Bdgp

wiggy123

to me, a waste of monies

reps4

Noticed in journal that eligible females on the requirement date in 2018 have to be born since 2013. I didn't see this requirement previously.
Anyone notice this before. This means any older genotype cows would be deemed ineligible.

tanko

reps4 wrote: »

Noticed in journal that eligible females on the requirement date in 2018 have to be born since 2013. I didn't see this requirement previously.
Anyone notice this before. This means any older genotype cows would be deemed ineligible.

I think that rule only applies to bought in stock, if the animals were in your herd when the scheme started they qualify no matter what age they are if theyre 4/5 star animals.

charolais0153

reps4 wrote: »

Noticed in journal that eligible females on the requirement date in 2018 have to be born since 2013. I didn't see this requirement previously.
Anyone notice this before. This means any older genotype cows would be deemed ineligible.

Ya that was known

Lady Haywire

Does that not only apply for animals bought in? I believe the ones in your herd at the time of signing up should be ok. Or was this just revised for the BDGP 2.

The requirement for female replacements is that, by the end of the scheme, the number of four- and five-star cows on a participating herds must be at least equal to 50% of the number of reference animals advised to the farmer at the start of the programme. For example, a farmer with 20 calved suckler cows in 2014 must have ten four- or five-star females by 31 October 2020. These animals must be at least 16 months old, to ensure they are being retained on farms, and must be four or five stars on the replacement index at the time of purchase, for heifers brought into the herd, or at the time of genotyping, for those replacements bred within the herd. There is also an intermediate target of 20% for 2018. A considerable amount of analysis has been undertaken to ascertain the availability of these female replacements in the coming years. Many farmers are already well on the way to meeting the requirement for four- and five-star animals. Analysis undertaken by ICBF of the 2014 beef genomics scheme has indicated that some 30% of herds are already compliant with the requirement for female animals in 2020, that is, that the number of four- and five-star heifers is equal to 50% of the reference animals on each farm. All farmers will receive comprehensive training, and ongoing information and advice to assist them in introducing the required breeding strategy. Of course, these requirements will take time to introduce and this is why a five-year lead-in time has been included in the design of the programme.

^ Taken from here- https://www.kildarestreet.com/committees/?id=2015-06-16a.5 which is a speech/debate by Gleeson & co.

and

Applicants are also required to ensure that a percentage of their heifers are genotyped females that are:

Four or five stars on the replacement index (within or across breeds) at the time of purchase or at the time of genotyping for those heifers bred from within the herd.
Where a non-genotyped heifer is purchased, this animal must be subsequently genotyped and confirmed four or five-star on the replacement index before being deemed eligible for the programme.
For heifers purchased after the closing date, they must be born in 2013 or later.
20% of the farms reference animals must be four or five-star genotyped heifers/eligible suckler cows by October 31, 2018, this requirement increases to 50% by October 31, 2020.

Taken from Agriland (published back in 2015- http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/genomics-here-are-the-requirements-of-the-new-suckler-scheme/ )

Lady Haywire

Actually it was discussed in this thread 9 months ago, look for post #110 onwards.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=103215091

reps4

Thanks. Still unsure if they qualify or not based on the posts. Anyone know for sure as t+c's are not clear.
As 1 of the old posts said which i agree totally with,I'm not going selling perfect old cows to go buying in younger problems..

tanko

reps4 wrote: »

Thanks. Still unsure if they qualify or not based on the posts. Anyone know for sure as t+c's are not clear.
As 1 of the old posts said which i agree totally with,I'm not going selling perfect old cows to go buying in younger problems..

I just checked mine on ICBF.com and it shows that the cows born before 2013 that are 4/5 star are eligible. Those cows were born on the farm here tho.
If youve got herdplus you can check yours there.

bogman_bass

Are lads really struggling to have 20% of reference number over 4 stars?

TITANIUM.

bogman_bass wrote: »

Are lads really struggling to have 20% of reference number over 4 stars?

I thought it was 50% by 2018 and 80% by 2020?
I could be way off but that was what I had in my head for some reason.

TITANIUM.

bogman_bass wrote: »

Are lads really struggling to have 20% of reference number over 4 stars?

You were spot on. Should never have doubted you.

tanko

TITANIUM. wrote: »

I thought it was 50% by 2018 and 80% by 2020?
I could be way off but that was what I had in my head for some reason.

Its 20% this year and 50% in 2020.

annubis

anyone else still waiting for payment? been promised i would be paid every week for i dunno how long but nothing yet, bit of a joke, everything in order, had inspection which was the cause of initial delay which went fine but still nothing from, kinda sick of ringing them at this stage

bogman_bass

annubis wrote: »

anyone else still waiting for payment? been promised i would be paid every week for i dunno how long but nothing yet, bit of a joke, everything in order, had inspection which was the cause of initial delay which went fine but still nothing from, kinda sick of ringing them at this stage

Yeah in the same boat here

annubis

bogman_bass wrote: »

Yeah in the same boat here

they keep telling me about a payment run next week.. and when next week comes the payment run is the following week :rolleyes:

Bellview

Any Facebook page you can post it on as public shame might help. Any good calling a td.

