Collecting feedback on the Dispute Resolution Process

Beasty · 22-01-2016 10:24pm

MadDog76 wrote: »

Reading between the lines here, and please do correct me (I know you will!) if I'm wrong, are you saying that if you investigate an appeal and decide that the Mod is wrong you will then contact the Mod in question to give him/her the opportunity to reverse their decision with the knowledge that if they don't then you, most likely, will?

Pretty much - not every time though as sometimes the mod may not be around. There is a particular issue with short bans, as they can only be overturned while current. Hence sometimes with a short day ban if I can get to look quickly enough I may simply lift it if I think it was not warranted (that happened with at least one of the Soccer bans I lifted last year). Once the ban has expired you cannot mark it as overturned (well at mod level we can't and I'm pretty sure the Admins can't either - no idea if technical staff can do so but they are too busy dealing with bigger issues such as rolling out the new site or trying to fend off DDos attacks. Admins can put a separate note on someone's record, but it's more straightforward to try and lift it before it expires.

Sometimes the mod may just leave it to me to lift it - that's certainly happened a few times - at least once with that list of links I provided. I am not though going to go into any details of any individual appeals here though.

Beasty · 22-01-2016 10:38pm

deepesthole wrote: »

Can you quote for us where you said that?

See here:

K-9 wrote: »

And 7/25 cases that went to DRP were ruled on favourably to the poster. I'm surprised it is as high as 28% going on the concerns raised in your posts. Much higher than that and I'd be asking serious questions about the modding decisions.

I would just add a comment about how the DRP has evolved during the time I have been dealing with appeals. In the past there were, in my view, a lot more "frivolous" attempts to get cards or bans overturned. However over time, possibly on seeing that such appeals are generally not entertained, my own view is there are fewer such appeals.

Just again to illustrate this, in my experience the number of appeals has reduced. There are now more Sports CMods around than when I started dealing with appeals, but I reckon I probably have dealt with a majority of Sports appeals over the past year. That has averaged an appeal every couple of weeks or so. I have not actually dealt with an appeal in nearly 2 months now. A couple of years ago it was certainly averaging more than one a week. I suspect my ratio of appeals where cards or bans were overturned a couple of years ago was less than 28%

K-9 · 23-01-2016 12:39am

deepesthole wrote: »

Can you quote for us where you said that?

It was posted last night or yesterday. All you have to do is read back, or click on the last page.

K-9 · 23-01-2016 12:55am

deepesthole wrote: »

Can I ask if a poster would be permitted to post in this manner in response to a moderator?

Hmmm, a poster was able to post saying Beasty's DRP threads basically didn't exist, rather than go to the bother of reading the DRP forum. I found 5 threads with a quick scan last night.

So if somebody can post doubting the integrity of a mod, what exactly is the problem? Are you completely ignoring wild, unsubstantiated, Conspiracy Theory type posts that agree with your view, and focusing on mod posts only?

Feedback should be constructive. For example the idea of a panel of 3 people judging cases seems fair to me.

Anonymous posting is also a decent shout, but as I pointed out would be a trolls paradise, fair point. It would need to be pre approved or it would be abused to throw mud at mods. That's not dismissing the idea, just unfortunately great ideas have to be tweaked sometimes because trolls and wind up merchants will take the piss.

There are a good few posters saying DRP is fine or is too convoluted, those views have to be considered as well, not just those few agreeing with you.

deepesthole · 23-01-2016 1:06am

K-9 wrote: »

It was posted last night or yesterday. All you have to do is read back, or click on the last page.

So the response to "do you have evidence" is "you go find the evidence". If it's so obvious why don't you just quote it?

deepesthole · 23-01-2016 1:13am

K-9 wrote: »

So if somebody can post doubting the integrity of a mod, what exactly is the problem? Are you completely ignoring wild, unsubstantiated, Conspiracy Theory type posts that agree with your view, and focusing on mod posts only?

Sorry, do you actually know what a conspiracy theory is? (I assume you're copying and pasting the words for some reason as you are capitalising them?) The problem is, trolling is a bannable offense. You are a mod calling a poster a troll yet not doing anything about it. It's a cheap shot to shut down uncomfortable discussion, plain as day.

