Will 1916 commemorations open up old wounds between Ireland and the brits?

Iwasfrozen

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Iwasfrozen is pretending he cares about violence which is simply not true. I would respect a pacifist if he was condemning violence because they have a degree of credibility.

IWF, on the other hand, only cares about his unbridled hatred of Republicans and Nationalists which is why you won't read anything by him about the horrific violence of British colonialism in Ireland or that of the RUC/UDR or British Army in the north in more recent times.

Are you still foaming at the mouth and making up nonsense because some people won't join your unbridled support for terrorism?

Your political views have a lot of maturing to do.

Junkyard Tom

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Are you still foaming at the mouth :mad: and making up nonsense because some people won't join your unbridled support for terrorism? :mad:

Your political views have a lot of maturing to do. :mad::mad:

Now now. Don't get angry because I have the measure of you.

Dan_Solo

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Are you still foaming at the mouth and making up nonsense because some people won't join your unbridled support for terrorism?

Your political views have a lot of maturing to do.

You haven't answered of course.
Are all violent acts of resistance terrorism?

Iwasfrozen

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Now now. Don't get angry because I have the measure of you.

The most angry poster on boards inserting angry emoticons into my posts would be humorous if it wasn't disturbing.

Not only do you pass terrorists off as hero's because they wave the same flag as you, you seem incapable of acknowleding the death and destruction caused by these terrorists as a negative thing.

Like I said before, your political views have a lot of maturing to do. Providing a country has individual personal freedoms and rights it doesn't matter what flag flies or where the country is administered from. But you're too caught up in tribalism to see that.

Iwasfrozen

Dan_Solo wrote: »

You haven't answered of course.
Are all violent acts of resistance terrorism?

Armed resistance is terrorism and as I said below:

"Armed resistance, apart of on a few exceptions generally leads to more death and suffering."

Eugene Norman

Muff Richardson wrote: »

ye know one of those lads that frantically googles facts and then tries to pass it off as his own general knowledge....but still comes across as a complete thicko, this is it in its essence

Yes. The American war of independence didn't stop violence, the expansion of the US from its 13 colonies to its modern day involved wars against Native American tribes and Mexico, but that was violence against the little people so to IWF it doesn't count.

tomwaterford

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Armed resistance is terrorism and as I said below:

"Armed resistance, apart of on a few exceptions generally leads to more death and suffering."

Given Britons history of famines and wars etc and the way ireland managed to avoided being roped into helping it's empire in ww2 it could easily be said the war of independence in Ireland prevented deaths of Irish people on a much larger scale??

The_Valeyard

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

George Washington was certainly a terrorist in his time as well as a traitor but thankfully the American War of Independence is one of the few tines armed resistance has not led to decades of needless death and violence. Unlike 1916.

Wha??????

Right that does it. That's enough internet for today. My stupid post filter needs cleaning. Goodnight all.

Eugene Norman

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Armed resistance is terrorism and as I said below:

"Armed resistance, apart of on a few exceptions generally leads to more death and suffering."

So the Native American resistance to your "non-violent" American republic was terrorism? The French resistance? The ANC etc?

Iwasfrozen

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Yes. The American war of independence didn't stop violence, the expansion of the US from its 13 colonies to its modern day involved wars against Native American tribes and Mexico, but that was violence against the little people so to IWF it doesn't count.

Don't put words into my mouth. The American war of Independence did not cause native American displacement because that displacement would have occurred regardless of the wars outcome. Or regardless of whether the war even happened. But you know this, don't be obtuse for the sake of argument.

Junkyard Tom

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The most angry poster on boards inserting angry emoticons into my posts would be humouous if it wasn't disturbing.

I'm quite calm and at peace with myself on these issues.

Not only do you pass terrorists off as hero's because they wave the same flag as you, you seem incapable of acknowleding the death and destruction caused by these terrorists as a negative thing.

Wrong.

Challenge. Go back through my posts and find one post that glorifies violence and I will donate €50 to Santa Strike Force. If you can't find one post then you donate €50 to SSF. We can agree on an AH mod as the final adjudicator on this challenge if he's okay with it I will abide by any ruling he makes.

Like I said before, your political views have a lot of maturing to do.

Sorry, I don't care what you think. If the 1916 rebels had thought like you you'd be describing yourself as British.

Providing a country has individual personal freedoms and rights it doesn't matter what flag flies or where the country is administered from.

Yeah because there's a real country on planet earth where that's a truth.

