Pep on the way to England

gosplan

My theory about the last 8 of the CL and latter stages of international tournaments is that it's mostly about luck.

Hang around from the quarter finals long enough and it'll go your way. Kind of like what happened to Chelsea. Obviously at times you get an exceptional team like last year.

You can't judge a manager on it though.

You defo can't say that Pep helped the German team win but somehow absolve him of responsibility for Bayern's CL exits.

For me I like the way his teams play. I admire the way Pep's Bayern is not a carbon copy of Pep's Barca. Like he's evolving and developing his approach rather than just replicating a winning formula over and over.

It is a bit soon to be saying best of his generation but it's also very unfair to say he had a great team at Barca and Munich so he hasn't done much.

One thing is for sure though. He's a force for good in the sport. There was a whole where the CL latter stages were Jose v Rafa bore-fests, or the Utd v Chelsea awful final. Pep plays a stylish but not entirely pragmatic brand of football and if he comes up against another team who can jeep the ball and move it around, you get a great match. Same with a team with good counter attacking.

It's not something he's unique in but the more top managers that don't set their teams up to actively avoid a game of football breaking out, the better.

dfx-

SlickRic wrote: »

I didn't once mention Ancelotti in the post Lassyk quoted.

I E also never said he had it easy at Barca, so get lost with your generalising.

You're just deflecting from a point you don't like. It's not that I don't understand, it's just that you can't counter the Champions League argument unless he wins it with this Bayern team.

Bayern is a draw like nobody else on Germany. He was able to take the league's best striker off their biggest rivals without a problem. You can talk about philosophy all you like, but his advantages at Bayern are enormous in terms of being successful domestically.

CL semis are minimum every year. And they've been beaten easily by top teams who could beat this much vaunted 'gegenpresse' at that stage. That's a failure, and will continue to be until he adapts to it with this team.

They've always cherry picked the best players from German clubs, but they bite off more than they can chew after a few years and Wolfsburg and Bremen and Dortmund win it.

They have not been this stable in 40 years domestically. His advantages domestically are no different to what any Munich manager has had in that period. Why were they not all this good domestically? Why were Munich desperate to keep him?

astonaidan

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Mate I asked you a few basic questions earlier in this thread, nothing too dramatic, nothing too deep or difficult and the answers you came back with were so basic and poorly conceived that it's obvious to anyone that you are way out of your depth on this thread. In fact the only times you've been comfortable commenting is with comments like the one here, comments where you are addressing Andersonisgod and not Pep Guardiola. Perhaps you are an expert in Andersonisgod (I can assure you that you aren't but perhaps you think you are) but when it comes to Guardiola your knowledge is basic and your opinions carry no weight.

LOL, you still got it, everytime you make me laugh :D

Dirty Dingus McGee

dfx- wrote: »

They've always cherry picked the best players from German clubs, but they bite off more than they can chew after a few years and Wolfsburg and Bremen and Dortmund win it.

They have not been this stable in 40 years domestically. His advantages domestically are no different to what any Munich manager has had in that period. Why were they not all this good domestically? Why were Munich desperate to keep him?

They won 5 in 6 years in the late 80's early 90's and 3 in a row a few times other than that.

All European leagues have become less competitive in the last 15 years or so so he has a significant advantage over the Bayern teams of the past.

astonaidan

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

They won 5 in 6 years in the late 80's early 90's and 3 in a row a few times other than that.

All European leagues have become less competitive in the last 15 years or so so he has a significant advantage over the Bayern teams of the past.

The only challenge he had recently, has been Dortmund, where that was quickly stopped by signing two of their top 3 players.

For me the top 2 managers are Jose & Pep, taking into account they both only really do 3 years at clubs. Which would I take all depends on the players, honestly right now at Chelsea, Id think Pep would suit them more. I actually think Jose is the perfect manager for Madrid right now, which is kinda funny.

