP network will be crucial to the evolution of the EV. home charging is a transitory thing that is a function of current battery size and mains capacity.

You need to think of EV usage as in mainstream car use , reps on the road , people visiting kids etc. Can easily do 300 km In a day at motorway ( or just above ) speeds. Recompute a leafs requirements in battery capacity for that. !!

Otherwise EVs will just be a small fan club

nokia69

BoatMad wrote: »

home charging is a transitory thing that is a function of current battery size and mains capacity.

Its clearly not, once 50Kwh or larger batteries become available most people will do close to 100% of their charging at home

BoatMad

nokia69 wrote: »

Its clearly not, once 50Kwh or larger batteries become available most people will do close to 100% of their charging at home

Sorry , to quote a well known " engineer ", " you canna deny the laws of physics , captain "

Water John

The solar output in the southern half of the country equals that in Germany.
It will be the biggest RE source in Ireland if the price is right.
That my help very much with day rate electricity when smart meters come in.

Rafal

For those looking for information related to the original topic of this thread, that is the delayed release of Nissan Leaf MY2016 here is a fresh and clean thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057558393

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

Price /performance for PV panels in Ireland is awful though. I can't see PV working financially without massive sudsidy.

But I agree re lack of feed in tariffs. It's crazy ,though I hear there some movement. The gap between and what actually transpires in items do

Solar PV works in Ireland not as good as Spain but it works and it's much cheaper than wind energy with no maintenance.

To run the Leaf and house I would need according to the solar calculators 8-9 Kw/P of solar but this won't work without a FIT because all that energy generated in Summer can't be stored in a battery.

Water John

That's right. Wasn't talking about off grid. FIT is part of the picture. The storage in EV's will also be a key piece of the jigsaw.

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

I'm not going to get into a debate mad_lad. But the nature of things is that our desire for energy always increases. Hence high value EVs will be at 200 kWh within 6-10 years. The idea that you can draw this type of energy from the domestic system is just ridiculous.

The expense of such upgrading , would be enormous and drawf the issue of EVs. Equally there would be no reason for the esb to upgrade, they will point to a network of fast chargers etc. ( and by then we will have private fast charge facilities )

Even the existence of night rate is under threat , smart metering will mean demand driven discounting. Which won't suit mobile systems like cars.

My view is that the cost of domestic recharging is artificially low as it wasn't designed to supply large consumers of electricity. Hence should EVs become popular , we will see a change in charging regime to rebalance commercial fast charging against domestic.

One way or the other costs will rise.

Costs will probably rise to upgrade the network as more and more of transport is electrified. On the other hand ESBN and electricity suppliers stand to make a fortune as more electricity is used for transport which might reduce the need to rise costs.

A 200 Kwh battery would provide about 700 Miles range, this is a complete waste in a passenger car for the majority of people. When you get your 30 Kwh Leaf you'll become aware of this.

If I could charge the 30 Kwh Leaf to 80% in 5-10 mins I would be a lot happier but I know I will be a lot happier with the faster charging ability of the 30 Kw leaf on the DC charger, it's great to see it hold 40-45 Kw all the way to 75% where it drops to 30 Kw by 80% , the 151 Leaf would ramp down to 30 Kw by about 50% and then by 0% be charging at about 6-8 Kw. This is a good improvement and makes much better use of the infrastructure !

Anyway, as I said even if you have a 200 kwh battery, you would charge that over a number of nights, it would take 33 ish hours empty to full, that's more than do-a-ble at 6 kw. Most people won't drive 700 miles a day or even every week so this charge can be built up for when you need it but again this is a huge waste of resources and I hope to see different battery Kwh options in the future so people can choose what they want.

Think about it, if you got around 140 Kms driving at a reasonable 100 Kph and can dump another 110 Kms in in 30 mins that's 240 kms.

Remember, the 30 Kwh leaf at 80% will have the same range as the 24 Kwh leaf charged to 100%.

I really can't see the need for more than 60 Kwh, especially in Ireland and if Leaf II can charge at 100Kw that would be fantastic.

BoatMad

Mad_lad, you might look at the progression of power in small to medium family cars, over the last 50 years. Today we have far more powerful engines.

200 Kwh, in a electric sports car, say an Audi Quattro A6 equivalent, would be nothing.

last week I did 520 Km in one day, no big deal.

You simply cant project forward and assume everyone will be driving leafs at 90km in 10 years time,

for mass market adoption, an EV must provide ALL the thrills and spills of a petrol and do it better.

nokia69

BoatMad wrote: »

Mad_lad, you might look at the progression of power in small to medium family cars, over the last 50 years. Today we have far more powerful engines.

