Making A Murderer [Netflix - Documentary Series]

Potential Underachiever

Just about to re-watch the scene when Barb, Tadych and Avery are on a 3 way call and it gets extremely heated, I haven't noticed much chat on here about it, anyone got any opinions? I'll check back in later

Mam of 4

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Just about to re-watch the scene when Barb, Tadych and Avery are on a 3 way call and it gets extremely heated, I haven't noticed much chat on here about it, anyone got any opinions? I'll check back in later

I thought Scotts outburst was quite telling , not how I'd respond/react tbh . I'd be in flat out denial mode .

retro:electro

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Just about to re-watch the scene when Barb, Tadych and Avery are on a 3 way call and it gets extremely heated, I haven't noticed much chat on here about it, anyone got any opinions? I'll check back in later

My first impression was Jesus maybe Brendan is better off away from these people. But listening again I thought Steven was really composed and rational. Barb lying about having internet connection was curious, I get the impression she’d lie for them all. Scott showed his true self. He seems to have a lot of anger under the surface. It was interesting that Barb’s response was “he was with me all day!” not “he would never do such a thing” when Steven queried whether or not Scott could be involved.

Commanchie

retro:electro wrote: »

My first impression was Jesus maybe Brendan is better off away from these people. But listening again I thought Steven was really composed and rational. Barb lying about having internet connection was curious, I get the impression she’d lie for them all. Scott showed his true self. He seems to have a lot of anger under the surface. It was interesting that Barb’s response was “he was with me all day!” not “he would never do such a thing” when Steven queried whether or not Scott could be involved.

What the documentary doesnt show that was read into transcripts for the denny was he wssnt with her 1 till 5.30

Potential Underachiever

Having trouble locating it, anyone know off hand what episode it is?

Commanchie

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Having trouble locating it, anyone know off hand what episode it is?

Part 2 EP 1 or 2

Potential Underachiever

Commanchie wrote: »

Part 2 EP 1 or 2

It's actually episode 10 season 2.


Interesting call alright, definitely shows Tadych can't stand Avery, also admissions made that Halbach was seen leaving the property by Bobby Dassey contrary to what he said in court.

mad m

Ok its gone

to the high court, they are saying that’s the last chance saloon. Where else can the lawyers go with it?

Commanchie

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

It's actually episode 10 season 2.


Interesting call alright, definitely shows Tadych can't stand Avery, also admissions made that Halbach was seen leaving the property by Bobby Dassey contrary to what he said in court.

Is it not in 1 too. Where barb wtf is kathleen doing?

Commanchie

mad m wrote: »

Ok its gone

to the high court, they are saying that’s the last chance saloon. Where else can the lawyers go with it?

Supreme court.

bazermc

RIP Teresa Halbach. Anniversary of her death today. Important not to forget there was a life lost here.

Potential Underachiever

Commanchie wrote: »

Is it not in 1 too. Where barb wtf is kathleen doing?

Not sure but I doubt it, Zellner wasn't on the case until after season 1 aired if I'm not mistaken.

robwen

Full phone call from youtube 17 minutes long, interesting it's been up there for 10 months now

Commanchie

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Not sure but I doubt it, Zellner wasn't on the case until after season 1 aired if I'm not mistaken.

Im saying part 2 episode 1

Uncharted

bazermc wrote: »

RIP Teresa Halbach. Anniversary of her death today. Important not to forget there was a life lost here.

13 years without full and absolute closure on what happened to Teresa. Her poor family must be going through hell. RIP.

Commanchie

Uncharted wrote: »

13 years without full and absolute closure on what happened to Teresa. Her poor family must be going through hell. RIP.

I think they have just bought into KK and Lenks theory

Mountainsandh

robwen wrote: »

Full phone call from youtube 17 minutes long, interesting it's been up there for 10 months now

Woooaaaahhhh.
Hold on a minute, there's some load of stuff going on there !
I'd love to read if anyone else can make sense of all that.

For sure, on this, there is the confirmation that Teresa was seen leaving the place. Feckin' hell.

There is also a definite hint on Steven's part that there is evidence that Scott possibly left the hospital earlier than he said. Hint at cctv over the parking lot...

Commanchie

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Woooaaaahhhh.
Hold on a minute, there's some load of stuff going on there !
I'd love to read if anyone else can make sense of all that.

For sure, on this, there is the confirmation that Teresa was seen leaving the place. Feckin' hell.

Did you never see the transcrioys of bobby tell people he seen her drive off and SA walk to back of his trailer

Tipsy McSwagger

Uncharted wrote: »

13 years without full and absolute closure on what happened to Teresa. Her poor family must be going through hell. RIP.

Jesus you just couldn’t resist could you? Can you not just thank the post without spouting this shyte?

Uncharted

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Jesus you just couldn’t resist could you? Can you not just thank the post without spouting this shyte?

Are you high on skittles and toffee apples tonight or what's your problem?

Tipsy McSwagger

Uncharted wrote: »

Are you high on skittles and toffee apples tonight or what's your problem??

Your post was actually the most disgusting post I have read in this thread.

Mam of 4

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Woooaaaahhhh.
Hold on a minute, there's some load of stuff going on there !
I'd love to read if anyone else can make sense of all that.

For sure, on this, there is the confirmation that Teresa was seen leaving the place. Feckin' hell.

There is also a definite hint on Steven's part that there is evidence that Scott possibly left the hospital earlier than he said. Hint at cctv over the parking lot...

And Steven said the hospital would have a record if he was there with his mother or not .

Am open to correction on this , but I think he's right in that nurses write in the notes - Mrs Z's son Scott was visiting , for example . I know it used to be done .

There was a lot on that phone call tbh , why would Barb have been thrown in jail if she didn't leave her house?

Why was she insisting she didn't have internet when she did ?

It seems like she knows a LOT more than she's letting on and is willing for Steven to pay the price for her not telling what she knows .

Just my thinking on it though

Mountainsandh

Commanchie wrote: »

Did you never see the transcrioys of bobby tell people he seen her drive off and SA walk to back of his trailer

No I didn't !!!

I just heard about that. I'll have to try and find them now.

Barb is lying all the way, and not only that, but she seems to have emotionally blackmailed Steven all the way.

All these hints at molesting...I'd have to listen again, but from what I figured so far, it sounds like Scott was making up stuff about Steven molesting the boys, but Steven then hints that Barb was having sex with Brendan ? or is it that someone made that up ? Bobby ? Scott ?
What the hell ?

I agree Steven comes out of this phonecall as the most sane, and the most reasoned. And it's definitely way more likely to me that Scott and/or Bobby may actually have planted evidence to frame Steven.
Way more likely.

Damn. That's confusing things even more for me.

Scott really doesn't do himself any favours.

Uncharted

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Your post was actually the most disgusting post I have read in this thread.

Of course it was...... You're right about everything on this thread. We all know that.

:rolleyes:

Tipsy McSwagger

Uncharted wrote: »

Of course it was...... You're right about everything on this thread. We all know that.

:rolleyes:

At least myself and a lot of others choose to remember the real victim today without having to throw in ‘ her poor family must be going through hell’ like you care one bit. The Halbachs fully believe the case is over, the killer was caught and Netflix are milking it for all the money they can make so what are you on about?

Mountainsandh

Mam of 4 wrote: »

And Steven said the hospital would have a record if he was there with his mother or not .

Am open to correction on this , but I think he's right in that nurses write in the notes - Mrs Z's son Scott was visiting , for example . I know it used to be done .

There was a lot on that phone call tbh , why would Barb have been thrown in jail if she didn't leave her house?

Why was she insisting she didn't have internet when she did ?

It seems like she knows a LOT more than she's letting on and is willing for Steven to pay the price for her not telling what she knows .

Just my thinking on it though

I'm kind of thinking now the jail thing could be that she was suspected of having sex with Brendan, or abusing her kids in general, I mean, this was mentioned in the phonecall... and I agree, she is lying, and she is totally on the defensive.
And the emotional blackmail, you won't have a sister anymore, that kind of stuff, that's how she got Steven to keep quiet on some things up to then.

She knows either Bobby or Scott did it.

I think now too, that if Bobby did it and Scott and Barb found out, then Scott would have acted out to help Bobby, he seems to hate Steven so much anyway, he wouldn't give a toss about him.

And then you'd wonder about Brendan...

Mountainsandh

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

At least myself and a lot of others choose to remember the real victim today without having to throw in ‘ her poor family must be going through hell’ like you care one bit. The Halbachs fully believe the case is over, the killer was caught and Netflix are milking it for all the money they can make so what are you on about?

There's no need for virtue signalling, from either side. You're indulging in a bit of that yourself above.

All people here and elsewhere discussing the case and the program know about Teresa, and I'm pretty sure all feel sad that a young lady with a lot of promise was murdered.

Mam of 4

Mountainsandh wrote: »

I'm kind of thinking now the jail thing could be that she was suspected of having sex with Brendan, or abusing her kids in general, I mean, this was mentioned in the phonecall... and I agree, she is lying, and she is totally on the defensive.
And the emotional blackmail, you won't have a sister anymore, that kind of stuff, that's how she got Steven to keep quiet on some things up to then.

She knows either Bobby or Scott did it.

I think now too, that if Bobby did it and Scott and Barb found out, then Scott would have acted out to help Bobby, he seems to hate Steven so much anyway, he wouldn't give a toss about him.

And then you'd wonder about Brendan...

The more you hear/read on this , the more sense (some!) of it makes .
I agree with you , Barb definitely emotionally blackmails Steven , for whatever reason that may be . Yes he is no Saint , not by a long shot , but I don't think he's guilty of TH murder. .

Bobby , what if he had her , either in his car or her jeep , when he met Scott near Scotts house ? And as you say , Scott and maybe Barb covered it up and framed Steven , and poor Brendan just got caught up in the whole thing , I don't think Barb thought he'd be convicted of anything .

Scott is sly , and hates Steven with a passion, so he definitely doesn't want any further investigation into anything , in case he's released .

Commanchie

Mountain when im in the office tomorrow ill link you to the transcripts.

Tipsy McSwagger

Mountainsandh wrote: »

There's no need for virtue signalling, from either side. You're indulging in a bit of that yourself above.

All people here and elsewhere discussing the case and the program know about Teresa, and I'm pretty sure all feel sad that a young lady with a lot of promise was murdered.

Well then let’s just think about this lady on the anniversary of her murder. Because she seems to be ignored for the most part by most people, bar her family of course. Let’s not forget today is a horrible day for them while we can just simply thank a post and forget about Teresa practically straight away. Throwing in her family is going through hell because there hasn’t been full disclosure, when in fact they believe the right men were caught is bang out of order.

Checkmate19

Watched mam2. The one thing I take from it is I can't ever see either of them getting out. If dassey gets out then Steven more than likely gets out. Dassey at the least should get a new trial for the way he was represented by his first lawyer. Basically they where working for the prosecution. But weather guilty or not imo neither are getting out.

Mountainsandh

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Well then let’s just think about this lady on the anniversary of her murder. Because she seems to be ignored for the most part by most people, bar her family of course. Let’s not forget today is a horrible day for them while we can just simply thank a post and forget about Teresa practically straight away. Throwing in her family is going through hell because there hasn’t been full disclosure, when in fact they believe the right men were caught is bang out of order.

How on earth do you figure she's ignored ?

People are not discussing her because well, there is nothing else to say really. She didn't deserve to die at the hands of some sicko, whoever that is, there is no point mentioning that because it's obvious to all.

I discuss the program and the case here without mentioning her, but I have watched her home videos, and read about her, and I like photography myself, so even though I don't go wailing about it online, I really feel sad about a young lady losing her life like that.

I bet everyone's the same, there's just no need to keen to feel the sadness.

I do think myself that it's legitimate to wonder about the family's certainty that the right person was caught and punished. Maybe they are 100% certain, maybe they are not, we're not in their entourage so realistically we can't tell.

Uncharted

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

At least myself and a lot of others choose to remember the real victim today without having to throw in ‘ her poor family must be going through hell’ like you care one bit. The Halbachs fully believe the case is over, the killer was caught and Netflix are milking it for all the money they can make so what are you on about?

Hold on a minute here. Hear me out on this.

You are so blinkered about this that you're only seeing it from your own pov. I can assure you I meant zero backhanded remarks in my post.

I couldn't give 2 fcuks about likes or thanks.
That's a reflection on your own mindset.

That family IS "going through hell" and have not had closure.

Simply because of the Netflix MaM show and countless retrials and books and accusations of wrongful imprisonment.
That was my point.

It was NOT a callous dig or remark.

How can that be closure for the family when everybody,including you and I are still commenting on the case??

13 years later......??? Closure??

Cop yourself on.

jv2000

Mam of 4 wrote: »

The more you hear/read on this , the more sense (some!) of it makes .
I agree with you , Barb definitely emotionally blackmails Steven , for whatever reason that may be . Yes he is no Saint , not by a long shot , but I don't think he's guilty of TH murder. .

Bobby , what if he had her , either in his car or her jeep , when he met Scott near Scotts house ? And as you say , Scott and maybe Barb covered it up and framed Steven , and poor Brendan just got caught up in the whole thing , I don't think Barb thought he'd be convicted of anything .

Scott is sly , and hates Steven with a passion, so he definitely doesn't want any further investigation into anything , in case he's released .

My feelings on all of this is that Barb knows exactly what happened and she is not willing to give up one of or both of Scott and Bobby just to get Brendan out of jail. The way things have gone so far they could all end up in prison without anybody being released. Barb is likely just hoping that Brendan is freed on the back of the existing case i.e. the somewhat coerced confession.

Despite all of this I am still not sure how Ryan fits into all of this. i am re-watching Part 1 and have to say I do think that Ryan deleted the voicemails on TH's phone. Why...? Probably because there were aggressive voicemails from himself on there. Purely a theory on my part though, I still think Bobby should be the main suspect after SA.

runningbuddy

I enjoy MAM (1&2). However, I hate that fact that it is totally unbiased against SA and BD.

SA is a pretty unsavoury character, (yes, I know this doesn't mean he killed TH). He was jailed for abusing an animal. He was 18 at the time and not "just a kid" as was pointed out. He himself tried to blame this on "hanging out with the wrong crowd".

He ran a woman off the road and threatened her with a gun.

A court issued an order barring him from seeing his children. He has admitted abusing his ex wife and small children.

Numerous underage female relatives of Avery have accused him of rape.

A lot of this is just glossed over in the Documentary.

Uncharted

runningbuddy wrote: »

I enjoy MAM (1&2). However, I hate that fact that it is totally unbiased against SA and BD.

SA is a pretty unsavoury character, (yes, I know this doesn't mean he killed TH). He was jailed for abusing an animal. He was 18 at the time and not "just a kid" as was pointed out. He himself tried to blame this on "hanging out with the wrong crowd".

He ran a woman off the road and threatened her with a gun.

A court issued an order barring him from seeing his children. He has admitted abusing his ex wife and small children.

Numerous underage female relatives of Avery have accused him of rape.

A lot of this is just glossed over in the Documentary.

That's an excellent example of why the viewer shouldn't only rely on the information fed to them by Netflix.

There's a world of information online about almost every person involved in the case.

marklazarcovic

Maybe someone should make a show about all that so, because mam is about something else,he did 18 yrs for nothing ,seems to be forgotten too.actually he did 18 yrs because he was set up...more to the point.

runningbuddy

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Maybe someone should make a show about all that so, because mam is about something else,he did 18 yrs for nothing ,seems to be forgotten too.actually he did 18 yrs because he was set up...more to the point.

The fact that SA served 18 years for a crime he did not commit is a travesty. For him and also, the real rapist was free to commit the same crime again.

Just my opinion, MAM is extremely biased in favour of SA.

Tipsy McSwagger

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Maybe someone should make a show about all that so, because mam is about something else,he did 18 yrs for nothing ,seems to be forgotten too.actually he did 18 yrs because he was set up...more to the point.

You mean facts? The show is made by a couple of hacks who don’t care about the truth or facts. I have said it before I would love a talented documentary maker like Errol Morris or Werner Herzog to make a documentary about this case. Just go watch The Thin Blue Line by Morris, absolutely amazing and led to an innocent man being released from prison.

marklazarcovic

runningbuddy wrote: »

The fact that SA served 18 years for a crime he did not commit is a travesty. For him and also, the real rapist was free to commit the same crime again.

Just my opinion, MAM is extremely biased in favour of SA.

But it's a pro Avery show,of course it is? With all the innuendo about his past why isn't there one made about it at this stage, would surely get plenty of attention.id be watching anyway.

There is more evidence of corruption involved towards SA then there is against him comitting the murder imo, as for Brendan,as others have said,a child's life ruined in front of millions,he can't be released,it would bankrupt the county in compensation.

The whole thing is sickening

Maxpfizer

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

You mean facts? The show is made by a couple of hacks who don’t care about the truth or facts. I have said it before I would love a talented documentary maker like Errol Morris or Werner Herzog to make a documentary about this case. Just go watch The Thin Blue Line by Morris, absolutely amazing and led to an innocent man being released from prison.

Is the point of the documentary really to show that Avery is innocent though?

Even taking Avery out of the equation it still looks like every piece of evidence in the case has a massive question mark looming over it.

I think at the very least we could say that the story presented by the prosecution is not the way things went down?

Do you really believe that Brendan Dassey's confession is entirely 100% true?

I get that you think Avery did it and I'm not convinced that he didn't myself.

However, the documentary quite clearly exposes some worrying behavior from law enforcement and the prosecution and the 2nd season exposes some troubling actions from those even higher up in the system.

If behaviors like this are a trend in the the US system then it's likely that there are many innocent folks out there in prisons for crimes they did not commit.

After a point the question of Avery's guilt or innocence becomes secondary to the fact that the whole system is corrupt and those with power are frequently abusing that power.

Making a Murderer exposes some of these worrying trends.

Tipsy McSwagger

Maxpfizer wrote: »

Is the point of the documentary really to show that Avery is innocent though?

Even taking Avery out of the equation it still looks like every piece of evidence in the case has a massive question mark looming over it.

I think at the very least we could say that the story presented by the prosecution is not the way things went down?

Do you really believe that Brendan Dassey's confession is entirely 100% true?

I get that you think Avery did it and I'm not convinced that he didn't myself.

However, the documentary quite clearly exposes some worrying behavior from law enforcement and the prosecution and the 2nd season exposes some troubling actions from those even higher up in the system.

If behaviors like this are a trend in the the US system then it's likely that there are many innocent folks out there in prisons for crimes they did not commit.

After a point the question of Avery's guilt or innocence becomes secondary to the fact that the whole system is corrupt and those with power are frequently abusing that power.

Making a Murderer exposes some of these worrying trends.

Listen you’re playing to the masses. There’s isn’t a person in here who believes the US Justice system is perfect. That’s why documentary or no documentary everyone should research cases themselves. Avery is guilty, Dassey is an idiot who just did what his uncle told him to do.

There’s so much circumstantial evidence against Avery the only thing missing is a video of him committing the murder. Most murder cases are solved by confessions and circumstantial evidence. In regards the circumstantial evidence let me put it this way, if I woke up in the morning and went outside and seen puddles of water everywhere and my car was wet, I would say well it rained, Avery supporters would say the cops come with buckets of water in the middle of the night and poured them everywhere.

Maxpfizer

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Listen you’re playing to the masses. There’s isn’t a person in here who believes the US Justice system is perfect. That’s why documentary or no documentary everyone should research cases themselves. Avery is guilty, Dassey is an idiot who just did what his uncle told him to do.

There’s so much circumstantial evidence against Avery the only thing missing is a video of him committing the murder. Most murder cases are solved by confessions and circumstantial evidence. In regards the circumstantial evidence let me put it this way, if I woke up in the morning and went outside and seen puddles of water everywhere and my car was wet, I would say well it rained, Avery supporters would say the cops come with buckets of water in the middle of the night and poured them everywhere.

Do you think Dassey's confession is the actual story of what happened?

The analogy doesn't work because in this case you'd be looking at a situation where there is circumstantial evidence that it rained BUT ALSO circumstantial evidence that the water was poured everywhere by someone else.

