The Tipperary GAA (Club and Intercounty) Thread

Seadin

jluv wrote: »

And rightly so.. best team won.. but....the next time he tries it he will be remembered, trust me..
My point actually was that it wasn't dirt from Richie. If we watched pretty much any analysis from previous you'd nearly always find a player who was "lucky". If Barrett hadn't milked it Richie would still be on. Tipp would have still won. They were coming on from at that point. But shame to get a player or aid in a player getting sent off in an All Ireland final..

Jaysus some Kilkenny fans are really hurt by this defeat. Was it all that bad? Tipp destroyed Kilkenny in the 2nd half and from the 22nd min in the first half Tipp were playing better and especially before the sending off. You were beaten off the pitch you had no answer to Tipps firepower. Take it on the chin and stop the excuses and clutching at straws. People don't like bad losers. Posts like the above sum it up really.

jluv

Seadin wrote: »

Jaysus some Kilkenny fans are really hurt by this defeat. Was it all that bad? Tipp destroyed Kilkenny in the 2nd half and from the 22nd min in the first half Tipp were playing better and especially before the sending off. You were beaten off the pitch you had no answer to Tipps firepower. Take it on the chin and stop the excuses and clutching at straws. People don't like bad losers. Posts like the above sum it up really.

Did you actually read the post? Best team won etc..no sour grapes here. Just discussing an incident in the game as most hurling lovers do..

Gentleman Off The Pitch

Seadin wrote: »

Jaysus some Kilkenny fans are really hurt by this defeat. Was it all that bad? Tipp destroyed Kilkenny in the 2nd half and from the 22nd min in the first half Tipp were playing better and especially before the sending off. You were beaten off the pitch you had no answer to Tipps firepower. Take it on the chin and stop the excuses and clutching at straws. People don't like bad losers. Posts like the above sum it up really.

While the sending off can't fully explain Kilkennys shocking performance in the second half, I've never seen such a concerted effort to dismiss a match as being already over by the time of the sending off when there was just a single point in it and the losing team at the time had been the much more comfortable team for the majority of the game at that point

Antics21

The point is that Kilkenny were blown out of it in the second half. Teams do win games with 14 games quite often you know. Ye made heros of Tipp backs by lumping ball down for nearly 25 minutes when outnumbered.
If Kilkenny can't outwork a team they are ordinary and after the first twenty minutes and being only 5 up, ye were never going to win the game. Like the Limerick ye ran out of steam, unlike the Limerick game ye weren't 11 points of a head start up.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

jluv wrote: »

The debate is real.. how many times have you watched the half time analysis/full time analysis/Sunday game where it has been said, well "player" was lucky that so and so stayed on his feet, or didn't stay down or didn't make too much of it. It was never dirt. Ritchie's was unlucky Barrett stepped aside. Barrett made a meal of it. He'll be remembered for it as much as Richie will be remembered for being sent off..

Only Kilkenny people believe that. He was shouldered in the jaw and knocked down. It would be a red card in any sport. A banning in some.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

The first paragraph is obviously correct, the second is your opinion and is being pushed as a certainty by Tipp supporters everywhere as they want to minimize the impact of the sending off when it obviously involves speculation. The facts are there was a point in it at the time, Tipp were going through a purple patch following a great 20 mins from Kilkenny. Just because there was a similar pattern in a previous match doesn't mean you can make authoritative statements about what would have happened.
That was a reply to Antics21

jluv

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Only Kilkenny people believe that. He was shouldered in the jaw and knocked down. It would be a red card in any sport. A banning in some.

Nope.. even speaking to Tipp supporters..agree that on any other day might have been let go as a yellow and that Barret made too much of it..

Antics21

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

The first paragraph is obviously correct, the second is your opinion and is being pushed as a certainty by Tipp supporters everywhere as they want to minimize the impact of the sending off when it obviously involves speculation. The facts are there was a point in it at the time, Tipp were going through a purple patch following a great 20 mins from Kilkenny. Just because there was a similar pattern in a previous match doesn't mean you can make authoritative statements about what would have happened.
That was a reply to Antics21

I'll revise the never going to win the game.
It was going to be difficult for ye even with 15.
Buckley, Mullen and Hogan were all half fit and young Browne was very raw looking. Yere backs did well overall but the forward play was really poor all day.