TITANIUM.

The Raes were trying to highlight late payments to farmers in the dail today but that Sligo leitrim clown McSharry reared up and a massive shouting match ensued. Resulting in the suspension of the dail for a few minutes.

annubis

Bellview wrote: »

Any Facebook page you can post it on as public shame might help. Any good calling a td.

rang the IFA for the first time ever in early january , they came back to me after a week or so and told me they looked into my case and i was going to be paid very soon

50HX

TITANIUM. wrote: »

The Raes were trying to highlight late payments to farmers in the dail today but that Sligo leitrim clown McSharry reared up and a massive shouting match ensued. Resulting in the suspension of the dail for a few minutes.

pat the cope did a dunphy on it with the pen

https://www.joe.ie/news/dail-argument-615382

Bellview

TITANIUM. wrote:

The Raes were trying to highlight late payments to farmers in the dail today but that Sligo leitrim clown McSharry reared up and a massive shouting match ensued. Resulting in the suspension of the dail for a few minutes.

The raes need trying to get folks onside. Saw some press on a development in tralee where locals kicking up as no planning etc for work on a pub
Maybe rae own payments were late...

Hurling Hereford

bogman_bass wrote: »

Yeah in the same boat here

Payment run earlier this week.

bogman_bass

It didn't run over here!

annubis

bogman_bass wrote: »

It didn't run over here!

mine finally showing in amounts due this morning

reps4

Yet another general question.. it's there a minimum requirement number of cows that have to calf each year as as percentage of reference initially.

For example I had 26 cows reference yr. Plan to reduce to 15 over next 2 yrs and make up my star's requirement with dry heifers.
Is 15 cows calving too little to be compliant.

Lady Haywire

No, you don't need to keep any cows at all, as long as you can genomic test your reference number of animals each year, which would mean buying in cattle. You'd also have to keep in mind your reference number for 4/5 star animals for this Oct 2018 & 2020.

sonnybill

I got paid this week for missing surveys but 2018 genotyping E155 deducted from it already !!! Thought they’d take it out of 2018 bdgp payment like they did with 15/16/17

kollegeknight

Anyone know what are the bands for the stars now? I can only find spring 2017.

Hurling Hereford

sonnybill wrote: »

I got paid this week for missing surveys but 2018 genotyping E155 deducted from it already !!! Thought they’d take it out of 2018 bdgp payment like they did with 15/16/17

As payment for 2018 will not be made until December 2018, that amount deducted for genotypin can only be for 2017 or previous yrs

Sami23

Hurling Hereford wrote: »

As payment for 2018 will not be made until December 2018, that amount deducted for genotypin can only be for 2017 or previous yrs

No my genotyping for 2018 was deducted also already as small numbers here and only in 2nd year so easy enough to work out

bogman_bass

kollegeknight wrote: »

Anyone know what are the bands for the stars now? I can only find spring 2017.

1* Up to 44
2* up to 63
3* up to 79
4* upto 98
5* 99+

Bellview

when are next stars out - is it later this month. next breeding season will be interesting as farmers can revert back to whatever they wish now since any females born won't qualify for the scheme as they will be too young...so making stars useless again

Hard Knocks

Bellview wrote: »

when are next stars out - is it later this month. next breeding season will be interesting as farmers can revert back to whatever they wish now since any females born won't qualify for the scheme as they will be too young...so making stars useless again

Next stars in September & then December

bogman_bass

Bellview wrote: »

when are next stars out - is it later this month. next breeding season will be interesting as farmers can revert back to whatever they wish now since any females born won't qualify for the scheme as they will be too young...so making stars useless again

Still need 80% of the AI straws to be 4 or 5 Star (maternal or terminal within or across breeds)

Also heifers will contribute to the 2020 figure.
Can’t be too many lads that aren’t hitting the targets at this stage.

I won’t be changing anyways j’m breeding the animal I want by sticking to the scheme

Lady Haywire

I think I know the answer but just need confirmation of it, if I sell a cow & keep the calf (4 months) will I be fined cause he's not 5 months? Can't keep one jumping bitch anywhere so have her in the shed for the last week.

tanko

I think you're ok once you keep the calf until it's 5 months old.

Lady Haywire

tanko wrote: »

I think you're ok once you keep the calf until it's 5 months old.

Oh! I thought splitting cow & calf would cause a fine. He's staying until winter anyway.

tanko

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Oh! I thought splitting cow & calf would cause a fine. He's staying until winter anyway.