But you're too caught up in tribalism to see that.

Tribalism elevated us from the other animals. There's nothing wrong with being of a tribe sweetpea.

Dan_Solo

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Armed resistance is terrorism and as I said below:

"Armed resistance, apart of on a few exceptions generally leads to more death and suffering."

So resistance is "terrorism"? Presumably invading a country in the first place is also terrorism?
What about stealing a guy's pint? Terrorism too I guess?
Kinda pointless your word "terrorism" (or is that turrsm) isn't it? Watch Fox a lot by any chance?

MPFGLB

dubscottie wrote: »

Skipping through the posts..

The usual English=Bad thing... Rabble rabble.. Scotland!

Its all the usual left wing nuts that want a Communist state (same posters as in the politics forum)

Everyone keeps calling it colonialism.. Ireland was not.. It got the same treatment as the rest of the regions of the UK got.. Highland clearances in Scotland?? May want to look it up..

And I am Scottish and would have voted NO for independence.. Am I Scottish or a Brit..

In answer to your post you sound drunk or deluded
Not one post on here is calling for communism??
And Scotland is a colony of Britain (as Rep of Ireland was), no matter that you spent millions building a parliament in Edinburgh and have the SNP floundering in Westminster every week

but don't worry when the oil has run out I am sure Westminster will let you go your own way

MPFGLB

Dan_Solo wrote: »

So resistance is "terrorism"? Presumably invading a country in the first place is also terrorism?
What about stealing a guy's pint? Terrorism too I guess?
Kinda pointless your word "terrorism" (or is that turrsm) isn't it? Watch Fox a lot by any chance?

No its not... resisting somone trying to steal your pint is

Eugene Norman

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Don't put words into my mouth. The American war of Independence did not cause native American displacement because that displacement would have occurred regardless of the wars outcome. Or regardless of whether the war even happened. But you know this, don't be obtuse for the sake of argument.

Firstly you said

Independence is one of the few tines armed resistance has not led to decades of needless death and violence

But it clearly did lead to violence. Secondly the British weren't all that interested in expansion, in fact that's often one of the reasons cited for the war. Thirdly Britain almost certainly wouldn't have bothered fighting for Mexican territory in California and Texas, or purchased Louisiana or Alaska.


These arguments would be better if you had ever bothered a history book. Btw India, Hong Kong etc were outliers - most countries that left the Empire had some kind of war of independence.

the_syco

coolbeans wrote: »

The usual skanger types will make a brief kerfuffle but who cares what those losers think.

Would these be the ones that pledge allegiance to the english football teams over their local GAA, and wear said football teams jerseys? Then yes, yes it would.

LordSutch

LeeLooLee wrote: »

I haven't read the whole thread, but I'd be surprised to meet a Brit who had any idea about 1916. A good proportion think all of Ireland is part of the UK.

I said as much, and more in #216

Nodin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Are you still foaming at the mouth and making up nonsense because some people won't join your unbridled support for terrorism?

.

I'm sorry, but you have no problem with violence no more than I do. Your "outrage" is aimed generally at Irish nationalism and republicanism and seldom strays. There are no end of posts you've made which show this quite clearly.

Lord sutch wrote:

(while retaining our rightful place within the Commonwealth), .

You mean the 'Can't Afford An Empire Anymore But Cheers For The Memories' club the British run? No, if they want to remember the good old days they can do it without us, though its a shame they can't get a rehash through the occasional war crimes trial like the Germans, Serbs and the rest.

lord sutch wrote:

Rightful for us, and for (what would have been) our natural trading connections with all the commonwealth countries of the globe, many of which had/have deep family connections with Ireland.

The "deep family connection" of abused and abuser. Well with a few adjustments it could be turned into a "Survivors Of British Abuse" organisation and might be of use that way.

You might find celebrating centuries of systematic institutionalised racism and sectarianism deeply moving, but that view is dying off. There will come a day soon when the statues of Cecil Rhodes and his ilk join Stalin and Hitler in some muddy excrement filled pit. The union jack will be removed from flags much as the confederate flag has been. Untold hundreds of thousands of dead are no less a crime when they are Asians and Africans than when they are Europeans and that's lowly becoming the mainstream view.

lord sutch wrote:

And now almost one hunderd years later we are still feeling the ramifications of
those fine "young rebels" as you describe them, and their wreckless &
feckless blood lust.

