Leaving work on time frowned upon. Mod warning post 1

experiMental

There are areas where you will be rewarded for working fast, and you will have some negotiation power over your working hours. For example, this applies to IT maintenance and cloud technologies. I don't know other industries where it happens, but if you are in an industry that focuses on getting more billable hours, instead of delivering more valuable things, then either :
- keep going
- leave for a job where you have more negotiation powers for your working hours
or try to reform the way you are approaching your job, and persuade your managers and co-workers to follow your example.

Dr_Bill

I remember walking out of the office once at 5pm at the end of the week and my manager at the time asked why time do you call this & I politely replied "Friday" and headed for the pub!

I think there has to be a balance ,I rather have happy employees who will work their socks off when required and also know that there is a degree of flexibility for any mini emergencies, trips to doctors and dentists etc without using up half days of annual leave. So long as there is a little give & take and nobody is taking the piss.

chewed

Dr_Bill wrote: »

I remember walking out of the office once at 5pm at the end of the week and my manager at the time asked why time do you call this & I politely replied "Friday" and headed for the pub!

you should have said it was "beer o'clock"!

sashafierce

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BreadnBuddha

sashafierce wrote: »

Friday was a seriously quiet day, I had very little to do all day

[snip]

Getting fed up of it.

That's a double edged sword.

A few more quiet days with little to do all day and getting pissy when there's a chance to get something done at the end of a slack day is more than enough for many employers to start asking themselves if they really need you there.

For the sake of getting an hour in until 6pm? I know what I'd prefer, on either side of that table.

sashafierce

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the_pen_turner

i would have stayed the 30 minutes

BreadnBuddha

sashafierce wrote: »

I'm not really sure what u mean, u think I should of stayed? I'm not gonna stay longer to do next weeks work and not be paid for it to come in Monday and have nothing to do.

I would. You expressed an interest in a management role eventually in your thread last month if I'm not mistaken. Complaining to your line manager now that there's not enough work for you and then turning down the suggestion that you might want to stick around when there is, well, it's probably not giving much of a good impression really. Of course, it's entirely up to you to decide. Maybe you just wanted to have a little whinge about it, I don't know. I can only go on what you've written here.

sashafierce

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haveringchick

sashafierce wrote: »

Two different threads. I dunno why you go looking at other threads like its two different issues. I'm on the topic of staying late here not about what career I want in the future. Staying late of a Fri night isn't as simple when you have plans or face a long commute.

I think what they mean is, you don't seem to be concerned that there was not enough work for you to do, either on Friday or apparently on Monday,
Then when a bit of work did come in in the afternoon, you declined a suggestion from the boss that you'd still least make s start on it
If there's not enough work for you, and your unwilling to do the bit there is, why would they pay you a weeks wages? Thats crazy.

BreadnBuddha

sashafierce wrote: »

Two different threads. I dunno why you go looking at other threads like its two different issues. I'm on the topic of staying late here not about what career I want in the future. Staying late of a Fri night isn't as simple when you have plans or face a long commute.

Fair enough. You're not under any duress, either way.

If you're to place your post in the context of this thread, my comments stand.

If you're just having a moan about your boss there's not much can be said, especially if you expect people to forget what you've previously written.

sashafierce

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Arbiter of Good Taste

seamus wrote: »

No, I wouldn't say it's a US multinational thing. A lot of professions are rife with it. In accountancy and law for example, trainees are encouraged to put in extra hours without recording them because it keeps the company's overtime bill down, but also reduces the hours billed to the clients.

Have you actually ever worked in either of these professions? Because if you did, you would know that (1) recording extra hours does not equal being paid overtime, (2) the firms need to know the hours it takes to do a job to be able to cost fee quotes and actually predict their overheads, and (3) firms have no problem billing their clients. Whatever made you think they want to keep their revenues down?

seamus

Yep, I've seen it first hand in accountancy firms. Recording extra hours does not necessarily equal being paid overtime, unless you do it officially. Where everything is recorded on centralised systems, there's no way for an individual manager to prevent overtime from automatically accruing in the system, or to take overtime away from an employee without paying it out. But they can game the system by telling their trainees to informally write down the overtime and then they write the cost directly onto the client's bill. Thus, the company makes money and pays out no overtime.

The more common scenario is that a fixed fee has been agreed for the work done, but the billable hours exceeds that. In that scenario the company pays twice - to write off any billable hours above the agreed fee and pay out overtime/time in lieu for the trainees who have been working on it. On your reports this looks really bad - it looks like you way underpitched for the work. So instead have your trainees do the work and not bill it to the client. During working hours it gets billed to an internal code, and overtime just doesn't get recorded at all.

Unless they've really lost their arse on a piece of work, a firm will often stick to a fixed fee because there's the promise of further work down the line. Exceed your agreed fee and you risk losing future fees. But it's also used as a PR chip too, claiming that a piece of work was done in X trainee hours, when your rivals couldn't match that.

All that said, it's not something happening for every employee all the time. As you quite rightly point out, if everyone was gaming the system, financial planning would be next to impossible. Plenty of managers and employees don't care about appearances. I've seen managers write off 50% or more of the hours billed to clients, and trainees with overtime banks of 600+ hours.

hardCopy

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Have you actually ever worked in either of these professions? Because if you did, you would know that (1) recording extra hours does not equal being paid overtime, (2) the firms need to know the hours it takes to do a job to be able to cost fee quotes and actually predict their overheads, and (3) firms have no problem billing their clients. Whatever made you think they want to keep their revenues down?

It's called Ghosting Hours.

Every consulting/contracting firm condemns it and warns fresh graduates against the temptation and pressure to do it but it still happens all the time.

Usually because it suits an individual partner or manager and their relationship with the client.

http://practicalchangemanagement.blogspot.ie/2011/10/negative-impact-of-ghosting-hours.html

It's often because somebody made a balls of an estimate or time was lost due to a mistake or the bid was won mainly on price.

C4Kid

Hi All,

I am the OP, just thought I would update you all on the situation. I have been coming in roughly at 7:55 and leaving at 4:35-40 most days for the past few months.

Recently I was offered a permanent contract and I have accepted it. There has been no more said to me regarding the above however I am always on the lookout for other jobs too.

Stheno

C4Kid wrote: »

Hi All,

I am the OP just thought I would update you all on the situation. I have been coming in roughly at 7:55 and leaving at 4:35-40 most days for the past few months.

Recently I was offered a permanent contract and I have accepted it. There has been no more said to me regarding the above however I am always on the lookout for other jobs too.

Congratulations!

KlausFlouride

C4Kid wrote: »

Hi All,
There has been no more said to me regarding the above however I am always on the lookout for other jobs too.

So say we all!

Goat Paddock

A job paying just the average salary and which allows you to leave on time is ideal for some, not everyone is chasing big money and wants to impress by working long hours (in many cases no choice in the matter)

Wanderer2010

Goat Paddock wrote: »

A job paying just the average salary and which allows you to leave on time is ideal for some, not everyone is chasing big money and wants to impress by working long hours (in many cases no choice in the matter)

Exactly. I have never once seen a person who puts in huge amount of hours to get that promotion/raise etc return to "normal" working hours as everything in work has a knock-on effect: Do 12 hours a day, your boss expects the same level of work plus more when you get a promotion they expect the extra work done- 14 hour days. In every other weekend. Before you know it, you have zero work life balance and the very reason you worked hard to get a raise (more money for family time, holidays etc) is lost in all the work and stress.

Said it before, say it again: Whats wrong with 9-5pm and no ambition?