Pep on the way to England

ERG89

Andersonisgod wrote: »

To an extent yes but this looks like a City side that has stagnated (though I still expect them to win the league) they've not kicked on and developed in perhaps the same way that PSG are on the verge of doing.

They'll likely make the Quarters of the CL & win the league. Not like they are a HUGE undertaking who don't have unlimited funds. If he struggles to win a CL at a Man City like he is at Bayern with a FAR better squad I dont see the huge progress he'd make .

Andersonisgod

ERG89 wrote: »

They'll likely make the Quarters of the CL & win the league. Not like they are a HUGE undertaking who don't have unlimited funds. If he struggles to win a CL at a Man City like he is at Bayern with a FAR better squad I dont see the huge progress he'd make .

I disagree. They'll make the quarters but, as happened when they played Juventus twice in the group stage, they will be turned over once they come up against a genuinely top team. They'll win the league, even though they've been decidedly average for the majority of the season so far, they're saving grace is their title contenders have been even worse. It's a huge undertaking in that Guardiola will try to take City from a club that are probably behind about half a dozen teams in Europe (considerably behind a few of those) and take them to the top of Europe, somewhere they have never been before as a club. He will look to make City the dominant club in England, a team that wins the league season after season.So from a success standpoint the task is huge.

However his appointment wouldn't just be about that. This would be a statement on City's part, a declaration of intent. As Barcelona once brought Rinus Michels to the club, and Johan Cruyff both as a player and a club, an identity was born. Total football at Barcelona was established, the link from Ajax to Barcelona formed, and here we are in 2015 and (having been rejuvenated by Pep Guardiola) Michel's and Cruyff's legacy remains today, the remain a reference point which all at Barcelona must follow. Some managerial appointments are more significant than others and Pep Guardiola being appointed at Man City would be the Michels/Cruyff to Barcelona of modern day. Man City will want Pep's philosophy and work to be a lasting legacy, a reference point that will last decades, a clearly defined identity that is instantly recognizable. That's Pep's task, along with helping Man City to become the biggest club in Manchester, it could not be a more mammoth task.

ERG89

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I disagree. They'll make the quarters but, as happened when they played Juventus twice in the group stage, they will be turned over once they come up against a genuinely top team. They'll win the league, even though they've been decidedly average for the majority of the season so far, they're saving grace is their title contenders have been even worse. It's a huge undertaking in that Guardiola will try to take City from a club that are probably behind about half a dozen teams in Europe (considerably behind a few of those) and take them to the top of Europe, somewhere they have never been before as a club. He will look to make City the dominant club in England, a team that wins the league season after season.So from a success standpoint the task is huge.

However his appointment wouldn't just be about that. This would be a statement on City's part, a declaration of intent. As Barcelona once brought Rinus Michels to the club, and Johan Cruyff both as a player and a club, an identity was born. Total football at Barcelona was established, the link from Ajax to Barcelona formed, and here we are in 2015 and (having been rejuvenated by Pep Guardiola) Michel's and Cruyff's legacy remains today, the remain a reference point which all at Barcelona must follow. Some managerial appointments are more significant than others and Pep Guardiola being appointed at Man City would be the Michels/Cruyff to Barcelona of modern day. Man City will want Pep's philosophy and work to be a lasting legacy, a reference point that will last decades, a clearly defined identity that is instantly recognizable. That's Pep's task, along with helping Man City to become the biggest club in Manchester, it could not be a more mammoth task.

