Bdgp

Bellview

when are next stars out - is it later this month. next breeding season will be interesting as farmers can revert back to whatever they wish now since any females born won't qualify for the scheme as they will be too young...so making stars useless again

Hard Knocks

Bellview wrote: »

when are next stars out - is it later this month. next breeding season will be interesting as farmers can revert back to whatever they wish now since any females born won't qualify for the scheme as they will be too young...so making stars useless again

Next stars in September & then December

bogman_bass

Bellview wrote: »

when are next stars out - is it later this month. next breeding season will be interesting as farmers can revert back to whatever they wish now since any females born won't qualify for the scheme as they will be too young...so making stars useless again

Still need 80% of the AI straws to be 4 or 5 Star (maternal or terminal within or across breeds)

Also heifers will contribute to the 2020 figure.
Can’t be too many lads that aren’t hitting the targets at this stage.

I won’t be changing anyways j’m breeding the animal I want by sticking to the scheme

Lady Haywire

I think I know the answer but just need confirmation of it, if I sell a cow & keep the calf (4 months) will I be fined cause he's not 5 months? Can't keep one jumping bitch anywhere so have her in the shed for the last week.

tanko

I think you're ok once you keep the calf until it's 5 months old.

Lady Haywire

tanko wrote: »

I think you're ok once you keep the calf until it's 5 months old.

Oh! I thought splitting cow & calf would cause a fine. He's staying until winter anyway.

tanko

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Oh! I thought splitting cow & calf would cause a fine. He's staying until winter anyway.

I think you can sell the cow at any stage after she calves but the calf has to be kept until he's 5 months old.
You could ring ICBF to check for certain.

Lady Haywire

tanko wrote: »

I think you can sell the cow at any stage after she calves but the calf has to be kept until he's 5 months old.
You could ring ICBF to check for certain.

Ah can't be bothered ringing them, I'm not keeping the cow anyway so I'll take whatever comes. Thanks for the input!:D

Bellview

bogman_bass wrote:

Also heifers will contribute to the 2020 figure. Can’t be too many lads that aren’t hitting the targets at this stage.

According to icbf there are around 1300 that are missing the 25 per cent this year...would be interesting how many will hit the 50 percent.
I must admit I'm in scheme and completely ignore the stars as I'm culling what I don't like for temperament etc regardless of stars. I had 4 kyas here all 5 star all are now gone as complete and utter nut jobs. Their mothers are still in herd and have calves by my Stock bull and this year's calves are quiet...not sure how icbf can allow an angus that is madder than a limo stay at 5 star...and I know of other folks with same experience...and another simple fact on kya unless you cross him with an elephant you only get a rabbit...another reason he should be one star...for munster ai he is a commercial success for dairy farmers he is a dream for beef farmers he is a joke

Bellview

Eligible females is also a joke. I have a cow that in Aug 16 she was genomic tested and was 5 star. Today she is 3 star. Good news she has a lovely calf weaned and another due shortly in few weeks....but she is eligible as 5 star for scheme....if genomic test good why did she drop and if they messed up stars why is she now qualifying...makes a mockery of the scheme...also if this had been reverse ie she went from 3 to 5 would I have got credit as a 5 star...
The more we scratch the surface of the scheme the more illogical it is. Explains why limo and ch have started some sort of walk away from it but both societies are still afraid of what icbf might do to them

High bike

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Ah can't be bothered ringing them, I'm not keeping the cow anyway so I'll take whatever comes. Thanks for the input!:D

tanko is right u can do what u like with the cow but have to keep the calf for 5 mts

Dunedin

I normally synchronize a few heifers and AI them to have them calving at Christmas when I’m off work but I keep a bull for the main herd as AI not practical due to off farm job.

I now have 2 AI heifer calves in the herd and Reading over the BDGP report I take from it that I can only put AI bull to these? Am I right?

What happens if I don’t see them on heat or if they don’t hold to AI?

tanko

Dunedin wrote: »

I normally synchronize a few heifers and AI them to have them calving at Christmas when I’m off work but I keep a bull for the main herd as AI not practical due to off farm job.

I now have 2 AI heifer calves in the herd and Reading over the BDGP report I take from it that I can only put AI bull to these? Am I right?

What happens if I don’t see them on heat or if they don’t hold to AI?

You can put any bull on them as long as the bull qualifies for the scheme.
Why do you think you have to use Ai on them?

Dunedin

tanko wrote: »

You can put any bull on them as long as the bull qualifies for the scheme.
Why do you think you have to use Ai on them?

I never thought that until tonight but that was the way I read it and I obviously took it up wrong

Dunedin

tanko wrote: »

You can put any bull on them as long as the bull qualifies for the scheme.
Why do you think you have to use Ai on them?

My mistake, just read it properly and that’s only if using AI.

Bellview

Just saw online over 20 percent of farmers have left the scheme.. sends a message on its relevance ..

whelan2

Bellview wrote: »

Just saw online over 20 percent of farmers have left the scheme.. sends a message on its relevance ..