K-9 wrote: »

There are a good few posters saying DRP is fine or is too convoluted, those views have to be considered as well, not just those few agreeing with you.

And besides other mods, few would be an exaggeration to describe how many people agree with you.

K-9 · 23-01-2016 1:22am

Copying and pasting, well done. I'm on my phone so auto correct.

K-9 · 23-01-2016 1:25am

MadDog76 wrote: »

I've said this 3 times already but I'll repeat it ......... I have looked, I couldn't find Beasty's examples ......... do they actually exist?

At this point I'm suspecting they might not ..........

What's your interpretation of that last line?

deepesthole · 23-01-2016 1:25am

K-9 wrote: »

Copying and pasting, well done. I'm on my phone so auto correct.

Yeah, that was the most important part of my post and needed immediate rebutting. The rest can be ignored.
"Well done".

deepesthole · 23-01-2016 1:29am

K-9 wrote: »

What's your interpretation of that last line?

What's your interpretation of this line? How can somebody have an "interpretation" of their own post?

Beasty · 23-01-2016 1:38am

deepesthole wrote: »

So the response to "do you have evidence" is "you go find the evidence". If it's so obvious why don't you just quote it?

I quoted it 3 posts ahead of yours

deepesthole wrote: »

And besides other mods, few would be an exaggeration to describe how many people agree with you.

Have you actually read any of the thread, other than trying to isolate specific points to try and have a go at certain posters? You did this with me yesterday and now you are doing it again

Check the first couple of pages for a "few" examples of "regular" posters who actually seem quite happy with the process and there are more later in the thread. Having said that there are clearly a small number of us (myself included), both from the mod ranks and "regular" users who have dominated the thread

K-9 · 23-01-2016 1:41am

deepesthole wrote: »

And besides other mods, few would be an exaggeration to describe how many people agree with you.

Again dismissiveness of posters who don't agree with your world view.

Probably shill accounts set up by mods, bit like the mods are putting off others from posting.

And they don't particularly agree with me, they agree with the process or actually think it is too convoluted.

This dismissiveness is a problem. Dismiss Beasty's stats, suggest they don't exist, dismiss the DRP as pointless, get the stats, dismiss mods rescinding cards or bans as inadmissible, dismiss opinions from fellow users of the site etc. etc.

K-9 · 23-01-2016 1:43am

deepesthole wrote: »

What's your interpretation of this line? How can somebody have an "interpretation" of their own post?

If you don't want to answer just say so instead of answering a question with a question.

Insect Overlord · 23-01-2016 2:33am

deepesthole wrote: »

I thought the debate was about whether cmods or admins ever overturn mod decisions? If a mod himself changes his mind anyway that's hardly the same thing.

And what's your own experience of DRP? What's the root of your perspective on how the whole system works?

MadDog76 · 23-01-2016 2:51am

MadDog76 wrote: »

Cmods rarely ever go against Mods and Admins almost never go against Cmods ......... I say almost because it may have happened but I couldn't find any at all that weren't a case of mistaken identity or a glitch in the system.

As another poster on here mentioned, Mods and Cmods "work" for free so an Admin would be very reluctant to over-rule (embarass, de-power etc.) a Mod/Cmod as all Mods/Cmods get in return from volunteering their time to Boards is a sense of authority ....... if you take that away from them and publicly embarrass them then, being human, they would be less likely to do the grunt work for the Admins.

But there's no way of getting away from this fact ........ Mods/Cmods, being human afterall, make mistakes and errors in judgement which go unchecked more often than rectified.
And that's without the instances were Mods/Cmods are biased by their own personal opinion of a topic/thread/post/poster and exercise (or abuse?) their power to force their own opinions to the foreground disguised (sometimes thinly) as "sticking to the Charter".

Obviously I don't expect any Mod, Cmod or Admin to agree with of the above.

MadDog76 wrote: »

Reading between the lines here, and please do correct me (I know you will!) if I'm wrong, are you saying that if you investigate an appeal and decide that the Mod is wrong you will then contact the Mod in question to give him/her the opportunity to reverse their decision with the knowledge that if they don't then you, most likely, will?