He'll probably spend about 3 years there like he did at Bayern no legacy lasts that little tbh he will probably be forgotten if he doesn't improve in Europe as they were European Champions when he took over.
City are a team that wins the league every other year now anyway. As far as making them a power house in Europe he failed the clasico exam twice with a superior to any PL side Bayern Munich, even though they had made 3 finals before he arrived so it wasn't like they freeze in the latter stages.
He beat poor sides to make those semi finals too. Porto, Shaktar & Man United weren't any good.
As far as not being a more mammoth task let him do that with Aston Villa instead so :pac:

Andersonisgod

ERG89 wrote: »

He'll probably spend about 3 years there like he did at Bayern no legacy lasts that little tbh he will probably be forgotten if he doesn't improve in Europe as they were European Champions when he took over.
City are a team that wins the league every other year now anyway. As far as making them a power house in Europe he failed the clasico exam twice with a superior to any PL side Bayern Munich, even though they had made 3 finals before he arrived so it wasn't like they freeze in the latter stages.
He beat poor sides to make those semi finals too. Porto, Shaktar & Man United weren't any good.
As far as not being a more mammoth task let him do that with Aston Villa instead so :pac:

Ask Rummenigge or ask Sammer about Pep's legacy at Bayern Munich. Again, if you're looking at it purely from a results point of view then it's probably been a B+ so far, in terms of impact and longevity of work it's been substantial. He's done fantastic stuff at Bayern Munich and it'd be pretty tough to find anyone within the club or any respected source that would disagree with that assessment.
His record in the Clasico is outstanding so I'm not sure what you're getting at there.
They win the league every other year, but both times it's been ridiculously close, neither time have they dominated the league to win it. Their title defences have left a lot to be desired too. In Europe it's been a massive failure.
You know he did actually make it to the semi finals twice, I mean, that isn't bad. Aside from Real Madrid, is there any team that's ever made 5 Champions League finals in a row? No, and there's a good reason for that. The criteria you are judging him on is literally impossible to live up to.
I'm not going to lie, I hate that argument, I really do. It's a dumb argument. Maybe before football became so commercialized you could take a team like Nottingham Forest and go and win the European Cup but in the age of the superclubs and billionaire owners that's just not possible, what modern manager has done that? What manager could do that in the modern age? Like any top manager, Pep will go to a top club, he will work with a squad of players that are at a high level because he's earned that and because the City decision makers think he can make their team better (and, in the case of Pep for other reasons too). Again, it's judging Pep against a criteria that is impossible to live up to, a criteria that no other coach could live up to or would be judged against.

SlickRic

Shocking that you hate an argument that doesn't shed Pep in a perfect light.

Bayern is possibly the best run football club in the world. They are miles ahead of the rest in terms of personnel and draw (the fact the likes of Gotze and Lewandowski go so easily from the 2nd best team, Dortmund, says an awful lot). The only challenge they have is the Champions League. While he'll have done a good job even of he doesn't win the CL - you can't take league titles and cups away from him, he still has to keep that ticking over - he will have failed in his big challenge. And a semi-final, FYI, is the minimum that Bayern squad should get to. Same as Barcelona. Same as Real Madrid. That is simply a fact of how far ahead they all are as clubs right now.

You talk about Pep being judged by criteria that nobody else would be - that's complete bollocks. What other manager gets to use an argument of 'legacy' or 'identity' when talking about their successes at a club? For ANYONE else in his position, it'd be leagues and Champions Leagues.

deaddonkey15

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Ask Rummenigge or ask Sammer about Pep's legacy at Bayern Munich. Again, if you're looking at it purely from a results point of view then it's probably been a B+ so far, in terms of impact and longevity of work it's been substantial. He's done fantastic stuff at Bayern Munich and it'd be pretty tough to find anyone within the club or any respected source that would disagree with that assessment.
His record in the Clasico is outstanding so I'm not sure what you're getting at there.
They win the league every other year, but both times it's been ridiculously close, neither time have they dominated the league to win it. Their title defences have left a lot to be desired too. In Europe it's been a massive failure.
You know he did actually make it to the semi finals twice, I mean, that isn't bad. Aside from Real Madrid, is there any team that's ever made 5 Champions League finals in a row? No, and there's a good reason for that. The criteria you are judging him on is literally impossible to live up to.
I'm not going to lie, I hate that argument, I really do. It's a dumb argument. Maybe before football became so commercialized you could take a team like Nottingham Forest and go and win the European Cup but in the age of the superclubs and billionaire owners that's just not possible, what modern manager has done that? What manager could do that in the modern age? Like any top manager, Pep will go to a top club, he will work with a squad of players that are at a high level because he's earned that and because the City decision makers think he can make their team better (and, in the case of Pep for other reasons too). Again, it's judging Pep against a criteria that is impossible to live up to, a criteria that no other coach could live up to or would be judged against.

How can you judge the longevity of his work at Bayern when he hasn't even left yet? Seems like he's getting out at a good time, a lot of that Bayern squad are ageing and will need replacing soon. Is he not up to the challenge of overhauling this squad whilst maintaining their status amongst Europe's elite?

SlickRic

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Is he not up to the challenge of overhauling this squad whilst maintaining their status amongst Europe's elite?

No. He doesn't have to. He's Pep. He can only do 3 or 4 years before 'burnout'.

He's merely Mourinho, but easier on the ears, with football that's easier on the eye.

bucketybuck

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Is he not up to the challenge of overhauling this squad whilst maintaining their status amongst Europe's elite?

Pep doesn't do challenges. But if you already have the best team and loads of money then Pep's your man!

Backstreet Moyes

He literately has had two challenges as Bayern manger and been hammered on both occasions.

They won the champions league the season before he joined on the way beating Barca 7-0.

The following two seasons they were hammered 5-0 against Madrid and 5-3 against Barca.

I struggle to see how he can be classed as a success so far at Bayern. He has won the league,which it would be hard not too when you are miles better than everyone else.

Yet when faced with the challenge of playing sides of similar quality in Europe he has been hammered.

rob316

Nuts102 wrote: »

He literately has had two challenges as Bayern manger and been hammered on both occasions.

They won the champions league the season before he joined on the way beating Barca 7-0.

The following two seasons they were hammered 5-0 against Madrid and 5-3 against Barca.

I struggle to see how he can be classed as a success so far at Bayern. He has won the league,which it would be hard not too when you are miles better than everyone else.

Yet when faced with the challenge of playing sides of similar quality in Europe he has been hammered.

That is what it comes down to at the end of the day. Winning the Bundesliga is not success, with the team and resources at your disposal it would be a massive failure not to.

AIG can speak about Pep's philosophy and impact on style all day long but this a results business and he hasn't delivered on the European stage as of yet.

Honestly I would see imminent appointment of Ancelotti as an upgrade on Pep. Ancelotti is unquestionably the best coach in the world, then Mourinho.

I will say one thing though Pep has got the years on his side, if he goes on to pick up European cups with multiple clubs, I will happily be proved wrong.

GavRedKing

rob316 wrote: »

That is what it comes down to at the end of the day. Winning the Bundesliga is not success, with the team and resources at your disposal it would be a massive failure not to.

AIG can speak about Pep's philosophy and impact on style all day long but this a results business and he hasn't delivered on the European stage as of yet.

Honestly I would see imminent appointment of Ancelotti as an upgrade on Pep. Ancelotti is unquestionably the best coach in the world, then Mourinho.

I will say one thing though Pep has got the years on his side, if he goes on to pick up European cups with multiple clubs, I will happily be proved wrong.

The other side of Ancelottis 3 UCL wins is hes only got what, 3 league titles? One was with PSG when in fairness it was a bit more competitive than Ligue 1 is now and the other was back with AC Milan in 2003 was it? Its Ancelottis European success that is brilliant, domestically, not so much.

Although, he'll notch up German title after title anyway for the foreseeable future.

FWIW, theres very little seperating Pep, Jose and Ancelotti IMO, theyre all very succesful in their won right and they all bring a different style of play and brand of football. Employ one of them and you're likely to be a champion rather quickly.

Backstreet Moyes

Out of the three mentioned it has to be Mourinho.

Could the the others do what he done at Porto and Inter i really doubt it.

GavRedKing

Nuts102 wrote: »

Out of the three mentioned it has to be Mourinho.

Could the the others do what he done at Porto and Inter i really doubt it.

I'd prefer Jose but given whats just happened......

I reckon City, Utd and Chelsea will want Pep.

Utd will also want Jose.

Cant see Jose going to City and Chelsea is a clear no go.

So one of the above teams is going to be left with an inferior manager and I feel it will be Chelsea and that before we even mention Arsenal who will have to replace Wenger in the next few years but it wont be this summer, not with how well theyre doing anyway.

Henry did a piece on Pep last night

Pretty much saying LVG / Pep are near the same so anyone hoping for Pep to be Utd's savior might have to think twice.

Also he mentioned that when Henry strayed from the match plan regardless of him scoring a goal he was substituted.

Pro. F

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Henry did a piece on Pep last night

Pretty much saying LVG / Pep are near the same so anyone hoping for Pep to be Utd's savior might have to think twice.

Also he mentioned that when Henry strayed from the match plan regardless of him scoring a goal he was substituted.

That's not what I'm hearing in this clip.

Henry says that the Pep and Van Gaal are quite similar except for the final third, where Pep gave his players freedom and Van Gaal doesn't.

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

That's not what I'm hearing in this clip.

Henry says that the Pep and Van Gaal are quite similar except for the final third, where Pep gave his players freedom and Van Gaal doesn't.

11.30 onwards of that video please

K-9

Graham Hunter made similar points, LVG would leave him a good base which Pep could work with relatively easily, and he'll improve it.

GavRedKing

Question for Utd fans, who would ya prefer at the end of the season if it was between Pep or Jose?

Pro. F

M!Ck^ wrote: »

11.30 onwards of that video please

At no point in that video does Henry say that LVG and Pep are near the same so anyone hoping for Pep to be Utd's savior might have to think twice.

He does say that they were very similar in the first two thirds of the pitch, but he also says contrasts how Pep gives his players freedom in the final third and Van Gaal isn't doing that.

If you ignore everything he says before 11.30 into that video then you could possibly kid somebody into believing that he is only saying that they're both the same, but why would you do that?

Pro. F

GavRedKing wrote: »

Question for Utd fans, who would ya prefer at the end of the season if it was between Pep or Jose?

Pep without a doubt.

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

At no point in that video does Henry say that LVG and Pep are near the same so anyone hoping for Pep to be Utd's savior might have to think twice.

He does say that they were very similar in the first two thirds of the pitch, but he also says contrasts how Pep gives his players freedom in the final third and Van Gaal isn't doing that.

If you ignore everything he says before 11.30 into that video then you could possibly kid somebody into believing that he is only saying that they're both the same, but why would you do that?

Can't anything be put in context? Best way for you to debate it at this stage is that I apparently quoted Henry now word for word.

Didn't sound to me like Henry had any freedom. That's why he drifted to a different position. He scored a goal and pep said **** it you didn't follow my instructions.. You're off

GavRedKing

GavRedKing wrote: »

Question for Utd fans, who would ya prefer at the end of the season if it was between Pep or Jose?

Neither but if I was forced to pick it would be Pep

I wanted Ancelloti but he's gone.

So really don't know after that. Simeone maybe

GavRedKing

Pro. F wrote: »

Pep without a doubt.

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Neither but if I was forced to pick it would be Pep

I wanted Ancelloti but he's gone.

So really don't know after that. Simeone maybe

I'd prefer Simeone or Allegri for Chelsea but their lack of English would be an issue and the fact Simeone loves Atleti means he wont be moving anytime soon you'd imagine.

Pro. F

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Can't anything be put in context? Best way for you to debate it at this stage is that I apparently quoted Henry now word for word.

What context? What are you talking about?

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Didn't sound to me like Henry had any freedom. That's why he drifted to a different position.

Henry on being asked if there are similarities between Pep and LVG (6.20 in video):
"I think yes, you have a similarity. The first two third of the field is pretty much the same. Structured, there is a way, Pep used to give us a plan and we had to execute it. But in the last third of the field that was freedom for us. He was allowing us to do what we wanted to do."

He then goes on to analyse the videos of his play at Barcelona and repeatedly, explicitly says he was given freedom in the last third of the pitch. Which contrasts with the clips they showed of United at the start of that video where Henry and Carragher talked about how the United attacking players showed no freedom of movement in the final third.

M!Ck^ wrote: »

He scored a goal and pep said **** it you didn't follow my instructions.. You're off

Yes, that was regarding play in the first two thirds of the pitch. Henry even had lines drawn on the pitch at that time in the video to explain what he was talking about.

eagle eye

GavRedKing wrote: »

I'd prefer Simeone or Allegri for Chelsea but their lack of English would be an issue and the fact Simeone loves Atleti means he wont be moving anytime soon you'd imagine.

I was thinking about this and if Pep goes to City then Pellegrini would be an excellent choice for Chelsea imo.

GavRedKing

eagle eye wrote: »

I was thinking about this and if Pep goes to City then Pellegrini would be an excellent choice for Chelsea imo.

I really dont like Pellegrini, I dont think hes good enough, IMO.

A manager like Pep, Jose, Ancelotti has that City side walking the league year on year and doing much better in Europe with the budget afforded too them.

Granted this year theyve finally made an impact on Europe but it looked to me that Pellegrini is minding the role until a top tire manager becomes available.

Not that it matters what I think but I'd be disappointed with Pellegrini anyway.

Hank Scorpio

Pellegrini just like Mancini have underachieved with that squad of players imho. They should be walking the league every year and getting balls deep in the CL. A better manager will turn them into a different beast altogether

Boskowski

rob316 wrote: »

That is what it comes down to at the end of the day. Winning the Bundesliga is not success, with the team and resources at your disposal it would be a massive failure not to...

Ah its not THAT bad.
Over the course of the Bundesliga Bayern is statistically the dominant team having won exactly 50% of the league titles. 25 out of 50 that is. And I'd say in the last 20 years its probably going more towards 60%.
That is a really dominant impact, but it also means its far from given to win the league. It could be more competitive, but its not like the Scottish league or so. I remember many years where come March or April 2, 3 or 4 teams were still battling it out.

K-9

Pro. F wrote: »

At no point in that video does Henry say that LVG and Pep are near the same so anyone hoping for Pep to be Utd's savior might have to think twice.

He does say that they were very similar in the first two thirds of the pitch, but he also says contrasts how Pep gives his players freedom in the final third and Van Gaal isn't doing that.

If you ignore everything he says before 11.30 into that video then you could possibly kid somebody into believing that he is only saying that they're both the same, but why would you do that?

Hunter made the exact same point, Pep lets them take risks in the final third, whereas ye know what LVG is like.

LiamoSail

GavRedKing wrote: »

I really dont like Pellegrini, I dont think hes good enough, IMO.

A manager like Pep, Jose, Ancelotti has that City side walking the league year on year and doing much better in Europe with the budget afforded too them.

Granted this year theyve finally made an impact on Europe but it looked to me that Pellegrini is minding the role until a top tire manager becomes available.

Not that it matters what I think but I'd be disappointed with Pellegrini anyway.

The same Jose, who just left a squad that was assembled at a similar cost, to flirtations with the bottom three?

I don't doubt that Mourinho would win the league at City, but I'd be sceptical regarding his ability to do it year on year

LiamoSail

K-9 wrote: »

Hunter made the exact same point, Pep lets them take risks in the final third, whereas ye know what LVG is like.

Is that an observation on LVG throughout the years, or just LVG at United?

GavRedKing

LiamoSail wrote: »

The same Jose, who just left a squad that was assembled at a similar cost, to flirtations with the bottom three?

I don't doubt that Mourinho would win the league at City, but I'd be sceptical regarding his ability to do it year on year

City spent massively in the summer to address the short comings of their title defence from 2013/14.

Ive pointed it out in the summer in the Chelsea thread that any team looking to defend this title and its only been done by Jose and Fergie in the modern era, has to spendánd its the hardest thing any team can do is to win back to back titles.

