The Tipperary GAA (Club and Intercounty) Thread

digzy

digzy wrote: »

‘Detractors’ ?
Ah here....

It was a commemorative jersey to mark a significant event in the history of the gaa and our country at large.
I think it’s those of us who respect the occasion for what it was (as remembering something horrible but somber) are treating the jersey with the respect it deserves, hence the wearing of it as a ‘once off’. I don’t see how that detracts from anything...the opposite is the case.
I don’t see the need for it being treated like ‘ my lucky underpants’.

Im not suggesting you per se, but some of the people against wearing the white and green once more, have been very militant and overreacting to a perfectly legitimate and valid suggestion.

The Lost Sheep

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

It was a special one off jersey for a special occasion. That tipp won was fantastic but the jersey should be left from the tipp team wearing it now.

polled where and who exactly? Link to such a poll?
They tapped into a wider fan base through winning not what they wore.

Polled on twitter

twitter.com/OrgaRetro/status/1330544788660219909

Mantis Toboggan

Gunner I'm looking for that Jersey, the one you're selling is that identical to the one the lads wore with Mick Hogan on it?

Tally Wager

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

It was a special one off jersey for a special occasion. That tipp won was fantastic but the jersey should be left from the tipp team wearing it now.

polled where and who exactly? Link to such a poll?
They tapped into a wider fan base through winning not what they wore.

Well played Tipp Gunner , they took the bait ! Nothing like a bit of free Advertising ! Nice stuff on the Site !

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

Polled on twitter

twitter.com/OrgaRetro/status/1330544788660219909

Some random poll on twitter means so much. oh tipp county board should deff change because of that poll.

The Lost Sheep

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Some random poll on twitter means so much. oh tipp county board should deff change because of that poll.

Tipp county board can do what they like at the end of the day, there was no one going to tell them otherwise, but 92% of a poll of over 600 is a fair indication of the consensus out there. As many sites as you like could run 'random' polls and i dont think the result would be any different.

Look, a decision has been made and while I don't understand why we couldnt use the jerseys again personally, ill respect it. I think the players felt that it could put unnecessary pressure on them and that's a fair point too.

Lets hope for a great result against Mayo.

Tally Wager

Tally Wager wrote: »

Well played Tipp Gunner , they took the bait ! Nothing like a bit of free Advertising ! Nice stuff on the Site !

Well, they kept pushing so its only fair I enlighten them

digzy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well, they kept pushing so its only fair I enlighten them

Teams wear ‘commemorative’ jerseys all the time in various codes....often just to flog ‘em.
If people wanna buy overpriced t shirts best of luck to them.

Given the historical significance, I think it apt to wear it on one specific occasion. Once again I couldn’t care less what they wear. Best of luck to the team and best of luck to jersey floggers and buyers too!!

Mantis Toboggan

Don't understand all the hate for the green and white Jersey I really liked it.

digzy

‘Detractors’ ... ‘hate’
Haven’t seen those sentiments from anybody....

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

Tipp county board can do what they like at the end of the day, there was no one going to tell them otherwise, but 92% of a poll of over 600 is a fair indication of the consensus out there. As many sites as you like could run 'random' polls and i dont think the result would be any different.

Look, a decision has been made and while I don't understand why we couldnt use the jerseys again personally, ill respect it. I think the players felt that it could put unnecessary pressure on them and that's a fair point too.

Lets hope for a great result against Mayo.

It isnt really a fair consensus. 600 people who use social media. Not near being close to what the majority of tipp fans believe.

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Don't understand all the hate for the green and white Jersey I really liked it.

Its not hate at all. Where have people been saying they hate it?
It was worn for a special occasion. It should have been left at that. If provincial and all ireland had went as normal back in summer then it would have been worn in a friendly against Dublin

digzy

digzy wrote: »

‘Detractors’ ... ‘hate’
Haven’t seen those sentiments from anybody....