Powerhouse

jluv wrote: »

And rightly so.. best team won.. but....the next time he tries it he will be remembered, trust me..
My point actually was that it wasn't dirt from Richie. If we watched pretty much any analysis from previous you'd nearly always find a player who was "lucky". If Barrett hadn't milked it Richie would still be on. Tipp would have still won. They were coming on from at that point. But shame to get a player or aid in a player getting sent off in an All Ireland final..

What on earth does this comment mean?!

Powerhouse

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Only Kilkenny people believe that. He was shouldered in the jaw and knocked down. It would be a red card in any sport. A banning in some.

That's the weird thing. Even in a sport as physical as rugby union a player would walk for that. Crazy that some loons are even contesting it.

jluv

Powerhouse wrote: »

What on earth does this comment mean?!

Exactly what it says..iif he plays up another foul he'll be remembered for this. Nothing more or nothing less..remember how he helped to get a player sent off in an All Ireland final.
Now I'm not saying it's his fault but he did play into it..

kilkennyboy

What colour would you put on that challenge

Powerhouse wrote: »

That's the weird thing. Even in a sport as physical as rugby union a player would walk for that. Crazy that some loons are even contesting it.

https://twitter.com/NedzerB13/status/1163573406085918721?s=19https://twitter.com/NedzerB13/status/1163573406085918721?s=19

jluv

jluv wrote: »

Exactly what it says..iif he plays up another foul he'll be remembered for this. Nothing more or nothing less..remember how he helped to get a player sent off in an All Ireland final.
Now I'm not saying it's his fault but he did play into it..

Crying out loud am i actually reading this nonsense??? Did you somehow miss the actual connection to the jaw where the hardest part of the arm connected with Barrett?? This is ludicrous stuff.

The gas thing about Kilkenny is that they seem to have themselves convinced they are a bastion of ethics. You have the likes of Tyrell mouthing off who himself was guilty of a frontal charge in 2009. Eddie Brennan could have seen the line in 2007 and yet is accusing other players of dishonesty.

Stacksofwacks

kilkennyboy wrote: »

What colour would you put on that challenge

https://twitter.com/NedzerB13/status/1163573406085918721?s=19https://twitter.com/NedzerB13/status/1163573406085918721?s=19

What is it with these KK lads in the media, you had Henry trying to tell us the sky isnt blue, Jackie Tyrell the same on the Sunday game and now Eddie bringing up a clip from 12 years ago.

Powerhouse

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

What is it with these KK lads in the media, you had Henry trying to tell us the sky isnt blue, Jackie Tyrell the same on the Sunday game and now Eddie bringing up a clip from 12 years ago.

Some joke really, here's a guy who is a current inter-county manager and a sometime Sunday Game panellist and he has the immaturity to be getting involved in this sort of stuff. I think he could do with wise counsel around him right now.

Stacksofwacks

Powerhouse wrote: »

Some joke really, here's a guy who is a current inter-county manager and a sometime Sunday Game panellist and he has the immaturity to be getting involved in this sort of stuff. I think he could do with wise counsel around him right now.

I wouldnt say immaturity as such but a KK thing. They can't stand losing at all, its bred into them from their Cody days and the fact that the culprit is one of their former buddies from those days makes them throw all their impartiality out the window.

Powerhouse

jluv wrote: »

Exactly what it says..iif he plays up another foul he'll be remembered for this. Nothing more or nothing less..remember how he helped to get a player sent off in an All Ireland final.
Now I'm not saying it's his fault but he did play into it..

You'd be right. The fault was Richie Hogan's. No more to be said.

kilkennyboy

kilkennyboy wrote: »

What colour would you put on that challenge

https://twitter.com/NedzerB13/status/1163573406085918721?s=19https://twitter.com/NedzerB13/status/1163573406085918721?s=19

Lar went with his shoulder and yes he was a mile late. Got a deserved booking. Here is the difference. Richie led with his elbow. Try again Eddie B

Xenophile

Anyone here think that Callanan's ball into Bubbles for the goal was a mis hit by Callanan.I do.

