Will 1916 commemorations open up old wounds between Ireland and the brits?

Dyr

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What deal was that?

We'll help you get a United Ireland, all you have to do is ship all your Jews, disabled, communists etc off to a holiday camp in Poland?

And you're proud of that?

I would'nt get up on the high horse too much about uncle adolfs camps there, he didnt lick that idea off a stone. Himself and winston were singing off the same sheet when it came to what non-aryans deserved.

Schadenfreudia

LordSutch wrote: »

You mention the word murder, but surely that's what the Rebels had been involved in prior to their surrender/capture. Take the old umarmed policeman standing outside Dublin castle, who had his brains blown out at point blank range < The 1st act of the Rising.

PS; Question, do we know which rebel did this?

In the general scheme of things the execution of one servant of Empire was an irrelevance. :cool:

In fact, in the context of the mass slaughter his paymasters were engaged in at the time, there is something fetishistic about dwelling on such an irrelevance.

The Empire the rebels opposed slaughtered hundreds of millions (including several genocides in Ireland) - but we should balance against that the fate of one of the Imperial foot-soldiers who was in the wrong place at the wrong time?

Lmfao! :rolleyes:

Nodin

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

In the general scheme of things the execution of one servant of Empire was an irrelevance. :cool:

In fact, in the context of the mass slaughter his paymasters were engaged in at the time, there is something fetishistic about dwelling on such an irrelevance.

The Empire the rebels opposed slaughtered hundreds of millions (including several genocides in Ireland) - but we should balance against that the fate of one of the Imperial foot-soldiers who was in the wrong place at the wrong time?

Lmfao! :rolleyes:

Black humour at its height. In the same decade as cromwellian style seizures in Africa, one crown servant is worth mention over untold thousands of massacred non-Europeans and the suffering of their families at the loss of their kin and their dignity.

marmurr1916

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Will 1916 commemorations open up old wounds between Ireland and the brits at all do you think? dont you think some things best left in the past and just look forward to the future? will some issues surface again and bring about some animosity?

No. Because the vast majority of British people know little or nothing about Ireland, pay no attention to Ireland and couldn't give a toss about Ireland.

I've lived in several different parts of Britain and for the most part they don't know and don't care about what happens in Ireland.

A lot of Irish people don't seem to understand that the people on the big island across the Irish Sea are pretty much indifferent to events on the smaller island to its west.

hmmm

It's pretty sad to spend your life spitting bile because of something English people (none of who are alive today) did hundreds of years ago. Very very sad.

Fratton Fred

hmmm wrote: »

It's pretty sad to spend your life spitting bile because of something English people (none of who are alive today) did hundreds of years ago. Very very sad.

Some people have no other purpose in life.

Fratton Fred

Nodin wrote: »

So you've dropped the remarks about neutrality, and now want to compare the actions (and those actions not nessecarily being as you describe) of some twenty or thirty people at most, to the direct policies of a nation state carried out over centuries up unto the last few decades. And of course personalise the debate by asking me personally if I was "proud of that". There are times, Fred, when its better to admit that one is on a hiding to nothing rather than worsen the situation.

But but but.....

Sean Russell and the IRA collaborated with the Nazis. The same people are today considered heroes by the republican movement.

Are you proud of that?

Orangebrigade

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Indeed, the British forced Unionists into power sharing with people they NEVER, NEVER, NEVER wanted to. Do you remember when the British did this too? The British army bringing Unionists and Loyalists to heel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbNJFM63v3g

I understand your type have awful difficulty moving on from the past but have you realised that The Boyne is now here in the Republic of Ireland in 2015?

Talk about desperation from you. I don't care who runs Northern Ireland and most people don't either. The constitutional status is settled.

What has the location of the field of the battle got to do with anything? It was an example of a victory which is something Irish Republicans don't know much about.

You have got your banana Republic, so what is the issue?

MPFGLB

hmmm wrote: »

It's pretty sad to spend your life spitting bile because of something English people (none of who are alive today) did hundreds of years ago. Very very sad.

No one is spitting bile about what English people did in the past The arguments are about the British Empire ...a method of ruling ...not about a group of people

I see that you do not understand the difference and the implied judgement of sadness is but another low attempt to defer from the debate because your arguments are so flimsy and ridiculous

These post are defense of the right to commemorate what Irish people did in the past

ToddyDoody

Did you know.. Ireland is the only country in the world to have a lower population now than in 1830.

Orangebrigade

masti123 wrote: »

Ehh, not really. Let's look at the reason why SF won the 1918 election? Oh yes they were uncontested in most constituencies.