By detractors, I meant people that are against wearing the jersey again and fair enough they are entitied to their opinion just as much as people who want to see it worn are entitled to theirs.

Anyways, delighted for Cahill and Bevans tonight. Great win. I hope they win the final.

The Lost Sheep

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

It isnt really a fair consensus. 600 people who use social media. Not near being close to what the majority of tipp fans believe.

I cant wait to see your survey proving otherwise...ahh thats right, you have none. But you are more correct than the person who has provided hard data of course :rolleyes:

Coybig_

Hopefully we see Cahill in charge of our seniors in 2022.

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

I cant wait to see your survey proving otherwise...ahh thats right, you have none. But you are more correct than the person who has provided hard data of course :rolleyes:

i would believe any thing from the media/tipp sources ahead of some random poll.
Who were the 600 polled? Its a random poll by a twitter account. Not exactly the best data to back up your point.

formerlyET

Coybig_ wrote: »

Hopefully we see Cahill in charge of our seniors in 2022.

Eaten bread is soon forgotten. Stay classy, Sheedy and the rest deserve it.

Coybig_

Coybig_ wrote: »

Hopefully we see Cahill in charge of our seniors in 2022.

He is actually very unlucky not to have landed the job for 2019. Sheedy had a lot of credit in the bank after 2010 and of course Declan Kelly's input. That was the difference. In fairness to Sheedy he delivered again in 19 and was unlucky this year but he may have to make a few changes next year and wield the axe. Granted it was an

I'm a huge fan of Liam Cahill and Mikey Bevans though and always have been. They demand so much from every team they are in charge of. I love their brand of hurling and their infectious passion for the game. I hope they land the big one in a few weeks.

The Lost Sheep

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

i would believe any thing from the media/tipp sources ahead of some random poll.
Who were the 600 polled? Its a random poll by a twitter account. Not exactly the best data to back up your point.

As opposed to the zero data you've presented?? Still waiting.

formerlyET

formerlyET wrote: »

Eaten bread is soon forgotten. Stay classy, Sheedy and the rest deserve it.

Sheedy really needs to be ruthless next year and shake things up. We cannot go into a championship without having found 3 or 4 new starters. the backs certainly need an injection of speed. I'd be hoping Craig Morgan and maybe Bryan O'Mara will make the breakthrough. Good chance we might even have retirements. AFAIK, Seamie will be 32, Paudie, Bonnar and Brendan, 31 Noel will be 30. Id like if they all held on, but would understand if they didn't. They owe nothing to Tipp hurling.

Coybig_

formerlyET wrote: »

Eaten bread is soon forgotten. Stay classy, Sheedy and the rest deserve it.

I don't see Sheedy staying on past next year regardless of what he does, even if he wins another AI.

I am very greatful for what he has done. Given me some of the best days out of my life. However is he realistically going to be here long term? No.

Cahill is the best that will be available to us at that point and we need to not mess around.

formerlyET

Coybig_ wrote: »

I don't see Sheedy staying on past next year regardless of what he does, even if he wins another AI.

I am very greatful for what he has done. Given me some of the best days out of my life. However is he realistically going to be here long term? No.

Cahill is the best that will be available to us at that point and we need to not mess around.

There are no garantees. I would have said the same as you until Sheedy left the bank job. WHo knows? Unless you know of plans he has? I know the contract ends, but who is to say he might not look for an extension?

formerlyET

Deleted User wrote: »

Sheedy really needs to be ruthless next year and shake things up. We cannot go into a championship without having found 3 or 4 new starters. the backs certainly need an injection of speed. I'd be hoping Craig Morgan and maybe Bryan O'Mara will make the breakthrough. Good chance we might even have retirements. AFAIK, Seamie will be 32, Paudie, Bonnar and Brendan, 31 Noel will be 30. Id like if they all held on, but would understand if they didn't. They owe nothing to Tipp hurling.

I think Sheedy has a track record of being ruthless. I don't think he needs to prove anything in that regard.