Mantis Toboggan

Harmless enough really..

Tipperary animal lover

Xenophile wrote: »

Anyone here think that Callanan's ball into Bubbles for the goal was a mis hit by Callanan.I do.

No lad, watched it a few times now and it was well placed by seamie, he looks up and places it right in front of bubbles class passage of play great vision.

robbiezero

Xenophile wrote: »

Anyone here think that Callanan's ball into Bubbles for the goal was a mis hit by Callanan.I do.

Why, what do you think he was trying to do?

Tipperary animal lover

Deleted User wrote: »

Lar went with his shoulder and yes he was a mile late. Got a deserved booking. Here is the difference. Richie led with his elbow. Try again Eddie B

Tipp gunner don't get sucked into it, some of the kilkenny lads are just bitter, like me would if it was other way around, look at seamies stonewall penalty, free outside the box no card shown, swings in roundabouts, tipp abú

Tombo2001

How did Hogan end up with a bloody nose earlier in the game? Did he walk into a lamp post....

... or was he struck on the head by a hurl?

Xenophile

robbiezero wrote: »

Why, what do you think he was trying to do?

Thought he was going for a point, I was on the Upper Cusack and he was directly down under me, said it at the time. Watched the game back and was not surprised to hear Henry Shefflin say the same thing in the analysis.

kyler_87

Well done Tipp!

Donadea Leo

The sending off was a shame as it killed the game. I had thought it was harsh originally as I didn t think Richie intended to elbow him in the face but he was going at him with full on aggression and I do think the elbow came up as a reaction to Barrett stepping out of way. Players do have a responsibility to protect other players and Richie didn t do this, it was very dangerous and deserved a red for that reason.
As regards, Barrett diving, no way he got an elbow smack in the chin from a player running flat out at him. I d like to see Jackie Tyrell stand up after that happening to him.
It is not surprising these ex kilkenny players are complaining and struggling with defeat, they are not used to losing and don't like it. It's 2015 since they won it, it might take a few years before they win it again, deep down they know that and that s what really hurts I reckon.

Tipperary animal lover

Xenophile wrote: »

Thought he was going for a point, I was on the Upper Cusack and he was directly down under me, said it at the time. Watched the game back and was not surprised to hear Henry Shefflin say the same thing in the analysis.

Shefflin the same lad who said hogan shouldn't have got red, I think I'll trust my own eyes but if your happy to think Seamie went for a point all the better he should've gone to spec savers the ball was heading for the corner post

1373

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

What is it with these KK lads in the media, you had Henry trying to tell us the sky isnt blue, Jackie Tyrell the same on the Sunday game and now Eddie bringing up a clip from 12 years ago.

Just read the kk thread on here and you’ll enter a world of bitterness and crazy. They all seem to have forgotten that bad refereeing got them into the final .

Dayor Knight

Xenophile wrote: »

Thought he was going for a point, I was on the Upper Cusack and he was directly down under me, said it at the time. Watched the game back and was not surprised to hear Henry Shefflin say the same thing in the analysis.

Nah, look at the highlights. He clearly looks up, sees Bubbles and rifles a killer pass to him. Assassin finish by Bubbles, lift and smash. What a goal.

Mantis Toboggan

1373 wrote: »

Just read the kk thread on here and you’ll enter a world of bitterness and crazy. They all seem to have forgotten that bad refereeing got them into the final .

The bitterness makes it all the more sweeter :pac:

Also it glosses over the fact of how poor kilkenny were on the day. If I was a kilkenny man i'd be more interested in why the team gave up with 30 minutes remaining? Why did they pick the wrong team? Why they had they no plan B? Why were they so tactically inept?

robbiezero

farmerval wrote: »

Funniest thing of all is we scored 3 goals and 25 points and the three nominees for Man of the match were 2 defenders and a deep lying midfielder.

Ya, it is strange really. IMO our top 6 players would have been Noel, Heffernan, Kennedy, Barrett and the Maher brothers, all defence and a midfielder.
Forwards played well enough, all of them had little spells where they were very effective, but none of them really ran amok in the way they did in 2016.
Callanan finished the game in a brilliant 5 minute spell scoring 1-1 and setting up the 3rd goal, but outside of that, he had a tough time of it off Lawlor.

Chalk McHugh

Jackie Tyrell made a right eejit of himself on the Sunday Game. Out of 10 panelists, and one of them an ex referee, he was the only one saying it wasn't a red card. Not only that he said it was Barrett's fault for over reacting and that it wasn't in the spirit of Tipp v Kilkenny games and compared it to Tommy Walsh not lying down when hit by Benny Dunne in 2009. This is one seriously bitter man in regards Tipp. All you have to do is read his toxic chapter on Tipp in his book to know the hatred he feels for the blue and gold.

Funny thing is since his bile in that book Tipp have walloped the cats in two finals making his coddswallop about Tipp being soft and lack character look decidedly stupid. The way he is crying over a dead cert red card is highlighting a lack of sincerity on his part. Shefflin was at the same. Eddie Brennan now whinging away also. There has been a huge lack of class shown by Kilkenny in defeat since the final whistle was blown. Sad to see really.

robbiezero

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

The bitterness makes it all the more sweeter :pac:

Also it glosses over the fact of how poor kilkenny were on the day. If I was a kilkenny man i'd be more interested in why the team gave up with 30 minutes remaining? Why did they pick the wrong team? Why they had they no plan B? Why were they so tactically inept?

Ya, Had it been 5 or 6 points in it, there might be some merit in the sending off having an impact on the result, but 14 points is pretty comprehensive and I still think there was another gear in Tipp, especially up front.
We have generally started games poorly and finished very strongly, so I think even at 15 v 15, we had ridden the early storm and were coming very strongly into the game.

BOSTIK

1373 wrote: »

Just read the kk thread on here and you’ll enter a world of bitterness and crazy. They all seem to have forgotten that bad refereeing got them into the final .

A few gas men posting there alright.

The reasonable lads aren't tolerating them though.

kilkennyboy

The initial reaction was to lash out and try to defend Hogan and blame Owens
But pictures don't lie and its fairly clear he probably made the right call.
I felt we were in big trouble once the goal went in.we had hurled ok but weren't making it count on the score board .
When tipp forwards get space and ball they are nearly unhurlable .thought our backs tried hard against a tsunami of ball.
But ultimately they were fighting a losing battle from early in the second half.
Our whole game plan is about getting pressure on opposing teams and the use of ball by McGrath made that a lost cause.15/15 we still lose maybe not as much
But felt tied had turned before the red.
We found a few this year we need to find a few more .sure we will stay at it anyway.
Enjoy the winter

El Vino

kilkennyboy wrote: »

The initial reaction was to lash out and try to defend Hogan and blame Owens
But pictures don't lie and its fairly clear he probably made the right call.
I felt we were in big trouble once the goal went in.we had hurled ok but weren't making it count on the score board .
When tipp forwards get space and ball they are nearly unhurlable .thought our backs tried hard against a tsunami of ball.
But ultimately they were fighting a losing battle from early in the second half.
Our whole game plan is about getting pressure on opposing teams and the use of ball by McGrath made that a lost cause.15/15 we still lose maybe not as much
But felt tied had turned before the red.
We found a few this year we need to find a few more .sure we will stay at it anyway.
Enjoy the winter

We should be eternally gratefully to ye for putting Limerick out, from the part of the county I'm from losing a final to Limerick is the thing that has kept me awake since it's been possible for 2 teams from the same province contest the final!

El Vino

On a separate note I'd love to know how the technology for Hawkeye works out if the ball is over the bar. Is there a danger that what it measures includes your hand around the ball so that it seems like more of the ball has crossed the line than actually has?

