The New Normal for the Premier League?

Harry Palmr

I see Watford are looking to buy out the loan of Juan Iturbe for about 11 million quid at the end of the season. While his post Verona has not yet worked out the mere fact that a promoted side like Watford can think about this deal is just another example of how clubs outside the usual suspects can now go after pretty anyone that is not in the established A grade player class or marked out as a potential superstar and likely to be bought by one of the CL giants.

If the Premier League isn't competitive enough already (and this season suggests it is for some clubs!) then its surely only going to get more so. The biggest PL sides are for all their money hamstrung by not being seen as comparable to the Spanish giants, PSG and Bayern Munich in particular with a few ropey seasons in European football re-enforcing that vibe so many of the very best players may continue to play on the Continent while the middle ranking sides in England will surely close the gap on them with the new money.

More hard games right through the season may end up damaging CL progress to boot - while the aforementioned can rest half a side for domestic game and still win three points most weeks that cannot be assumed in the Prem any more.

Soups123

I don't believe the league is getting stronger I believe its getting weaker, PL teams are spending above average across Europe for Grade B type players.

With one or two exceptions the top bracket of players are playing outside the PL right now.

Iused2likebusts

The better teams are staying stagnant or getting worse. The teams below the traditional top 6 are getting better. People will argue the bigger teams have it tough but the truth is they just aren't that good. The likes of barca and bayern would steamroll the likes of palace stoke west ham Southampton in home games. England's finest find it a struggle against these teams by and large.

cj maxx

The 'sky' money and the way its equally divided will mean mid table clubs do have money to spend , and so the league should be more competitive,, unlike france, spain etc where its a 1/2 horse race.
Not better , just more competitive.

The league is without doubt more competitive.

The top teams are getting weaker though. This is despite spending ridiculous money. That's the funny bit about it.

Great to see a more competitive league. Would love to see Leicester hang on in there and earn a top 4 spot

kevthegaff

cjmc wrote: »

The 'sky' money and the way its equally divided will mean mid table clubs do have money to spend , and so the league should be more competitive,, unlike france, spain etc where its a 1/2 horse race.
Not better , just more competitive.

Better for us as fans

SantryRed

Watford are looking to pay 1m for a 6month loan with the option to buy in the summer for 11m.

Win win for Watford, the guy looked like he had it all a couple of years ago, really hasn't worked out at Roma though. Supposedly the Pozzo family have been interested in him for ages and wanted to bring him to Udinese a few years ago too.

Dirty Dingus McGee

I would say what is likely to happen with the new TV deal is that premier league teams will end up paying well over the odds for mediocre players.Any player who has anything about them will want to play in the champions league which in each major league in Europe there are about 6 teams in contention for the champions league places in each country and all the high quality players will play for those 6 teams in each of the major European leagues and despite having bucket loads of money to spend in England the mid table sides will just end up paying a huge premium for non elite players.

I'd say clubs in europe were licking there lips when the premier league TV right deal was announced as they can ask for extortionate amounts of money from Premier League teams and get it for their mediocre players and then easily replace the players they have sold on for much less money.

8-10

Soups123 wrote: »

With one or two exceptions the top bracket of players are playing outside the PL right now.

This has been the case since the PL started.

mikeym

Money is destroying the Premier League.

Over the years some Clubs in the relegation zone get panicky and sack the manager only to bring in a worse one.

Clubs are desperate for the Tv money thats due next season and they will do anything to stay up.

The likes of Southampton and West Ham were knocked out of the Europa League qualifers and they dont care.

mikeym

mikeym wrote: »

Money is destroying the Premier League.

Over the years some Clubs in the relegation zone get panicky and sack the manager only to bring in a worse one.

Clubs are desperate for the Tv money thats due next season and they will do anything to stay up.

The likes of Southampton and West Ham were knocked out of the Europa League qualifers and they dont care.

Yup, trophies don't really matter to most clubs once the money is coming in

dfx-

I think the big teams have fallen back to the pack. And the pack is hit and miss as ever. Swansea, Stoke, West Ham, Crystal Palace all signed well supposedly, but are patchy at best

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I would say what is likely to happen with the new TV deal is that premier league teams will end up paying well over the odds for mediocre players.Any player who has anything about them will want to play in the champions league which in each major league in Europe there are about 6 teams in contention for the champions league places in each country and all the high quality players will play for those 6 teams in each of the major European leagues and despite having bucket loads of money to spend in England the mid table sides will just end up paying a huge premium for non elite players.

I'd say clubs in europe were licking there lips when the premier league TV right deal was announced as they can ask for extortionate amounts of money from Premier League teams and get it for their mediocre players and then easily replace the players they have sold on for much less money.

When you look at the money spent by Liverpool, United, Chelsea and Manchester City and you see some of their games, especially against each other, you wonder how they spent it. City are often rudderless and the less said about that United v Liverpool first half this season, the better.

gosplan

dfx- wrote: »

I think the big teams have fallen back to the pack. And the pack is hit and miss as ever. Swansea, Stoke, West Ham, Crystal Palace all signed well supposedly, but are patchy at best



When you look at the money spent by Liverpool, United, Chelsea and Manchester City and you see some of their games, especially against each other, you wonder how they spent it. City are often rudderless and the less said about that United v Liverpool first half this season, the better.

I think it's just an anomaly tbh. It'll correct itself.

1: arsenal are arsenal - no change.
2: City have spent loads but haven't found any consistency yet
3: Utd have spent so much in the last few years that a huge amount of it had to be wasted
4: Jose has lost the ability to spend money well
5: Rodgers had wasted hundreds of millions

Put Ancelotti in charge of Chelsea, Guardolia in charge of City and leave Klopp at Liverpool. Give them all 18 months and it'd all turn around.



I think another point for consideration is that there's now no English player that could remotely be considered world class. This impacts the top teams a lot.

Even just sticking Gerrard & Carragher in the current pool squad, Scholes, Rooney and Rio in Utd, Terry, Lampard and Cole in Chelsea etc would make a massive difference.

Gaygooner

Rodgers didn't waste millions- the Liverpool transfer committee did

NIMAN

The main aim now of the majority of English football clubs is to stay in the EPL (and get there for those not in it). Its the Holy Grail.

They don't care about the FA Cup any more, its more or less dead, with even mid table and lower teams playing weakened sides in it to concentrate on staying in the EPL.

The EL is even a hindrance to a lot of them I'd say, as staying in the EPL > doing well in the EL (although since UEFA introduced a CL spot for winning the EL, things might change).

The 'Sky' money over recent years has allowed a lot of fairly average clubs along the level of WBA, Villa, Southampton etc to outspend many much more prestigious Spanish, Italian and German clubs for players. And this can only get more prevalent as the Sky money increased.

It is definitely a bubble by all definitions of the word, but shows no sign of bursting.

garra

RoboKlopp wrote: »

The league is without doubt more competitive.

The top teams are getting weaker though. This is despite spending ridiculous money. That's the funny bit about it.

Great to see a more competitive league. Would love to see Leicester hang on in there and earn a top 4 spot

Interesting observation about the top teams regressing this season. Perhaps there is an optimum amount of money that clubs should be spending, above which the returns from the clubs & players is not enhanced. If so I believe we have reached and exceeded that saturation point in the UK already.
Makes a joke of any fans demanding more money to be spent.

Liam O

dfx- wrote: »

I think the big teams have fallen back to the pack. And the pack is hit and miss as ever. Swansea, Stoke, West Ham, Crystal Palace all signed well supposedly, but are patchy at best



When you look at the money spent by Liverpool, United, Chelsea and Manchester City and you see some of their games, especially against each other, you wonder how they spent it. City are often rudderless and the less said about that United v Liverpool first half this season, the better.

It makes sense tbh. Teams like these have performed well adding 2 or 3 players to a solid core that would be there for 4 or 5 years. All of them now seem to be going for a scattergun approach to signing players. This means that they are in perpetual transition. Look at how much better City look with Aguero and Silva than when they are missing. Look at United trying to incorporate 7 or 8 new players into the first team this season and they are stalling, though that has something to do with injuries as well.

This is why I thought Arsenal would be the team to beat this season but the injuries and the lack of one or two players has slightly hamstrung them again.

bucketybuck

garra wrote: »

Interesting observation about the top teams regressing this season. Perhaps there is an optimum amount of money that clubs should be spending, above which the returns from the clubs & players is not enhanced. If so I believe we have reached and exceeded that saturation point in the UK already.
Makes a joke of any fans demanding more money to be spent.

There is no saturation point, its simply that the top clubs have spent their money horribly.

Considering the sums involved the likes of City and Chelsea should be untouchable in a domestic sense, they had the guts of a decade where they were free from any financial constraints and were able to chase players and offer wages far beyond what other PL teams could dream of matching. And what do they have to show for it? Squads full of dross and filler and the likes of John Terry still propping up defences.

Chelsea chopping and changing managers, Wenger being too cautious, Fergie neglecting his midfield and not capitalising on those CL finals, the big four had the money and opportunity to position themselves similar to how Bayern are in the German league but the sad fact is that they ****ed it up. And now with more money flooding into the PL the other teams have a chance for a little more parity.

garra

bucketybuck wrote: »

There is no saturation point, its simply that the top clubs have spent their money horribly.

Considering the sums involved the likes of City and Chelsea should be untouchable in a domestic sense, they had the guts of a decade where they were free from any financial constraints and were able to chase players and offer wages far beyond what other PL teams could dream of matching. And what do they have to show for it? Squads full of dross and filler and the likes of John Terry still propping up defences.

Chelsea chopping and changing managers, Wenger being too cautious, Fergie neglecting his midfield and not capitalising on those CL finals, the big four had the money and opportunity to position themselves similar to how Bayern are in the German league but the sad fact is that they ****ed it up. And now with more money flooding into the PL the other teams have a chance for a little more parity.

Whether or not there is a saturation point for the top clubs at which on-pitch performance is not enhanced by big wages/tranfers, I think this season clearly demonstrates that a team's performance in the PL is not strictly linked to the money it spends on players/wages.

NIMAN

I honestly think that the more you pay players the less they work, so paying top dollar is no guarantee of success.

Do we really think all those players at the top EPL clubs are giving their all? I severely doubt it. I mean what exactly is YaYa Toure bringing to Man City to justify £250,000 after tax each week?

When a player arrives at a new club they often bust a gut for a few weeks/months, then they soon realise they don't have to try that hard each week. Go through the motions, the wages are going into the bank either way.

bucketybuck

NIMAN wrote: »

I honestly think that the more you pay players the less they work, so paying top dollar is no guarantee of success.

Somebody tell Ronaldo that.

dfx-

Liam O wrote: »

It makes sense tbh. Teams like these have performed well adding 2 or 3 players to a solid core that would be there for 4 or 5 years. All of them now seem to be going for a scattergun approach to signing players. This means that they are in perpetual transition. Look at how much better City look with Aguero and Silva than when they are missing. Look at United trying to incorporate 7 or 8 new players into the first team this season and they are stalling, though that has something to do with injuries as well.

This is why I thought Arsenal would be the team to beat this season but the injuries and the lack of one or two players has slightly hamstrung them again.

Teams can't risk giving players time anymore though. Di Maria comes in and Di Maria goes out. Cuadrado comes in and just as quickly Cuadrado goes out. Dimichelis in, doesn't work out. Mangala in, doesn't work out in a season. Otamendi comes in, jury out. Could be names for any club.

With that sort of churn of players, of course it'll be unpredictable but it won't be stable.