I think you're forgetting the injuries to Bubbles, Kennedy - two players that do perform in big games. Bubbles has proven the difference against Galway before. And we looked like we were going to win that game until the sending off. Thems the breaks.
Paudie and Forde are carrying a knock. I really don't see any change in Callanan's pace or movement to warrant a call for retirement.
As for the McGrath's - they had a long campaign. And if the club championship is put before intercounty as a rule - it's going to become nigh on impossible for them to continue such an output.

From what I seen in the league - Craig Morgan has a long way to go - in terms of physical development - looks very light. Class player but even in club hurling he can look light at the business end of championship. I think he needs longer. Bryan O'Mara is better placed to make inroads - although still light. I think Quigley needs a serious look at. Dillon Quirke will come on again and Conor Bowe is another wing with a lot of pace and energy that needs to be looked at.

Might be an idea to get Seamus Hennessy to talk to Ger Browne - someone needs to before the guy's career goes into free fall.

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

As opposed to the zero data you've presented?? Still waiting.

I will also take what the coach of team and players have said. It would be a "disservice" as david power said.
And a random poll from a biased source isnt proof of anything

Deleted User wrote: »

Sheedy really needs to be ruthless next year and shake things up. We cannot go into a championship without having found 3 or 4 new starters. the backs certainly need an injection of speed. I'd be hoping Craig Morgan and maybe Bryan O'Mara will make the breakthrough. Good chance we might even have retirements. AFAIK, Seamie will be 32, Paudie, Bonnar and Brendan, 31 Noel will be 30. Id like if they all held on, but would understand if they didn't. They owe nothing to Tipp hurling.

Is making a few changes ruthless. no. its quite natural to change and adapt things slightly. those you name are all in their early 30s. Cant see retirements. And wouldnt be good to lose several of them in one go.

Coybig_ wrote: »

I don't see Sheedy staying on past next year regardless of what he does, even if he wins another AI.

I am very greatful for what he has done. Given me some of the best days out of my life. However is he realistically going to be here long term? No.

Cahill is the best that will be available to us at that point and we need to not mess around.

Great Cahill went away to Waterford first Will have learned lot more than from just staying within comfort zone of just being in tipp.

Coybig_

Coybig_ wrote: »

I don't see Sheedy staying on past next year regardless of what he does, even if he wins another AI.

I am very greatful for what he has done. Given me some of the best days out of my life. However, is he realistically going to be here long term? No.

Cahill is the best that will be available to us at that point and we need to not mess around.

Agreed. Although at this rate, Liam Cahill will be as popular as Jack Charlton down there. And if he wins it out, he'll be able to march his sheep down the quays if he has any

There was an actual debate about whether Willie Maher or Liam Cahill was the best choice for Tipperary manager in 18 before we knew Sheedy was returning. Willie Maher a great guy by all accounts, but with the greatest of respect to him, Cahill and Bevans are streets ahead.

formerlyET

Deleted User wrote: »

Agreed. Although at this rate, Liam Cahill will be as popular as Jack Charlton down there. And if he wins it out, he'll be able to march his sheep down the quays if he has any

There was an actual debate about whether Willie Maher or Liam Cahill was the best choice for Tipperary manager in 18 before we knew Sheedy was returning. Willie Maher a great guy by all accounts, but with the greatest of respect to him, Cahill and Bevans are streets ahead.

I think you're doing a lot of colouring in on the back of a great win for Waterford and a loss for Tipp. It's a KK team that Tipp beat out the gate in the All-Ireland final last year...

Willie Maher has won a lot in the past few years - i think it's a bit much to say anyone is 'streets ahead of him.'

The Lost Sheep

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I will also take what the coach of team and players have said. It would be a "disservice" as david power said.
And a random poll from a biased source isnt proof of anything

Is making a few changes ruthless. no. its quite natural to change and adapt things slightly. those you name are all in their early 30s. Cant see retirements. And wouldnt be good to lose several of them in one go.

