Leaving work on time frowned upon. Mod warning post 1

ThisRegard

the_pen_turner wrote: »

yes but it has to be give and take . I don't mind staying late for a few minutes here and there if it is noticed and I can use that 'credit' some other day to nip off somewhere is take it easy for a while

Absolutely. But the main point of view in this thread seems to be the ridiculous notion that you're a "lickspittle" (can you believe someone even made a blueshirt reference ffs) for doing so.

Dyr

ThisRegard wrote: »

Nothing to do with America, it's standard practice. It's a very union idea that you don't work one second outside of your contracted time without recompense.

If you say its standard practice then it must be I guess, debates over folks

Its an americanism and has nothing to do with getting the job done, its just to ensure that the people who stay will cater for their every whim.

CruelCoin

ThisRegard wrote: »

One thing is clear, there's a lot of boardsies who have very little ambition and have a terrible attitude of us versus them when it comes to employment. They assume a half hour there, an hour here and there is the worse thing ever without even contemplating, or even manipulating it into something, that may be in it for them.

I often wonder about this.

How many of you guys actually start working at 8am and how many actually finish working at 4:30pm?

Or do you treat it as the hours you are being paid to be on the premises?

Starting a little earlier and finishing a little later so that you actually work the fullness of the hours you are being paid for isn't a terrible concept and pretty standard on the continent.

ThisRegard

Bambi wrote: »

If you say its standard practice then it must be I guess, debates over folks

Its an americanism and has nothing to do with getting the job done, its just to ensure that the people who stay will cater for their every whim.

Nonsense. But you perfectly demonstrated the attitude I previously mentioned.

Chris.

ThisRegard wrote: »

One thing is clear, there's a lot of boardsies who have very little ambition and have a terrible attitude of us versus them when it comes to employment. They assume a half hour there, an hour here and there is the worse thing ever without even contemplating, or even manipulating it into something, that may be in it for them.

9 times out of 10 there is absolutely nothing in it for the employee. Been that fool before and it won't happen again. Fair days work for a fair days pay. Happily self-employed now for the last year and a half and will be taking on employee's within the next 3.

The one thing I can take from my experience as an employee of an SME and I'm extremely thankful for, is how not to treat people and how to get the best from them. Once treated well and looked after the people you employ, the face of your company will make it a success. Afterall employees are your greatest asset without them your business doesn't work.

Wanderer78

Chris. wrote: »

9 times out of 10 there is absolutely nothing in it for the employee. Been that fool before and it won't happen again. Fair days work for a fair days pay. Happily self-employed now for the last year and a half and will be taking on employee's within the next 3.

The one thing I can take from my experience as an employee of an SME and I'm extremely thankful for, is how not to treat people and how to get the best from them. Once treated well and looked after the people you employ, the face of your company will make it a success. Afterall employees are your greatest asset without them your business doesn't work.

bravo! i wish you the very best with your business. this is how to run a business folks!

BreadnBuddha

STB. wrote: »

You sound like a liability for your company, tough guy.

Any half decent solicitor would have made mincemeat of such practices if sales staff who achieved their targets were "fired for being lazy" IF your owned self styled admissions are anything to go by.

Oh to be a fly on the wall.....



Oh I think we have a fair idea.

It's simple. SME with an anti-union workforce and clear cut non-revenue related performance metrics for all employees.

All office, sales and admin staff on flexi-time. All production staff on their own choice of shifts. All company employees get identical share of company performance bonus. All sales staff on base salaries of over €40k per annum and an identical commission structure. Nobody hurts just because they might not get commission in a given quarter.

We pay for any degree/masters degree courses for ANY permanent employee if it's related to their role or career ambitions. We pay for all GP visits for all employees, no matter what the purpose of their visit. We give €300 per employee for sports and social club use. We subsidise the canteen heavily. We have 4 proper company outings a year.

We look after everyone. Nobody at any level wants to carry a guy who won't work as hard as everyone else when the pressure is on. They're not welcome and we can easily manage that kind of boat anchor out the door. It's even easier when they're found out during their probation period anyway.

Halloween Jack

ThisRegard wrote: »

Absolutely. But the main point of view in this thread seems to be the ridiculous notion that you're a "lickspittle" (can you believe someone even made a blueshirt reference ffs) for doing so.

What else would you call someone that has so little regard for themselves they give their labour for free?

