Making A Murderer [Netflix - Documentary Series]

Mountainsandh

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

I think he said he called her and she didn’t answer so he hid his number to see if she would then answer.
.

That makes sense. The Averys know well nobody liked them around the area. How does that show malicious intent ?

When I've someone calling up to my place to, I don't know, deliver a parcel, fix something... I like to know what time exactly they'll be coming.


The towel thing Kratz says himself in his book that SA was coming out of the kiddies pool at the back. All of a sudden it's a lot less sleazy.

Plus, sleazy does not a murderer make. Look at Kratz sure.

Tipsy McSwagger

Mountainsandh wrote: »

That makes sense. The Averys know well nobody liked them around the area. How does that show malicious intent ?

When I've someone calling up to my place to, I don't know, deliver a parcel, fix something... I like to know what time exactly they'll be coming.


The towel thing Kratz says himself in his book that SA was coming out of the kiddies pool at the back. All of a sudden it's a lot less sleazy.

Plus, sleazy does not a murderer make. Look at Kratz sure.

The towel incident frightened Teresa so much she told her boss she didn’t want to visit with Avery anymore. It’s not some harmless little incident.

James Forde

Is Tipsy McSwagger Ken Kratz?

runningbuddy

SA blocked his number when calling Teresa Halback. Why on earth would he do this? Yet, when he called her later that afternoon to "get her to return to the site" he did not unblock her number.

Tipsy McSwagger

runningbuddy wrote: »

SA blocked his number when calling Teresa Halback. Why on earth would he do this? Yet, when he called her later that afternoon to "get her to return to the site" he did not unblock her number.

To try and prove she left his property.

runningbuddy

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

To try and prove she left his property.

Exactly.

TH went to the property assuming she was meeting "Barb". Not SA.

Tipsy McSwagger

runningbuddy wrote: »

Exactly.

TH went to the property assuming she was meeting "Barb". Not SA.

SA got Teresa out there on false pretenses, that can’t be argued.

Commanchie

runningbuddy wrote: »

Exactly.

TH went to the property assuming she was meeting "Barb". Not SA.

But why when SA rang her her phone pinged 800 foot from scott & Bobby OFF the Avery site

8-10

Commanchie wrote: »

But why when SA rang her her phone pinged 800 foot from scott & Bobby OFF the Avery site

This is why a new trial wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea. Cell phone tower science isn't as exact as people think so State should be able to argue it with an expert. But again the original defence didn't bring up the theory that she left the property strongly enough and to me it does seem like there's evidence that she did that is worth talking about

Commanchie

8-10 wrote: »

This is why a new trial wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea. Cell phone tower science isn't as exact as people think so State should be able to argue it with an expert. But again the original defence didn't bring up the theory that she left the property strongly enough and to me it does seem like there's evidence that she did that is worth talking about

Sure bobby admitted lying said he seen her off site. Its a cluster**** of a case.

Uncharted

Commanchie wrote: »

Sure bobby admitted lying said he seen her off site. Its a cluster**** of a case.

Imo Bobby Dassey is at the crux of this whole shìtstorm.

He's a really shady character in a family full of shady characters.

jv2000

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

SA got Teresa out there on false pretenses, that can’t be argued.

This aspect of the case really fascinates me. It really does work towards highlighting the theory that TH was being harassed by SA. What I still cannot understand however is this; if she was so creeped out by him then why did she agree to go to the property to meet Barb who was at the time a next door neighbour? Surely she knew the chances of meeting SA were high especially since he had called her several times that day using a hidden number. This for me does call into question just how intimidated she felt by SA.

runningbuddy

jv2000 wrote: »

This aspect of the case really fascinates me. It really does work towards highlighting the theory that TH was being harassed by SA. What I still cannot understand however is this; if she was so creeped out by him then why did she agree to go to the property to meet Barb who was at the time a next door neighbour? Surely she knew the chances of meeting SA were high especially since he had called her several times that day using a hidden number. This for me does call into question just how intimidated she felt by SA.

She probably felt more secure knowing Barb was there. Although, IMO, she is as shady AF :rolleyes:. Speaking as a woman, I would def feel safer knowing another woman there. (even if it was a Dassey female !)

runningbuddy

*An Avery woman*....not a Dassey woman !

jv2000

runningbuddy wrote: »

She probably felt more secure knowing Barb was there. Although, IMO, she is as shady AF :rolleyes:. Speaking as a woman, I would def feel safer knowing another woman there. (even if it was a Dassey female !)

Never thought of that, yes that makes sense. Barb is likely the holy grail in this case, probably knows more than anybody else does.

Tipsy McSwagger

jv2000 wrote: »

This aspect of the case really fascinates me. It really does work towards highlighting the theory that TH was being harassed by SA. What I still cannot understand however is this; if she was so creeped out by him then why did she agree to go to the property to meet Barb who was at the time a next door neighbour? Surely she knew the chances of meeting SA were high especially since he had called her several times that day using a hidden number. This for me does call into question just how intimidated she felt by SA.

