Bizarre bidding on property

jos_kel

Long story short, we saw a property, just on the market, we liked it so put a firm bid on 5k below asking price.
EA was sure it would be seriously considered but vendors said they would out for better offers. Perhaps our attractive offer has given them the notion that they can get more than guide price, which is their privilege, no issue there.
However a few days ago, the EA rang to inform me of this.
Then 30 minutes he rang again saying that he had rang around other viewers and someone had raised our bid by 3k.
I smelt a rat, so I got a friend to ring today expressing an interest and enquire about viewing it and in padding ask what the highest is?
The highest bid is still ours? Should I ring the EA and query this? Where I work this is called "Market Manipulation" and has severe ramifications for the perpetrator.
He could say, oh, I never put the bid to the vendor yet.
But that wouldn't be credible because from both mine and the EA's perspective the highest bid was from someone other than me.

JimmyMW

jos_kel wrote: »

Long story short, we saw a property, just on the market, we liked it so put a firm bid on 5k below asking price.
EA was sure it would be seriously considered but vendors said they would out for better offers. Perhaps our attractive offer has given them the notion that they can get more than guide price, which is their privilege, no issue there.
However a few days ago, the EA rang to inform me of this.
Then 30 minutes he rang again saying that he had rang around other viewers and someone had raised our bid by 3k.
I smelt a rat, so I got a friend to ring today expressing an interest and enquire about viewing it and in padding ask what the highest is?
The highest bid is still ours? Should I ring the EA and query this? Where I work this is called "Market Manipulation" and has severe ramifications for the perpetrator.
He could say, oh, I never put the bid to the vendor yet.
But that wouldn't be credible because from both mine and the EA's perspective the highest bid was from someone other than me.

You can report him to the NPSRA but from what I have heard its a waste of time, just stand your ground with your bid and every time you are going to make a bid with this auctioneer use a friend to sus out the real story as you have. Information such as auctioneers tactics is much better to you than someone getting a slap on the back or the hand especially if you want the house.

jos_kel

JimmyMW wrote: »

You can report him to the NPSRA but from what I have heard its a waste of time, just stand your ground with your bid and every time you are going to make a bid with this auctioneer use a friend to sus out the real story as you have. Information such as auctioneers tactics is much better to you than someone getting a slap on the back or the hand especially if you want the house.

Could I cheekily call his bluff by lowering our bid? Then he can read between the lines himself. Although I think you're right, we know that we're the highest bidder, we don't want to give the game away.

marklazarcovic

bid the asking price or move on,they may even want more,you could be playing this game quite a while a miss something else

jos_kel

marklazarcovic wrote: »

bid the asking price or move on,they may even want more,you could be playing this game quite a while a miss something else

That was almost what the EA said to me if you stopped at "bid the asking price or move on,they may even want more"

MarkAnthony

marklazarcovic wrote: »

bid the asking price or move on,they may even want more,you could be playing this game quite a while a miss something else

Just bid on that too. Bidding, even putting down booking deposits doesn't hold anyone to anything. While I'm not going to ignite the debate on multiple booking deposits, certainly looking and bidding else where is one sure way to get the current vendors to take it or leave it.

jos_kel

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Just bid on that too. Bidding, even putting down booking deposits doesn't hold anyone to anything. While I'm not going to ignite the debate on multiple booking deposits, certainly looking and bidding else where is one sure way to get the current vendors to take it or leave it.

I don't really think the EA has a handle on things at all. When I made the initial bid 5k below guide price. I asked him what were the expectations of the vendor.
The EA selling our house told us there are 2 strategies,
1. set the guide price lower than what you'll expect, to generate interest and momentum and hope it rises to what you'll accept
OR
2. Set the price exactly or maybe a little higher than what you'll accept, so only serious viewers will get involved.

The EA of the house we're purchasing said that the expectations were pretty much at the guide price level (2. above) and the fact that we were sale agreed and could move fast, they may accept less.
Now, if the EA is to be believed they're holding out for 15k above the market price. (Strategy 1 above) and 20k above our bid.
Maybe this is just another "Market Manipulation" attempt by the EA to get us up to the Guide Price and even beyond.

dori_dormer

Leave your bid where it is. If there is no other bidder and they really want to sell, they'll get back to you at some stage. There is no point bidding against yourself, you'll just look like you fell for the phantom bidder and they'll use the same trick again in a few days.

Lowering your bid will get you nowhere either if they are looking for more money.

Keep looking at properties in the area and bid on any you find equally or more attractive than this property.

Seth Brundle

Property is not selling at the moment. My own EA is doing next to nothing business-wise.
I would make the offer conditional that you want to spend Christmas knowing one way or the other - both sides agree on the bid by Monday or you walk!

The_Conductor

kbannon wrote: »

Property is not selling at the moment. My own EA is doing next to nothing business-wise.
I would make the offer conditional that you want to spend Christmas knowing one way or the other - both sides agree on the bid by Monday or you walk!

I'd echo what kbannon has said.
It may be localised in nature- but significant tracts of the market are just sitting there. I don't know the reason- perhaps when the new year comes and lending institutions have a fresh batch of approvals they can issue outside of the restrictions- things might loosen up somewhat- however, its almost like someone has totally gummed up the works at the moment.