What Id actually love would be Pep at Roma and Jose at Milan

LiamoSail

It's difficult to determine what the bar of success is at Bayern. Domestic success is taken for granted, however to dismiss a manager as unsuccessful on the basis of him not winning the CL is to overlook how difficult it is to win the CL.

How many failed campaigns have Ferguson, Mourinho or Ancelotti had? This is Guadiola's third attempt at it with Bayern. To fail to win it in three attempts doesn't make him failure at the club, but similarly,I don't see how he can be described as an unmitigated success at the club without winning it.

People speak about the work he's done behind the scenes, and how he has improved the club. I don't doubt it, but it wasn't Aston Villa to start with. They were the European Champions. Ultimately, if Guadiola is going to take on jobs at clubs where the margins between success and failure are so slim, he too is going to be judged on those margins. Without winning the CL, I don't think he can't be regarded as a successful Bayern manager, only an acceptable one

ERG89

astonaidan wrote: »

What Id actually love would be Pep at Roma and Jose at Milan

Neither them would be a huge success tbh. Roma are so mentally fragile Pep would take a sabbatical after 6 months (if he requested a player but doesn't use them like Gotze he'd have to answer questions too).
Jose would wonder die at a club with a reputation for selling their best players and just not replacing them. As a Milan fan I don't think any manager would succeed there now.

SlickRic

Pep has officially said he did not extend his Bayern contract because he wants to manage in the Premier League.

Let the bidding war commence.

GavRedKing

SlickRic wrote: »

Pep has officially said he did not extend his Bayern contract because he wants to manage in the Premier League.

Let the bidding war commence.

Pep - " I havent choosen my next club yet"

££££££££££££

Said it in the Chelsea thread I'd be shocked if he didnt end up at City and the way things are, I'd suspect Chelsea are 4th on his list of suitors but were the only club, at least on the surface, actively looking for a new manager.

ronjo

GavRedKing wrote: »

Pep - " I havent choosen my next club yet"

££££££££££££

Said it in the Chelsea thread I'd be shocked if he didnt end up at City and the way things are, I'd suspect Chelsea are 4th on his list of suitors but were the only club, at least on the surface, actively looking for a new manager.

It must be the first time ever that the 4 "big"? clubs in England all supposedly want the same manager.

GavRedKing

ronjo wrote: »

It must be the first time ever that the 4 "big"? clubs in England all supposedly want the same manager.

Unless Wenger walks I cant see Arsenal looking at Pep but its certainly an outside possibility and ye'd be a more stable prospect than Chelsea.

It'll be interesting to see where Pellegrini turns up if Pep does take the City job and I'd like to avoid him anyway but for Chelsea, after sacking so many talented managers, beggers cant be choosers so it might come to down to hiring Pellegrini.

This kinda thing undermines the managers of man city, arsenal, Chelsea and utd to name a few. All current managers must be pissed off. "Gods gift to football management" apparently.....
He can now publicly say such a thing like he has everyone by the balls. Bit of a farce if you ask me.

GavRedKing

M!Ck^ wrote: »

This kinda thing undermines the managers of man city, arsenal, Chelsea and utd to name a few. All current managers must be pissed off. "Gods gift to football management" apparently.....
He can now publicly say such a thing like he has everyone by the balls. Bit of a farce if you ask me.

Hiddink is only temporary anyway for us but I cant see Pep turning up at Stamford Bridge anytime soon, unless its in the away dug out.

It does look like its lacking class saying hes going to manage in the EPL, every club would want him but I think hes Citys man to lose from this point forward.

LiamoSail

M!Ck^ wrote: »

This kinda thing undermines the managers of man city, arsenal, Chelsea and utd to name a few. All current managers must be pissed off. "Gods gift to football management" apparently.....
He can now publicly say such a thing like he has everyone by the balls. Bit of a farce if you ask me.

It does undermine them as you say, but just as each of those managers would happily replace a decent performer in their sides with a world class player if one were to become available, the clubs are happy to replace a manager performing well (or not as the case may be) with a world class option.

