Will 1916 commemorations open up old wounds between Ireland and the brits?

Andy From Sligo

Will 1916 commemorations open up old wounds between Ireland and the brits at all do you think? dont you think some things best left in the past and just look forward to the future? will some issues surface again and bring about some animosity?

coolbeans

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Will 1916 commemorations open up old wounds between Ireland and the brits at all do you think? dont you think some things best left in the past and just look forward to the future? will some issues surface again and bring about some animosity?

The usual skanger types will make a brief kerfuffle but who cares what those losers think.

Fr_Dougal

Only if they use live ammo.

SEPT 23 1989

I really hope so

The_Valeyard

No, their celebration of previous wars does not open up old wounds with Germany, Rssuia, France, Spain, etc.


Our commemorations of very historical and important events will not open up old wounds either.

Aongus Von Bismarck

I've always found the idea of commemorating a failed uprising to be rather a stupid one. Surely the Irish would be better off getting their dose of historical nationalism in 1921?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Don't think the British really give a ****, to be honest.

kneemos

Truth of the matter is I doubt there's more than a few die hard shinners who give a shoite about 1916.

fleet_admiral

coolbeans wrote: »

The usual skanger types will make a brief kerfuffle but who cares what those losers think.

If there are commemorations on a Sat/Sun afternoon it might clash with their premier league teams in action

pablomakaveli

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

I've always found the idea of commemorating a failed uprising to be rather a stupid one. Surely the Irish would be better off getting their dose of historical nationalism in 1921?

Failed or not the Rising saw the proclomation of the republic and began the chain of events that led to independence in 1922.It was a pretty significant event in our nations history and should be commemerated.

dotsman

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Failed or not the Rising saw the proclomation of the republic and began the chain of events that led to independence in 1922.It was a pretty significant event in our nations history and should be commemerated.

One of many, many, many events in our history, and far from the most important, nor one which we should have much pride in (nobody came out of 1916 shining!).

I'm not saying it should be ignored - it shouldn't. But I really can't understand why everybody has been hyping up the centenary over the past few years (and the next few months is going to be horrific), as if it was the be all and end all of Irish history.

Is it simply because most Irish people don't know/understand our history whereas the 1916 rising has had several movies made about it, so everybody has heard of it and has a vague knowledge of it?

Dirty Dingus McGee

No.

fergiesfolly

What I'd like to see come out of all this, is a better understanding of Anglo-Irish history from all sides, but particularly from the British.
The knowledge of the British public to what happened here pre 1969 is pretty sparse.

Grandeeod

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

I've always found the idea of commemorating a failed uprising to be rather a stupid one. Surely the Irish would be better off getting their dose of historical nationalism in 1921?

You don't know your history very well, do you?

KingBrian2

dotsman wrote: »

One of many, many, many events in our history, and far from the most important, nor one which we should have much pride in (nobody came out of 1916 shining!).

I'm not saying it should be ignored - it shouldn't. But I really can't understand why everybody has been hyping up the centenary over the past few years (and the next few months is going to be horrific), as if it was the be all and end all of Irish history.

Is it simply because most Irish people don't know/understand our history whereas the 1916 rising has had several movies made about it, so everybody has heard of it and has a vague knowledge of it?

Not really mostly because our Founding Republicans all fought in the Easter Rising for Irish Independence.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

I've always found the idea of commemorating a failed uprising to be rather a stupid one. Surely the Irish would be better off getting their dose of historical nationalism in 1921?

That would be an insult to the nationalists in the North and is more than likely the reason it doesn't get treated with the same significance.

1916 was a key point in the 26 counties becoming independent but it was intended for a 32 county Independent country so is more appropriate as a commemoration of an Independent Ireland than 1921.

kneemos

fergiesfolly wrote: »

What I'd like to see come out of all this, is a better understanding of Anglo-Irish history from all sides, but particularly from the British.
The knowledge of the British public to what happened here pre 1969 is pretty sparse.

Do you honestly think they care?

KingBrian2

kneemos wrote: »

Do you honestly think they care?