CaoimheSquee

It could have been something as simple as the latest bid had not been logged on the system yet - so when your friend called to ask the current bids the person in the office would have checked the file and just gone from that.
The vendor is free to change their mind at any time as to what their expectations are and the EA has to go along with that no matter how erratic or unrealistic it may be. They advise but a lot of the time are not listened to!

CaoimheSquee

Also the PSRA are outsourcing the complaints and auditing in 2016 to help get through all the volumes.
Complain - if there is dodgy bidding going on they can check this very easily.

Henry Ford III

Doesn't make a lot of sense.

EA acting up over €3000 - an extra c.€30 onto his commission, versus perhaps losing the sale?

superman28

In my experience it is pointless to think that the EA is making up bids,, just offer what you think the house is worth and walk away when it is above this amount,, If you are serious about a house make a serious offer..

Some sellers are micky mouse bidders and don't even have mortgage approval so put this to the EA and mention that you have full aproval and would like to know what the seller thinks of your offer,, if it comes back (as you are below the asking price) you could say look,, il give the asking price but only if they take it off the market.. I looked for 9 months and you loose patience for fannying about..

CreepingDeath

kbannon wrote: »

Property is not selling at the moment. My own EA is doing next to nothing business-wise.
I would make the offer conditional that you want to spend Christmas knowing one way or the other - both sides agree on the bid by Monday or you walk!

+1

Leaving a bid sitting there sets the minimum price for other bidders.
Make the bid conditional... you will retract it say next Wednesday if they're not interested.

In the same phone call, also enquire if there are any other similar properties from that estate agent if that bid isn't accepted. Just to let them know they can't mess you around or you'll walk.

Michael D Not Higgins

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Doesn't make a lot of sense.

EA acting up over €3000 - an extra c.€30 onto his commission, versus perhaps losing the sale?

More likely the vendors wouldn't settle for less than asking and he's pushing the bidders as close as he can to coax the vendors to settle just the smallest bit.

Henry Ford III

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

More likely the vendors wouldn't settle for less than asking and he's pushing the bidders as close as he can to coax the vendors to settle just the smallest bit.

1 bid though. Would make much more sense if there were several.

jos_kel

CaoimheSquee wrote: »

It could have been something as simple as the latest bid had not been logged on the system yet - so when your friend called to ask the current bids the person in the office would have checked the file and just gone from that.
The vendor is free to change their mind at any time as to what their expectations are and the EA has to go along with that no matter how erratic or unrealistic it may be. They advise but a lot of the time are not listened to!

I thought that too, but surely 2 days was long enough to update it on the system.
What if the friend was genuine and made what they thought was a higher bid, but was still lower than the one told to me by the EA.
In any case, another friend is due to express an interest next week ;-) Let's see if their system is updated by then.

jos_kel

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Doesn't make a lot of sense.

EA acting up over €3000 - an extra c.€30 onto his commission, versus perhaps losing the sale?

No. The EA is obviously trying to get me to bid the guide price and even higher, so as to close the deal, because obviously the vendors do not wish to sell at 5k below guide. The commission as you say, in the scheme of things is negligible. For the vendor, 5k is more important.

jos_kel

CreepingDeath wrote: »

+1

Leaving a bid sitting there sets the minimum price for other bidders.
Make the bid conditional... you will retract it say next Wednesday if they're not interested.

In the same phone call, also enquire if there are any other similar properties from that estate agent if that bid isn't accepted. Just to let them know they can't mess you around or you'll walk.

Good idea. Before doing this, I'll get another friend to check again as to what the highest bid is just in case we are not the highest bidder after all.
Retracting a bid that's not the highest anyway would be a bit comical.

mickdw

I would have thought it was the EA job to get as much money for his client as possible.
I think its a given that they will attempt to play bidders off against each other whether they are real or imagined.
Equally I feel any buyer needs to know their own mind, bid and stick to it.

jos_kel

jos_kel wrote: »

Long story short, we saw a property, just on the market, we liked it so put a firm bid on 5k below asking price.

Some vendors, when they get a good bid just after putting a property on the market, feel that if they wait longer they are bound to get an even better one.

I think that might be the issue here. Withdraw your bid and they will begin to worry.

jos_kel

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Some vendors, when they get a good bid just after putting a property on the market, feel that if they wait longer they are bound to get an even better one.

I think that might be the issue here. Withdraw your bid and they will begin to worry.

Definitely agree.
Thinking about withdrawing our bid but the catch is a 'phantom' bidder may be the highest bid. Will check this again next week.
But if we withdraw our bid EA is likely to say well we don't have the highest bid anyway. Highly unlikely that he's going to admit that we are actually the highest bidder.

Seth Brundle

jos_kel wrote: »

But if we withdraw our bid EA is likely to say well we don't have the highest bid anyway. Highly unlikely that he's going to admit that we are actually the highest bidder.