I think you can sell the cow at any stage after she calves but the calf has to be kept until he's 5 months old.
You could ring ICBF to check for certain.

Lady Haywire

tanko wrote: »

I think you can sell the cow at any stage after she calves but the calf has to be kept until he's 5 months old.
You could ring ICBF to check for certain.

Ah can't be bothered ringing them, I'm not keeping the cow anyway so I'll take whatever comes. Thanks for the input!:D

Bellview

bogman_bass wrote:

Also heifers will contribute to the 2020 figure. Can’t be too many lads that aren’t hitting the targets at this stage.

According to icbf there are around 1300 that are missing the 25 per cent this year...would be interesting how many will hit the 50 percent.
I must admit I'm in scheme and completely ignore the stars as I'm culling what I don't like for temperament etc regardless of stars. I had 4 kyas here all 5 star all are now gone as complete and utter nut jobs. Their mothers are still in herd and have calves by my Stock bull and this year's calves are quiet...not sure how icbf can allow an angus that is madder than a limo stay at 5 star...and I know of other folks with same experience...and another simple fact on kya unless you cross him with an elephant you only get a rabbit...another reason he should be one star...for munster ai he is a commercial success for dairy farmers he is a dream for beef farmers he is a joke

Bellview

Eligible females is also a joke. I have a cow that in Aug 16 she was genomic tested and was 5 star. Today she is 3 star. Good news she has a lovely calf weaned and another due shortly in few weeks....but she is eligible as 5 star for scheme....if genomic test good why did she drop and if they messed up stars why is she now qualifying...makes a mockery of the scheme...also if this had been reverse ie she went from 3 to 5 would I have got credit as a 5 star...
The more we scratch the surface of the scheme the more illogical it is. Explains why limo and ch have started some sort of walk away from it but both societies are still afraid of what icbf might do to them

High bike

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Ah can't be bothered ringing them, I'm not keeping the cow anyway so I'll take whatever comes. Thanks for the input!:D

tanko is right u can do what u like with the cow but have to keep the calf for 5 mts

Dunedin

I normally synchronize a few heifers and AI them to have them calving at Christmas when I’m off work but I keep a bull for the main herd as AI not practical due to off farm job.

I now have 2 AI heifer calves in the herd and Reading over the BDGP report I take from it that I can only put AI bull to these? Am I right?

What happens if I don’t see them on heat or if they don’t hold to AI?

tanko

Dunedin wrote: »

I normally synchronize a few heifers and AI them to have them calving at Christmas when I’m off work but I keep a bull for the main herd as AI not practical due to off farm job.

I now have 2 AI heifer calves in the herd and Reading over the BDGP report I take from it that I can only put AI bull to these? Am I right?

What happens if I don’t see them on heat or if they don’t hold to AI?

You can put any bull on them as long as the bull qualifies for the scheme.
Why do you think you have to use Ai on them?

Dunedin

tanko wrote: »

You can put any bull on them as long as the bull qualifies for the scheme.
Why do you think you have to use Ai on them?

I never thought that until tonight but that was the way I read it and I obviously took it up wrong

Dunedin

tanko wrote: »

You can put any bull on them as long as the bull qualifies for the scheme.
Why do you think you have to use Ai on them?

My mistake, just read it properly and that’s only if using AI.

Bellview

Just saw online over 20 percent of farmers have left the scheme.. sends a message on its relevance ..

whelan2

Bellview wrote: »

Just saw online over 20 percent of farmers have left the scheme.. sends a message on its relevance ..

I was just saying yesterday isn't it mad that a good few of our pedigree Angus cows who have plenty of milk and rear good calves each year have feck all stars and a scrawny aax from a fr cow has 5 stars. Crazy scheme

TPF2012

whelan2 wrote:

I was just saying yesterday isn't it mad that a good few of our pedigree Angus cows who have plenty of milk and rear good calves each year have feck all stars and a scrawny aax from a fr cow has 5 stars. Crazy scheme

If you were inclined to conspiracy theories you'd think the powers that be want the whole country in dairy and those that can't taking the cast-offs from dairy?

Dunedin

whelan2 wrote: »

I was just saying yesterday isn't it mad that a good few of our pedigree Angus cows who have plenty of milk and rear good calves each year have feck all stars and a scrawny aax from a fr cow has 5 stars. Crazy scheme

My best cow has 2 stars. And all her data is recorded accurately

patsy_mccabe

Dunedin wrote: »

My best cow has 2 stars. And all her data is recorded accurately

All her relatives must be doing bad if she has poor stars. It's chicken and egg stuff. The info to compile the stars is coming from farmers cattle via mart prices, factory kills and data from calving surveys etc. It comes from a lot of farmers, especially for AI bulls. If the stars are wrong in your view, it might be down to limited info known about the animal.