Seeing as were fellow EU members they should take the time learn it.

secman

England France & Germany seem to get on
... after a slightly bigger rift...... gets coat and leaves.....

byhookorbycrook

Celebration yes, commemoration no.

The_Valeyard

secman wrote: »

England France & Germany seem to get on
... after a slightly bigger rift...... gets coat and leaves.....

After two large bar fights, they figured it was about time they stopped smashing up their only pub and keep one eye on the shifty Starbucks kid and another on that large bear that is slowly getting closer.

Grandeeod

dotsman wrote: »

One of many, many, many events in our history, and far from the most important, nor one which we should have much pride in (nobody came out of 1916 shining!).

I'm not saying it should be ignored - it shouldn't. But I really can't understand why everybody has been hyping up the centenary over the past few years (and the next few months is going to be horrific), as if it was the be all and end all of Irish history.

Is it simply because most Irish people don't know/understand our history whereas the 1916 rising has had several movies made about it, so everybody has heard of it and has a vague knowledge of it?

WTF age are you and what school did you attend? Did you do history at that school? The 1916 Rising is important because without it, 1921 and 1922 events would most likely not have happened.

Please name one more important event in Irish History and also why we should have no pride in the 1916 event.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

lazybones32

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Will 1916 commemorations open up old wounds between Ireland and the brits at all do you think? dont you think some things best left in the past and just look forward to the future? will some issues surface again and bring about some animosity?

It'll cause strife if the celebrations are conducted in a subtle/overt "f**k you!" fashion - kinda like certain sections of the orange community in the North.

I hope the real story isn't glossed over, in some sham celebration of forced Nationalism.

riffmongous

kneemos wrote: »

Do you honestly think they care?

Why do people constantly run down the ordinary english people and try portray that as a bunch of ignorant little englanders who coudnt give a **** about anything beyond their own borders? The vast majority of english I know are interested in Irish history when you talk to them about it, they just don't know very much about it, which is a shame but not surprising, considering what their government got up to over here

Grandeeod

riffmongous wrote: »

Why do people constantly run down the ordinary english people and try portray that as a bunch of ignorant little englanders who coudnt give a **** about anything beyond their own borders? The vast majority of english I know are interested in Irish history when you talk to them about it, they just don't know very much about it, which is a shame but not surprising, considering what their government got up to over here

Interesting point and I somewhat agree. There is interest, but the school system let them down, which is why they innocently come across as ignorant. I've had those conversations. In Ireland we learned about English history and occupation of Ireland. In England you learned about the Empire and how great it was. If anglo irish history was taught in English schools, we'd all get along better than we do now.

Orangebrigade

I don't see why it would open any wounds unless you are Irish who yet again lost another battle.

I for one will be celebrating that defeat.

dotsman

Grandeeod wrote: »

WTF age are you and what school did you attend? Did you do history at that school? The 1916 Rising is important because without it, 1921 and 1922 events would most likely not have happened.

Please name one more important event in Irish History and also why we should have no pride in the 1916 event.

And without all the events prior to 1916, the Easter Rising wouldn't have happened. That's how history works - we are where we are today as a result of the accumulation of every event prior to this date. So when we look at events from a historical significance, we look at how different things would be had they not occurred.

To list but a few events (off the top of my head) that have as much, if not more significance, I would throw out things such as the viking invasions and subsequent settlements, the battle of Clontarf, the Norman invasion, Henry VIII, the plantations (notably the Cromwellian and Ulster plantations), Battle of the Boyne, 1798, The Act of Union, the Famine, the Treaty, the Civil War... the list goes on.

In relation to pride - who the fcuk could be "proud" of the events of 1916??? Maybe you could list the reasons why we should be "proud". Its not that I am ashamed or anything like that, I just don't see much to be "proud" of.

Berserker

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

I've always found the idea of commemorating a failed uprising to be rather a stupid one. Surely the Irish would be better off getting their dose of historical nationalism in 1921?

Oh, it would be correct for them to do so in 1921 but 1916 has been blown up into some massive romantic event. It's trendy to have a relative who was present at the GPO that day. It's just as likely that an Irish person had a relative who was on the "other side", in truth. Let them have their day/weekend. It'll be a massive Paddy's style pee up. Best to lock up the house, park the car at the airport and head off for a few days that weekend, as a neighbour of mine said to me last weekend.

