Dog diagnosed as alergic to meat.

getaroom

As title says dog allergic to protein, hes 10 and has only ever eaten meat mixed with dry food. Have tried protein free food but he wont touch it.

Any one any suggestions?

SillyMangoX

Is it all proteins or a specific protein source eg chicken or beef? Protein is a necessary part of diet so it could be meat protein or veg protein in the food, usually the issue is an allergy to the source of it rather than protein as a whole. Have blood tests been done?

getaroom

SillyMangoX wrote: »

Is it all proteins or a specific protein source eg chicken or beef? Protein is a necessary part of diet so it could be meat protein or veg protein in the food, usually the issue is an allergy to the source of it rather than protein as a whole. Have blood tests been done?

All protein. Coat falls off in clumps and big sores start to appear, bloods have been done. I bought burns sensitive +. 60 euro a bag. He hates it.

miss tickle

getaroom wrote: »

All protein. Coat falls off in clumps and big sores start to appear, bloods have been done. I bought burns sensitive +. 60 euro a bag. He hates it.

maybe look up an enzyme which can break down proteins in food, giving it with meals might widen the choice of food you can give him.

Stheno

Was the dog tested for the likes of EPI?

SillyMangoX

Problem with lower proton foods is a lot of the flavour comes from the protein so the lower it is the less appealing it is to him. It might be worth having a look at others around the same level as the one you've tried him on and see if he likes any of them. Just had a look at the analytical contents of the burns, it's 18.5% protein. That's the same as what's in James wellbeloved senior lamb and rice, the senior might suit him better at his age too!

tk123

I'm intrigued to know what testing was done - like did you spend 100's on allergy testing and it came back as being allergic to every protein source?

getaroom

tk123 wrote: »

I'm intrigued to know what testing was done - like did you spend 100's on allergy testing and it came back as being allergic to every protein source?

Took him to vet (with his litter brother) two mongrels. Brother is fine quiet and reserved, the other one is like a 4 year old boy. out investigating every nook and cranny, robbing neighbours bins, came home with a chicken once.

He started to smell and then we noticed bald patches. Vet diagnosed above gave him tablets and everything cleared up. But when he gets hold of cat food or scraps it flares up again.

i give him the new food and pour the water of a tin of tuna over it. sometimes he eats it while others he takes each individual piece out of the bowl licks it and spits it out on to the floor.

quite a character

Stheno

getaroom wrote: »

Took him to vet (with his litter brother) two mongrels. Brother is fine quiet and reserved, the other one is like a 4 year old boy. out investigating every nook and cranny, robbing neighbours bins, came home with a chicken once.

He started to smell and then we noticed bald patches. Vet diagnosed above gave him tablets and everything cleared up. But when he gets hold of cat food or scraps it flares up again.

i give him the new food and pour the water of a tin of tuna over it. sometimes he eats it while others he takes each individual piece out of the bowl licks it and spits it out on to the floor.

quite a character

Did the vet do any tests?

GardeningGirl

Hiya that's a shame sorry for his trouble. Burns is pretty boring. Good but boring lol. I recommend home cooking. Wholemeal pasta with broccoli, carrot, garlic etc. He'll love it. Make a big batch twice a week and portion it up into takeaway pots for convenience good luck with it

flutered

we have had similar troubles, until we tried the bags of dog food musili, some brands of meat free dog food are cooked in chicken fat, this is why folks are sometimes wondering about the effects of various foods on their dogs

tk123

Stheno wrote: »

Did the vet do any tests?

+1

This stinks of protein being blamed for another allergy - my friend was told the same so pumps the dog full of steroids and antibiotics all the time yet feeds GAIN.. Granted it could be a specific protein but I'd be looking for a second opinion myself before I banished all protein sources!?

DBB

Surely op, the vet has definitively diagnosed this using exclusion diets, possibly some enzyme tests? Saying that a dog who has flared up from eating a chicken, some cat food (probably beef or chicken based), and scraps (what meat made up the scraps?) is allergic to all proteins seems a huge leap to make, particularly in light of the difficulty it poses in feeding him and making sure he's properly nourished.
He's 10 years old. Presumably he was fine with whatever food he was on before the flare-ups you describe?
Chicken and beef are the most common meats to cause skin problems in terms of their proteins. It is more normal for novel proteins to be accepted by a reactive dog... Turkey, rabbit, venison, and best of all, fish. Can you say with absolute certainty that your dog will flare up to all of these?

Cherry Blossom

My terrier reacts to chicken (hyperactivity and itching) and something in hills gave her hotspots. I feed both dogs Lukullus, the duck & lamb one and no problems at all. I didn't have any tests done at all, I just did an exclusion diet and worked from there. Food allergies are well known in the breed. I would consider it highly unlikely that a dog would be allergic to protien full-stop. I''ve never heard of this before.

tk123

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

My terrier reacts to chicken (hyperactivity and itching) and something in hills gave her hotspots. I feed both dogs Lukullus, the duck & lamb one and no problems at all. I didn't have any tests done at all, I just did an exclusion diet and worked from there. Food allergies are well known in the breed. I would consider it highly unlikely that a dog would be allergic to protien full-stop. I''ve never heard of this before.

Yeah chicken can be hit and miss with Lucy and Bailey's not supposed to have it (as well as venison and pork) because it's "pro-inflammatory" so I avoid it. I haven't had any problems with any other meat/fish though and vary it lot - they had turkey, pheasant, rabbit and duck wings for their breakfast.

TBH OP it sounds like the dog just has a poor diet - scraps can be ok in fairness depending on what they are - my two would often get left over meat, veg and their favourite - the skin off the salmon... but cat food!?

I'd agree with trying an exclusion diet... BTW my boy did not do well on burns (or it's cousin Luath) - red itchy skin and bad tummy every other week.

aonb

a fish based (protein) good quality kibble, a duck based good quality kibble would DEFINITELY be worth a try OP. I feel sorry for you - trying to sort out an allergy based problem is the absolute pits.... it takes so long for his system to clear one food before you know a new one is ok.

I ended up home cooking for my old boy. Once/week cooked a big pan of brown rice, with chicken (or fish) and some veg boiled up then into the fridge for a weeks supply - get some of the frozen white fish fillets (very very economical) in Tesco's since you cant use chicken. Add a few tempting things like sweet potato for variety. Hopefully he likes fish!

good luck - let us know how you get on

getaroom

aonb wrote: »

a fish based (protein) good quality kibble, a duck based good quality kibble would DEFINITELY be worth a try OP. I feel sorry for you - trying to sort out an allergy based problem is the absolute pits.... it takes so long for his system to clear one food before you know a new one is ok.

I ended up home cooking for my old boy. Once/week cooked a big pan of brown rice, with chicken (or fish) and some veg boiled up then into the fridge for a weeks supply - get some of the frozen white fish fillets (very very economical) in Tesco's since you cant use chicken. Add a few tempting things like sweet potato for variety. Hopefully he likes fish!

good luck - let us know how you get on

Thanks for that.

Its funny he will eat rice and potatoes as if they were steaks.
The difficulty we have is that the other dog likes/needs meat, usually the fat off a pork chop or a nibble of cat food.
He tore the bins apart today looking for meat rappers. I took a photo of the damage - I can only laugh.

I have been very sick and Elvis (the one with the meat issues,) will only eat if im in the room. Hes glued to my side. My best friend and nurse. A relationship with no complications. Love him to bits.

getaroom

DBB wrote: »

Surely op, the vet has definitively diagnosed this using exclusion diets, possibly some enzyme tests? Saying that a dog who has flared up from eating a chicken, some cat food (probably beef or chicken based), and scraps (what meat made up the scraps?) is allergic to all proteins seems a huge leap to make, particularly in light of the difficulty it poses in feeding him and making sure he's properly nourished.
He's 10 years old. Presumably he was fine with whatever food he was on before the flare-ups you describe?
Chicken and beef are the most common meats to cause skin problems in terms of their proteins. It is more normal for novel proteins to be accepted by a reactive dog... Turkey, rabbit, venison, and best of all, fish. Can you say with absolute certainty that your dog will flare up to all of these?

I thought he had picked up a mite in the grass. But i took the vet at his word. He actually has two coats which when it flares up i get him shaved.

Hes very funny and good humored. Id be lost without him. So whatever is needed will be done.

Cherry Blossom

The fat off a pork chop is not meat, it's garbage. Cat food, if it's cheap stuff is probably not meat either. Why are you feeding your dogs this stuff? Are you taking this seriously at all?

getaroom

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

The fat off a pork chop is not meat, it's garbage. Cat food, if it's cheap stuff is probably not meat either. Why are you feeding your dogs this stuff? Are you taking this seriously at all?

Why would you say this?

The dog steals the cat food and rips the bins apart for left over dinner. I have to roll the left over food in newspaper and throw it in the back of the stove.

As previously stated he gets byrnes sensitive food as prescribed by the vet at 60 euro a bag. Money I can ill afford.
Yesterday morning I walked into the utility room where dogs and cats sleep. The dog had jumped on to the kitchen worktop knocked over a bog for recycling which was full of plastic wrapping including the empty bays from lidls / aldi chicken pieces, the two dogs subsequently took all the meat wrappers into there beds. I had to take a few photos.

DBB

Op, I think what AJ is getting at is that you've been given good advice here following a non-diagnosis by your vet, yet instead of indicating in any way that you're taking any of it in board, you're telling us little anecdotes about your dog instead... Nothing wrong with that, but it'd be nice for people who have taken time out of their day to help you, to get some idea of whether you have any thoughts about actually investigating any of what's been advised.
It's hugely unlikely that your dog is allergic to all proteins... He would not be alive, let alone made it to 10 years of age if he was. Thus, it is hugely likely that the expensive food your vet has sold you is simply not necessary, and your dog could be enjoying tasty meals instead of enduring boring old Burns. Some vets are inclined to take a stab in the dark when it comes to skin issues, but to simply cast off your dog's itchy skin as an allergy to all proteins just seems either unlikely, or lazy.

Cherry Blossom

Yes, sorry, you asked about your dog's allergy and in all your posts since you've talked about different things. It's a little confusing. We don't have bins in the house at all, we just put it all in the wheelie bin outside. I would move the cat's food to somewhere the dogs can't get to it.

tk123

The issue here is training/management. Letting the dog eat crap that's going to make him sick whether you hand it to them or they rob behind your back is what's causing the problem. Special food or elimination diets are a waste of time and money if the dog still has access to what's making him sick?

If the dog is ripping bin bags just put them in a plastic bin? Jumping up on the counters - don't leave anything up there until you've trained them not to jump up there? We have pedal bins in the kitchen and the dogs would never dream of going near them - they were trained from day one not to touch the bins or go near anything on the counters.
If one of my dogs ate something that I'd left out and it made them sick I'd feel guilty - I wouldn't be holding my hands up like it wasn't my fault or there's nothing I can do to stop it again.

getaroom

tk123 wrote: »

The issue here is training/management. Letting the dog eat crap that's going to make him sick whether you hand it to them or they rob behind your back is what's causing the problem. Special food or elimination diets are a waste of time and money if the dog still has access to what's making him sick?

If the dog is ripping bin bags just put them in a plastic bin? Jumping up on the counters - don't leave anything up there until you've trained them not to jump up there? We have pedal bins in the kitchen and the dogs would never dream of going near them - they were trained from day one not to touch the bins or go near anything on the counters.
If one of my dogs ate something that I'd left out and it made them sick I'd feel guilty - I wouldn't be holding my hands up like it wasn't my fault or there's nothing I can do to stop it again.

Apologies.

The vet did blood tests, two years ago. We know him years, All I know is that he said hes sensitive / alergic to protein. As long as we watch him / feed him O Briens sensitive there is no issue. He loves peas, rice and potatoes which are usually given as leftovers. If he gets his mouth on a pack of whiskers wet or dry or tuna or (as he prone to do) rob someones meat off the table within two days he is stinking and scratching his coat off. The only remedy then is back to the vet get an injection and his coat shaved.

DBB

I stand to be corrected, but the blood tests can't tell you that a dog is allergic to a, b or c.
If bloods showed high protein levels, that's not an allergy, it's an enzymatic/digestive issue. I have a feeling there's been a mix-up in communication here.
Can you clarify... The meat he has stolen from the table is... What?
When he has stolen meat from the table, was there gravy or any other additional things on it?
Can you say with certainty that fish, or turkey, or any of the other novel proteins I mentioned, cause a problem? Please note that I don't mean fish-flavoured tinned or pouched cat food... I mean the pure meat, on its own, with nothing else?

tk123

DBB wrote: »

I stand to be corrected, but the blood tests can't tell you that a dog is allergic to a, b or c.

Somebody from a FB group I'm on posted her dogs results and they were 4 pages long with different foods, mites, grasses etc etc they cost hundreds - if you forked out for them/had an insurance claim you wouldn't forget it so I doubt that's what was done?

DBB

tk123 wrote: »

Somebody from a FB group I'm on posted her dogs results and they were 4 pages long with different foods, mites, grasses etc etc they cost hundreds - if you forked out for them/had an insurance claim you wouldn't forget it so I doubt that's what was done?

Yes, I had meant to say standard blood tests... Allergy testing is pricey and specialised, and I know even at that, there is doubt about them.
I can't bring myself to believe that a vet would come to the conclusion, based on the evidence, that a dog is allergic to all proteins. Like I said... How did the dog get to 10 years of age, presumably happily eating all before him, and still alive?!
I think there's been a misunderstanding somewhere along the line. Certainly, in the absence of an exclusion diet, I don't know how the op could possibly know that the dog reacts to all proteins, whether of animal or vegetative origin.

getaroom

The vet is a "farming vet" although he operates a small animal practice. His bed side manner would not exactly be described as diplomatic and Im a bit like that my self. Its kind of "this is what it is - end of". I thought he picked up a grass mite because when it first started he pulled all the hair out of his feet. I fed him fish for a while but same result.
Generally he will only eat when Im around so its easy to monitor what he is eating ( unless he gets to a bin)

Cherry Blossom

To find out if fish was affecting him you would need to feed him only fish for a minimum of 6 weeks. That's how an exclusion diet works. All dog food contains meat, I think Burns sensitive is duck.

Gael23

I wouldn't be satisfied with that diagnosis if it was my Dog. I would want blood tests done to give definitive answers and not just an experienced opinion like you have been given.
Meat is the centre of a Dogs diet so I really can't see how this can be possible.