Mantis Toboggan

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I know we have to enjoy this, but cant help already thinking a year on. The young lads have come good this summer when it mattered. Love the look of Kehoe and Browne, serious engines. Barry Heff came of age and i owe an apology to Seamus Kennedy for, if not quite writing him off, then at least not recognising his worth. A great summer for him. Dont anticipate any retirements, unless Bonner cant quite get back, and the 20s still to come next weekend - imagine the competition there's going to be for places come next spring! But lets savour this for a while anyway and hopefully future takes care of itself.

I suppose the main thing is that Sheedy will stay on, i'd imagine it's a given but he's walked out before and wouldn't give a straight answer when asked last night.

I'd imagine we'll have 3 or 4 step up from this years under 20's. Certainly need to be looked at. Hopefully next year some of the younger lads could become a regular. Jake Morris probably the closest. Hopefully Brian McGrath can force his way in and at least get a couple of league games. Ger Browne also.

Certainly won't be far off next year and finally putting all Ireland's back to back has to be the motivation.

Vinnie222

Donadea Leo wrote: »

The sending off was a shame as it killed the game. I had thought it was harsh originally as I didn t think Richie intended to elbow him in the face but he was going at him with full on aggression and I do think the elbow came up as a reaction to Barrett stepping out of way. Players do have a responsibility to protect other players and Richie didn t do this, it was very dangerous and deserved a red for that reason.
As regards, Barrett diving, no way he got an elbow smack in the chin from a player running flat out at him. I d like to see Jackie Tyrell stand up after that happening to him.
It is not surprising these ex kilkenny players are complaining and struggling with defeat, they are not used to losing and don't like it. It's 2015 since they won it, it might take a few years before they win it again, deep down they know that and that s what really hurts I

Thats a red all day

shockframe

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

I suppose the main thing is that Sheedy will stay on, i'd imagine it's a given but he's walked out before and wouldn't give a straight answer when asked last night.

I'd imagine we'll have 3 or 4 step up from this years under 20's. Certainly need to be looked at. Hopefully next year some of the younger lads could become a regular. Jake Morris probably the closest. Hopefully Brian McGrath can force his way in and at least get a couple of league games. Ger Browne also.

Certainly won't be far off next year and finally putting all Ireland's back to back has to be the motivation.

Sheedy was 3 years in the job by the time 2010 was won. Quite clearly needed a break from the whole thing. The demands on managers started to go up tenfold in the late 00s so something had to give. He left Tipp in a very good place the last time but it was a struggle for a while afterwards.

He's only a year into it now but he's probably needed by Tipp more than ever. Last year looked fairly bleak with the fallout after the early exit and Limerick winning but he's steadied the ship again. He'll give it one more season at least but his legacy is secure regardless.

Chalk McHugh

kilkennyboy wrote: »

The initial reaction was to lash out and try to defend Hogan and blame Owens
But pictures don't lie and its fairly clear he probably made the right call.
I felt we were in big trouble once the goal went in.we had hurled ok but weren't making it count on the score board .
When tipp forwards get space and ball they are nearly unhurlable .thought our backs tried hard against a tsunami of ball.
But ultimately they were fighting a losing battle from early in the second half.
Our whole game plan is about getting pressure on opposing teams and the use of ball by McGrath made that a lost cause.15/15 we still lose maybe not as much
But felt tied had turned before the red.
We found a few this year we need to find a few more .sure we will stay at it anyway.
Enjoy the winter

Ye hurled very well for first 20 minutes and had Tipp looking a little nervous and frustrated. 08 v 0-3 wasn't reflective of that early dominance. If it went to 1-9 v 0-3 and it easily could have then Tipp were in bother i felt.

When O Meara's goal went in i felt Kilkenny were going to regret not having a bigger lead built up and Tipp were very happy to be level all of a sudden. Being level after Kilkenny doing most of the hurling was a nice spot to be in for Tipp and i fully expected Tipp to go on and win the second half. The Tipp dressing room was going to be in a good place at ht even before Hogan's red card. They had played nowhere near their best and were a point in front. I felt a big second half coming up. The red card finished the game imo. I know Tipp beat Wexford with 14 for 25 minutes but i couldn't see Tipp letting this chance slip through their fingers against a team who have caused them a lot of hurt.

Full respect to Kilkenny, they fought manfully to the end but it was Tipp's day. Tipp's year. A great day for Tipperary hurling and will live long in the memory.

Joe_ Public

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

While the sending off can't fully explain Kilkennys shocking performance in the second half, I've never seen such a concerted effort to dismiss a match as being already over by the time of the sending off when there was just a single point in it and the losing team at the time had been the much more comfortable team for the majority of the game at that point

Sorry for going back a bit here, but think this is a point worth addressing. Seems to be a narrative, correct me if i'm wrong, that the red card was the games massive turning point that turned a dominant display by Kilkenny almost instantly into a losing one. But the stats dont bear this up at all.

Fair play to Derek McGrath on the SG for alluding to it, i havent seem all the analysis of the match so if anyone else pointed it out, i didnt hear or read it. Fact is, from 17 minutes to 32 minutes Tipp outscored Kilkenny 1-5 to 0-2 while, in that period, KK turned over more than 70% of possession. So, i'm afraid that simply blows the idea that KK were the superior team for the "majority" of the match out of the water. They had the better start and that was it.

That's not to say, of course, that the red card didn't have a huge bearing on the game, or that anyone was actually suggesting the game was over at that point (havent seen or heard that myself i have to say). Nor was it the huge turning point that many have described it as, NOM's goal was more of an obvious turning point from what i saw of it.

Joe_ Public

Just to be exact, I dont think its quite fair or accurate to say Sheedy walked in 2010. His term was up, he had a high profile job in the bank and he'd given 3 hard years. I dont believe many, while disappointed, held it against him in any way.

Have been struck this year by how often players in interviews have spoken about how much they were enjoying their hurling. Recall an early interview from Bonner when that word and "freedom" was liberally sprinkled throughout his quotes. And heard Noel being interviewed by Brian Carty last friday and saying the same thing. I think thats down to the clear focus set by sheedy and the high performance vibe of the whole set-up. And what players wouldn't relish an evening going training under the guise of Eamon O'Shea? There were a couple of blips along the way, of course, but for me the dominant feeling watching them play was the sheer joy of it, working their nuts off so they were able to express themselves the way they wanted. Thats what this team are, i think: an absolute joy and be nice to think there's a bit more to come.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Sorry for going back a bit here, but think this is a point worth addressing. Seems to be a narrative, correct me if i'm wrong, that the red card was the games massive turning point that turned a dominant display by Kilkenny almost instantly into a losing one. But the stats dont bear this up at all.

Fair play to Derek McGrath on the SG for alluding to it, i havent seem all the analysis of the match so if anyone else pointed it out, i didnt hear or read it. Fact is, from 17 minutes to 32 minutes Tipp outscored Kilkenny 1-5 to 0-2 while, in that period, KK turned over more than 70% of possession. So, i'm afraid that simply blows the idea that KK were the superior team for the "majority" of the match out of the water. They had the better start and that was it.

That's not to say, of course, that the red card didn't have a huge bearing on the game, or that anyone was actually suggesting the game was over at that point (havent seen or heard that myself i have to say). Nor was it the huge turning point that many have described it as, NOM's goal was more of an obvious turning point from what i saw of it.

Do not misquote me, I never implied that Kilkenny "were the superior team for the "majority" of the match" Richie Hogan was sent off at 33 mins, I implied Kilkenny were the more comfortable team for the majority of the time elapsed at that stage. Explain how your stats blow that out of the water

adrian522

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Sorry for going back a bit here, but think this is a point worth addressing. Seems to be a narrative, correct me if i'm wrong, that the red card was the games massive turning point that turned a dominant display by Kilkenny almost instantly into a losing one. But the stats dont bear this up at all.

Personally I think that Kilkenny had started strongly, then Tipp had come back very strongly themselves. I don't think anyone said that Kilkenny were dominant for the whole first half, but it was a fairly even game.

Kilkenny probably needed to be further ahead after 20 mins or so, they had at least 2 bad wides and a good goal chance. Tipperary then had a period on top, scoring 1-2 as you say but I don't think you can say necessarily that that would have continued for the rest of the game.