Great Cahill went away to Waterford first Will have learned lot more than from just staying within comfort zone of just being in tipp.

Ive acknowledged Davy Power and the teams opinion and fair enough it was their call at the end of the day. A biased source you say? The question was put fairly and people answered either yes or no. But sure im no maths expert we'll just pretend 8 is greater than 92 since you are so keen to flog that horse :rolleyes:


On your question of ruthlessness, Sheedy may have to drop a few long-serving stalwarts so yeah he will have to be ruthless. There is no way the same six can line out at the backs and the insanity of playing Niall O'Meara back there when we had Craig Morgan, Bryan O'Mara and John Meagher on the bench was a particularly crazy call. We actually lost a ball winner in the forwards on top of that.

Im not saying the old guard should retire, im saying they MAY retire. Amateur athletes over the 30 so their priorities in life will be changing. I also said id like them to stay on in some capacity, if you had actually read my post, but they may choose not too and decide to check out with 3 celtic crosses.

As for Cahill and learning. He seems to be doing more teaching. Took a scalp off the old master himself tonight. I hope he doesnt tell the county board to f-off when the time comes and that he will still be willing to take over from sheedy.

Mantis Toboggan

formerlyET wrote: »

I think you're doing a lot of colouring in on the back of a great win for Waterford and a loss for Tipp. It's a KK team that Tipp beat out the gate in the All-Ireland final last year...

Willie Maher has won a lot in the past few years - i think it's a bit much to say anyone is 'streets ahead of him.'

There's no way I'd have Maher ahead of Liam Cahill. No chance. What's Maher even doing this year?

formerlyET

formerlyET wrote: »

I think you're doing a lot of colouring in on the back of a great win for Waterford and a loss for Tipp. It's a KK team that Tipp beat out the gate in the All-Ireland final last year...

Willie Maher has won a lot in the past few years - i think it's a bit much to say anyone is 'streets ahead of him.'

He won a county with an all-dominating Cuala team with Con o'callaghan and the Schuttes. if he didnt win with them there would be absolutely no hope for him. He done nothing with great Tipp u21s that Cahill sent up the line to him. Cahill done back to back and now he has made some difference to Waterford. They didnt win a game in 18 and were whipping boys in 19. Now they are in an All Ireland final.

Sheedy has done a great job for Tipp, but he cant bring the same to the party as he did this year. The Limerick performance was a shambles. They beat us pulling up for the second year running.

formerlyET

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

There's no way I'd have Maher ahead of Liam Cahill. No chance. What's Maher even doing this year?

Who said they would?

Maher has won two club county championships with Cuala - just left the club.

Mantis Toboggan

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

There's no way I'd have Maher ahead of Liam Cahill. No chance. What's Maher even doing this year?

Won the Dub county final with Cuala. Before that he was manager of Faythe harriers and went nowhere with them.

formerlyET

Deleted User wrote: »

Won the Dub county final with Cuala. Before that he was manager of Faythe harriers and went nowhere with them.

won two counties with them.

Cuala didn't make the final the year before he joined them.

formerlyET

Deleted User wrote: »

He won a county with an all-dominating Cuala team with Con o'callaghan and the Schuttes. if he didnt win with them there would be absolutely no hope for him. He done nothing with great Tipp u21s that Cahill sent up the line to him. Cahill done back to back and now he has made some difference to Waterford. They didnt win a game in 18 and were whipping boys in 19. Now they are in an All Ireland final.

Sheedy has done a great job for Tipp, but he cant bring the same to the party as he did this year. The Limerick performance was a shambles. They beat us pulling up for the second year running.

Over simplified. None of that adds up.

formerlyET

Deleted User wrote: »

Won the Dub county final with Cuala. Before that he was manager of Faythe harriers and went nowhere with them.

Manager of Faythe Harriers, yeah?

From The Wexford People:

Maher moves to Cuala
Wexford People4 Dec 2018
WILLIE MAHER helped to preserve Faythe Harriers’ Senior hurling status this year when he was brought in to assist with training duties. However, the highly-regarded Tipperary man won’t be involved again in 2019 after his appointment as manager of two-time All-Ireland Club champions Cuala last week. Maher is a brother-in-law of ex-Harriers and Wexford defender Darren Caulfield.

formerlyET

formerlyET wrote: »

Manager of Faythe Harriers, yeah?

From The Wexford People:

Maher moves to Cuala
Wexford People4 Dec 2018
WILLIE MAHER helped to preserve Faythe Harriers’ Senior hurling status this year when he was brought in to assist with training duties. However, the highly-regarded Tipperary man won’t be involved again in 2019 after his appointment as manager of two-time All-Ireland Club champions Cuala last week. Maher is a brother-in-law of ex-Harriers and Wexford defender Darren Caulfield.

He kept a town club with Lee Chin from relegating. Oh my mistake, hire him now. Sack Sheedy! :rolleyes:

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

Ive acknowledged Davy Power and the teams opinion and fair enough it was their call at the end of the day. A biased source you say? The question was put fairly and people answered either yes or no. But sure im no maths expert we'll just pretend 8 is greater than 92 since you are so keen to flog that horse :rolleyes:

On your question of ruthlessness, Sheedy may have to drop a few long-serving stalwarts so yeah he will have to be ruthless. There is no way the same six can line out at the backs and the insanity of playing Niall O'Meara back there when we had Craig Morgan, Bryan O'Mara and John Meagher on the bench was a particularly crazy call. We actually lost a ball winner in the forwards on top of that.

Im not saying the old guard should retire, im saying they MAY retire. Amateur athletes over the 30 so their priorities in life will be changing. I also said id like them to stay on in some capacity, if you had actually read my post, but they may choose not too and decide to check out with 3 celtic crosses.

As for Cahill and learning. He seems to be doing more teaching. Took a scalp off the old master himself tonight. I hope he doesnt tell the county board to f-off when the time comes and that he will still be willing to take over from sheedy.

Its a tiny twitter poll. far from indepth view of tipp fans.
I just think people in this thread especially over use and misuse the phrase ruthlessness.
I dont see the Callanan, McGraths etc finishing up when theyve so much unfinished business to complete. Just 3 all irelands will drive many of these on to get into a group of only around 20 from tipp who have 4 or more.

Rasputin11

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He kept a town club with Lee Chin from relegating. Oh my mistake, hire him now. Sack Sheedy! :rolleyes:

Heard he's off to Bennettsbridge with Dan Shanahan.

formerlyET

Deleted User wrote: »

He kept a town club with Lee Chin from relegating. Oh my mistake, hire him now. Sack Sheedy! :rolleyes:

Faythe Harriers haven't been in a county final in twenty years...

formerlyET

Deleted User wrote: »

He kept a town club with Lee Chin from relegating. Oh my mistake, hire him now. Sack Sheedy! :rolleyes:

I'd say you've had a few!

Straw man argument - oversimplifying and sarcasm.

You're not engaging with the argument.

You're like a child who sees a winner and is saying gimme, gimme, gimme,

Liam Cahill win more - i want him. Willie Maher bad.

Come on.

It's not that simple. Willie Maher is a class manager and his time will come - two club counties with cuala - and has been part of under age success- produced players and wins at minor and under 21. Liam Cahill is ahead of him at the moment. But to be looking past Sheedy at the moment is a bit much, way over the top and a little groundless. Questioning his ruthlessness is way over the top too. He has only won two all-irelands - is this where you use an eye roll?

The Lost Sheep

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Its a tiny twitter poll. far from indepth view of tipp fans.
I just think people in this thread especially over use and misuse the phrase ruthlessness.
I dont see the Callanan, McGraths etc finishing up when theyve so much unfinished business to complete. Just 3 all irelands will drive many of these on to get into a group of only around 20 from tipp who have 4 or more.

