Leaving work on time frowned upon. Mod warning post 1

BelleOfTheBall

Would U not be insured if you go over your time?? seriously I doubt it

Galway K9

Just work extra for the trial and you'll be fine. Keep going and you won't last as he said its a pain I know

Manach

OT that is unpaid should in any normal work environment be an infrequent event and only to meet genunine issues instead of coming under some Project Manager's assumption that OT is a given. However given the OP is starting off, perhaps it might be a advantageous to go with the flow at least for a little while.

Unearthly

I work in a company where everyone leaves on time, or gets paid overtime accordingly.

as it should

OriginV

OriginV wrote: »

Maybe it is because you are on a trial basis and they want you to show that you are willing to put in that extra effort?

Employers are greedy. Very very very unreasonable to expect anyone to do a tap past their clock out time. They don't sound to me like a place where id like to 'last long'.

Probably one of these employers that make full use of scambridge.

JeffKenna

That's why I stay away from flexitime/early starts and early finishes. It just looks bad getting up and leaving at half 4 if people are in the office (even if you were in at 8). Play the game a bit, don't be running out the door as soon as the clock strikes time. Wait on a few minutes. Investing an extra ten minutes a day is well worth it even if you are just flicking on the net for those ten mins.

joebloggs32

This is like the creeping practice of using interns we have inherited from the states. The more people give, the more others will take.

GFT

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

Depends if you are on a salary or get paid by the hour. Paid by the hour you should get compensated for it, salary its part of the job/package.

What bugs me is the self righteousness and self importance of those who offer advice to just walk out without having all the facts or details of what's involved. The level of self worth, self importance and unjustified expectation in this country is something else.

Ok.

So what you are saying is that if you are paid by the hour then you should get paid. However if you're on a salary you should work as many hours as boss dictates and not get paid for the extra hours. You also state that expecting to get paid for working makes a person full of self importance and entitled.

Honestly why not apply for a job in a sweatshop mate, they pay you dick all and work you until exhaustion. Also as a bonus they will beat the self entitlement and self worth out of you. That would make you happy I bet...

Graham

chewed wrote: »

If most of the people are staying late then the company is understaffed or they are all useless at their jobs!

Alternatively there my be peaks in workload during specific periods where everyone digs in followed by lulls in workload where everyone can ease back.

If this is the case, cycles of huge overtime followed by reduced hours would probably not suit most people.

Wanderer78

another case of employers, get over yourself! id personally stick to the working hours. if they want you to work more hours, they can pay you but i understand thats easier said than done. best of luck with it op, you're probably better off not taking my advice. you d sadly probably be sacked.

BreadnBuddha

GFT wrote: »

Plenty of whinging done then.

A sales and marketing job where you walk out the door on time?

They can give you tools, process and products/services to sell. No doubt there's a target and a commission, if it really is a sales and marketing role.

Do well, get paid well. That's how it works and believe it or not, that's what they want from you. You doing well for yourself, pushing for more and EARNING more because of your sales performance is what they need.

Without showing them you have total determination to succeed, you'll be worthless to them. There's no such thing as an entry level, low paid sales and marketing role in which any manager will accept a 9-5 type of attitude. It doesn't fit the profile of a successful sales pro.

I'd have let you go already.

snickerpuss

OP there are plenty of places where you do your work and then go home on time. I would try to find a job in such a workplace. Life is too short for this corporate nonsense. It's just a job. A friend of mine died this year in his early thirties and it's really made me think differently about work. I love what I do and work hard but I go home on time and spend my evenings with friends or family. That's what's important.

Also staying late doesn't equal productivity!!

collie0708

I work as part of a management team were our boss has no problem what time we Finnish as long as all the work is done this encourages us to be more productive the only people who work any extra hours with any kind of regularity are those who can't manage their time.

Wanderer78

snickerpuss wrote: »

OP there are plenty of places where you do your work and then go home on time. I would try to find a job in such a workplace. Life is too short for this corporate nonsense. It's just a job. A friend of mine died this year in his early thirties and it's really made me think differently about work. I love what I do and work hard but I go home on time and spend my evenings with friends or family. That's what's important.

Also staying late doesn't equal productivity!!

best post so far! take note folks! what life is really about!

GFT

GFT wrote: »

We are in serious danger of becoming an Americanised business society. If you want your employees to work extra hours then ****ing pay them. I doubt if any of these bosses work for free themselves.

Excellent post. The Irish bosses really embrace the Americanisation of the workplace and most of them think they are Steve Jobs. Since this recession people are being walked over in jobs. Gas thing is most of these bosses aren't worth a flying shíte. Wouldn't work to warm themselves and certainly wouldn't work for nothing.

GFT

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

A sales and marketing job where you walk out the door on time?

