The Tipperary GAA (Club and Intercounty) Thread

Charlie69

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I don't believe i said anything about not 'voting' for Tommy?

I know you didnt... apologies if it came across that way.

Chalk McHugh

Charlie69 wrote: »

I suppose a bit like P Maher on the KK thread I wouldn't expect Tommy to get too many votes around here

Watching Tommy Walsh for a decade and fantastic player. He'd be my 4th pick out of all the half backs. Problem is there are three other incredible players that imo are better hurlers in the half back line. Four into three dont go so tough luck Tommy.

Charlie69

iebamm2580 wrote: »

i d have tommy in in no doubt i can see past my blue and gold glasses unlike some on the kk thread im sure you would agree, i again would consider leaving whelahan out and having jj paudie and tommy.

It was actually a Wexford man who seemed to have the biggest issue with Paudie on the KK thread.... Maher a fantastic hurler and leader.

iebamm2580

Charlie69 wrote: »

It was actually a Wexford man who seemed to have the biggest issue with Paudie on the KK thread.... Maher a fantastic hurler and leader.

First it was some kk guy who was shocked somebody called podser maher was selected. Anyway thats off topic.

Charlie69

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Watching Tommy Walsh for a decade and fantastic player. He'd be my 4th pick out of all the half backs. Problem is there are three other incredible players that imo are better hurlers in the half back line. Four into three dont go so tough luck Tommy.

Glad you're not picking it so... if you cant find room for Tommy there wouldnt be too many KK lads on it.:)

Chalk McHugh

Charlie69 wrote: »

You're entitled to your opinion my friend... I couldn't agree though. I think Tommy won an allstar at midfeild also and is described by Tipps Eoin Kelly as the best hurler of all time.

Brian Cody said JJ was best defender he ever saw. Whelehan was named on player of the century i think at wing back. And Paudie Maher is a Tipp collossas. Tommys versatility maybe counting against him a small bit for me that half back line names itself.

Charlie69

iebamm2580 wrote: »

First it was some kk guy who was shocked somebody called podser maher was selected. Anyway thats off topic.

You'll always get a few.

Joe_ Public

Charlie69 wrote: »

I know you didnt... apologies if it came across that way.

No worries. I was just saying it's a horrible line to have to pick, if you can't do a bit of manoeuvring elsewhere. I'm going to feel uneasy no matter which of the four i omit.

Chalk McHugh

Charlie69 wrote: »

Glad you're not picking it so... if you cant find room for Tommy there wouldnt be too many KK lads on it.:)

I find room for those i think merit it. County allegiance doesn't come into it.

Charlie69

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

I find room for those i think merit it. County allegiance doesn't come into it.

Charlie69

Joe_ Public wrote: »

No worries. I was just saying it's a horrible line to have to pick, if you can't do a bit of manoeuvring elsewhere. I'm going to feel uneasy no matter which of the four i omit.

Agreed

Chalk McHugh

My top 15 from watching over the years (not restricted positions like on the RTE Poll)

1 D Fitzhenry (Wex)
2 T Walsh (KK)
3 B Lohan (Clare)
4 B Corcoran (Cork)
5 B Whelehan (Off)
6 P Maher (Tipp)
7 JJ Delaney (KK)
8 K McGrath (Wat)
9 T Dunne (Tipp)
10 TJ Reid ((KK)
11 H Shefflin (KK)
12 J Canning (Gal)
13 J Mullane (Wat)
14 DJ Carey (KK)
15 E Kelly (Tipp)

KK 5
Tipp 3
Wat 2
Cork 1
Clare 1
Galway 1
Offaly 1
Wexford 1

Mantis Toboggan

Surely Seamie Callanan over Mullane Chalk?

Chalk McHugh

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Surely Seamie Callanan over Mullane Chalk?

Had to leave a few out. Nicky English. John Leahy. Patrick Horgan. Jamesie O Connor. Paul Flynn etc. So many great players. Seamie Callinan not a corner forward and i had to put DJ Carey in there somewhere. Great player Seamie but i'm happy with that 15.

robbiezero

Horrible line to pick is right. you could make a good case for any 3 of Maher, Tommy Walsh, JJ and Whelahan. All icons, players of their generation and more, great longevity and consistency of performance.

