Will 1916 commemorations open up old wounds between Ireland and the brits?

c_man

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I think most normal people will take some sort of interest in commemorating an important historical moment such as the 1916 Rising.

And even if they don't, it's not a big deal. The way some posters are going on about the commemoration plans/events, you'd swear it's like Britain and their poppy obsession, or the Yanks and their fetish of all things military. It's not lads.

It's the hundredth anniversary of a pretty important piece of history (even if you don't like it all that much) and most modern, comfortable with themselves and 'moved on' countries have no difficulties with recognising such events.

indioblack

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Will 1916 commemorations open up old wounds between Ireland and the brits at all do you think? dont you think some things best left in the past and just look forward to the future? will some issues surface again and bring about some animosity?

No. It was an important event in modern Irish history and should be commemorated.
Sadly, there were events before and after 1916 that are more likely to cause animosity.

hmmm

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I think most normal people will take some sort of interest in commemorating an important historical moment such as the 1916 Rising.

I would say "bobbysands81" that you wouldn't know much about "ordinary people" and 1916. We'll go to the commemorations, and we'll cheer on the legitimate army of this country in the parade, and that will be the end of it.

NachoBusiness

The level of self loathing in this country is astonishing but we shouldn't be surprised as that has always been something republicans have had to deal with. There has always been, for whatever reason, an element that is ashamed of who we are as a people. The IRB, IVF and the ICA were attacked by their kind. Spat on by them. They also informed on them to Dublin Castle regularly. They were a constant and persistent thorn in their side and their spawn appear to be in ours. An awful pity they didn't take the boat in the following years, ridding the country of their like.

My Grandfather (from Leitrim) had some involvement in the republican newspaper Irish Freedom which was founded by Seán MacDermott. Used to hear my Grandmother speaking about MacDermott all the time, how he even though he had Polio he would always still gave his all. He obviously played a huge role in the Rising, of which we of course should be proud of and continue to commemorate. It was hugely significant considering what it led to. The execution of the rebels made it all the more so.

"I feel happiness the like of which I have never experienced. I die that the Irish nation might live” - Seán MacDermott.

Some amazing footage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd-61UV_TLk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNqHF6SAt4A

Orangebrigade

MPFGLB wrote: »

I cannot believe some of the utter drivel posted here by some on Irish history and its significance (and i seriously doubt much learning went on at school given the posts)

Firstly you cannot judge the 1916 rising in the context of today nor understand its impact from some perceived viewpoint of it not having happened. It like saying all of France would be sophisticated today without the French Revolution... For one thing nothing happens in isolation ...Each significant moment in history projects countries forward and each has a cumulative effect on how countries and people advance. You could say the same about the US ...if they just hung around long enough they would have independence from Britain (unlike Scotland who do NOT have it- even though one poster said it would have happened for Ireland like in Scotland ???)..With that way of thinking no historical revolutions were necessary to get people where we are today ???

Next the 1916 Rising was not a failure...The signatories of the irish proclamation knew full well they would be defeated before they begun.. I mean how was a small band of men going to defeat the might of the British Army...They knew defeat was a certainty (and death) but decided it was worth sacrificing their lives to propel the country to revolution. a band of poets and scholars decide to die for Irish Independence . The ignorance of those who call it a failure leaves me speechless...Obviously watching match of the day makes for success in life !! In fact it was a success or at least their deaths were (as it succeed in what it set out to do)as indeed it did galvanize young men across the country into the fight for independence.

The cushdie viewpoint of those on here saying who can be bothered to pay it any commemoration do not deserve to title of Irishmen in comparison to Plunkett, McDonagh, Pearce, Connolly, Mac Diarmada, Ceannt, Clarke...whether you agreed with them or not there is no denying their bravery

As for Ireland (as one poster said) being a great and peaceful country up till 1916??? Home Rule had not been granted even though 100,000s of Irish fought (and died) in the British Army in the Great War ...The North was not going to allow home rule no more than it allowed 32 county Independence......People were still starving in the tenements in Dublin and other parts of the country ..My neighbor's father had the battering ram knock his and other house down because of refusing to pay extortionate rents to absentee Landlords not many years before 1916...Most Irish people still did not own their land , were still living in poverty and still emigrating in droves...(This did continue after the formation of the Free state but it takes years and generations for a country to recover centuries of oppression and those of the uprising only knew that things needed to change). Uprisings had been happening in Ireland for many years as the status quo was unfair and unsustainable...The rising that made the significant break through and set the seeds for the current republic was 1916
I for one will commemorate those brave man who believed (rightly or wrongly) that self determination was worth dying for

Nothing came of it except a state controlled by priests. If that is a success, then well done.

KlausFlouride

Orangebrigade wrote: »

Nothing came of it except a state controlled by priests. If that is a success, then well done.

Ireland, as a nation, has made many, many mistakes. But we made them because we had to make a country up as we went along, and it was never going to be smooth sailing. But in the long run, the fact we've had to go through this process of two steps forward, one back, will stand to us. In 50 years time, Ireland will be in better shape then NI, Wales, Scotland, because of these growing pains & taking responsibility for ourselves, even if it doesn't look like that now.

suicide_circus

I see the revisionist forelock tuggers are out in force.

MPFGLB

suicide_circus wrote: »

I see the revisionist forelock tuggers are out in force.

As Henry Rollins said: “Cynicism is nothing but intellectual cowardice.”
I see ill conceived and ill informed cynicism that washes all with the broad strokes of self loathing

wakka12

British people wont care anyway, most young english people don't even know there was an Irish uprising or basically anything what so ever about Irish history

One girl I spoke to from Birmingham thought the 1916 uprising was between the Isle of man and Britain:o

Dyr

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Using terms like "Ireland and 'the brits'" might in itself be opening wounds OP.

http://www.brits.co.uk/


Next caller please.

FTA69

Orangebrigade wrote: »

Nothing came of it except a state controlled by priests. If that is a
success, then well done.

Irish society was influenced and controlled by the Catholic Church long before partition or independence, it was the Brits who legally put them in a position of influence.

Dyr

FTA69 wrote: »

Orangebrigade wrote: »

Irish society was influenced and controlled by the Catholic Church long before partition or independence, it was the Brits who legally put them in a position of influence.

Not at all, Sure this had nothing to do with the assorted acts of emancipation. Clann na Gael were putting together a secular state, despite being rotten with arch catholic conservatives, when eamonn devalera ceded sovereignty to rome in the secret treaty of manynooth.

Fratton Fred

Bambi wrote: »

http://www.brits.co.uk/


Next caller please.

www.paddy.ie?

gormdubhgorm

It will not open old wounds. My brother married one of them (English Hun) and they went up to Belfast on a tour of murals and she brought me a 1916 T-shirt from the Sinn Fein shop.
I made sure to tell her that she now indirectly supported Sinn Fein.
So in answer to your question I think times have changed and we are not as narrow minded a little country as we used to be. Most people with a reasonable level of common sense are able to look at historical events objectively these days.
De Valera himself was a staunch Blackrock anglophile, until a couple of years before 1916 where he wanted to learn Irish to further his academic career and get his hole off his teacher.

smurgen

wakka12 wrote: »

British people wont care anyway, most young english people don't even know there was an Irish uprising or basically anything what so ever about Irish history

One girl I spoke to from Birmingham thought the 1916 uprising was between the Isle of man and Britain:o

There'll probably be a few snooty articles in the daily mail or the independent, that's about it.anyway who cares really.this was ireland uprising and the celebration of the beginning of the unravelling of old chains. Ireland has a much higher standard of living than the U.k.for that we should thank those that gave their lives so we could be free.

FTA69

Fratton Fred wrote: »

www.paddy.ie?

Racist. I always knew it Fred. Just cop on and admit you view us all as toothless simpletons who ride horses around council estates.

bobbysands81

hmmm wrote: »

I would say "bobbysands81" that you wouldn't know much about "ordinary people" and 1916. We'll go to the commemorations, and we'll cheer on the legitimate army of this country in the parade, and that will be the end of it.

Why do you think that?

Fratton Fred

FTA69 wrote: »

Racist. I always knew it Fred. Just cop on and admit you view us all as toothless simpletons who ride horses around council estates.

Aah come on, you lads are handy with a shovel as well :-)

FTA69

Bambi wrote: »

Not at all, Sure this had nothing to do with the assorted acts of emancipation. Clann na Gael were putting together a secular state, despite being rotten with arch catholic conservatives, when eamonn devalera ceded sovereignty to rome in the secret treaty of manynooth.

I'm not talking about the emancipation acts, rather the laws passed that handed education and health over to the hands of various religious orders. Likewise, Ireland was a conservative Catholic society whose social norms were dictated by the church and religion. Which was common throughout much of Europe.

Also Clan na Gael were an IRB organisation in America. I assume you're on about Cumann na nGaedheal who were as bad if not worse than Fianna Fáil for wanting a Catholic character; you're on about people who later merged with actual fascists in the Franco tradition by the way. They were no more secular than anyone else and were equally as bad as Fianna Fáil ever were.

Huntergonzo

Why exactly are we supposed to make such a big deal over the Easter Rising anyway?

c_man

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Aah come on, you lads are handy with a shovel as well :-)

That's what my master always says. But he won't let me near the shed with the fertiliser unaccompanied though :eek:

Fratton Fred

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Why exactly are we supposed to make such a big deal over the Easter Rising anyway?

Because it's one of, if not the pivotal moment in the creation of this state?

At a guess.

c_man

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Why exactly are we supposed to make such a big deal over the Easter Rising anyway?

Historical events are usually commemorated on, what society has agreed, are important anniversaries e.g. 50 and 100 years. Look at the recent Titanic stuff a few years back for example. Thanks for asking!

The_Valeyard

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Why exactly are we supposed to make such a big deal over the Easter Rising anyway?

Jesus rose from the dead, and he is pretty pissed off.

Dyr

Fratton Fred wrote: »

www.paddy.ie?

One of the worst irish whiskeys you can buy

You'd probably like it.

The_Valeyard

Bambi wrote: »

One of the worst irish whiskeys you can buy

You'd probably like it.

To my knowledge it's only 3 years distilled, which just barely makes it whiskey. Was in the Jameson tour in Cork before, was pretty cool and showed us the colour change in whiskey over the years, paddy been very clearish, while older whiskey were much darker and lot of loss in barrels over time. Fascinating stuff.

Huntergonzo

c_man wrote: »

Historical events are usually commemorated on, what society has agreed, are important anniversaries e.g. 50 and 100 years. Look at the recent Titanic stuff a few years back for example. Thanks for asking!

As sure look it each to their own I suppose, but celebrating political events and things dealing with patriotism (such as the Easter Rising, the 4th of July in America, or even worse the 12th of July up north) have never really appealed to me.

I am interested in history though, ancient and recent and certainly for better or worse politics has played a big part in human history, I acknowledge that.

Huntergonzo

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Jesus rose from the dead, and he is pretty pissed off.

Ha, is that yer man what could both walk on water and turn it into wine, heard he's a blast at parties!

The Backwards Man

The Christmas edition of 'I'm More Irish Than You' is traditionally a fervent one, must be the time when many are in closer proximity to barstools I suppose.

As a dyed in the wool Donegal man, 1916 means very little to me, Dublin or Westminster, the Queen or the Pope, they're all much the same to us, far away and don't give a fiddler's fcuk.

Dyr

FTA69 wrote: »

I'm not talking about the emancipation acts, rather the laws passed that handed education and health over to the hands of various religious orders. Likewise, Ireland was a conservative Catholic society whose social norms were dictated by the church and religion. Which was common throughout much of Europe.

Also Clan na Gael were an IRB organisation in America. I assume you're on about Cumann na nGaedheal who were as bad if not worse than Fianna Fáil for wanting a Catholic character; you're on about people who later merged with actual fascists in the Franco tradition by the way. They were no more secular than anyone else and were equally as bad as Fianna Fáil ever were.

I was taking the piss, although mixing Clan na Gael up with Cumann na gael is fairly unforgivable, I blame it on the buke on the fenian dynmaite campaigns I've been reading (war in the shadows)

Spose it could be worse could have mixed it up with conradh na gael