The blood lust of the rebel is the problem, I note, but not the conquerors.

ch750536

As a brit living on the west coast I dont think there will be an issue. Any hatred spurted my way would be ignorant of my kids born in Kerry, my wife's parents born in Limerick, my grand parents from Mayo. Ireland & UK is intertwined.

Fratton Fred

tomwaterford wrote: »

Given Britons history of famines and wars etc and the way ireland managed to avoided being roped into helping it's empire in ww2 it could easily be said the war of independence in Ireland prevented deaths of Irish people on a much larger scale??

Yeah, Ireland's involvement in ww2 (especially the IRA's) was something to be proud of alright.

tomwaterford

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Yeah, Ireland's involvement in ww2 (especially the IRA's) was something to be proud of alright.

At least we didn't have Briton giving a nod/wink that if time is right after the war they'll give partial independence while all the while sending a generation off to die for its empire??

Sunnyisland

Is there any other nation on this earth ashamed by the manner of their creation I would like to know.

I will be remembering the rising with a sense of pride and optimism for the future, a better republic.
I will not be joining those that downplay the importance of it, that look for forgiveness for it, those who tell us to except our lot.

The only shame is pity the rising did not happen sooner.




Happy Christmas to all.

foxcoverteddy

realies wrote: »

Is there any other nation on this earth ashamed by the manner of their creation I would like to know.

I will be remembering the rising with a sense of pride and optimism for the future, a better republic.
I will not be joining those that downplay the importance of it, that look for forgiveness for it, those who tell us to except our lot.

The only shame is pity the rising did not happen sooner.




Happy Christmas to all.[/quote
Wasn't ww2 slightly different, it was either fight or be over run, our freedom today is a result of the sacrifice of so many brave souls, do you think the nazi regime would have let Ireland remain, oh dear no, why not enjoy your freedom and yes remember the past but look forward to the future

Nodin

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Yeah, Ireland's involvement in ww2 (especially the IRA's) was something to be proud of alright.

Sorry Fred, but for a second there I thought you were comparing neutrality and some deal making with centuries of celebrated international robbery, racism and sectarianism. Almost like you thought there was some possible point you could make.

Dan_Solo

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

Wasn't ww2 slightly different, it was either fight or be over run, our freedom today is a result of the sacrifice of so many brave souls, do you think the nazi regime would have let Ireland remain, oh dear no, why not enjoy your freedom and yes remember the past but look forward to the future

Nope. Resisting the Nazis was "murderous terrorism" too.
Apparently.

Palbear

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Ah right, so the Queen graciously gave us a little present of independence after all her most welcome hard work civilizing us savages. Nothing to do with the war of Independence, just a coincidence.

The Queen didn't give us anything.
The Parliament of the United Kingdom enacted the Irish Free State Constitution Act.
She signed it into law.

Fratton Fred

Nodin wrote: »

Sorry Fred, but for a second there I thought you were comparing neutrality and some deal making with centuries of celebrated international robbery, racism and sectarianism. Almost like you thought there was some possible point you could make.

What deal was that?

We'll help you get a United Ireland, all you have to do is ship all your Jews, disabled, communists etc off to a holiday camp in Poland?

And you're proud of that?

Fratton Fred

Palbear wrote: »

The Queen didn't give us anything.
The Parliament of the United Kingdom enacted the Irish Free State Constitution Act.
She signed it into law.

Before she was born?

Impressive.

MPFGLB

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What deal was that?

We'll help you get a United Ireland, all you have to do is ship all your Jews, disabled, communists etc off to a holiday camp in Poland?

And you're proud of that?

Nobody was shipping anyone one off to 'holiday camps' in Poland. I dare say the Irish minority in the IRA knew a great deal less about what the Nazis were up than say Chamberlain and his piece of White paper or the Americans who refused to take ships of Jewish people bound for the gas chambers. The Irish governments stance on neutrality was just that ...not a condoning of the Nazis...but lets align ourselves with the ignorance of the few why don't we

This constant self loathing is both hypocritical and tedious

Plus the fact is the Irish government while defending the stance of neutrality were secretly supporting the allies in food supply and other commodities ..

Nodin

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What deal(...........)of that?

So you've dropped the remarks about neutrality, and now want to compare the actions (and those actions not nessecarily being as you describe) of some twenty or thirty people at most, to the direct policies of a nation state carried out over centuries up unto the last few decades. And of course personalise the debate by asking me personally if I was "proud of that". There are times, Fred, when its better to admit that one is on a hiding to nothing rather than worsen the situation.