Chelsea didnt spend enough, nor did we address our own issues in CM our at the back, it shouldnt have seen us end up in this situation but thats a combination of things.

K-9

LiamoSail wrote: »

Is that an observation on LVG throughout the years, or just LVG at United?

Trying to remember, was a recent podcast, think BBC5LIVE European football one.

IIRC it was more general, as in the difference in style between both at Barca, who Hunter follows a lot and has good contacts with. The comments he had from Bayern is that Pep is an exceptional coach, and there's nobody better out there.

Basically LVG provides a very good base for Pep to improve, especially attacking wise.

Skylinehead

LiamoSail wrote: »

Is that an observation on LVG throughout the years, or just LVG at United?

Dennis Bergkamp said that van Gaal didn't let players express themselves very much, and this was at Ajax over 20 years ago, so I would say that's just him.

bucketybuck

LiamoSail wrote: »

The same Jose, who just left a squad that was assembled at a similar cost, to flirtations with the bottom three?

I don't doubt that Mourinho would win the league at City, but I'd be sceptical regarding his ability to do it year on year

In 14 years of management Mourinho has won his league eight times!

8 from 14, sounds like year on year to me, even if you don't count the three 2nd place finishes.

The same Jose left that Chelsea side as league champions, how quickly small things like that are forgotten.

Corholio

A club like City is hard to judge by managers when they tend to have to play players bought for them by somebody else from above. I think a seasoned manager like Pellegrini has his own ways but they are bound to be blunted by players he may have had no hand in buying. Of course there's the 'Oh but he should be doing better with the players available' but I think people underestimate how much a managers personal thinking in managing a team comes into it and not just part of a management 'team'.

symbolic

GavRedKing wrote: »

Ive pointed it out in the summer in the Chelsea thread that any team looking to defend this title and its only been done by Jose and Fergie in the modern era, has to spendánd its the hardest thing any team can do is to win back to back titles.

I can't imagine United spent much more than Chelsea for those back to backs? Was mainly just great work out of a great manager

GavRedKing

symbolic wrote: »

I can't imagine United spent much more than Chelsea for those back to backs? Was mainly just great work out of a great manager

True, but Utd back then were spending more than any other club because they had it to spend.

Now, of course, Chelseas first title was on the back of Romans many, many, many millions but the fact remains, its seriously dificult, near impossible for a club to defend a title.

Paisley done it, then Fergie done, then Jose done it. Anyone in between, Wenger, Daglish, Pellegrini, Mancini, Ancelotti havent managed to do it, and both City bosses and Ancelotti had vast resources. If you dont keep talent coming in the squad can become stagnant and others around cathc up and over take.

Joses 3 titles in 5 full years is pretty epic, a 2nd and a 3rd place finish isnt too bad either and then theres also 2 sackings to throw into the mix.

symbolic

GavRedKing wrote: »

True, but Utd back then were spending more than any other club because they had it to spend.

Now, of course, Chelseas first title was on the back of Romans many, many, many millions but the fact remains, its seriously dificult, near impossible for a club to defend a title.

I dunno gav. It's not even that he didn't defend the title. Fair enough if it takes millions more to defend it. But surely the drop was a bit more than the result of not buying more players to add to the Champions.

adox

GavRedKing wrote: »

Question for Utd fans, who would ya prefer at the end of the season if it was between Pep or Jose?

Jaysus I'd take either.

LiamoSail

bucketybuck wrote: »

In 14 years of management Mourinho has won his league eight times!

8 from 14, sounds like year on year to me, even if you don't count the three 2nd place finishes.

The same Jose left that Chelsea side as league champions, how quickly small things like that are forgotten.

I know how successful he is. My point referred to his ability to sustain success at a single club for a prolonged period. I have no doubt but that Mourinho could win 8 of the next 14 titles, it's his ability to sustain his high level of success at one single club that I'm questioning

LiamoSail

GavRedKing wrote: »

City spent massively in the summer to address the short comings of their title defence from 2013/14.

Ive pointed it out in the summer in the Chelsea thread that any team looking to defend this title and its only been done by Jose and Fergie in the modern era, has to spendánd its the hardest thing any team can do is to win back to back titles.

Chelsea didnt spend enough, nor did we address our own issues in CM our at the back, it shouldnt have seen us end up in this situation but thats a combination of things.

Yea granted, City is a different job and a higher level of investment would obviously have influenced Chelsea's season, but I still question whether Mourinho's methods and controversial style can be sustained for a prolonged period

StringerBell

bucketybuck wrote: »

In 14 years of management Mourinho has won his league eight times!

8 from 14, sounds like year on year to me, even if you don't count the three 2nd place finishes.

The same Jose left that Chelsea side as league champions, how quickly small things like that are forgotten.

In the eight seasons after taking the Porto job, Mourinho won six league titles and two Champions Leagues. Since going to Madrid in 2010 he has won just two league titles.

So since 2010 he will have won 2 league titles from 6 seasons 10/11, 11/12, 12/13, 13/14, 14/15, 15/16.

Sounds less like year on year when its put like that doesn't it

bucketybuck

StringerBell wrote: »

So since 2010 he will have won 2 league titles from 6 seasons 10/11, 11/12, 12/13, 13/14, 14/15, 15/16.

Sounds less like year on year when its put like that doesn't it

I'm sure you think have made a point here, good for you.

So only winning 2 league titles in 6 years negates the fact that he consistently wins titles throughout his career? Only winning 2 from 6 means he doesn't win titles year after year? He has to win them every year for eternity for the phrase to be relevant?

Will any other manager be held to this standard? Does the transition that comes from changing clubs 3 times in that period have no bearing? (We certainly know all about transition periods at United don't we...) Is 2 from 6 not good enough by itself? (I suspect a lot of managers would kill for that record).

You know what, don't even answer, I think I get it now.

eagle eye

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Pellegrini just like Mancini have underachieved with that squad of players imho. They should be walking the league every year and getting balls deep in the CL. A better manager will turn them into a different beast altogether

Two league titles in three seasons at the club is hardly underachieving.

What are you expecting? Chelsea won last year under Mourinho after bringing in Costa and Fabregas to add to an already stacked squad. It's not like City are the only team with money and a top class squad in the Premier league.

StringerBell

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'm sure you think have made a point here, good for you.

So only winning 2 league titles in 6 years negates the fact that he consistently wins titles throughout his career? Only winning 2 from 6 means he doesn't win titles year after year? He has to win them every year for eternity for the phrase to be relevant?

Will any other manager be held to this standard? Does the transition that comes from changing clubs 3 times in that period have no bearing? (We certainly know all about transition periods at United don't we...) Is 2 from 6 not good enough by itself? (I suspect a lot of managers would kill for that record).

You know what, don't even answer, I think I get it now.

I'm pretty sure you don't, but ok!

Dirty Dingus McGee

eagle eye wrote: »

Two league titles in three seasons at the club is hardly underachieving.

What are you expecting? Chelsea won last year under Mourinho after bringing in Costa and Fabregas to add to an already stacked squad. It's not like City are the only team with money and a top class squad in the Premier league.

Pellegrini has only won 1 so far and that was handed to them by Liverpool.

City with the start they got and Chelsea being so poor this season should have the league pretty much sown up already.Arsenal only look good because the other teams have regressed.

City being so reliant on Kompany and being so sh1t at the back without him surely has to be a massive black mark against the manager.

Bild saying Arsenal might be in the mix too.

That would be a better fit imo rather than the circus at Chelsea and the Manchester clubs

Shanotheslayer

Hopefully this works. Quite interesting as Raf usually knows his stuff

https://gyazo.com/84d08240f69cc82b3c9c6466f2e35dd5

AdamD

That's completely disingenuous to the players, Alaba in particular, who was the best LB in the world before Pep went near the club.