Beasty wrote: »

Pretty much - not every time though as sometimes the mod may not be around. There is a particular issue with short bans, as they can only be overturned while current. Hence sometimes with a short day ban if I can get to look quickly enough I may simply lift it if I think it was not warranted (that happened with at least one of the Soccer bans I lifted last year). Once the ban has expired you cannot mark it as overturned (well at mod level we can't and I'm pretty sure the Admins can't either - no idea if technical staff can do so but they are too busy dealing with bigger issues such as rolling out the new site or trying to fend off DDos attacks. Admins can put a separate note on someone's record, but it's more straightforward to try and lift it before it expires.

Sometimes the mod may just leave it to me to lift it - that's certainly happened a few times - at least once with that list of links I provided. I am not though going to go into any details of any individual appeals here though.

I'm sure your reasons for allowing Mods to reverse their decisions before you do it for them are commendable but I think your politeness to Mods "behind the scenes" could/can, unintentionally from your point of view, promote abuse of the power to dish out bans/infractions, ie. some Mods may be adapting an attitude of "Sure I can ban/infract whoever I like" for less than deserving reasons knowing that a Cmod in DRP will, most likely, uphold the decision or, at worst, give the Mod the opportunity to reverse the decision him/herself thus saving them from any public embarrassment or accusations of being a "bad" Mod.

This practice in the DRP may be perceived as protecting substandard Mods whilst maintaining the status quo ....... in short, let's just keep the wheels turning as fast as possible so nobody notices that the wagon is broken.

intheclouds · 23-01-2016 8:23am

K-9 wrote: »

Anonymous posting is also a decent shout, but as I pointed out would be a trolls paradise, fair point. It would need to be pre approved or it would be abused to throw mud at mods. That's not dismissing the idea, just unfortunately great ideas have to be tweaked sometimes because trolls and wind up merchants will take the piss.

I thought all anon posting on the site worked on the pre approved model, so that is what I meant when I made the suggestion. I was also only suggesting it be allowed on this thread to gather honest feedback.

Although actually, anonymous posting only means other posters won't know who you are, presumably the site still knows who you are (from IP address?), so maybe it's a pointless idea anyway.

Beasty · 23-01-2016 10:14am

MadDog76 wrote: »

I'm sure your reasons for allowing Mods to reverse their decisions before you do it for them are commendable but I think your politeness to Mods "behind the scenes" could/can, unintentionally from your point of view, promote abuse of the power to dish out bans/infractions, ie. some Mods may be adapting an attitude of "Sure I can ban/infract whoever I like" for less than deserving reasons knowing that a Cmod in DRP will, most likely, uphold the decision or, at worst, give the Mod the opportunity to reverse the decision him/herself thus saving them from any public embarrassment or accusations of being a "bad" Mod.

This practice in the DRP may be perceived as protecting substandard Mods whilst maintaining the status quo ....... in short, let's just keep the wheels turning as fast as possible so nobody notices that the wagon is broken.

I think you are in danger of inventing reasons simply to be critical of the process. I can obviously only speak for myself, but the consequences of any mod action I initiate potentially coming to DRP really does not bother me either way. In fact I overturn many times more of the cards and bans I issue than have ever come anywhere near DRP (and have on occasions spoken to users "behind the scenes" as well as mods about overturning decisions I think may be excessive (even if not challenged by the user)).

And on the other side many mods complain that that are not permitted to put their own case across within the DRP unless specifically invited to do so. Any criticism of the process is far from one-way.

In my view the balance is about right and I'm certainly not seeing anything in this thread (or indeed discussions amongst mods) that suggests otherwise. That's obviously reflecting I am on one particular side of this "debate" but also that I have arguably had far more experience than anyone else on the site of the process and its pros and cons.

deepesthole · 23-01-2016 11:51am

K-9 wrote: »

Again dismissiveness of posters who don't agree with your world view.

Probably shill accounts set up by mods, bit like the mods are putting off others from posting.

And they don't particularly agree with me, they agree with the process or actually think it is too convoluted.

This dismissiveness is a problem. Dismiss Beasty's stats, suggest they don't exist, dismiss the DRP as pointless, get the stats, dismiss mods rescinding cards or bans as inadmissible, dismiss opinions from fellow users of the site etc. etc.