Well coming from someone who thinks an 8% response in a poll gives you a mandate ill seek a second opinion on the meaning of ruthlessness if you dont mind.

I hope the lads hold on for a fourth medal. They would deserve it. I dont think they will all play in the same team together any more but stranger things have happened. We are judging them on a winter championship after all.

formerlyET

formerlyET wrote: »

I'd say you've had a few!

Straw man argument - oversimplifying and sarcasm.
You're not engaging with the argument.

Ah your right, i had this mad idea that managers were judged on actual meritocracy (success). Where on earth did i get that idea?? Ah yeah, i must have had a skinful to be coming up with such mad notions :rolleyes:

We should maybe select a few one-legged players while we are at it next year. Sure they are as good as two-legged players and will prove so in time.

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

Well coming from someone who thinks an 8% response in a poll gives you a mandate ill seek a second opinion on the meaning of ruthlessness if you dont mind.

I hope the lads hold on for a fourth medal. They would deserve it. I dont think they will all play in the same team together any more but stranger things have happened. We are judging them on a winter championship after all.

And you think a random poll on twitter is a mandate. And the word ruthless is overused in this thread. Sure you and others whinged hugely about it earlier this year/few years ago.

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah your right, i had this mad idea that managers were judged on actual meritocracy (success). Where on earth did i get that idea?? Ah yeah, i must have had a skinful to be coming up with such mad notions :rolleyes:

We should maybe select a few one-legged players while we are at it next year. Sure they are as good as two-legged players and will prove so in time.

Coaches cannot ever be judged on winning trophies alone. Otherwise
if you never win a trophy you can never be considered a success. Which is completely false.

formerlyET

Deleted User wrote: »

We should maybe select a few one-legged players while we are at it next year. Sure they are as good as two-legged players and will prove so in time.

Is this a dig at Willie Maher being one eyed?

Ompala

Just realised I never got back to this thread after the game last week - I'll put that down to the footballers leaving me in a state of shock for nearly a week straight (cannot praise them enough for that win!)

On the Sheedy vs Cahill debate, Cahill I feel is for the future, but have nothing against Sheedy, I do think he made some bad mistakes on the sideline for the Galway game that cost us a bit e.g Niall at wing back/could have used him in the forwards, not taking off players that were not at the pace of the game but these things happen, those are the breaks.

To me Cahill is evidently the right choice though to bring the two Under 20/21 teams of the last few years on to senior level. Similar to Sheedy with the 06/07 winning teams, he knows those players inside out and how to get the best out of them.

Despite the defeat vs Galway, I thought it was encouraging that our best players over the 3 games weren't actually the lads from 2010, but more the likes of Ronan, Breen, McCormack and Forde. We obviously won't have the likes of Bonner/Paudie/Brendan etc/ forever so it is encouraging to see new leaders stand up. Couple that with some great prospects from the underage teams and we have some real potential in the years going forward. I do think we are in for some lean years to get there though, it happens.

On a final note, seeing Waterford tonight tearing through tackles and running at the Kk team, it does seem to me that we lack a bit on S&C and pace. Pace is probably due to the age profile of the team (understandable!) but we do seem to look fairly gassed early compared to other teams.

formerlyET

Ompala wrote: »

To me Cahill is evidently the right choice though to bring the two Under 20/21 teams of the last few years on to senior level. Similar to Sheedy with the 06/07 winning teams, he knows those players inside out and how to get the best out of them.

On a final note, seeing Waterford tonight tearing through tackles and running at the Kk team, it does seem to me that we lack a bit on S&C and pace. Pace is probably due to the age profile of the team (understandable!) but we do seem to look fairly gassed early compared to other teams.

There is no debate on whether Cahill is the right man. I'm just arguing against complete dismissal of Willie Maher which is way over the top.

I don't think we lack anything in the S&C department or pace. It's an easy thing people point to. You don't win all-irelands without those things.