Is it outside the realms of possibility that she showed up on their land and Avery killed her? I think it's possible. I certainly haven't seen anything to convince me that he definitely didn't do it.

On the other side there are so many niggling doubts. The cops had motive. That's undeniable. That's one of the things we'd look for right? Did anyone out there have a motive for potentially planting evidence to make sure Avery went away?

The DNA evidence is suspicious.
How the RAV4 ended up where it did is suspicious.
Brendan D's story of what happened is highly questionable.

Almost every bit of evidence in this case has some kind of BS surrounding it.

From the coroner not being allowed to access the crime scene to other suspects not being considered at all. They were breaking protocol and acting shady from day one here.

So what are we saying here? He did do it but not in the way the prosecution say he did it but that's fine because in the end they got the right guy?

So, I'll ask again, do you think Dassey's confession is the actual story of what happened that day?

The Nal

Is there anything more pathetic than the people who campaigned for Averys released based on the documentary? What a bunch of losers.

Tipsy McSwagger

Maxpfizer wrote: »

Do you think Dassey's confession is the actual story of what happened?

The analogy doesn't work because in this case you'd be looking at a situation where there is circumstantial evidence that it rained BUT ALSO circumstantial evidence that the water was poured everywhere by someone else.

Is it outside the realms of possibility that she showed up on their land and Avery killed her? I think it's possible. I certainly haven't seen anything to convince me that he definitely didn't do it.

On the other side there are so many niggling doubts. The cops had motive. That's undeniable. That's one of the things we'd look for right? Did anyone out there have a motive for potentially planting evidence to make sure Avery went away?

The DNA evidence is suspicious.
How the RAV4 ended up where it did is suspicious.
Brendan D's story of what happened is highly questionable.

Almost every bit of evidence in this case has some kind of BS surrounding it.

From the coroner not being allowed to access the crime scene to other suspects not being considered at all. They were breaking protocol and acting shady from day one here.

So what are we saying here? He did do it but not in the way the prosecution say he did it but that's fine because in the end they got the right guy?

So, I'll ask again, do you think Dassey's confession is the actual story of what happened that day?

I honestly believe the only person who knows what fully happened is Avery. Dassey was probably told by Avery it was an accident and he needed Brendan’s help cleaning up the crime scene. Dassey is so stupid it probably only hit him a few days later what actually happened. He had no idea the hole he was digging himself into while being interviewed. I feel sorry for him tbh but it was right he got sent to prison, not for life though.

You stated in an earlier post if you took Avery out of this case there are still question marks regarding the evidence. I strongly disagree. The whole settlement Avery was looking to cash in on is the key to believing he is innocent. But to think the cops would kill an innocent woman, then plant her burnt remains under Avery’s nose is beyond preposterous.

Tipsy McSwagger

The Nal wrote: »

Is there anything more pathetic than the people who campaigned for Averys released based on the documentary? What a bunch of losers.

Well sending threatening letters to the prosecutor hoping his daughter is raped and murdered is even worse.

8-10

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

But to think the cops would kill an innocent woman, then plant her burnt remains under Avery’s nose is beyond preposterous.

Did anyone suggest that the cops killed her? I don't think either side would agree that that likely happened.

Tipsy McSwagger

8-10 wrote: »

Did anyone suggest that the cops killed her? I don't think either side would agree that that likely happened.

A lot of people think that’s how it happened. Just a quick google brings up this YouTube video, check the comments too.

https://youtu.be/AKZIR04AB9s

Commanchie

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

A lot of people think that’s how it happened. Just a quick google brings up this YouTube video, check the comments too.

https://youtu.be/AKZIR04AB9s

Nobody on this thread or wider supporters believe that for me -

Bobby And Scott
Randandt Quarry worker
Ryan Hillegus

Then SA

8-10

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

A lot of people think that’s how it happened. Just a quick google brings up this YouTube video, check the comments too.

https://youtu.be/AKZIR04AB9s

I think you're way too deep in the conspiracy theories there! I am 100% sure that the police didn't kill her. Evidence doesn't point that way even slightly.

Even Zellner doesn't believe that they planted the blood which was the original defence