Laughably aggressive. Do you ever read your own posts? Listing all discussion as "dismissiveness" is a transparent ploy to end the debate.
Still can't manage to quote yourself either I see.
Roger and out. Like the guy said, make it anonymous or this is what you'll get.

MadDog76 · 23-01-2016 12:00pm

Beasty wrote: »

I think you are in danger of inventing reasons simply to be critical of the process. I can obviously only speak for myself, but the consequences of any mod action I initiate potentially coming to DRP really does not bother me either way. In fact I overturn many times more of the cards and bans I issue than have ever come anywhere near DRP (and have on occasions spoken to users "behind the scenes" as well as mods about overturning decisions I think may be excessive (even if not challenged by the user)).

And on the other side many mods complain that that are not permitted to put their own case across within the DRP unless specifically invited to do so. Any criticism of the process is far from one-way.

In my view the balance is about right and I'm certainly not seeing anything in this thread (or indeed discussions amongst mods) that suggests otherwise. That's obviously reflecting I am on one particular side of this "debate" but also that I have arguably had far more experience than anyone else on the site of the process and its pros and cons.

I don't believe I'm "inventing reasons" simply to be critical of the DRP, I offered this opinion/feedback early in the thread and it was dismissed as "nonsense" by a Mod but with more insight, from yourself, about the process from "behind the scenes" I think my reservations have at least been given a little more validation.

Surely you can see there might be a problem of substandard Mods issuing unnecessarily harsh bans/infractions if there are no consequences from doing so? The fact that you even say yourself that, as a Mod, "the consequences of any mod action I initiate potentially coming to DRP really does not bother me either way" shows how easily the system may be open to abuse by some Mods? Why not issue a ban if it'll more than likely be upheld in DRP and even if it is over-turned, "so what?".
It seems the opinion held by many "ordinary" Posters that the DRP usually sides with Mods may also be the opinion of many Mods ......... if this is the case then Posters won't bother appealing or using DRP and Mods will feel that their actions will, for the most part, go unchallenged. That attitude may be a problem ..........

Insect Overlord · 23-01-2016 12:25pm

MadDog76 wrote: »

Surely you can see there might be a problem of substandard Mods issuing unnecessarily harsh bans/infractions if there are no consequences from doing so?

Repeatedly saying "might", "may", "some", and "if" is not giving feedback. It is pure supposition. It comes across as the paranoid ramblings of someone who insists that the mere potential for error in the system is absolute proof of actual abuse. It's silly that you've let your imagination cloud your judgement so much that you've kept beating this drum over the last few days.

TL;DR: "It could happen!" does not equal 'It is happening/it is a problem.'

deepesthole · 23-01-2016 12:41pm

An File wrote: »

Repeatedly saying "might", "may", "some", and "if" is not giving feedback. It is pure supposition. It comes across as the paranoid ramblings of someone who insists that the mere potential for error in the system is absolute proof of actual abuse. It's silly that you've let your imagination cloud your judgement so much that you've kept beating this drum over the last few days.

TL;DR: "It could happen!" does not equal 'It is happening/it is a problem.'

Yeah, no problem here with the attitude of the moderators. None. At all. And if you want to pretend Joe Punter would be allowed to post this sort of thing to a moderator then go ahead. You know yourself it's a lie.
Out.

Beasty · 23-01-2016 12:45pm

MadDog76 wrote: »

I don't believe I'm "inventing reasons" simply to be critical of the DRP, I offered this opinion/feedback early in the thread and it was dismissed as "nonsense" by a Mod but with more insight, from yourself, about the process from "behind the scenes" I think my reservations have at least been given a little more validation.

Surely you can see there might be a problem of substandard Mods issuing unnecessarily harsh bans/infractions if there are no consequences from doing so? The fact that you even say yourself that, as a Mod, "the consequences of any mod action I initiate potentially coming to DRP really does not bother me either way" shows how easily the system may be open to abuse by some Mods? Why not issue a ban if it'll more than likely be upheld in DRP and even if it is over-turned, "so what?".
It seems the opinion held by many "ordinary" Posters that the DRP usually sides with Mods may also be the opinion of many Mods ......... if this is the case then Posters won't bother appealing or using DRP and Mods will feel that their actions will, for the most part, go unchallenged. That attitude may be a problem ..........