Tipp probably favorites having weathered the early storm and had the wind to come but from a Kilkenny point of view I still felt we were in with a good chance and felt it would be tight well into the second half.

Obviously the red card changed all that, and in fairness Tipp played their hand brilliantly from then on and Kilkenny seemed to have no idea how to respond.

It's obvious to me that the red card was the main turning point as the way Kilkenny setup to limit space and prevent the backs from delivering good ball into the forwards was not going to be possible a man down so it was pretty much damage limitation from then on.

Joe_ Public

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

Do not misquote me, I never implied that Kilkenny "were the superior team for the "majority" of the match" Richie Hogan was sent off at 33 mins, I implied Kilkenny were the more comfortable team for the majority of the time elapsed at that stage. Explain how your stats blow that out of the water

Ok, happy to retract. Not that i really misquoted you or anything. Kilkenny were dominant for the first 17 minutes i would say, Tipp took control for the next 15 prior to sending off. So i guess you are technically correct in what you say! Sincerely apologies. I guess I might rephrase it by suggesting that having conceded 1-5 in previous 15 minutes and turned over 70% of possession, Kilkenny weren't exactly comfortable at that position. But who knows if or how they might have turned that around.

Incidentally, your comment about the "concerted effort" to dismiss the game as being already over prior to red card is intriguing. I havent heard or read such a suggestion, but to be fair, i have probably read less than half the coverage so maybe i have simply missed it.

Joe_ Public

adrian522 wrote: »

Personally I think that Kilkenny had started strongly, then Tipp had come back very strongly themselves. I don't think anyone said that Kilkenny were dominant for the whole first half, but it was a fairly even game.

Kilkenny probably needed to be further ahead after 20 mins or so, they had at least 2 bad wides and a good goal chance. Tipperary then had a period on top, scoring 1-2 as you say but I don't think you can say necessarily that that would have continued for the rest of the game.

Tipp probably favorites having weathered the early storm and had the wind to come but from a Kilkenny point of view I still felt we were in with a good chance and felt it would be tight well into the second half.

Obviously the red card changed all that, and in fairness Tipp played their hand brilliantly from then on and Kilkenny seemed to have no idea how to respond.

It's obvious to me that the red card was the main turning point as the way Kilkenny setup to limit space and prevent the backs from delivering good ball into the forwards was not going to be possible a man down so it was pretty much damage limitation from then on.

Most of that is pretty fair comment i would agree. We most certainly cant answer what would have happened without the red card with absolute conviction. Seemed to me a couple of the Kilkenny players, Mullen, maybe Richie and Buckley, weren't 100% for whatever reason, so i think that was an issue for ye, however the bench might have responded. The hook by John McGrath early on was significant, would have turned a bad start into a horrible one.

Its true Tipp probably arent the team you want to go a man down to, given how their whole game is predicated on locating space, but i would be asking questions of how Kilkenny set up for it. 5-10 minutes of lumping in high ball is ok, but to persist for 30-35 seemed a bit odd to me? I dont think it would have changed the result, but the damage you refer to might have been limited more with a more subtle game plan i think. I do understand why it can be sometimes hard to question the manager, but i wonder if cody has to be questioned in this instance?

adrian522

I don't disagree with any of that. Cody is certainly not above criticism and all the talk about the red card is probably masking a lot of short comings.

We saw similar problems in the Leinster final when Kilkenny went chasing goals far too early and then on Sunday the persistence with raining high ball down on the Tipp full back line was beyond idiotic.

I think Mullen certainly wasn't 100% but I wouldn't be too critical of starting him as he had been going so well and even if you get 35-40 mins out of him you are going to take that risk. Buckley hasn't been at the pace of the game all season. So maybe Leahy should have started mid-field.

Charlie69

Congratulations to Tipperary on the victory lads... I said before on here that this team had hugely underachieved over the years and that I believed Sheedy would get the best out of this group of players again.

I was delighted for Noel McGrath after everything he has been through, he's a fantastic hurler and also one of the games gentlemen.

We're obviously very disappointed but we'll be back... enjoy the celebrations.