They'll end up falling out with each other over the content of the celebrations anyway. SF, RSF, Eirigi are all planning their own, separate celebrations.

kneemos wrote: »

Do you honestly think they care?

It will probably get a mention on Sky News and those who are over in Dublin that weekend for a stag will read about it in the papers. It could be an issue up north. The nationalist community will probably celebrate it in their own unique way, ahem.

Dyr

fergiesfolly wrote: »

What I'd like to see come out of all this, is a better understanding of Anglo-Irish history from all sides, but particularly from the British.
The knowledge of the British public to what happened here pre 1969 is pretty sparse.

They wouldn't be winning any pub quizzes on the topic post '69 either

"is thaff souvern irlawnd then?

0ph0rce0

The usual ballbags out in force already, always someone on here trying to find a way to discredit their own people.

Lets celebrate the Invasions :rolleyes:

If you don't like or want to celebrate your countries fine history, **** Off

bobbysands81

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Seeing as were fellow EU members they should take the time learn it.

Why would they care about us?

We're obsessed by them due to the overbearing relationship that they have on us (and had on most of the rest of the world).

Our relationship with Britain is akin to that of a battered wife always seeking approval and love from the abusive husband knowing that it'll never come... but always returning to him and forgiving him clinging to the vain hope that we can change him but knowing we never will.

cml387

Here's the thing. When will they commemorate the actual day? Will it be Easter Monday 2016 which is the 28 March, or the actual day which was April 24.

Or will we have two, for the crack.

Banjoxed

The Ireland of 2016 without a 1916 rising would look exactly the same as the Ireland of today. Self rule in the 26 counties was going to happen anyway. In fact it was the conscription crisis of 1917-18 that galvanised Sinn Féin as a more radical alternative to the Irish Parliamentary Party and the All-for-Ireland breakaway party.

Andy From Sligo

cml387 wrote: »

Here's the thing. When will they commemorate the actual day? Will it be Easter Monday 2016 which is the 28 March, or the actual day which was April 24.

Or will we have two, for the crack.

All of 2016! every day!

Berserker

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

The usual ballbags out in force already, always someone on here trying to find a way to discredit their own people.

Lets celebrate the Invasions :rolleyes:

If you don't like or want to celebrate your countries fine history, **** Off

An Ireland for all, eh! Isn't that what republicans say? Ireland's Anglicisation is celebrated each and every day through the use of language and the culture of a heavy majority of people in the RoI. 1916 has no relevance. The RoI in 2016 would be pretty much the same if it didn't happen.

cml387

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Our relationship with Britain is akin to that of a battered wife always seeking approval and love from the abusive husband knowing that it'll never come... but always returning to him and forgiving him clinging to the vain hope that we can change him but knowing we never will.

Well that's your view. I'd compare it with the the next door neighbours whom we envy, never averse to borrowing a bob or two off them, or watching their television through the windows.

greenflash

cml387 wrote: »

Here's the thing. When will they commemorate the actual day? Will it be Easter Monday 2016 which is the 28 March, or the actual day which was April 24.

Or will we have two, for the crack.

Better off having two. To be sure to be sure.

KingBrian2

It is also the 200 years since the Ha' penny bridge was built this May.

Berserker

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Why would they care about us?

We're obsessed by them due to the overbearing relationship that they have on us (and had on most of the rest of the world).

Our relationship with Britain is akin to that of a battered wife always seeking approval and love from the abusive husband knowing that it'll never come... but always returning to him and forgiving him clinging to the vain hope that we can change him but knowing we never will.

You having a laugh. I would say that a certain percentage of the people in the RoI are utterly obsessed with Britain, in a negative way. They are like attention seeking teenagers.

Junkyard Tom

Banjoxed wrote: »

The Ireland of 2016 without a 1916 rising would look exactly the same as the Ireland of today.

Based on nothing and also wrong. The expansion of the British welfare state would have made independence economically painful the longer we remained under British control.

Extended Home Rule would have been a disaster for this nation and thankfully the men of 1916 set in motion events that led to us booting the British out of the majority of the island.

questionmark?

Berserker wrote: »

An Ireland for all, eh! Isn't that what republicans say? Ireland's Anglicisation is celebrated each and every day through the use of language and the culture of a heavy majority of people in the RoI. 1916 has no relevance. The RoI in 2016 would be pretty much the same if it didn't happen.

I say they got the timing pretty right. If it was after WW2 we would still be part of the UK, SF would be the noisy group joining the other noisy party the SNP in Westminster.

cml387

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Based on nothing and also wrong. The expansion of the British welfare state would have made independence economically painful the longer we remained under British control.

You mean enhanced benefits for all Irish citizens, and a national health service. Well we sure dodged a bullet there.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Just think of the thousands that would have died in WW2 (and subsequently the thousands who would not have been born) if had we still been part of the UK at that point in time.

We should be thankful we got out of the UK when we did

questionmark?

cml387 wrote: »

You mean enhanced benefits for all Irish citizens, and a national health service. Well we sure dodged a bullet there.

NHS isn't all its made out to be. Postcode lottery really comes into play for standards in hospitals and try getting a doctors appointment in some areas! It's better in some areas and just as bad as Ireland in others.

Richard

Banjoxed wrote: »

The Ireland of 2016 without a 1916 rising would look exactly the same as the Ireland of today.

It's arguable that Ireland would never have been partitioned if the rising hadn't happened. If Ireland had stayed in the UK (but with Home Rule) it could have gradually attained independence as a whole in the same way that Scotland nearly did last year.

Berserker

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Extended Home Rule would have been a disaster for this nation and thankfully the men of 1916 set in motion events that led to us booting the British out of the majority of the island.

Yeah, it would have been dreadful alright. All the great work that Irish republicans did, like handing ownership of the country over to the RCC, who used that leverage to ..... we all know the score there ...., would never have happened, for starters.

Richard wrote: »

It's arguable that Ireland would never have been partitioned if the rising hadn't happened. If Ireland had stayed in the UK (but with Home Rule) it could have gradually attained independence as a whole in the same way that Scotland nearly did last year.

Nail on the head Richard. Top post.

Junkyard Tom

cml387 wrote: »

You mean enhanced benefits for all Irish citizens, and a national health service. Well we sure dodged a bullet there.

I don't think you've given it much thought. Dodging bullets would have been a regular occurrence in an Ireland under extended British Rule. The desire for independence would not suddenly have disappeared because of any 'benefits' - not a bit. There would still have been plenty of people carrying out attacks on the British security apparatus - think the north in the 80's only island wide and a lot more ferocious.

masti123

cml387 wrote: »

Here's the thing. When will they commemorate the actual day? Will it be Easter Monday 2016 which is the 28 March, or the actual day which was April 24.

Or will we have two, for the crack.

The reason it makes sense to commemorate the Rising at Easter, rather than on the 24th, is that the Rising was deliberately scheduled for whenever Easter was, not because it was the 24th. Easter was consciously chosen to make a parallel with the Sacrifice of Christ, the sanctifying power of death so that there might be life, etc. Pearse was very heavy on the symbolism, and the Catholic imagery was deliberate. If Easter had fallen on March 30th instead, the Rising would have been scheduled for that day instead, thus commemorating at Easter is correct.

asherbassad

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Will 1916 commemorations open up old wounds between Ireland and the brits at all do you think? dont you think some things best left in the past and just look forward to the future? will some issues surface again and bring about some animosity?

Nah.....Bloody Sunday and the subsequent coverup, internment without trial, collusion with pro-Union death squads, destruction of civil rights, gerrymandering of electoral boundaries and a shoot-to-kill policy by the most discredited police force in Europe probably opened those wounds 50 years after 1916.

Dyr

Berserker wrote: »

Yeah, it would have been dreadful alright. All the great work that Irish republicans did, like handing ownership of the country over to the RCC, who used that leverage to ..... we all know the score there ...., for starters.

I love this Irish history-for-the-not-very-clever class of guff