A minority of cards/bans get anywhere near the DRP. The majority are, in my view (and my direct involvement is pretty much limited to the Sports category), accepted - and chalked down to experience. I would estimate (based on numbers of yellow and red cards issued - I can't access detailed data on bans across the site) maybe 5-10% get overturned through discussion with the mod. Another 3-5% or so go through the formal dispute process.

Now I don't deny there have been and will I am sure continue to be mods that are probably not up to the job. I am aware of numerous examples (which I am certainly not going to go into here) of mods who have stepped down or been de-modded because they are really not suited to the role. I am also aware (again not going into individual details) of plenty of mods who have availed of the dispute process - most have had their cards/bans upheld, some have had them overturned.

Bottom line is we are all human. We all make mistakes. Ultimately though as I've indicated I think the dispute process works well. It's certainly not designed to "flush-out" poor mods. There are plenty of other ways users concerns on that front can be addressed. Those include speaking to the mods in question, or escalating it directly with CMods and on to the Help Desk. CMods and Admins keep an eye on stuff also and act in what we believe to be in the best interests of the site and its userbase as we see fit. The DRP process is one small part of the way this site operates. By the very nature of the site and the way it operates it will never keep everyone happy all the time. If anyone believes a mod is abusing anything the DRP is not the way to deal with that. It simply deals with individual cards or bans.

Yes you may have a little more insight after some of my comments. They may well "validate" your own concerns. I simply do not share those concerns.

MadDog76 · 23-01-2016 12:53pm

An File wrote: »

Repeatedly saying "might", "may", "some", and "if" is not giving feedback. It is pure supposition. It comes across as the paranoid ramblings of someone who insists that the mere potential for error in the system is absolute proof of actual abuse. It's silly that you've let your imagination cloud your judgement so much that you've kept beating this drum over the last few days.

TL;DR: "It could happen!" does not equal 'It is happening/it is a problem.'

Is it any wonder there's a lack of "ordinary" Posters contributing to this thread? With posts like this what Poster would feel comfortable offering their opinions in Feedback??

Your posts are coming across as "how dare you question us Mods!!" to be honest ......... that's how I feel, that's my opinion.

Thankfully there are also Mods, such as Beasty, willing to actually engage in this debate in a more reasonable and respectful manner.

looksee · 23-01-2016 2:12pm

It seems a bit unlikely that posters who believe mods are not operating fairly are going to believe yet another mod, but I will put in my two-cents worth.

Many mods deal with very active, sometimes contentious forums who have a great deal to do and are trying to keep track while doing a day job and keeping up with the topics. Just because of the number of reported posts and research they have to do, there is going to be the odd case that is miss-called. It doesn't really happen all that often and other mods and C mods are keeping an eye on situations. DRP is an effort to be fair and transparent - and requires an amount of effort and time that very, very few other sites are willing to offer.

There has to be a certain amount of latitude as some forums need one approach, and others need a different approach, there is not - beyond a few basic 'don't be a dick', don't use the site for advertising and spamming etc - a 'one size fits all' way of modding. And to be honest, mods are not going to give up their time just to be administrators of a set of rules that they have no flexibility on. Mods want 'their' forums to be effective, busy and interesting places, and they have a certain amount of latitude to achieve that. But they can't just do as they please either, they have to be fair and reasonable.

Mods who post in forums other than their own are subject to just the same rules as other posters, and they do not have any say in how that forum is being run, more than other posters, it is not their business.

The reason that most DRTs are not overturned is because mostly the mods get it right. If they have made an ill-judged call then the DRP is there to correct it, and that does happen sometimes.

The system of checks and balances may not be very obvious to other posters but it is there, and Boards has a much more open and equitable basis than most other sites. However the buck has to stop somewhere and whether you agree with a particular decision or not, it stops with DRP.

looksee · 23-01-2016 2:13pm

duplicate

MadDog76 · 23-01-2016 2:36pm

Beasty wrote: »

A minority of cards/bans get anywhere near the DRP. The majority are, in my view (and my direct involvement is pretty much limited to the Sports category), accepted - and chalked down to experience. I would estimate (based on numbers of yellow and red cards issued - I can't access detailed data on bans across the site) maybe 5-10% get overturned through discussion with the mod. Another 3-5% or so go through the formal dispute process.