I was just saying yesterday isn't it mad that a good few of our pedigree Angus cows who have plenty of milk and rear good calves each year have feck all stars and a scrawny aax from a fr cow has 5 stars. Crazy scheme

TPF2012

whelan2 wrote:

I was just saying yesterday isn't it mad that a good few of our pedigree Angus cows who have plenty of milk and rear good calves each year have feck all stars and a scrawny aax from a fr cow has 5 stars. Crazy scheme

If you were inclined to conspiracy theories you'd think the powers that be want the whole country in dairy and those that can't taking the cast-offs from dairy?

Dunedin

whelan2 wrote: »

I was just saying yesterday isn't it mad that a good few of our pedigree Angus cows who have plenty of milk and rear good calves each year have feck all stars and a scrawny aax from a fr cow has 5 stars. Crazy scheme

My best cow has 2 stars. And all her data is recorded accurately

patsy_mccabe

Dunedin wrote: »

My best cow has 2 stars. And all her data is recorded accurately

All her relatives must be doing bad if she has poor stars. It's chicken and egg stuff. The info to compile the stars is coming from farmers cattle via mart prices, factory kills and data from calving surveys etc. It comes from a lot of farmers, especially for AI bulls. If the stars are wrong in your view, it might be down to limited info known about the animal.

croot

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

All her relatives must be doing bad if she has poor stars. ....

If that way of measuring performance was used in sport then Johnny Sexton shouldn't be Irelands no 10 as his aunts and grand aunt's were useless at rugby.

Bellview

patsy_mccabe wrote:

All her relatives must be doing bad if she has poor stars. It's chicken and egg stuff. The info to compile the stars is coming from farmers cattle via mart prices, factory kills and data from calving surveys etc. It comes from a lot of farmers, especially for AI bulls. If the stars are wrong in your view, it might be down to limited info known about the animal.

The problem in my opinion the baseline is all wrong. If I take kya in Angus. They are rats born poor performing cattle and will never be an Angus unless you cross it with an elephant...plus they are loopy...that bull is 5 star. You then have cyi or Nord both solid middle of the road bulls..they will always breed better than kya and they are 1 or 2 star.
If the Genomic test really finds the true ecomic value of a cow why do even the Genomic tested ones fluctuate crazy...and I have a few of these also.
The scheme is gone as money making and you can figure a way to manage it but if I followed the stars I would have a herd of kya that would be only fit for Cheltenham as no wire would keep them at home .... and I would start to fill my herd with myostatin that is hard calving goulding bulls for example... again with a pedigree Angus eyes on this the scheme does not work and ironically Angus show win here as they are a maternal breeec

wiggy123

how long is it going on--3 years(or am I wrong)..
the system has it flaws-but maybe the records we are using-data etc.. is only 3 years old! maybe in 10 years-if that amount of data is inputted in-- % could be better/more accurate..
also the scheme is reliant on peoples inputs, be some fibs told, etc...

I'm an angus breeder and understand what you say bellview

hard to know, are the using the wrong programs/variables etc....

Hard Knocks

wiggy123 wrote: »

how long is it going on--3 years(or am I wrong)..
the system has it flaws-but maybe the records we are using-data etc.. is only 3 years old! maybe in 10 years-if that amount of data is inputted in-- % could be better/more accurate..
also the scheme is reliant on peoples inputs, be some fibs told, etc...

I'm an angus breeder and understand what you say bellview

hard to know, are the using the wrong programs/variables etc....

Use to think the same ...
There has been allot of data recorded by commercial farmers in a long time, we’ve been doing it since first KT, others longer.

wiggy123

how long where the dairy side at it... or doing it... numerous, is it not only fulfilling its potential now!

Hard Knocks

wiggy123 wrote: »

how long where the dairy side at it... or doing it... numerous, is it not only fulfilling its potential now!

Think it still moves too, but the Dairy guys can tell

Bellview

Hard Knocks wrote:

Think it still moves too, but the Dairy guys can tell

Even in dairy side some folks here claim even some farmers are managing their figures... but at least milk is a fact...and in dairy there is a high percentage of ai used.
In beef the data is still sketchy and the gene in my opinion only validates parentage and little else.. also beef is more stock bull than ai .. and the scheme is not stock bull friendly... if I was cynical it's an effort to ensure we go more ai...and in pedigree Angus there is a trend to buy either bulls only suitable for dairy....or myostatin bulls as munster now have at least 3 hard calving double muscle bulls on their books

Buford T. Justice XIX

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Think it still moves too, but the Dairy guys can tell

The genomic figure is only a starting point in dairying AI. You are told to use a team of genomic bulls, at least 5, to spread the risk of a genomic bulls figures being abysmal. The average proofs of the 5 bulls will be fairly close to the average genomic figures in most cases.



You might have one dropping 40 or 50 Euro in EBI but the others should rise 9 or 10 and average out, especially over a number of years.


It's not so much one years figures, it's a compilation of increases over a number of years.

Bellview

Agreed on the advice but in the older days prior icbf we were doing the same with dairy test sires when lots of bull calves imported from ie Netherlands germany etc ...so in reality has genomics and icbf really improved the reliability or have icbf just done a great marketing jobs and little else

Plus being a cynic only one ai organisation is really represented on the ICBF board

Dunedin

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

All her relatives must be doing bad if she has poor stars. al.

I finish all stock under 30 months and her offspring, which is almost always a bull calf, consistently hit 470+ and u grade so why score the aunts, cousins, uncles and just consider junior every year!!!!!