With the exception of Arsenal, I reckon any top club would sack their manager if Guadiola wanted the job, irrespective of how the manager was performing, within reason.

I'm not an Arsenal fan, but would be disgusted if they were to do that to Wenger. After what he's done for the club, he deserves to go on his own terms

KungPao

My money's on Chelsea. Bumper contract and a busy summer of incomings and outgoings.

L'prof

LiamoSail wrote: »

I'm not an Arsenal, but would be disgusted if they were to do that to Wenger. After what he's done for the club, he deserves to go on his own terms

That'd be my thoughts on it too. Timing just isn't right unfortunately. Plenty would disagree though. Not everyone is happy to see him still at the club.

bucketybuck

M!Ck^ wrote: »

This kinda thing undermines the managers of man city, arsenal, Chelsea and utd to name a few. All current managers must be pissed off. "Gods gift to football management" apparently.....
He can now publicly say such a thing like he has everyone by the balls. Bit of a farce if you ask me.

Yes, I find it very disrespectful towards Pelligrini particularly, he must know damn well the effect that his words will have regarding speculation of whose job he is going to take.

He is full of crap anyway. "Doesn't want to end his career without managing in the Premier league". He is only 44 ffs, he has a long long time ahead of him to fulfill that particular dream. Why not just be honest and say that he doesn't do long term anywhere.

StringerBell

Wenger to shock retire at the end of the season and Pep to take over.

I can see Pep being retired by 55 at this rate, not going to be much left for him since he only likes short stints.

Canadel

StringerBell wrote: »

I can see Pep being retired by 55 at this rate, not going to be much left for him since he only likes short stints.

International?

If he goes to Utd he should do everything he can to get Welbeck back.

Rayne Wooney

Canadel wrote: »

International?

If he goes to Utd he should do everything he can to get Welbeck back.

No

HalloweenJack

LiamoSail wrote: »

I'm not an Arsenal fan, but would be disgusted if they were to do that to Wenger. After what he's done for the club, he deserves to go on his own terms

Could only see this happening if Wenger gave Arsenal strict instructions to go out and get him. I highly doubt they'd do that to him otherwise.

Canadel

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

No

Yes

ronjo

HalloweenJack wrote: »

Could only see this happening if Wenger gave Arsenal strict instructions to go out and get him. I highly doubt they'd do that to him otherwise.

The rumour was the Wenger called him to ask him personally to take over from him.
Obviously I have no idea if it's true or not.

GavRedKing

If Wenger wins this league this year and going on what others are producing, he should, he might walk away ona high and leave Pep with a very good squad that he could push to the next level.

Peps new club will probably be the story of the summer anyway, bar a huge transfer like Neymar, Bale, Messi, Ronaldo etc leaving their clubs.

GavRedKing

GavRedKing wrote: »

If Wenger wins this league this year and going on what others are producing, he should, he might walk away ona high and leave Pep with a very good squad that he could push to the next level.

Peps new club will probably be the story bore of the summer anyway, bar a huge transfer like Neymar, Bale, Messi, Ronaldo etc leaving their clubs.

fyp

L'prof

GavRedKing wrote: »

If Wenger wins this league this year and going on what others are producing, he should, he might walk away ona high and leave Pep with a very good squad that he could push to the next level.

Peps new club will probably be the story of the summer anyway, bar a huge transfer like Neymar, Bale, Messi, Ronaldo etc leaving their clubs.

With 1 year left on his contract, I'd be shocked to see Wenger walk.

bucketybuck

If Pep really is all that then he should go for the Real Madrid job. What better way to prove it wasn't just Messi/Iniesta/Xavi that made his reputation for him than to go out and topple Barcelona.

He'll never do it though, he doesn't really want a challenge like that, he just wants a team with all the advantages so he can build his legacy on trophies. Hence the inevitable City or Chelsea appointment.