At the end of the day if you want people to do 12 hours, then put it in the contract. I work in a call centre and if i get stuck in call 5 minutes over ill treat it the very same as any previous call that day but i certainly wont take another call then that unless I'm asked and paid to do so. I've never heard of an employer amassing and rewarding the amount of times an employee stays a couple of minutes extra but I've heard of plenty throughout my working life that keep records of employees for being a minute late.

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote: »

I work in a call centre...

god love yea. id never do it. one sure way to acquire mental health problems!

Dyr

ThisRegard wrote: »

Nonsense. But you perfectly demonstrated the attitude I previously mentioned.

I've been late in the office for 3 hours each night this week

That's because we have a problem right now and it needs sorting, if an employer is expecting me to work outside their own stated office hours every day then the chances are they're incompetent or they're a sports direct type outfit who don't care about staff turnover.


Unless you're a sports direct type outfit of course

Eugene Norman

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

It's simple. SME with an anti-union workforce and clear cut non-revenue related performance metrics for all employees.

All office, sales and admin staff on flexi-time. All production staff on their own choice of shifts. All company employees get identical share of company performance bonus. All sales staff on base salaries of over €40k per annum and an identical commission structure. Nobody hurts just because they might not get commission in a given quarter.

We pay for any degree/masters degree courses for ANY permanent employee if it's related to their role or career ambitions. We pay for all GP visits for all employees, no matter what the purpose of their visit. We give €300 per employee for sports and social club use. We subsidise the canteen heavily. We have 4 proper company outings a year.

We look after everyone. Nobody at any level wants to carry a guy who won't work as hard as everyone else when the pressure is on. They're not welcome and we can easily manage that kind of boat anchor out the door. It's even easier when they're found out during their probation period anyway.

Those benefits are great but not applicable to all companies that expect people to work overtime. The op is in s company with 15-20 employees. Probably they can't afford those benefits.

The op wants to work 8-4:30. Is that possible in your fantastical workplace? if it is what's your problem exactly.

Wanderer78

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

It's simple..

its disturbing to see how many people are fooled by the carrots companies 'give' to attract employees. as chris said above, people are the most important asset a business has and should be respected. i find it mind boggling

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

god love yea. id never do it. one sure way to acquire mental health problems!

Its mentally taxing no doubt. My contract runs up to late March. Everything is measured, average call time (target 195 seconds), after call work time (less then 35s), hold time, amount of transfers to other departments, adherence to break times.

Very very hard to get anything else. Part of me is tempted to just emigrate at this stage. Not even directly hired by the company i work for. Hired by recruitment agency.

MOH

Most places I've worked there'll be times when your team is under pressure and working a bit extra will get past the bottleneck and things will go back to normal.

Some companies will pay you for the extra time. Some will give you time in lieu. Some will unofficially be flexible at less busy times. Some will take advantage of your goodwill and allow the pressure to persist instead of dealing with the issue properly (by hiring more/reassigning existing staff/paying or otherwise compensating for the extra work). And sometimes colleagues will take advantage by slacking off and letting others do their work.

At the end of the day, it's up to you what you're comfortable with. Personally, I'd work the extra now and then, once it's seen to be appreciated, is not a regular thing, and there's leniency in other areas or I benefit in some way from it. And if nobody else is taking the piss. If I feel I'm being screwed by the company, I'll be counting every second I work and probably looking for a new job.

Three weeks, at a probably busy time of year, mightn't be enough time to get an overall sense of things. If it's the same end of January and doesn't look like improving, maybe time to start asking questions.

Oh, and for anyone suggesting uncompensated extra work is an Americanised view: read this recently

CruelCoin

STB. wrote: »

You sound like a liability for your company, tough guy.

Any half decent solicitor would have made mincemeat of such practices if sales staff who achieved their targets were "fired for being lazy" IF your own self styled admissions are anything to go by.

Meeting targets while shooting fish in a barrel (bmw sales during the boom) isn't exactly an achievement and sometimes not a great measure of effort.

Meeting targets does not always mean you're working hard.

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote: »

Its mentally taxing no doubt. My contract runs up to late March. Everything is measured, average call time (target 195 seconds), after call work time (less then 35s), hold time, amount of transfers to other departments, adherence to break times.

Very very hard to get anything else. Part of me is tempted to just emigrate at this stage. Not even directly hired by the company i work for. Hired by recruitment agency.

i feel for you i really do. your story isnt unique though. ive heard it many times. there are options out there just keep looking and best of luck with it. i could see myself being arrested if i was in your shoes.

Dyr

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

It's simple. SME with an anti-union workforce

lol, you mean the employer won't let a union near the place.