Stacksofwacks

Let me just say as a Waterford man Liam Cahill is one serious manager, the way he has gotten the team playing..running at defences, going for goals, scores coming from all over the pitch..has Austin Gleeson back in form has unearthed some good young players..and the passion and workrate I've never seen from a Waterford team. I've no doubt he'll manage Tipp one day but Jesus he can stay down here for as long as he likes..

formerlyET

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Let me just say as a Waterford man Liam Cahill is one serious manager, the way he has gotten the team playing..running at defences, going for goals, scores coming from all over the pitch..has Austin Gleeson back in form has unearthed some good young players..and the passion and workrate I've never seen from a Waterford team. I've no doubt he'll manage Tipp one day but Jesus he can stay down here for as long as he likes..

Bevans has a fair bit to do with it too

formerlyET

formerlyET wrote: »

Is this a dig at Willie Maher being one eyed?

NO IT IS NOT! :mad:

Cop yourself on trying to twist the argument.

Stacksofwacks

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Let me just say as a Waterford man Liam Cahill is one serious manager, the way he has gotten the team playing..running at defences, going for goals, scores coming from all over the pitch..has Austin Gleeson back in form has unearthed some good young players..and the passion and workrate I've never seen from a Waterford team. I've no doubt he'll manage Tipp one day but Jesus he can stay down here for as long as he likes..

Are you sure now you wouldn't prefer a man who kept Faythe harriers in the senior ranks instead???

Ompala

formerlyET wrote: »

There is no debate on whether Cahill is the right man. I'm just arguing against complete dismissal of Willie Maher which is way over the top.

I don't think we lack anything in the S&C department or pace. It's an easy thing people point to. You don't win all-irelands without those things.

Not very familiar with Maher tbh so can't really comment, think he was in charge of the minors back in 2012 right? Maybe the Under 21s in 2015? I was more looking at the 2 Liams.

I dunno, just looking at the way Waterford were flying around the pitch and the current Limerick team makes me wonder. Never really noticed it up until now.

One thing I did really admire tonight was Waterfords use of puck outs. It is an area I feel we struggle as our forwards are very static and don't try run on to the ball, which ends up with Hogan landing it with snow down on top of a group of players. That, and I would be curious to see the stats on this compared to other counties, the amount of frees we concede. When we are on top we nearly seem to keep other teams in it with silly frees e.g Ronan pushing Concannon (?) in the back when he was out near the sideline.

formerlyET

Ompala wrote: »

Not very familiar with Maher tbh so can't really comment, think he was in charge of the minors back in 2012 right? Maybe the Under 21s in 2015? I was more looking at the 2 Liams.

I dunno, just looking at the way Waterford were flying around the pitch and the current Limerick team makes me wonder. Never really noticed it up until now.

One thing I did really admire tonight was Waterfords use of puck outs. It is an area I feel we struggle as our forwards are very static and don't try run on to the ball, which ends up with Hogan landing it with snow down on top of a group of players. That, and I would be curious to see the stats on this compared to other counties, the amount of frees we concede. When we are on top we nearly seem to keep other teams in it with silly frees e.g Ronan pushing Concannon (?) in the back when he was out near the sideline.

It's a tactic - the running of the ball. Waterford are using it to its extreme. And it's paying off. My only worry is how it affects a player long term - how long of a career will you have playing that way. And how does the form hold. The hits come harder and more often at senior level - and it's a longer year. It will remain to be seen - I'd like to see how the form plays out with Waterford over a three/four year period. Then we'll see.

For me, if you can make the ball talk, you make the ball talk. You can't outrun a ball. BUt all this will be seen over time.

Yes, I think Barry Hogan has a good puck out game. But is very young, as is Brian Hogan, people forget, he can still develop this part of his game. But it needs improvement big time, you're right.

I don't think we were too static last year. You can look static when you've been figured out. When you're the champion, you're the most studied and we were figured out in lots of ways. But this management team can reflect and i'd expect them to come up with answers.