I’m fascinated about this part too. She was afraid of Avery but he was crafty enough to leave his sisters details. Teresa might have been a bit apprehensive but because she was meeting a woman she probably felt safe. Most of Avery’s immediate family look like decent people judging by the documentary.

Uncharted

runningbuddy wrote: »

She probably felt more secure knowing Barb was there. Although, IMO, she is as shady AF :rolleyes:. Speaking as a woman, I would def feel safer knowing another woman there. (even if it was a Dassey female !)

A bite from a female snake is still venomous.

runningbuddy

Uncharted wrote: »

A bite from a female snake is still venomous.

LOL, true but it is always comforting having another woman around (speaking as one!).

Off point but is Bobby Dassey intellectually challenged like Brendan??

Commanchie

Really? Did anybody follow this case or is everyone just taking whats in the doc.
TH knew she was seeing SA she said as much to autotrader that Steve had spoke to her that morning regarding the hustle shot from week before.

Uncharted

runningbuddy wrote: »

LOL, true but it is always comforting having another woman around (speaking as one!).

Off point but is Bobby Dassey intellectually challenged like Brendan??

I don't know that for sure,but I don't believe any of the Avery family will be shortlisted for a Pulitzer anytime soon.

I think physical labour in the yard is their primary schooling.

Harsh I know,but there ya go.

runningbuddy

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

I’m fascinated about this part too. She was afraid of Avery but he was crafty enough to leave his sisters details. Teresa might have been a bit apprehensive but because she was meeting a woman she probably felt safe. Most of Avery’s immediate family look like decent people judging by the documentary.

That's what bothers me. There is absolutley no "reasonable" explanation for him blocking his number.

The purpose of him contacting Autotrader was to get his vehicle (Or Barb's vehicle photographed). If TH was reluctant to go, Autotrader would have sent someone else. No probs.

runningbuddy

Uncharted wrote: »

I don't know that for sure,but I don't believe any of the Avery family will be shortlisted for a Pulitzer anytime soon.

I think physical labour in the yard is their primary schooling.

Harsh I know,but there ya go.

Stranger things have happened !!

runningbuddy

Commanchie wrote: »

Really? Did anybody follow this case or is everyone just taking whats in the doc.
TH knew she was seeing SA she said as much to autotrader that Steve had spoke to her that morning regarding the hustle shot from week before.

TH assumed she was meeting Barb. Not SA. TH left a voicemail for Barb confirming she'd be there after 2pm.

Commanchie

runningbuddy wrote: »

TH assumed she was meeting Barb. Not SA. TH left a voicemail for Barb confirming she'd be there after 2pm.

She spoke to steven that day and day before for 3.14 mins accumulated.

Tipsy McSwagger

Watching episode 3 now

Wombatman

How much similarity is Stephen's and Bobby's DNA given they are close relations?

Nirider was brutal at the en banc hearing, floundering while the states attorney nailed every issue or question thrown at him. She really let Brendan down considering it was a 4 to 3 split in the end. Looked like a complete, overly academic, armature. KZ practically says as much when suggesting how it should have been handled.

Uncharted

Wombatman wrote: »

How much similarity is Stephen's and Bobby's DNA given they are close relations?

Nirider was brutal at the en banc hearing, floundering while the states attorney nailed every issue or question thrown at him. She really let Brendan down considering it was a 4 to 3 split in the end. Looked like a complete, overly academic, armature. KZ practically says as much when suggesting how it should have been handled.

Agreed. Nirider was utterly out of her depth.

Checkmate19

Have a feeling this will run for a few more years. Probably another part. However be shocked if Avery gets a new trial or dassey gets out. Nobody in the county will grant Avery a new trial barring shocking new evidence.

extra gravy

Uncharted wrote: »

Agreed. Nirider was utterly out of her depth.

I thought it was noticeable that the judges kept interrupting her when she trying to make a point but didn't do that with the state solicitor. It was ignorant imo and could have put her off. The state solicitor was very impressive though and maybe Nirider just didn't have the nous for a higher court and the higher level of argument associated with it.

Uncharted

extra gravy wrote: »

I thought it was noticeable that the judges kept interrupting her when she trying to make a point but didn't do that with the state solicitor. Thought it was a bit ignorant tbh and could have affected her. The state solicitor was very impressive though.

I dunno. I think she was just flummoxed. I think the editing was kind to her perhaps....

I have Zellner in mind regarding this old quote....

"It's the old dog for the hard road and the pup for the path"

Checkmate19

Totally agree dassey council out of her depth. You only get one chance at these things.

PokeHerKing

extra gravy wrote: »

I thought it was noticeable that the judges kept interrupting her when she trying to make a point but didn't do that with the state solicitor. It was ignorant imo and could have put her off. The state solicitor was very impressive though and maybe Nirider just didn't have the nous for a higher court and the higher level of argument associated with it.

The judges that had already made their minds up interrupted both her and the state prosecutor.

The female judges that ruled in favour of Dassey lashed into the state prosecutor straight away and the male/female judges that were never for turning lashed into her in a similar fashion.

Most of the panel had their minds made up well before the oral arguments. She wasn't strong enough to sway either of the fence sitters.

Blanco100

Checkmate19 wrote: »

Totally agree dassey council out of her depth. You only get one chance at these things.

Agree with this, even the footage of her with her hands over her face, grimacing and deeply exhaling whilst practicing in the moot court, was amateur stuff. Sure its highly pressured, but at that level of courts system your representative needs to be different gravy altogether.

Zellner should have taken Brendans case instead in my opinion, surely his exoneration would open up possibilty of SA being exonerated in long run.

If Brendan doesnt get out then SA definitely isnt getting out. Imagine the farce of Avery being free and Dassey still being locked up considering his confession implicated Avery.

Tipsy McSwagger

On episode 4. So far the season is boring and each episode is dragged out. Saying that anytime Zellner is on screen it perks up.

bobsman

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

On episode 4. So far the season is boring and each episode is dragged out. Saying that anytime Zellner is on screen it perks up.

Zellner very watchable. It is dragging alright.

Mountainsandh

James Forde wrote: »

Is Tipsy McSwagger Ken Kratz?

I'm re-watching, but I'm skipping all the Brendan case bits, and all the family bits unless I see Barbs mouthing away. I just keep the bits with Zellner
But it's my 2nd time I guess, and now I know a lot more about the family (from my own research) I feel less empathy, and have less patience for the slow sad bits.

enfant terrible

runningbuddy wrote: »

Exactly.

TH went to the property assuming she was meeting "Barb". Not SA.

Stop talking sense, it was all a sick conspiracy against poor Steven Avery, they planted the bones, blood and DNA etc..

Does everyone know the story about the new girlfriend he got while in prison?

A leopard never changes its spots
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6Ryt0VowXw

bobsman

enfant terrible wrote: »

Stop talking sense, it was all a sick conspiracy against poor Steven Avery, they planted the bones, blood and DNA etc..

Does everyone know the story about the new girlfriend he got while in prison?

A leopard never changes its spots
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6Ryt0VowXw

Is that the "fiancée" who appeared on Dr Phil ????

bobsman

It is telling, none of avery's children have anything to do with him.

enfant terrible

bobsman wrote: »

Is that the "fianc who appeared on Dr Phil ????

Ya she said he was a sweet little teddy bear when she first met him.

Took a darker turn after that shockingly.

Uncharted

enfant terrible wrote: »

Ya she said he was a sweet little teddy bear when she first met him.

Took a darker turn after that shockingly.

Im not for a second denying Avery is a unpleasant character but she was a blatant media whore in fairness....

enfant terrible

Uncharted wrote: »

Im not for a second denying Avery is a unpleasant character but she was a blatant media whore in fairness....

Not only that he's a rapist and murderer.

Tipsy McSwagger

enfant terrible wrote: »

Ya she said he was a sweet little teddy bear when she first met him.

Took a darker turn after that shockingly.

Funnily enough she was in the episode I just watched. They made her out to be a golddigger, but she said she was worried about worrying or dark aspects of Stevens personality.

retro:electro

enfant terrible wrote: »

Not only that he's a rapist and murderer.

Might as well call him a cannibal too, since there’s as much evidence that he charred her up and fried her for dinner as there is that he raped her.

ie none.

enfant terrible

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Funnily enough she was in the episode I just watched. They made her out to be a golddigger, but she said she was worried about worrying or dark aspects of Stevens personality.

Who cares what she was, just glad she was able to show again that Avery is psychotic.

Didn't he also talk to fellow inmates about building a rape dungeon when he got out of prison.

Tipsy McSwagger

I don’t mind Zellner at all (so far) but I really can’t stand Brendan’s post conviction attorney. Big stupid smiley head on her.

Tipsy McSwagger

enfant terrible wrote: »

Who cares what she was, just glad she was able to show again that Avery is psychotic.

Didn't he also talk to fellow inmates about building a rape dungeon when he got out of prison.

No everyone in prison is bad, Steven is good.

enfant terrible

retro:electro wrote: »

Might as well call him a cannibal too, since there’s as much evidence that he charred her up and fried her for dinner as there is that he raped her.

ie none.

The guy with the bleach soaked trousers admitted it.

Oh right that confession doesn't count part of the conspiracy isn't it?

Those evil cops should be in jail not Steven Avery.

Surely mam of 4 will agree with that statement.

retro:electro

Ah don’t be jealous now just cos no one thanks your posts.

enfant terrible

retro:electro wrote: »

Ah don’t be jealous now just cos no one thanks your posts.

So I'm assuming you agree the confession by the soaked in bleach trousers guy doesn't count?

Poor guys they are the real victims in this show.