True but have fuel tanks on the average car got much bigger

BoatMad wrote: »

200 Kwh, in a electric sports car, say an Audi Quattro A6 equivalent, would be nothing.

You might see 200Kwh in high end exotic cars, but in an A6 I really don't see too much need for anything over 100Kwh

BoatMad wrote: »

last week I did 520 Km in one day, no big deal.

And people do that and more today in the Model S with no problems, and their electric bill was far lower than your petrol/Diesel bill

BoatMad wrote: »

You simply cant project forward and assume everyone will be driving leafs at 90km in 10 years time,

I don't think anyone claims everyone will be driving electric in ten years time, but it will be millions, and it will be cars like the Leaf with 200 mile range and the ability to fast charge

BoatMad wrote: »

for mass market adoption, an EV must provide ALL the thrills and spills of a petrol and do it better.

They more or less do that now, for most people the issue is range or price, most people who test drive a Leaf or an i3 really like the cars and are willing to buy once the range improves, 200 miles is the tipping point or the sweet spot

BoatMad

They more or less do that now, for most people the issue is range or price, most people who test drive a Leaf or an i3 really like the cars and are willing to buy once the range improves, 200 miles is the tipping point or the sweet spot

come back to me when I can buy a Leaf GTi, with 400 mile range at 130Kmph , up a hill in a gale!!!!!

True but have fuel tanks on the average car got much bigger

thank you , fuel tank = battery, but thats not the point, power will increase and will be consumed as new models bring EVs to the masses.

BoatMad

They more or less do that now, for most people the issue is range or price, most people who test drive a Leaf or an i3 really like the cars and are willing to buy once the range improves, 200 miles is the tipping point or the sweet spot

given Ive just bought a 30kw leaf, let me say that 200 miles is not a tipping point, its merely that " maybe" more people, then the current minuscule amount "may" consider the car.

you have to consider whats needed for EVs to go mainstream, to replace the vast majority of private ICE cars. Thats means they must be demonstrably better then ICE. Hydrocarbon based cars will be around for another 100 years other wise.

The electric car must ultimately be batter at everything to get acceptable, merely good enough isn't going to cut it. Railways didn't go " a little" bit faster then canals, they revolutionised a transport mechanism.

nokia69

BoatMad wrote: »

you have to consider whats needed for EVs to go mainstream, to replace the vast majority of private ICE cars. Thats means they must be demonstrably better then ICE. Hydrocarbon based cars will be around for another 100 years other wise.

At the high end this has already happened, in the US the Model S is one of the best selling cars in its price range, and plenty of people believe it to be a better car than its ICE competitors

there was a 40Kwh Model S but it got canceled because very few people ordered it, but cars 60Kwh and over sell like hot cakes

IMO that kind of real world market research is proof that 60Kwh is what the mass market wants

BoatMad

nokia69 wrote: »

At the high end this has already happened, in the US the Model S is one of the best selling cars in its price range, and plenty of people believe it to be a better car than its ICE competitors

there was a 40Kwh Model S but it got canceled because very few people ordered it, but cars 60Kwh and over sell like hot cakes

IMO that kind of real world market research is proof that 60Kwh is what the mass market wants

on a data set of 0.8% of the market , I think not, it merely proves my point, people want " power" and increasing more of it. I suspect if teslas had a reasonable 100kwh battery, they'd be discontinuing the 60Kw as well.

It should also be realised that people that buy 100K plus cars are a minority and EVs tickle certain rich people

nokia69

BoatMad wrote: »

on a data set of 0.8% of the market , I think not, it merely proves my point

I said the high end of the market, the fact that a new company can take on and beat 100 year old competitors shows that people will buy electric if the car has the right range

BoatMad wrote: »

people want " power" and increasing more of it. I suspect if teslas had a reasonable 100kwh battery, they'd be discontinuing the 60Kw as well.

I think the 60Kwh pack is gone already, and I don't see the 70 lasting once the Model 3 goes on sale

BoatMad wrote: »

It should also be realised that people that buy 100K plus cars are a minority and EVs tickle certain rich people

I know they're a minority I never claimed otherwise , do you even read my posts

almost every new technology starts as a toy for the rich, then slowly the price drops and the mass market gets a chance to buy it

http://cleantechnica.com/2016/01/15/1-large-luxury-car-in-us-tesla-model-s-2015-sales-comparison/

Lads , ye still don't see that range is only part of the issue with electrics, most people wouldn't consider an EV in the first place because they see no problem with driving what they've always driven, ICE.

The real change comes only when manufacturers stop making ice cars or the E.U or local Governments get their acts together and realise that diesel exhaust is causing god knows how many cancer cases. It's up there now with asbestos.

I for one don't want my Children breathing in that crap or solid fuel emissions/smoke , I don't want to breath it in.

However most people simply couldn't care less.

Water John

Mad Lad, it will be a mix of both. the old carrot and stick.
As easy and reliable as ICE, especially distance and cheeeeper to run is the carrot.
Diesel particulate will be a driving force on Govn't, EU and individual that's the stick. Linking this to poor health outcomes is critical to public awareness.