Why were seats uncontested? Because the status quo had been established the year prior with 3 SF election victories, 2 of which were dodgy as ****. When DeV was elected in Clare the volunteers formed an armed cordon around the city and wouldn't let any non SF voters past. Equally McGuinness' by election victory was just as dodgy. He actually lost the election until an IRA gun was put to the counting officers head to suggest a recount, and surprise surprise he won on the recount. So the situation by which the 1918 victory came about through uncontested areas was undemocratic and brought about by militancy.

They don't teach Irish people this now do they. I feel so sad for Irish people being denied the real truth of what happened.

Sinn Fein have always been murdering and corrupt cowards.

MPFGLB

p

Fratton Fred wrote: »

But but but.....

Sean Russell and the IRA collaborated with the Nazis. The same people are today considered heroes by the republican movement.

Are you proud of that?

And people in Britain, France , US collaborated with the Nazi but does anyone put that forward as a reason to not commemorate their countries historical moments

No one country, movement or race has all the right on their side or are purer than pure....

You are like a dog with a (one dimensional argument ) bone...You are banging the same drum over and over again because you hve very little else to contribute

Orangebrigade

opiniated wrote: »

You're joking, right?



Your bitterness is astounding! 26 Counties out of 32 is a victory, compared to those who were left with six. A partial victory, it's true - but still a victory compared to 6 Counties.



Most of those men who went to join the war effort went there because they and their families were starving.



So, what is your opinion of those people who invaded this Country?
Were they "terrorists", too?

A victory lol. A priest ridden state controlled from top to bottom by Rome and its political establishment.

Doesn't the Irish constitution have or did have a section in it giving special protection to Catholicism.

Orangebrigade

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Yeah, Ireland's involvement in ww2 (especially the IRA's) was something to be proud of alright.

They would have been more than happy to let the Nazis just walk right in if it meant cleansing "the Brits" out. One of the great shames on the Irish Republic.

Dyr

Orangebrigade wrote: »

A victory lol. A priest ridden state controlled from top to bottom by Rome and its political establishment.

Doesn't the Irish constitution have or did have a section in it giving special protection to Catholicism.

You could check and see if its a part of our constitution, mainly because Ireland actually has a constitution.

The first head of state of the republic was a protestant, isn't Britain's head of state still welded to a certain religious sect?

Dyr

Orangebrigade wrote: »

They don't teach Irish people this now do they. I feel so sad for Irish people being denied the real truth of what happened.

Sinn Fein have always been murdering and corrupt cowards.

They dont teach it for the same reason they don't us about the protocols of the elders of zion, because its nonsense.

but then the scottish presbyterian mindeset has always had a grá for conspiracy theories, so long as they involved some rival group

Orangebrigade

Bambi wrote: »

They dont teach it for the same reason they don't us about the protocols of the elders of zion, because its nonsense.

but then the scottish presbyterian mindeset has always had a grá for conspiracy theories, so long as they involved some rival group

That Sinn Fein used intimidation election tactics is nonsense? :pac:

Jimoslimos

I wonder, do some people here feel the same about the Dutch and French resistance movements during the Second World War?

Nodin

Fratton Fred wrote: »

But but but.....

Sean Russell (.................) that?

You're stating "but but but" at me in a thread on 1916 when you've brought up (a) WWII (b) Irish neutrality (c) Sean Russell. Keep digging Fred, its only yourself going down.

marmurr1916

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Armed resistance is terrorism and as I said below:

"Armed resistance, apart of on a few exceptions generally leads to more death and suffering."

I'm going to get an armed group together to invade your country and take it from you. I will plant colonists across your country and banish you and your kind to the least productive areas of the island. You will have to live under my rules, accept that I am superior to you and accept that your impoverishment is the result of your laziness and not my theft of your land and resources. During my rule, many of you will die as a result of your impoverishment and the desperate living conditions you live in. I will make some token efforts to help you, but I will allow over a million of you to starve to death. If you complain about this, it will simply confirm my view that you are too lazy and unintelligent to be considered fully human. If you resist in any way, I will use violent suppression, including mass killing if I deem it necessary. If you resist me using violence I will counter with greater violence, including killing non-combatants and destruction of civilian property. I will forever condemn you as a terrorist for using violent resistance against my rule. Happy Christmas!

Dyr

Orangebrigade wrote: »

That Sinn Fein used intimidation election tactics is nonsense? :pac:

That sinn fein didn't win the 1918 election by a democratic landslide is nonsense

but then if you want to contest that go ahead me ould flower. I'd say the history of the irish republic is one of your strong points

the_syco

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Yeah, Ireland's involvement in ww2 (especially the IRA's) was something to be proud of alright.