Hence making it conditional. You're not withdrawing per se, you setting a time limit on your offer. Also mention the positive aspects to your offer, e.g. mortgage approved, ready to move, etc.

baldbear

jos_kel wrote: »

Definitely agree.
Thinking about withdrawing our bid but the catch is a 'phantom' bidder may be the highest bid. Will check this again next week.
But if we withdraw our bid EA is likely to say well we don't have the highest bid anyway. Highly unlikely that he's going to admit that we are actually the highest bidder.

You need to forget about that property and move on. Don't let your heart rule your head. It could drag out for ages.The EA might be trying to get the asking price for the vendor & not stop until they get it. We recently went 4 k under asking & 3k more than other bidder. Vendor wanted asking we said that's us done. The house is still on the market 3 months later.

jos_kel

baldbear wrote: »

You need to forget about that property and move on. Don't let your heart rule your head. It could drag out for ages.The EA might be trying to get the asking price for the vendor & not stop until they get it. We recently went 4 k under asking & 3k more than other bidder. Vendor wanted asking we said that's us done. The house is still on the market 3 months later.

Yeah, think we'll forget about it. Just to add a friend rang the office this morning and the highest bid was still ours.
An hour later I rang the actual EA (who has a different number than the office - his mobile).
I was going to say we'd make one conditional final offer and at the same time query why the office was telling us something different.
Before I got that far, he said there had been activity on Friday and the bidding had gone up another 4k.
I wonder is he just trying to throw us off the scent.
Seems odd the Office are that much out of sync with him.
He also seemed happy for us to pull out. Eventhough we're not interested at this stage, I told him to keep us posted.
I wonder has the phantom bidder now gone 7k above our bid and we're still the highest bidder. Conspiracy theory, I know.

Turtle_

jos_kel wrote: »

Yeah, think we'll forget about it. Just to add a friend rang the office this morning and the highest bid was still ours.
An hour later I rang the actual EA (who has a different number than the office - his mobile).
I was going to say we'd make one conditional final offer and at the same time query why the office was telling us something different.
Before I got that far, he said there had been activity on Friday and the bidding had gone up another 4k.
I wonder is he just trying to throw us off the scent.
Seems odd the Office are that much out of sync with him.
He also seemed happy for us to pull out. Eventhough we're not interested at this stage, I told him to keep us posted.
I wonder has the phantom bidder now gone 7k above our bid and we're still the highest bidder. Conspiracy theory, I know.

Or maybe all your mates ringing looking for info on it makes him think there's more interest than there is. Seriously, ring him and ask if he has any other properties like it - you're sale agreed and ready to go.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

OP, we were in a similar boat to you. We increased our bid slightly 2 or 3 times to match 'another bidder', yet when friends rang in our bid was still the highest offer the EA quoted.

The EA was faffing us about, not returning calls etc. so we decided we would make one more offer and if it wasn't accepted we would walk away. We rang the EA and told them our offer stood until 5pm the next day, after which our offer would be withdrawn.

That same evening we had our offer accepted and the mystery bidder disappeared.
Coincidence? Hardly :rolleyes:

If you've decided to let the property go anyway, make one last offer and give the EA a deadline of 24-48hours to accept your offer.

Best of luck.

jos_kel

Danica Sharp Manager wrote: »

OP, we were in a similar boat to you. We increased our bid slightly 2 or 3 times to match 'another bidder', yet when friends rang in our bid was still the highest offer the EA quoted.

The EA was faffing us about, not returning calls etc. so we decided we would make one more offer and if it wasn't accepted we would walk away. We rang the EA and told them our offer stood until 5pm the next day, after which our offer would be withdrawn.

That same evening we had our offer accepted and the mystery bidder disappeared.
Coincidence? Hardly :rolleyes:

If you've decided to let the property go anyway, make one last offer and give the EA a deadline of 24-48hours to make an offer.

Best of luck.

Excuse my french but aren't they f*****s?
Actually we're very interesting in the property.
But there are a number of things.
Current bid (if it's to be believed) is slightly out of our comfort zone.
Even if we stretched it, can we trust him. Rhetorical question. No.
Was thinking what we could do, is play him at his own game and make a higher bid and say we wan't it accepted within 2 days, and then we can pull out anyway.
This will then leave just the 'phantom' bidders.

April 73

The office is telling people that yours is the highest bid & the EA is telling you on the phone that there is another higher bid than yours?
Has he put that in writing to you? Ask for confirmation in writing on where the bids are right now.
If it's a phantom bid he will be much less likely to put it in writing.
We bought a house last year & made sure there was an email trail for everything.

listermint

jos_kel wrote: »

Excuse my french but aren't they f*****s?
Actually we're very interesting in the property.
But there are a number of things.
Current bid (if it's to be believed) is slightly out of our comfort zone.
Even if we stretched it, can we trust him. Rhetorical question. No.
Was thinking what we could do, is play him at his own game and make a higher bid and say we wan't it accepted within 2 days, and then we can pull out anyway.
This will then leave just the 'phantom' bidders.

He is not your friend he is there for the Vendor. He will play you like a fool to get as much money as he can out of you.

Bid with your head be stern and as indicated above put a deadline on it as you are ready to move elsewhere.

put the ball actively in his court and express no affection for the property as they will use that as a tool. This is a business transaction (thats how they will see it)