Water John

Water John wrote: »

Mad Lad, it will be a mix of both. the old carrot and stick.
As easy and reliable as ICE, especially distance and cheeeeper to run is the carrot.
Diesel particulate will be a driving force on Govn't, EU and individual that's the stick. Linking this to poor health outcomes is critical to public awareness.

I doubt there are many people in Ireland who care much about air quality, where I live so many houses burn filthy coal despite oil being much cheaper now and a lot cleaner. Most new cars since 2008 are diesel solely for the cheap "Road Tax" the majority of people don't drive the kms to justify a diesel.

People care only if it has an impact on their wallet but sadly they can't add up the price of coal , solid fuels in general V oil and the cost to buy and maintain a diesel, it's not just about 'road tax"

There's a smoky coal ban in carlow town yet I see many houses burning filthy coal. Solid fuel should be banned, there is an alternative called insulation and oil, gas .

Quiet a few people have told me there's no need for EV because diesel is cheap, imagine that, cheap diesel !

If people are going to change in Ireland there'll need to be a pretty thick thorny stick !

Villain

If you think we have bad air quality you have obviously never been to China!

peposhi

Villain wrote: »

If you think we have bad air quality you have obviously never been to China!

Or Sofia, Bulgaria... So you don't need to travel far

Water John

It will take political will above all. The reason the EU has not pushed on air quality degradation by ICE's is because Germany and France are major car manufacturers.
But I think the global warning Paris Agreement will be the big push.
Also non traditional manufacturers disrupting the market.

Villain

Villain wrote: »

If you think we have bad air quality you have obviously never been to China!

I haven't, why does that matter ? so I should accept the clouds of coal smoke here because air quality is a lot worse in China ?

Villain

Deleted User wrote: »

I haven't, why does that matter ? so I should accept the clouds of coal smoke here because air quality is a lot worse in China ?

Because it is all relative, our air quality is not an issue really and isn't going to be a reason for people to switch to EV.

Oafley Jones

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I doubt there are many people in Ireland who care much about air quality, where I live so many houses burn filthy coal despite oil being much cheaper now and a lot cleaner.

Hmmmmm. So what percentage of our electricity is generated from fossils fuels again.

Water John

Villain, air quality and climate change are the one issue. Its becoming more obvious that not just greenhouse gases but particle pollution is a dangerous catylist to health problems.
Electrical generation also must move radically to renewable energy.
Quite ridicolous, even in economic terms, to be importing so much energy.

Villain

Water John wrote: »

Villain, air quality and climate change are the one issue. Its becoming more obvious that not just greenhouse gases but particle pollution is a dangerous catylist to health problems.
Electrical generation also must move radically to renewable energy.
Quite ridicolous, even in economic terms, to be importing so much energy.

Yep I agree but we are just a drop in an ocean and wind generation has shown how NIMBY is alive and well. The price of oil is also killing the renewable argument at present, if people were paying over $120 a barrel they would be far more focused.

Villain

Villain wrote: »

Because it is all relative, our air quality is not an issue really and isn't going to be a reason for people to switch to EV.

I would say burning coal is a real issue yes, along with turf and briquettes.

Most people here are not going to change to EV until regulation changes.

I would say our Air quality varies throughout the Island but where I live clouds of coal smoke are a big problem and something I should not have to endure in 2016 !

cros13

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Hmmmmm. So what percentage of our electricity is generated from fossils fuels again.

But at night, when most EVs charge renewables are a much bigger percentage. On the night of the 4th I saw it top 80% renewable.

Oafley Jones

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Hmmmmm. So what percentage of our electricity is generated from fossils fuels again.

At night and sometimes during the day up to 50% of our electricity comes from wind, and more and more capacity is added every year, of course our electricity consumption is also growing.

I don't know why they still use coal to generate electricity, probably because it's cheaper than Gas.

A lot of electricity is used to refine petrol and diesel not to mention the energy needed to transport this oil from the wells to the refineries and then the petrol and diesel to the petrol stations and worse again is that a petrol or diesel will burn that energy at about 20-30% efficiency max.

mylesm

Deleted User wrote: »

At night and sometimes during the day up to 50% of our electricity comes from wind, and more and more capacity is added every year, of course our electricity consumption is also growing.

I don't know why they still use coal to generate electricity, probably because it's cheaper than Gas.

A lot of electricity is used to refine petrol and diesel not to mention the energy needed to transport this oil from the wells to the refineries and then the petrol and diesel to the petrol stations and worse again is that a petrol or diesel will burn that energy at about 20-30% efficiency max.

If you dont know why they still burn coal dont even go near Peat we all pay a PSO Levy on our Bill to Continue Burning Peat