How the Irish treated the Irish (who fought with the allies) when they came back after the war is shameful!

MPFGLB wrote: »

Plus the fact is the Irish government while defending the stance of neutrality were secretly supporting the allies in food supply and other commodities ..

And give the Nazis a safe place to stay... heck, they allowed Andrija Artuković in!

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Before she was born?

Impressive.

Ah here, don't let facts get in the way of a shinner rant. They never have before :pac:

mariecxx

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Don't think the British really give a ****, to be honest.

This is true. I moved over here from London when I was 13 (in my early 20's now) and in primary school we weren't taught anything about Irish history- and I went to a Catholic primary school. We mainly learnt about the Romans and particularly WWI and WWII. I also attended secondary school for two years (as we go to secondary school at 11) and we didn't learn anything about the Irish Civil War etc. It's still the same now. I asked my younger cousin if she knew who Michael Collins was and she didn't have a clue. I only really learnt about the hatred the Irish have for the British when a girl in the year above me called me a "tan" hahaha. You can choose to study Irish History as part of a module for A- Level but that's about it. As it's regarded as such a minor part of British history it isn't even touched upon. I highly doubt any of my friends in London will care about "100 years".

R P McMurphy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

But but but.....

Sean Russell and the IRA collaborated with the Nazis. The same people are today considered heroes by the republican movement.

Are you proud of that?

Churchill was a pretty big admirer of fascism and a particular fan of Mussolini before the interests of the remains of the British empire were threatened. As a matter of fact he was a vile racist and horrid biggot. Does not stop him being lauded as a great British politician. Similar to your question regarding Sean Russell, are you proud of that?

Dyr

mariecxx wrote: »

We mainly learnt about the Romans and particularly WWI and WWII. I also attended secondary school for two years (as we go to secondary school at 11) and we didn't learn anything about the Irish Civil War etc. It's still the same now

The average modern brit wouldn't really know anything of irish history (I wonder why lol) and they tend to be fairly well inclined to the whole irish independence thing.

But there's still a few little-englanders out there that get really niggled by it. Which is nice.

the_syco

Bambi wrote: »

The average modern brit wouldn't really know anything of irish history

Why would they be taught much about Ireland? The history of France would be more relevant to them, tbh.

gormdubhgorm

I think at its worst the only wound that it will re-open is:

"Full Irish breakfast" (covers the whole plate) v "The Ulster Fry" (Covers the top right corner of the plate only)

The Full Irish Breakfast covers the whole plate has rashers,sausages, eggs, black and white pudding and mushrooms. All treated equally on the plate with no discrimination.

The Ulster Fry Wouldn't fill you, mostly baked beans in tomato sauce giving a somewhat orange hew.

Note: The Ulster Fry has tried to move into a smaller bowl on the the corner of the plate and considers itself the majority in that little bowl. It also terms itself as a country despite not being a sovereign state and a mere principality. Or loosely termed "constituent country" of the UK ( a bigger auld pot beyond the sink which is a bit worse for wear and likes the slogan "better together" as long as the constituent pots have English as thier first language and not German or French.)

Panthro

Sure no harm.
Any aul excuse for a shindig, (or Sinn Digg...hah!)..it'll make Lent a bit more interesting, we'll all be dying for a few sweets at that stage anyways.

Nodin

marmurr1916 wrote: »

I'm going to get an armed group together to invade your country and take it from you. I will plant colonists across your country and banish you and your kind to the least productive areas of the island. You will have to live under my rules, accept that I am superior to you and accept that your impoverishment is the result of your laziness and not my theft of your land and resources. During my rule, many of you will die as a result of your impoverishment and the desperate living conditions you live in. I will make some token efforts to help you, but I will allow over a million of you to starve to death. If you complain about this, it will simply confirm my view that you are too lazy and unintelligent to be considered fully human. If you resist in any way, I will use violent suppression, including mass killing if I deem it necessary. If you resist me using violence I will counter with greater violence, including killing non-combatants and destruction of civilian property. I will forever condemn you as a terrorist for using violent resistance against my rule. Happy Christmas!

The great thing about the above is that if you just leave out "island" and replace it with "area" or "territory" it's applicable and entirely valid for vast swathes of the world that were once ruled by the British.

And no, the French and Belgians and the rest doing it doesn't make it ok.

Dyr

the_syco wrote: »

Why would they be taught much about Ireland? The history of France would be more relevant to them, tbh.

I'm pretty sure the germans learn about what their forefathers got up to back in the day.

A part of their kingdom was lost through revolution, Do you need its importance explained? Of course the British never really considered Ireland to be a proper part of the the whole kingdomy set up, much like norn iron now.