Heroditas

Mongfinder General wrote: »

I used to be sales man, it's a tough racket. Your name is "you're wanting", and you can't play the man's game, you can't close them, and then tell your wife your troubles. 'Cause only one thing counts in this world: get them to sign on the line which is dotted.

Did you ever win a set of steak knives?

Bambi

Bambi wrote: »

lol, you mean the employer won't let a union near the place.

Yeah you know, in case the company might be forced to treating the humans under their roof with the dignity they deserve.

Dyr

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah you know, in case the company might be forced to treating the humans under their roof with the dignity they deserve.

Unions have a funny habit of funding unfair dismissal cases and all, they'd have some fun there

STB.

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

It's simple.

Do you think you are talking at one of your subordinates ? Drop it, you wouldnt last two minutes.

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

SME with an anti-union workforce and clear cut non-revenue related performance metrics for all employees.

First off, it may have escaped your attention. ALL Employees have a right under the Constitution to join a trade union.

We look after everyone. Nobody at any level wants to carry a guy who won't work as hard as everyone else when the pressure is on. They're not welcome and we can easily manage that kind of boat anchor out the door. It's even easier when they're found out during their probation period anyway.

Yes working conditions and benefits all sound fine and dandy. It does not excuse your own self styled admissions earlier, nor your attitude and expectation to those who do not work outside conditional hours.

There is nothing wrong with running a tight ship, but don't come on here telling me that your management techniques, suspicions and general attitude is sustainable or acceptable.

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

A sales and marketing job where you walk out the door on time?

I'd have let you go already.

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Workplaces are full of wasters who spend 15 or more minutes at the beginning and end of each day doing things that should have been done before and after the paid work takes place.

Anyone who arrives at the last minute, clocks in, fluters around getting coffee and booting their PC is a waster.

Anyone who clocks out and walks out the door on the button is a waster.

Appalling.

ThisRegard

Halloween Jack wrote: »

What else would you call someone that has so little regard for themselves they give their labour for free?

Someone who's on Christmas holidays at the moment, someone who can personally drop their kids to school in the mornings, and who's home for them to make dinner and homework. Someone who can also stay at home with them when they're ill.

I have a great work life balance. I'm also well recompensed.

If that's person you see as having little regard for themselves, bring on the stick to beat myself with.

Wanderer78

STB. wrote: »

Do you think you are talking at one of your subordinates ?....

disturbingly, theres many a holes in the workplace like this, many of them in managerial positions.

STB.

CruelCoin wrote: »

Meeting targets while shooting fish in a barrel (bmw sales during the boom) isn't exactly an achievement and sometimes not a great measure of effort.

Meeting targets does not always mean you're working hard.

I think we all fully understand that, but neither is it a measure of under performance and such practices wouldn't take long to settle in an unfair dismissals case.

I do not understand someone coming onto an internet forum and openly admitting they fired people for meeting set targets. These are not management practices to be proud of. Any such exposure would be downright foolish.

Dyr

Wanderer78 wrote: »

disturbingly, theres many a holes in the workplace like this, many of them in managerial positions.

The funny this is that many company's are now recognizing that these guys and the culture they promote are massive liabilities in the long term.

Staff turnover and solicitors fees cost money for a start

Chris.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

disturbingly, theres many a holes in the workplace like this, many of them in managerial positions.

I would go as far as to say 90% of managers in this country are damaging to their particular business. Do as I say not as I do sort of people. Wrong type of people to be hired into managerial positions. They have no idea how be a leader.

Wanderer78

Bambi wrote: »

The funny this is that many company's are now recognizing that these guys and the culture they promote are massive liabilities in the long term.

Staff turnover and solicitors fees cost money for a start

unfortunately some business models seem to only work on quick staff turnover, and seem to make a hell of a lot of money doing so. id class the call centre business as one of these industries, but good point

BreadnBuddha

Bambi wrote: »

lol, you mean the employer won't let a union near the place.

Absolutely.

All of the shareholders are owner-managers. All of them used to be factory workers here. All pursued higher level education at night and weekend while literally punching metal parts, machining components, welding assemblies and selling product during the day. They remortgaged their homes to buy the business premises, tooling and equipment.

They've come from the shop floor, as tradesmen, with nothing good to say about the union to which they all paid dues for decades. A union will never find a foothold inside its doors under their ownership. I've seen two workers lose their jobs for disruptive practices when they kept pushing other workers to organise.

If you want to work in a unionised workplace, go work someplace else. Here, you're held accountable as an individual for what you contribute.

Wanderer78

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Absolutely....

disturbing stuff very very disturbing! :eek: