Leaving work on time frowned upon. Mod warning post 1

STB.

STB. wrote: »

I really hope you are not an employer or in any position of authority.

You'd find yourself before an employment tribunal with that bully boy attitude.

Guarantee the poster wouldn't work for free either. Another upstart suffering from blueshirt syndrome who thinks ordinary workers should go without and be 'grateful' for their 'lucrative' positions.

BreadnBuddha

Halloween Jack wrote: »

You haven't presented any facts, just a sadly skewed opinion...

Your inability or refusal to accept that employers have a very reasonable right to expect certain things from a new employee may be the reality. It's not uncommon.

Until the new guy proves he can get up to speed and start paying his way as quickly as possible, whether he's a nice guy, sociable and conscientious or whatever else he has going in his favour does not matter.

Business is first and foremost about securing profit for the owner. Until a guy shows he's at bare minimum capable of grafting to get the job done, he's a resource sink with unknown potentia.

3 weeks in, on a trial basis, working in sales and rapidy approaching year end, yet thinks it's his right to get uppity when he's pulled up over taking off 'on time' by a director?

You might want to argue with me because you don't like the way I deliver the message, but there's no way in hell his employer will view it any differently.

fattycrowe

ThisRegard wrote:

Nothing to do with America, it's standard practice. It's a very union idea that you don't work one second outside of your contracted time without recompense.

Jaysus, I've heard it all now! This is rubbish.

d9oiu2wk07blr5

Stay an extra hour, turn up an hour earlier, forgo coffee and meal breaks, do a 7/7 working week, take no holiers, wear a pager so that you're at the constant beck and call of the employer....put up and shut up....where does it end?

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

Would you like to to stick a brush up me arse so I can sweep the floor whilst I'm walking about too?

Mongfinder General

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

Would you like to to stick a brush up me arse so I can sweep the floor whilst I'm walking about too?

Yeah and recycle your urine by watering the plants while you're at it!

mada82

As someone once said to me, they can't ring up the electrical/gas/phone company and tell them they aren't paying them for usage after 4.30pm.

Tell me how

Felix Fancy Manufacturer wrote:

Stay an extra hour, turn up an hour earlier, forgo coffee and meal breaks, do a 7/7 working week, take no holiers, wear a pager so that you're at the constant beck and call of the employer....put up and shut up....where does it end?

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote:

Would you like to to stick a brush up me arse so I can sweep the floor whilst I'm walking about too?

Do you ever take a personal call during work hours, go online for a bit, chat about your weekend....

Do you pay the company back for the time lost to these events?

I wouldn't expect that you should but do you not agree with a reasonable amount of give and take when the pressure is on?

REXER

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Those examples are trades people. Meaning they have training, experience and the capability to get the job done. The OP is an apprentice, expecting the Tradesman to carry his toolbox and sweep the floor for him because it's clocking off time.

Nope, you have that confused there, he expects the Tradesman to now carry his own toolbox because its clocking off focking off time!

Chris.

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Hardly.

Take it in context of the entire post.

You might not like the message but it's a fact. Employees who have just started a new job, who are taking time and being paid to learn the ropes while taking up coworkers and managers time in the process and at the same time failing recognise and react to the reality that they are NOT YET valued personnel are entitled to no more than to be shown the door.

Don't agree? Fine. We don't have to agree, but flippant remarks don't change the facts.

Are you an employer by any chance?

BreadnBuddha

STB. wrote: »

I really hope you are not an employer or in any position of authority.

You'd find yourself before an employment tribunal with that bully boy attitude.

I manage an international industrial products sales team for a management owned SME.

I've fired sales people who were in effect lazy, despite having sales revenues in excess of their individual targets. Their sales revenues would have been much greater if they were actually approaching their role as a sales one, rather than run-rate order processing.

I've retained sales people during periods when their sales revenue attainment was far below target but their activity level was focused and showed they were the right people caught in a market segment downturn.

Until somebody shows what they're capable of doing when sales performance is below required levels, the absolute minmum I expect to see is dogged determination that any financial underperformance is not for want of a reasonable amount of extra effort on their part.

So yeah, to you, I'm whatever names you've already decided to call me. That's my responsibility in my workplace. Our team pay 80 salaries across design, R&D, production and accounts/admin departments. Nobody here can afford deadweight. It's that simple.

ThisRegard

circadian wrote: »

Pay me for my time is not a union idea.

I'll happily throw in extra time when needed, but it's far from the norm. .

I never said it was, I was implying that it's their opinion that you shouldn't even contemplate what you posted in your second paragraph.

We're actually in complete agreement.

Halloween Jack

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

I manage an international industrial products sales team for a management owned SME.

I've fired sales people who were in effect lazy, despite having sales revenues in excess of their individual targets. Their sales revenues would have been much greater if they were actually approaching their role as a sales one, rather than run-rate order processing.

I've retained sales people during periods when their sales revenue attainment was far below target but their activity level was focused and showed they were the right people caught in a market segment downturn.

Until somebody shows what they're capable of doing when sales performance is below required levels, the absolute minmum I expect to see is dogged determination that any financial underperformance is not for want of a reasonable amount of extra effort on their part.

So yeah, to you, I'm whatever names you've already decided to call me. That's my responsibility in my workplace. Our team pay 80 salaries across design, R&D, production and accounts/admin departments. Nobody here can afford deadweight. It's that simple.

The sharehdets can clearly afford a bit of deadweight seeing as they are the beneficiaries of their employees free labour.

Wanderer78

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

I manage an international industrial products sales team for a management owned SME.....

it shows in your comments. take note folks, all thats wrong with some businesses! remember now, your boss wont be holding your hand when you get sick!

BreadnBuddha

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

I manage an international industrial products sales team for a management owned SME.

I've fired sales people who were in effect lazy, despite having sales revenues in excess of their individual targets. Their sales revenues would have been much greater if they were actually approaching their role as a sales one, rather than run-rate order processing.

I've retained sales people during periods when their sales revenue attainment was far below target but their activity level was focused and showed they were the right people caught in a market segment downturn.

Until somebody shows what they're capable of doing when sales performance is below required levels, the absolute minmum I expect to see is dogged determination that any financial underperformance is not for want of a reasonable amount of extra effort on their part.

So yeah, to you, I'm whatever names you've already decided to call me. That's my responsibility in my workplace. Our team pay 80 salaries across design, R&D, production and accounts/admin departments. Nobody here can afford deadweight. It's that simple.

And how do you propose on actually rewarding this 'doggedness' ? Whats the sweeteners from the company? Are they paid by hour or by set salary? How many hours a day do you expect your average employee to do and how are they renumerated for these hours? Or are you just a cheapskate that abuses your position of power?

LegacyUser

I had a similar smart comment said to me in my last job, but I ignored that comment. Was there for 6 years in the end but they were the most scroungey company I've ever worked for. They didn't pay their electricians overtime. No union so nobody ever said anything.

I was an office worker and I stuck to my guns. I was not going to be made stay after work and not get paid. I did mention to my boss that people staying back everyday obviously aren't good at time management. I always had my work done so that shut them up pretty quick.

catbear

People have to come before profit because it's people who make the profit happen.

Anyone thinking otherwise is thinking short term gain which may not even transpire.

Mongfinder General

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

I manage an international industrial products sales team for a management owned SME.

I've fired sales people who were in effect lazy, despite having sales revenues in excess of their individual targets. Their sales revenues would have been much greater if they were actually approaching their role as a sales one, rather than run-rate order processing.

I've retained sales people during periods when their sales revenue attainment was far below target but their activity level was focused and showed they were the right people caught in a market segment downturn.

Until somebody shows what they're capable of doing when sales performance is below required levels, the absolute minmum I expect to see is dogged determination that any financial underperformance is not for want of a reasonable amount of extra effort on their part.

So yeah, to you, I'm whatever names you've already decided to call me. That's my responsibility in my workplace. Our team pay 80 salaries across design, R&D, production and accounts/admin departments. Nobody here can afford deadweight. It's that simple.

I used to be sales man, it's a tough racket. Your name is "you're wanting", and you can't play the man's game, you can't close them, and then tell your wife your troubles. 'Cause only one thing counts in this world: get them to sign on the line which is dotted.

Wanderer78

Mongfinder General wrote: »

....and then tell your wife your troubles....

if she hangs around!

ThisRegard

One thing is clear, there's a lot of boardsies who have very little ambition and have a terrible attitude of us versus them when it comes to employment. They assume a half hour there, an hour here and there is the worse thing ever without even contemplating, or even manipulating it into something, that may be in it for them.

ThisRegard

ThisRegard wrote: »

One thing is clear, there's a lot of boardsies who have very little ambition and have a terrible attitude of us versus them when it comes to employment. They assume a half hour there, an hour here and there is the worse thing ever without even contemplating, or even manipulating it into something, that may be in it for them.

What evidence do you have of this? As i said earlier, Mcgregor's Theory X and Theory Y. Anyone who isn't prepared to be an unpaid skivvy is Theory X according to you and your sort.

Mongfinder General

ThisRegard wrote: »

One thing is clear, there's a lot of boardsies who have very little ambition and have a terrible attitude of us versus them when it comes to employment. They assume a half hour there, an hour here and there is the worse thing ever without even contemplating, or even manipulating it into something, that may be in it for them.

Well done for stating the obvious. Now in case you misssd it, only fools and horses work.

Wanderer78

ThisRegard wrote: »

One thing is clear, there's a lot of boardsies who have very little ambition and have a terrible attitude of us versus them when it comes to employment. They assume a half hour there, an hour here and there is the worse thing ever without even contemplating, or even manipulating it into something, that may be in it for them.

the problem is most employees are being screwed even ones on 6/7 figures and beyond. im wondering, doesnt anybody question all these massive companies who evade and avoid paying taxes etc? something isnt right here! our whole economic system is deeply imbalanced and unsustainable. my only ambition in life is to enjoy life as much as possible with those that mean a lot to me, period.

BreadnBuddha

Halloween Jack wrote: »

The sharehdets can clearly afford a bit of deadweight seeing as they are the beneficiaries of their employees free labour.

See Jack, that's the difference between the kind of guy who just takes the salary and the guy who can understand that he's responsible for bringing in the money to pay his and the other salaries.

I travel ridiculous distances, working crazy hours sometimes for weeks on end. I get out of bed at 3am to take calls from customers in Asia or stay up until 3am fixing delivery problems for customers on the weat coast of the US. I work harder than I would ever ask anyone else.

I know everyone who works in our business. I know the guy we just gave a payrise as he's separated and wants to set up home for shared custody of his son and daughter, the guy who's masters degree we're paying for him, the woman who makes the tea and tidies the production canteen.

Not everyone does. It doesn't matter to many. It does to me. When I have a useless salesman costing me a monthly base salary and overheads while falling short on targets, I equate that as X employees salaries that haven't been covered.

That, is the fact of the matter. It's not one sales guy. It's many peoples income and jobs that are put at risk. Scale that up or down. It's the same basic reality.

So that new salesman, he'd better put his head down and get up to speed in a hurry or I'll take swift action. He can say whatever he wants, but arguing doesn't put the money in the bank to pay what needs paying.

Perspective's a bitch.

STB.

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

I manage an international industrial products sales team for a management owned SME.

I've fired sales people who were in effect lazy, despite having sales revenues in excess of their individual targets. Their sales revenues would have been much greater if they were actually approaching their role as a sales one, rather than run-rate order processing.

I've retained sales people during periods when their sales revenue attainment was far below target but their activity level was focused and showed they were the right people caught in a market segment downturn.

Until somebody shows what they're capable of doing when sales performance is below required levels, the absolute minmum I expect to see is dogged determination that any financial underperformance is not for want of a reasonable amount of extra effort on their part.

So yeah, to you, I'm whatever names you've already decided to call me. That's my responsibility in my workplace. Our team pay 80 salaries across design, R&D, production and accounts/admin departments. Nobody here can afford deadweight. It's that simple.

You sound like a liability for your company, tough guy.

Any half decent solicitor would have made mincemeat of such practices if sales staff who achieved their targets were "fired for being lazy" IF your own self styled admissions are anything to go by.

Oh to be a fly on the wall.....

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Perspective's a bitch.

Oh I think we have a fair idea.

BreadnBuddha

Mongfinder General wrote: »

I used to be sales man, it's a tough racket. Your name is "you're wanting", and you can't play the man's game, you can't close them, and then tell your wife your troubles. 'Cause only one thing counts in this world: get them to sign on the line which is dotted.

It's a good film, but that's not real life.

Wanderer78

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

See Jack....

ive decided to repost this. id highly recommend taking note of the bold print!

Wanderer78 wrote: »

it shows in your comments. take note folks, all thats wrong with some businesses! remember now, your boss wont be holding your hand when you get sick!

the_pen_turner

ThisRegard wrote: »

One thing is clear, there's a lot of boardsies who have very little ambition and have a terrible attitude of us versus them when it comes to employment. They assume a half hour there, an hour here and there is the worse thing ever without even contemplating, or even manipulating it into something, that may be in it for them.

yes but it has to be give and take . I don't mind staying late for a few minutes here and there if it is noticed and I can use that 'credit' some other day to nip off somewhere is take it easy for a while

catbear

ThisRegard wrote: »

One thing is clear, there's a lot of boardsies who have very little ambition and have a terrible attitude of us versus them when it comes to employment. They assume a half hour there, an hour here and there is the worse thing ever without even contemplating, or even manipulating it into something, that may be in it for them.

But we're all trading commodities to get through life. We trade our time and effort to produce goods and services for pay which we in turn use to purchase goods and services.

To quote Adam Smith the only use of money is the circulation of consumable goods. An employee can use an employer as easily as an employer uses an employee.

As a culture we've been too used to the idea that employees serve employers and as as useful as unions have been sometimes they've only propagated that belief. I've actually had to face down a union who wanted us to ignore health and safety legislation because of the pay deal the top brass in the union and the business had agreed on.

Ultimately in life we're all our own business managers.

Mongfinder General

Ith

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

It's a good film, but that's not real life

eh, that's basically your outlook. Always be closing, or hit the bricks...