They can give you tools, process and products/services to sell. No doubt there's a target and a commission, if it really is a sales and marketing role.

Do well, get paid well. That's how it works and believe it or not, that's what they want from you. You doing well for yourself, pushing for more and EARNING more because of your sales performance is what they need.

Without showing them you have total determination to succeed, you'll be worthless to them. There's no such thing as an entry level, low paid sales and marketing role in which any manager will accept a 9-5 type of attitude. It doesn't fit the profile of a successful sales pro.

I'd have let you go already.

Not before I'd have ran out the door an hour earlier. Funnily enough I've done sales mate and was always paid well as I done the job and wasn't threatened with the sack for not doing free work. I worked a shift pattern in line with business needs. I worked the requisite hours and got paid accordingly and my boss was nice enough to reward me if he needed me to do extra hours.

I feel sorry for the people you take advantage of.

collie0708

collie0708 wrote: »

I work as part of a management team were our boss has no problem what time we Finnish as long as all the work is done this encourages us to be more productive the only people who work any extra hours with any kind of regularity are those who can't manage their time.

There is the reasonable common sense guys and then there is just bóllockses who love being in charge.

Halloween Jack

Like or loathe unions but they protected workers from this kind of nonsense.

It's funny how the 'you'll be let go early on quiet times' type argument is essentially off the record and totally at management's discretion. It almost exactly mirrors how corporations view taxation, ie pay none, but set up some bogey charity foundation to pay back something to society, again at their own discretion.

If I were you op I'd play ball till you sign on the dotted line and then I'd be leaving at 4:30 in the dot from then on.

imitation

I remember when I started I got a similar warning, honestly it was more about my attitude rather than just leaving on time, I was to be honest, waiting out the day and clock watching.

The thing with an office job is your doing relatively important things that take a chunk of time, be it 20 minutes or 2 hours. If you are in to it as well you tend not to notice the time pass. If you are leaving at bang on the exact time every day then some people will assume your not that into the job.

Thing is some people assume this means your are expected to do massive overtime, I hope thats not the case here, but staying back a few minutes to finish the odd job off for the day really doesnt hurt all that much imo, maybe it adds up to an hours or two a week, sure your not getting paid for it, but in the right company you should hopefully be getting decent wages after a few years, imo a better investment than going home on time and watching the TV.

Wanderer78

imitation wrote: »

I remember when I started I got a similar warning, honestly it was more about my attitude rather than just leaving on time, I was to be honest, waiting out the day and clock watching.

The thing with an office job is your doing relatively important things that take a chunk of time, be it 20 minutes or 2 hours. If you are in to it as well you tend not to notice the time pass. If you are leaving at bang on the exact time every day then some people will assume your not that into the job.

Thing is some people assume this means your are expected to do massive overtime, I hope thats not the case here, but staying back a few minutes to finish the odd job off for the day really doesnt hurt all that much imo, maybe it adds up to an hours or two a week, sure your not getting paid for it, but in the right company you should hopefully be getting decent wages after a few years, imo a better investment than going home on time and watching the TV.

jasus where do i start with this one! firstly most office jobs do not require doing 'relatively important things' period. if you were working for example on the front lines of the emergency services you d be doing 'relatively important things'. office jobs and indeed most jobs aint that important in the grand scheme of life. theyre just jobs, that can be making a lot of money for others. every minute of your time on this planet is important, as you cant get time back. spend your free time doing the things you really wanna do with the people you really wanna be with, because unfortunately its not for ever! oh put down the damn remote! more to life!

ThisRegard

OP, in all seriousness though there's a lot of advice being offered that you really should ignore, especially considering the industry you're looking to get involved in, or else temper your expectations of the industry you're looking to have a career in. Don't take my word for it, ask around those you know who may already be in the industry.

Americanisation seems to be the buzz word at the moment. This is no new fangled agenda. Sure, some employers take the piss and if you're unfortunate enough to find yourself in such a company you'll discover this quite quickly. The rest you'll find more than reasonable.

ToxicPaddy

OP, not all companies are like that. To be honest if a manager or director of a company said that to me I'd have went back to my desk and started sending out CVs immediately.

There will be times when extra hours are required, it's part of every job and getting time in lieu or flexibility if leaving early etc is usually provided in return. Some even provide overtime pay or an impromptu bonus.

But expecting people for staying late for the sake of it and as the norm means one of two things to me:

1: The work is there for more people to be hired and they just won't spend the money getting more staff in which would set alarm bells to me.

2: They want their pound of flesh and are of the opinion that when you took the job youre there for do with as they please.

Either way OP, move on. They dont sound like a pleasant crowd to work for. There are lots of companies out there who want their employees to have a life outside of work, not to be burnt out or fed up in their jobs.

A bored or burnt out employee isn't productive or motivated, good ones move on and they are left with complacent or lazy ones who lack drive or ambition. It creates an unpleasant work environment and the chances of you actually getting properly rewarded for your hard work is unlikely.

That's my 2c anyway.

markc2951

Leave 5 minutes early let them know who's boss

questionmark?

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

Depends if you are on a salary or get paid by the hour. Paid by the hour you should get compensated for it, salary its part of the job/package.

What bugs me is the self righteousness and self importance of those who offer advice to just walk out without having all the facts or details of what's involved. The level of self worth, self importance and unjustified expectation in this country is something else.

I'm on a salary. My contract says to fulfill it I have to work x number of hours per annum and be willing to travel when the job requires it. Anything outside my normal commute is regarded as extra working time. Anything over what's stated in the contract I either get time in lieu or paid extra for it mainly because my company doesnt expect me to be a slave nor to hate my job and leave.

Telling someone that they will be fired if they don't work for free is nonsense or a sure fire way to bring an unfair dismissal claim if you were let go for refusing to work for free as well as a great way to get a company bad publicity if it went public.

OP stay a little later whilst your on trial after that leave on time unless the job really requires it and if so claim for it with overtime pay or lieu time.

syklops

joebloggs32 wrote: »

This is like the creeping practice of using interns we have inherited from the states. The more people give, the more others will take.

Internships have their benefits, but the whole thing has been abused by many Irish managers. IT jobs for example where as an intern you shadow an experienced worker and see how they do things could be very valuable to a graduate or someone low on experience, but the person at the end of the internship should either be offered a job or be allowed go get a job on foot of their newly gained experience.

Tesco wanted interns for packing shelves. I did my stint as a shelves packer years ago and there is an art to it. Facing-off anyone? But its not like its an art that takes months to master or that the experience gleamed from stacking shelves is highly valuable.

The thing with an office job is your doing relatively important things that take a chunk of time, be it 20 minutes or 2 hours. If you are in to it as well you tend not to notice the time pass. If you are leaving at bang on the exact time every day then some people will assume your not that into the job.

I've learnt over time, from observing the 'successful' people around me that you have to play the system. It seems you can go for an infinite amount of smoke/coffee breaks if you arrive early and leave late. As I said before, employers dont seem to be able to measure productivity too well, so they use the only markers at their disposal start/leave time.

I worked with a guy who arrived at 9 and left at 5.30 and was super smart and efficient. Whenever we couldnt fix something, he took it and made it work. He got fired for calling in sick too often. The company pretty much cut their nose off to spite their face because they lost a highly valuable resource. He's now CEO of his own company earning big $$$.

December2012

I think, like so much in life, it depends on the whole situation. I don't mind staying a bit late because my boss doesn't mind if i start a bit late.

Noccy_Mondy

If I could have the car started before quitting time, I would! The minute ten to 4 comes I'm in the car and out the gap. No fear of me staying around for the good of my health. That's the way I've always been, so I don't expect anyone to expect any different of me. If I'm not being paid to be there, I won't be there. You work to live, not the other way around.

Wanderer78

Noccy_Mondy wrote: »

If I could have the car started before quitting time, I would!

you may need a new job, i know plenty of lads that do this and theyre dead right

imitation

Wanderer78 wrote: »

jasus where do i start with this one! firstly most office jobs do not require doing 'relatively important things' period. if you were working for example on the front lines of the emergency services you d be doing 'relatively important things'. office jobs and indeed most jobs aint that important in the grand scheme of life. theyre just jobs, that can be making a lot of money for others. every minute of your time on this planet is important, as you cant get time back. spend your free time doing the things you really wanna do with the people you really wanna be with, because unfortunately its not for ever! oh put down the damn remote! more to life!

Companies exist to make money, they aren't paying people 40-50k a year to sit about an office doing things that aren't profitable, we live in a capitalist society, like it or not.

I find so many people here are time misers, every minute of their time is super frickin precious, god forbid you spend a minute longer in work, lining the pockets of the fat cats. I mean you could spend that time on boards or watching Netflix or some other amazing life enriching thing, rather than you know - doing some career development that will hopefully get you onto a decent salary or up the ladder or perhaps increase your enjoyment of the 40 hours a week you need to work to support yourself.

And no I am not advocating doing 50-60 weeks every single week, just doing 41/42 and the occasional 45 instead of 40 can make all the difference. If it doesn't make the difference or you are expected to do more.. you are in the wrong company.

Noccy_Mondy

Wanderer78 wrote: »

you may need a new job, i know plenty of lads that do this and theyre dead right

Oh no, I love my job, love the place and colleagues. It's just that when I'm not scheduled to be there I won't be