This is where we disagree Beasty .......... you believe that infracted/banned Posters don't, for the most part, bother taking their appeals to the DRP because they accept their infraction/ban as justified.
Whilst I can see why you feel that way as a Mod, in my view, the reasons Posters don't bother with DRP is because a lot of us don't feel we'll be treated fairly.

Beasty wrote: »

Now I don't deny there have been and will I am sure continue to be mods that are probably not up to the job. I am aware of numerous examples (which I am certainly not going to go into here) of mods who have stepped down or been de-modded because they are really not suited to the role. I am also aware (again not going into individual details) of plenty of mods who have availed of the dispute process - most have had their cards/bans upheld, some have had them overturned.

I welcome that admission as there are some Mods on here who would deny that there are any substandard Mods at all currently on Boards.

Beasty wrote: »

Bottom line is we are all human. We all make mistakes. Ultimately though as I've indicated I think the dispute process works well. It's certainly not designed to "flush-out" poor mods. There are plenty of other ways users concerns on that front can be addressed. Those include speaking to the mods in question, or escalating it directly with CMods and on to the Help Desk. CMods and Admins keep an eye on stuff also and act in what we believe to be in the best interests of the site and its userbase as we see fit. The DRP process is one small part of the way this site operates. By the very nature of the site and the way it operates it will never keep everyone happy all the time. If anyone believes a mod is abusing anything the DRP is not the way to deal with that. It simply deals with individual cards or bans.

"Bad" Mods are of course a topic for another thread and I agree that DRP is not designed to highlight the problems with substandard Mods ......... putting that aside, I still feel that the appeals process heavily favours the Mods, evidenced by the amount of unsuccessful appeals that go through DRP.

Beasty wrote: »

Yes you may have a little more insight after some of my comments. They may well "validate" your own concerns. I simply do not share those concerns.

That's fine, being on "opposite sides of the fence" probably means we will never agree with eachother on a number of aspects of Boards .......... that's why we have threads like this one and a Feedback Forum so we can at least engage in discussion on a level playing field.

JRant · 23-01-2016 2:56pm

Would it be worth introducing a "cooling off" period to allow posters approach the DRP in a more constructive manner?

I also think adding a predefined checklist, similar to the 'Build your own PC' one may cut down on a lot of unnecessary back and forth exchanges. Something along the lines of:
• Have you contacted the Mod in question? Y/N
• Link to the offending post -
•etc
This would have to be in the OP of any DRP.

For the most part I think the DRP works fine. What seems to be missing is a connect between the mods/cmods/admins and the site users. Yes, the mods are volunteers and help keep the site going but the users are also volunteers and a vital cog in the machine that seems to glossed over. The user is the "product" here, without them there is no revenue.
I'd love to see a "Talk to" category for mods/CMods/Admins to share their experiences, what it really entails and why did do it. It may remove some of this "Us v's Them" mentality that seems to be prevalent at present.

MadDog76 · 23-01-2016 7:59pm

looksee wrote: »

Many mods deal with very active, sometimes contentious forums who have a great deal to do and are trying to keep track while doing a day job and keeping up with the topics. Just because of the number of reported posts and research they have to do, there is going to be the odd case that is miss-called. It doesn't really happen all that often and other mods and C mods are keeping an eye on situations. DRP is an effort to be fair and transparent - and requires an amount of effort and time that very, very few other sites are willing to offer.

I do appreciate the time and effort Mods put into this site, it's not a "job" I'd take on purely because of the amount of time required to do the job properly .......... that said, the fairness and transparency in DRP is what's being questioned (by me anyway) right now.

looksee wrote: »

There has to be a certain amount of latitude as some forums need one approach, and others need a different approach, there is not - beyond a few basic 'don't be a dick', don't use the site for advertising and spamming etc - a 'one size fits all' way of modding. And to be honest, mods are not going to give up their time just to be administrators of a set of rules that they have no flexibility on. Mods want 'their' forums to be effective, busy and interesting places, and they have a certain amount of latitude to achieve that. But they can't just do as they please either, they have to be fair and reasonable.

Of course certain Forums will require a different Mod approach than others but I don't think it's too much to ask for a bit more consistency within the individual Forums themselves, ie. a Poster may post a close-to-the-bone post in After Hours (for example) which will be accepted, then another Poster may post a similarly close-to-the-bone post the following day in After Hours believing that it's fine as the other post was acceptable only to find him/herself infracted/banned because the Mod on duty that day "says so!".
It leaves Posters unsure of where they stand exactly ......... it's ok to "have the craic" ........ sometimes ......... maybe ......... depending?

looksee wrote: »

The reason that most DRTs are not overturned is because mostly the mods get it right. If they have made an ill-judged call then the DRP is there to correct it, and that does happen sometimes.

That's a personal opinion which is open to debate .......... hence this very thread.

looksee wrote: »

The system of checks and balances may not be very obvious to other posters but it is there, and Boards has a much more open and equitable basis than most other sites. However the buck has to stop somewhere and whether you agree with a particular decision or not, it stops with DRP.

The buck does have to stop somewhere and DRP is the place for it to stop ......... however, the purpose of this thread is to collect Feedback in an attempt to identify any problems with DRP and, hopefully, improve upon the appeals process.

MadDog76 · 23-01-2016 8:05pm

JRant wrote: »

I'd love to see a "Talk to" category for mods/CMods/Admins to share their experiences, what it really entails and why did do it. It may remove some of this "Us v's Them" mentality that seems to be prevalent at present.

In fairness, the "Us versus Them" mentality is not helped when certain Mods post "That's just a load of rubbish!!" in response to a Poster offering his/her Feedback ........ what message gets sent out when a low-quality post like that from a Mod gets multiple "Thanks" from his/her fellow Mods??

looksee · 23-01-2016 10:53pm

MadDog76 wrote: »

I do appreciate the time and effort Mods put into this site, it's not a "job" I'd take on purely because of the amount of time required to do the job properly .......... that said, the fairness and transparency in DRP is what's being questioned (by me anyway) right now.

Of course certain Forums will require a different Mod approach than others but I don't think it's too much to ask for a bit more consistency within the individual Forums themselves, ie. a Poster may post a close-to-the-bone post in After Hours (for example) which will be accepted, then another Poster may post a similarly close-to-the-bone post the following day in After Hours believing that it's fine as the other post was acceptable only to find him/herself infracted/banned because the Mod on duty that day "says so!".
It leaves Posters unsure of where they stand exactly ......... it's ok to "have the craic" ........ sometimes ......... maybe ......... depending?

That's a personal opinion which is open to debate .......... hence this very thread.

The buck does have to stop somewhere and DRP is the place for it to stop ......... however, the purpose of this thread is to collect Feedback in an attempt to identify any problems with DRP and, hopefully, improve upon the appeals process.

I don't disagree with you there. I appreciate that this is about feedback on the DRP, and I agree I got slightly side tracked into discussing modding rather than DRP. I was not particularly saying that mods are 'overworked' I was making the point that in a high volume forum there are going to be a few slip ups, even if mods were paid professionals there would be occasional debatable decisions.

When Cmods and Admins agree with a decision it does not mean they are 'siding' with the mod, they have considered it and ultimately accepted that the mod got it right. Yes, it is a matter of opinion, it has to be. When the Cmods and Admins agree with a decision or, indeed, overturn it, that has to be the end of it, the buck stops with the admins.

If you have issues with what are levels of acceptable posting in a particular forum, maybe request a feedback thread within that forum to discuss it. (Though the mods would be fully entitled to refuse it, and having discussed it you may end up not agreeing).

As you said, this is about the transparency and fairness of the process of dispute resolution, which goes way beyond the detail of a particular incident; do you have suggestions on how to improve that transparency and fairness?

One suggestion might be to mark resolved threads as Decision Upheld or Overturned so that it can be seen that some appeals by posters are successful.

Collecting feedback on the Dispute Resolution Process

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