L'prof

bucketybuck wrote: »

If Pep really is all that then he should go for the Real Madrid job. What better way to prove it wasn't just Messi/Iniesta/Xavi that made his reputation for him than to go out and topple Barcelona.

He'll never do it though, he doesn't really want a challenge like that, he just wants a team with all the advantages so he can build his legacy on trophies. Hence the inevitable City or Chelsea appointment.

A challenge like that??? How would he even be motivated to usurp Barcelona? He left on good terms, he'd only be going back to Spain to take over at Barca again I'd imagine.

bucketybuck

L'prof wrote: »

A challenge like that??? How would he even be motivated to usurp Barcelona? He left on good terms, he'd only be going back to Spain to take over at Barca again I'd imagine.

Would it not be a challenge?

GavRedKing

Taking over Real would be the ultimate challenge but I cant imagine it ever happening being honest.

Shanotheslayer

bucketybuck wrote: »

Would it not be a challenge?

There's other Challenges as well! Don't think Madrid will ever cross his mind.

bucketybuck

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

There's other Challenges as well! Don't think Madrid will ever cross his mind.

There are other challenges, but is there one that involves beating what is regarded as the best team in the world while at the same time removing that big question mark against his legacy?

GavRedKing

bucketybuck wrote: »

There are other challenges, but is there one that involves beating what is regarded as the best team in the world while at the same time removing that big question mark against his legacy?

Not when its against a club he clearly loves.

Its like Fergie turning up at Anfield to take Pool above Utd in terms of league titles won.

Well maybe not as bad as that but not far off in terms of how far fetched the idea seems to me at least.

greendom

GavRedKing wrote: »

Not when its against a club he clearly loves.

Its like Fergie turning up at Anfield to take Pool above Utd in terms of league titles won.

Well maybe not as bad as that but not far off in terms of how far fetched the idea seems to me at least.

In some ways it would be worse with Guardiola being a born and bred Catalan as well

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2571649-pep-guardiola-votes-on-catalan-independence-amid-barcelona-la-liga-exit-talk

If there'd been a Catalan state, I would have played for Catalan National team because I'm from Santpedor

bucketybuck

GavRedKing wrote: »

Not when its against a club he clearly loves.

Its like Fergie turning up at Anfield to take Pool above Utd in terms of league titles won.

Well maybe not as bad as that but not far off in terms of how far fetched the idea seems to me at least.

Nowhere near as bad in my opinion, simply because my opinion is that Pep cares far more about himself than Barcelona.

GavRedKing

bucketybuck wrote: »

Nowhere near as bad in my opinion, simply because my opinion is that Pep cares far more about himself than Barcelona.

I know what youre saying but by that logic wouldnt it be better and easier for him to take over Barca again in the near future and continue his personal success? He'd more than likely win a few more leagues and UCLs. Reals success in the last decade has been stopped by Pep, Rijkaard and Enrique.

I dont think Pep going to Real would stop that anytime soon either, especially considering his Bayern couldnt stop Barca last year and Real the year before beat Bayern.

He could go to PSG and win a league in his 3rd country for the foreseeable future while pushing them towards the business end of the UCL if he really is all about himself.

I'm in the camp of not being a huge fan of Pep, would I like him at Chelsea, of course I would, hes a highly succesful manager but te fact hes willing to take on the EPL, a league thats a lot closer than Germany, Spain or France suggets to me at least thats hes up for a serious challenge instead of hoovering up gimme trophies in Germany.

Granted Bayern, Atletico, Real, Barca, PSG and Juve would all on there day, probably knock out an English side from the UCL, those teams operate in less competitive leagues, they may have better quality than the EPL in those teams mentioned but the EPL is a lot closer and more compeitive, IMO.

So I'll be interested to see how he gets on wherever he ends up.

Shanotheslayer

bucketybuck wrote: »

Nowhere near as bad in my opinion, simply because my opinion is that Pep cares far more about himself than Barcelona.

Based on?

ronjo

bucketybuck wrote: »

Nowhere near as bad in my opinion, simply because my opinion is that Pep cares far more about himself than Barcelona.