Not sure I'd be putting JJ back in full back either, while he was very good in there, his best years were at half back.

Charlie69

robbiezero wrote: »

Horrible line to pick is right. you could make a good case for any 3 of Maher, Tommy Walsh, JJ and Whelahan. All icons, players of their generation and more, great longevity and consistency of performance.

Not sure I'd be putting JJ back in full back either, while he was very good in there, his best years were at half back.

It's always going to be subjective with these best of all time picks, very hard not to let a little bias creep in also. I genuinely think Brian Whelehan was a fantastic hurler but he was more of a sweeper than a defender... excellent reader of the game and a great striker off either side but his direct opponent could still be picking him off for a good few scores.

One of the best half back displays I've witnessed in an All-Ireland final was Declan Fanning in 2009... he was unbelievable that day, brilliant in the air and drove Kilkenny back all day long and could easily have won the MOTM award.... but Tommy, JJ and Paudie Maher hit that level of performance every single time they took the field, driving the opposition back and dominating their area of the field( you end up taking it for granted).. that's the difference imo.

mountgomery burns

Problem I have with that team, the full back line has a center back and two full backs. The half back line has 3 wing backs in reality. Problem with picking lines, and RTE have nominated some players for every line of the field almost at this stage.

Delaney and Walsh the wing backs for me anyway, surprised that generates debate even with the great players that have played there in the past 40 years.

Chalk McHugh

Brian Whelehan was named on the team of the Millenium at wing back. For a weaker county he won 2 All Irelands with Offaly and was their best player by a distance. He won 4 All Ire club titles with Birr and i believe he won man of the match in 4 or 5 of those 6 All Ireland wins. A truly remarkable hurler. A nailed on num 5 for me.

mountgomery burns

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Brian Whelehan was named on the team of the Millenium. For a weaker county he won 2 All Irelands with Offaly and was their best player by a distance. He won 4 All Ire club titles with Birr and i believe he won man of the match in 4 or 5 of those 6 All Ireland wins. A truly remarkable hurler. A nailed on num 5 for me.

JJ and Tommy will be on the team of the next millennium

Chalk McHugh

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Problem I have with that team, the full back line has a center back and two full backs. The half back line has 3 wing backs in reality. Problem with picking lines, and RTE have nominated some players for every line of the field almost at this stage.

Delaney and Walsh the wing backs for me anyway, surprised that generates debate even with the great players that have played there in the past 40 years.

Yea dont agree with Diarmuid O Sullivan at corner back on RTE's team. He never played corner back.

As for Brian Corcoran, he started at corner back and in 1992 at 19 years of age won Texaco Player of the Year and won man of the match in the All Ire final when very few players from the losing team won that award. He also played centre back and full forward so i've no problem with Corcoran slotting in that RTE team in the corner. Have him in my team in the corner too.

*
I was in the Canal end for the 1992 final. It was during the first half and Kilkenny had a 65 into the Canal End goal. It was a poor day with rain lashing down. A Cork selector ran over to Brian Corcoran who was close by the goals and gave him a towel to dry his hurley. Corcoran wiped down the hurley but instead of handing back the towel he handed back his hurley and the selector proceeded to run off leaving Corcoran with just a towel for company. The mistake was soon noticed but not before many Kilkenny people in the Canal End had a right good chuckle and Corcoran got a right bit of abuse. A small memory of the final i have to this day.

Chalk McHugh

mountgomery burns wrote: »

JJ and Tommy will be on the team of the next millennium

We'll never know that unfortunately

Charlie69

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Brian Whelehan was named on the team of the Millenium at wing back. For a weaker county he won 2 All Irelands with Offaly and was their best player by a distance. He won 4 All Ire club titles with Birr and i believe he won man of the match in 4 or 5 of those 6 All Ireland wins. A truly remarkable hurler. A nailed on num 5 for me.

Yes but DJ carey will tell you he loved marking Whelehan but always struggled on Kevin Kinahan for example, now Kinahan will never make these best of teams but was a great defender. Both DJ and Henry would prefer to see Sean Og running over to them than Wayne Sherlock for example. No way a wing forward wanted to mark Tommy. (apart from Lar )

Brian Whelehan was a swashbuckling hurler that hit a lot of ball which caught the eye but believe me a Wayne Sherlock, Martin Hanamy or a Paddy Stapleton would give you nightmares.

Chalk McHugh

Charlie69 wrote: »

Yes but DJ carey will tell you he loved marking Whelehan but always struggled on Kevin Kinahan for example, now Kinahan will never make these best of teams but was a great defender. Both DJ and Henry would prefer to see Sean Og running over to them than Wayne Sherlock for example. No way a wing forward wanted to mark Tommy. (apart from Lar )

Brian Whelehan was a swashbuckling hurler that hit a lot of ball which caught the eye but believe me a Wayne Sherlock, Martin Hanamy or a Paddy Stapleton would give you nightmares.

Whelehan will say he loved marking DJ. In fact it was well known that DJ rarely got the better of Brian Whelahan whenever they met.

Chalk McHugh

Charlie69 wrote: »

Yes but DJ carey will tell you he loved marking Whelehan but always struggled on Kevin Kinahan for example, now Kinahan will never make these best of teams but was a great defender. Both DJ and Henry would prefer to see Sean Og running over to them than Wayne Sherlock for example. No way a wing forward wanted to mark Tommy. (apart from Lar )

Brian Whelehan was a swashbuckling hurler that hit a lot of ball which caught the eye but believe me a Wayne Sherlock, Martin Hanamy or a Paddy Stapleton would give you nightmares.

Paddy Stapleton? No offence but he's nowhere near the elite players.

Charlie69

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Whelehan will say he loved marking DJ. In fact it was well known that DJ rarely got the better of Brian Whelahan whenever they met.

Brian didn't like marking DJ or any player that went deep and ran at him... he won the MOTM award in the 98 final at FULL FORWARD after being moved off Brian McEvoy who was taking him to the cleaners in the position you're picking him.
Look like I said Whelahan was a wonderful hurler and you obviously are a huge fan and you won't be alone there. Impossible to pick these teams.

Charlie69

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Paddy Stapleton? No offence but he's nowhere near the elite players.

Agreed but you missed my point.

Chalk McHugh

Charlie69 wrote: »

Brian didn't like marking DJ or any player that went deep and ran at him... he won the MOTM award in the 98 final at FULL FORWARD after being moved off Brian McEvoy who was taking him to the cleaners in the position you're picking him.
Look like I said Whelahan was a wonderful hurler and you obviously are a huge fan and you won't be alone there. Impossible to pick these teams.

Brian Whelehan was quite ill leading up to the '98 All Ire final. He had come down with a bad bug and the management weren't even sure that he'd make it.

His legs were very weak he's said himself and instead of being withdrawn at ht which he thought he might they decided to stick him up full forward. And the rest as they say is history ..

MfMan

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Problem I have with that team, the full back line has a center back and two full backs. The half back line has 3 wing backs in reality. Problem with picking lines, and RTE have nominated some players for every line of the field almost at this stage.

Delaney and Walsh the wing backs for me anyway, surprised that generates debate even with the great players that have played there in the past 40 years.

My 2P worth, I'd have Whelehan and Walsh as the wing-backs; Walsh was a force of nature. Good as Paudie Maher was/is, he's just a better version of O'hAilpin, I couldn't put him on a par with Whelehan or Walsh.
As a specialist corner-back, Ollie Canning was far superior to Brian Corcoran, ask Eoin Kelly or Charlie Carter for two.

Charlie69

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Brian Whelehan was quite ill leading up to the '98 All Ire final. He had come down with a bad bug and the management weren't even sure that he'd make it.

His legs were very weak he's said himself and instead of being withdrawn at ht which he thought he might they decided to stick him up full forward. And the rest as they say is history ..

He didn't look too sick when he went up to the forwards and played a blinder... we'll have to agree to disagree.

Chalk McHugh

Loving the debate lads. Nothing beats the game of hurling

Charlie69

MfMan wrote: »

My 2P worth, I'd have Whelehan and Walsh as the wing-backs; Walsh was a force of nature. Good as Paudie Maher was/is, he's just a better version of O'hAilpin, I couldn't put him on a par with Whelehan or Walsh.
As a specialist corner-back, Ollie Canning was far superior to Brian Corcoran, ask Eoin Kelly or Charlie Carter for two.

Ollie canning... brilliant defender.. an absolute beast... young Barrett or Paul Murphy in his pomp better than Corcoran( at corner back} imo also.

Chalk McHugh

Ollie Canning fantastic corner back. And many top corner forwards who played against him say he was their toughest opponent. Unlucky not to make my team but Brian Corcoran had to make it as he was a colossas. And he won Hurler of the Year as a 19 year old corner back so that enabled me to put him in the corner. I know he played most of his hurling away from the corner but my team is the best 15 hurlers ive ever seen and Corcoran makes that team.

Charlie69

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Ollie Canning fantastic corner back. And many top corner forwards who played against him say he was their toughest opponent. Unlucky not to make my team but Brian Corcoran had to make it as he was a colossas. And he won Hurler of the Year as a 19 year old corner back so that enabled me to put him in the corner. I know he played most of his hurling away from the corner but my team is the best 15 hurlers ive ever seen and Corcoran makes that team.

You won't be surprised to hear I thought picking Corcoran for hurler of the year in 1992 was a terrible decision... Pat O'Neill was brilliant all year including MOTM in the All-Ireland final... that's in my (hugely biased) opinion though .

Chalk McHugh

Charlie69 wrote: »

You won't be surprised to hear I thought picking Corcoran for hurler of the year in 1992 was a terrible decision... Pat O'Neill was brilliant all year including MOTM in the All-Ireland final... that's in my (hugely biased) opinion though .

Yea he was a nice hurler. Not the most mobile man but lovely wrists and a pure striker of the sliotar.

Was Pat Dwyer playing that day?

Chalk McHugh

Charlie69 wrote: »

You won't be surprised to hear I thought picking Corcoran for hurler of the year in 1992 was a terrible decision... Pat O'Neill was brilliant all year including MOTM in the All-Ireland final... that's in my (hugely biased) opinion though .

So you're a cat, Charlie. I was supporting Kilkenny in that 1992 final and always do when they play Cork. But thats as far as my Kilkenny support goes

Charlie69

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Yea he was a nice hurler. Not the most mobile man but lovely wrists and a pure striker of the sliotar.

Was Pat Dwyer playing that day?

Yes Pat was playing and had a very good game... another Kevin Kinahan type who quietly went about his business without any fuss... savage full back.

MfMan

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Ollie Canning fantastic corner back. And many top corner forwards who played against him say he was their toughest opponent. Unlucky not to make my team but Brian Corcoran had to make it as he was a colossas. And he won Hurler of the Year as a 19 year old corner back so that enabled me to put him in the corner. I know he played most of his hurling away from the corner but my team is the best 15 hurlers ive ever seen and Corcoran makes that team.

Corcoran was very good that year, but because he was new on the scene, became a bit of a media darling which influenced Hurler of the Year selections a bit I feel. Pat O'Neill was very good that year as I recall, as he was again in '93, to Galway's detriment :-(

Chalk McHugh

Charlie69 wrote: »

Yes Pat was playing and had a very good game... another Kevin Kinahan type who quietly went about his business without any fuss... savage full back.

One Kilkenny man that doesn't have the big profile that some others have is Willie O Connor. His brother Eddie was a good hurler but Willie was one of the best defenders of any era. Teak tough, great reader of the game and so fast to rise the ball and clear it. Incrediblly skillful player. After Tommy and JJ for me he was the best Kilkenny defender ive seen. God knows there's been enough of them.

Chalk McHugh

MfMan wrote: »

Corcoran was very good that year, but because he was new on the scene, became a bit of a media darling which influenced Hurler of the Year selections a bit I feel. Pat O'Neill was very good that year as I recall, as he was again in '93, to Galway's detriment :-(

Yea fair point. He was a monster for a 19 year old though. Strong as a horse.

Galway threw the 1990 final away. Again i was at that one on the Hill at the Cork end. I never want Cork to win so was disappointed that day.

Charlie69

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

One Kilkenny man that doesn't have the big profile that some others have is Willie O Connor. His brother Eddie was a good hurler but Willie was one of the best defenders of any era. Teak tough, great reader of the game and so fast to rise the ball and clear it. Incrediblly skillful player. After Tommy and JJ for me he was the best Kilkenny defender ive seen. God knows there's been enough of them.

Great player... a bit of speed over the first five yards and an immaculate first touch are great attributes for any position but vital for corner back. So many good players over the years, like i said Cathal Barrett or Brendan Maher very hard to leave out of any team.

Chalk McHugh

Charlie69 wrote: »

Great player... a bit of speed over the first five yards and an immaculate first touch are great attributes for any position but vital for corner back.

Wasn't it Franz Beckenbaur who was once accused of being slow to get from A to B. His reply ' i dont start from A, though' or something similiar. The 6 inches between the ears seperates the best from the rest.

iebamm2580

MfMan wrote: »

My 2P worth, I'd have Whelehan and Walsh as the wing-backs; Walsh was a force of nature. Good as Paudie Maher was/is, he's just a better version of O'hAilpin, I couldn't put him on a par with Whelehan or Walsh.
As a specialist corner-back, Ollie Canning was far superior to Brian Corcoran, ask Eoin Kelly or Charlie Carter for two.

In my biased view i would have paudie before whelahan or Walsh, will be a massive loss to us when he retires, has it all size skill can take a score, not many of the others have all those attributes.

maximo31

Tipp V Galway '88 on TG4 at 4.05 today if anyone wants a look.....

robbiezero

iebamm2580 wrote: »

In my biased view i would have paudie before whelahan or Walsh, will be a massive loss to us when he retires, has it all size skill can take a score, not many of the others have all those attributes.

Same. A colossus for us in the last decade.
Better version of O'hAilpin, Christ Almighty.
O'hAilpin was a limited enough hurler but one of the best athletes of that generation. Paudie is an incredible hurler.

iebamm2580

Thought that was an insult alright to compare him in anyway to o hailpin. hurlers like ohailpin are ten a penny nowadays with all the extra gym work being done. Big difference in having size and skill.

Chalk McHugh

1988 was a tough loss for Tipp. What i remember of the game is John Leahy scoring a goal in the second half that was pulled up for a free in to Tipp instead. And Pat Fox drop pucking a goal attempt from close to the Galway goal that went straight at John Commins. A yard left or right and was a certain goal. English and Fox had poor games by their high standards. I heard Fox say he wanted the ground to open up and swallow him when he missed that goal as hardly anything went right for him. Donie O Connel should have passed the ball to Fox for a goal chance in first half when Fox was fres inside but he took a handy point instead. That was a great Galway team though and the two teams had a savage rivalry at the time.

Mantis Toboggan

Half time in the 88 final, Galway look far superior. Tipp hitting loads of aimless ground balls to no-one. Nicky with 2 poor misses from place balls. 3 Bonners badly struggling. Very little in the way of team play, it's generally get it and hit it as fast as possible regardless of where it goes and shoot from ridiculous angles. They'd be annihilated in today's game.

Chalk McHugh

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Half time in the 88 final, Galway look far superior. Tipp hitting loads of aimless ground balls to no-one. Nicky with 2 poor misses from place balls. 3 Bonners badly struggling. Very little in the way of team play, it's generally get it and hit it as fast as possible regardless of where it goes and shoot from ridiculous angles. They'd be annihilated in today's game.

Only one Bonnar playing. And he was non existant in first half. Never rated him as a good hurler.

Chalk McHugh

Nickys boss on his hurley was tiny. Didn't leave any room for even the slightest of miss hits.

Mantis Toboggan

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Only one Bonnar playing. And he was non existant in first half. Never rated him as a good hurler.

Could have sworn a saw Cormac in the first half. TG4 don't even put up the score let alone the teams. No wonder I didn't see em anywhere near the ball.