You could certainly say the same about Fergie considering the state of the midfield he left behind.

Francie Barrett

If Pep says he's going to manage in England, then that is what he's going to do. You can be sure of that.

bucketybuck

ronjo wrote: »

You could certainly say the same about Fergie considering the state of the midfield he left behind.

You will find few people on this board more critical than I regarding United's midfield neglect from 2008 on.

Rayne Wooney

He's like the Mayweather of football managers

He'll pick City with the best side, the best resources, the eventual title winners this season imo

If he picks Arsenal or United I'll be shocked and give him credit where it's due, there's a lot of work to be done at both clubs and I wonder how he'll handle real pressure

Shanotheslayer

Pep could get Wolves to the premiership and win the league and people still wouldn't rate him :pac:

Giggsy11

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

He's like the Mayweather of football managers

He'll pick City with the best side, the best resources, the eventual title winners this season imo

If he picks Arsenal or United I'll be shocked and give him credit where it's due, there's a lot of work to be done at both clubs and I wonder how he'll handle real pressure

When you are at the top, you get to choose whatever you want to. It's like saying I don't give credit to Messi unless he plays for weaker clubs.

He has achieved a lot in his career and it would be madness to reject better club offers just to "prove himself".

Rayne Wooney

Giggsy11 wrote: »

When you are at the top, you get to choose whatever you want to. It's like saying I don't give credit to Messi unless he plays for weaker clubs.

He has achieved a lot in his career and it would be madness to reject better club offers just to "prove himself".

I think Mourinho is a better manager and if Pep wants to be the best he'll have to do more than go to City and win a couple of league titles.

bucketybuck

Giggsy11 wrote: »

He has achieved a lot in his career and it would be madness to reject better club offers just to "prove himself".

In fairness, Madrid, toxic as they are, would still be classed as perhaps the 2nd/3rd top club team in the world. He gets the chance to topple Barca without the bother of being constrained by money or prestige, not the worst draw in the world really.

All hypothetical of course, its just a teeny bit strange that with Pep being linked with every club going he still doesn't get linked with one of the biggest and richest clubs in the world.

GavRedKing

bucketybuck wrote: »

In fairness, Madrid, toxic as they are, would still be classed as perhaps the 2nd/3rd top club team in the world. He gets the chance to topple Barca without the bother of being constrained by money or prestige, not the worst draw in the world really.

All hypothetical of course, its just a teeny bit strange that with Pep being linked with every club going he still doesn't get linked with one of the biggest and richest clubs in the world.

Its simple, hes Barca through and through, he would never consider Real, nor would Real consider him.

Giggsy11

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I think Mourinho is a better manager and if Pep wants to be the best he'll have to do more than go to City and win a couple of league titles.

Not really. Jose's record since he won CL with Inter is not that great.

bucketybuck wrote: »

In fairness, Madrid, toxic as they are, would still be classed as perhaps the 2nd/3rd top club team in the world. He gets the chance to topple Barca without the bother of being constrained by money or prestige, not the worst draw in the world really.

All hypothetical of course, its just a teeny bit strange that with Pep being linked with every club going he still doesn't get linked with one of the biggest and richest clubs in the world.

Strange would be pep getting linked with Madrid job with all the political history and the movement that's going on.

bucketybuck

GavRedKing wrote: »

Its simple, hes Barca through and through, he would never consider Real, nor would Real consider him.

You know the rags though, since when has a little thing like that ever stopped them.

Shanotheslayer

bucketybuck wrote: »

You know the rags though, since when has a little thing like that ever stopped them.

Because everybody would laugh, there's no source, no nothing. I'm sure you could get 100/1 odds if you fancy a euro on it :pac:

GavRedKing

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Because everybody would laugh, there's no source, no nothing. I'm sure you could get 100/1 odds if you fancy a euro on it :pac:

Peps next job, Real Madrid, is 66/1 on PP at the moment.

:pac: