Inappropriate work present help??

Wabbit Ears

The OP should hand back the present to the boss in private ( as in not overheard by others) In a safe location where others are around so its cant escalate and simply say the present made you uncomfortable and its not to happen again. Be firm and polite and don't get into a discussion about it, just walk away.

This is a life skill, Nipping issues in the bud quietly and effectively. Its important to be able to manage peoples expectations, Including people higher up the work ladder, on where your personal boundaries are.

Mrs OBumble

mal1 wrote: »

I have never posted on this forum but it's disappointing to read the above quote, suggesting that a young girl starting off her working life should be a servile employee when confronted with such inappropriate behaviour. To suggest that there should be a subculture at work, counter to social norms, that an employee should be submissive in the face of a humiliation and go get another job. It's wrong.

Where on earth do you get the idea that I'm saying that the young woman (hint: she's well over 16) should be servile?

As to the idea that this type of behaviour is counter to social norms - are you having a laugh? There are plenty of people out there who would view this type of behaviour as OK. It sounds like at least some of the OP's colleagues do: if the boss has rung me looking for an estimate of her size, he would have been given a vastly wrong estimate, and she got a friendly warning about his plans.

The choices open to her are pretty stark:

1 Suck it up. (really bad idea, he'll get worse)

2 Make him see that his behaviour needs to change. (Not likely to succeed, he's the company owner)

3 Formal complaint (Has all sorts of stress and consequences involved, and she's unlikely to see the cash even if some is awarded to her)

4 Get a job somewhere else.


Can you see any other options?

_Brian

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The choices open to her are pretty stark:

1 Suck it up. (really bad idea, he'll get worse)

2 Make him see that his behaviour needs to change. (Not likely to succeed, he's the company owner)

3 Formal complaint (Has all sorts of stress and consequences involved, and she's unlikely to see the cash even if some is awarded to her)

4 Get a job somewhere else.


Can you see any other options?

Its a pity but these are the hard cold facts...
When someone owns and manages a small company like this, the reality of fair play and correct procedure often don't exist.

mal1

I can say no more other then I totally disagree. We obviously have different perspectives. For a man in his mid thirties (i.e. me), giving an unfamiliar 19 year old girl (which I consider young) such a present is against what I would call a social norm. Regardless if it's in work or outside, big company or small.

Managing a small company is not an excuse to be a complete and utter yob.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

constructive dismissal only requires one serious incident. Is giving a teenage employee lingerie a serious incident. I think we all know the answer to that.

DeltaWhite

I hate these type of threads. Nice to see sleazy men (or sometimes women) are still going strong in the employment world! OP on one hand I don't see what he did as a massive deal, but then again I went through 6 years of way worse than that in my last job, so I'm pretty thick skinned by now. It's a big deal to you, so that's all that matters. I suggest giving the gift back to him like others have advised and see how you get on. I worked for a boss before who was HR aswell, so any complaints went to him. I told him I didn't want to be sexually harassed anymore and I was told "well that's just lad's banter" and basically told to deal with it or the door was available for me to leave. Wish you best of luck with it OP. Not a nice way to feel!

Ursus Horribilis

Plus, if the OP is just starting out in her career, she might need to have this creep as a reference if she finds a job elsewhere

_Kaiser_

OP, just hand it back to him and explain that it was inappropriate and not to happen again.. hopefully that's the end of it.

But I agree with the poster above that suggested this might just be another "joke" gone wrong rather than anything sinister.. if he was being sleazy he would have given it to her privately or be making other advances, rather than in full view of the rest of the staff. Sounds to me like he's more of a dope than a creep TBH - BUT that's not to say it's acceptable regardless.

In any case the OP should deal with this decisively and as someone else also said, it's an important skill to learn in any case.

_Brian

Aiyana Quaint Driftwood wrote: »

constructive dismissal only requires one serious incident. Is giving a teenage employee lingerie a serious incident. I think we all know the answer to that.

For a constructive dismissal case to be taken OP would need to make a formal complaint and follow through on the full internal appeals systems as laid down by the company (before leaving her job), and by the company I mean by the owner, whom she wold be making the complaint against... This would be no easy route to start down..

People seem to think they can get in a huff about something, jack in their jobs and then make a constructive dismissal claim, it doesn't remotely work like that.. not close.

_Kaiser_

_Brian wrote: »

For a constructive dismissal case to be taken OP would need to make a formal complaint and follow through on the full internal appeals systems as laid down by the company (before leaving her job), and by the company I mean by the owner, whom she wold be making the complaint against... This would be no easy route to start down..

People seem to think they can get in a huff about something, jack in their jobs and then make a constructive dismissal claim, it doesn't remotely work like that.. not close.

+1

I also don't think the OP (or indeed people in this thread) need to be considering the "nuclear" option just yet.

Her boss did a very dumb thing (whether it was with a more sinister intent remains to be seen) and put her in an uncomfortable position as a result. This wasn't acceptable on his part, but she hasn't (as far as we know) spoken to him about it, or returned his "gift" so he may (in his stupidity) think she was fine with it - hey everyone laughed right?

Bottom line, she needs to talk to him directly, tell him it wasn't on, and isn't to happen again.

I'd be fairly confident that will resolve it UNLESS he did have ulterior motives in which case, realistically, leaving is probably her best bet under the circumstances.

Diamond Doll

It's certainly sleazy, it's certainly inappropriate. Is it worth losing your job over? Only you know that.

There isn't anyone higher than him that you can go to, so if I were you I'd probably just minimise contact with him and keep my eye out for a new job.

While he was absolutely wrong to do what he did, I can't see how it would benefit you in any way to raise it with him or to take any further action.

LegacyUser

Thanks for all of your replys im still really confused on what to do. He is very controlling over staff and its his way or no way. I'd be worried if i did give them back that he would either take the p*ss out of me or bring me into the office for an uncomfortable chat. He would also defanitley tell other members of staff and I would be labelled as someone who cant take a joke.

Just to add, today there was a further incident. A customer was chatting about xmas, woman mid 50's and he shouted over (the boss) Well I wonder will you get anything like what I got Sarah* laughing. I said nothing and stayed where I was and the customer enquired what I had got. I again, said nothing and then he said I hear she's already worn them! and again i said nothing just continued what I was doing..another member of staff joined in saying ooh same haha laughing thinking it was all just banter..maybe it was but I didntfind it funny. I'm humiliated enough by the situation nevermind him telling customers

Atlantic Dawn

I'd leave and make it known in my notice letter that he and his gift was the reason I was going. No place in the workplace for people like this and the sooner he is gone the better. Would probably not be a sackable offence in the company so he would stay working there and it would be awkward for the rest of your time there if you were to stay.

If he's married I would send the gift to his home address and say you don't want them.

BabySlam

Race into his office the next few times he has visitors, saying "I must show you what X gave me for Xmas before you go" and watch his face.

CruelCoin

Aiyana Quaint Driftwood wrote: »

constructive dismissal only requires one serious incident. Is giving a teenage employee lingerie a serious incident. I think we all know the answer to that.

I disagree with giving of the lingerie, terrible thing to do.

But constructive dismissal? Methinks you do not know what that means.

looksee

My suggestion would be to just ignore the whole thing, don't respond at all. Something a bit similar happened to me (though not as deliberate and aggressive, and I am not 19!) I just left the gift on the table in the room where we were. Someone helpfully gave it to me and I just said 'oh yes, thanks' with no expression and casually threw it in the bin.

It is fairly obvious that the boss's aim was to embarrass you, and enjoy your embarrassment, so don't be embarrassed or annoyed enough to respond at all. Just let the whole subject die. He is a creep who made a fool of himself by doing what he did, if your colleagues were more inclined to laugh than to empathise with you then that reflects on them not you. Try to treat him exactly how you did previously, try not to look bothered, just be professional.

If he mentions it again, blank him, look vague and mildly puzzled and talk about something else.

Yes, you are perfectly entitled to take offense, he was offensive. Yes you could think in terms of reporting him - if there was anyone to report him to, but there isn't. Yes you can talk about harassment, but more important is to learn when to fight a battle, and when to just deal with it.

I know this is not a 'current thinking' pc solution but don't give yourself any more hassle than you have to.
And move on as soon as you reasonably can without putting yourself at a disadvantage.

esforum

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone who wants to write this off as just a joke hasn't the faintest idea what it feels like to be a young person in a small workplace who finds themselves (particularly herself) on the receiving end of the wrong kind of attention from an older boss.

Yes, we were all born middle aged!

OP, It was a joke, a bad joke, an innapropriate joke but still a joke. Its secret santa, its not an official work event and making an issue of it in a small company will result in secret santa becoming a thing of the past and thats something you being new, dont want to be blamed for.

Where the other staff really laughing along or were they just covering with fake laughs? The mood of the room is usually a good indicator of how to proceed. If the entire office genuinely thought it was funny there may be a reason for it, are you the butt of some insider joke that you are not aware of?

Talk to the person, tell them while you realise it was a secret santa you felt uncomfortable recieving lingerie. If it was a genuine joke and he had no lecherous intent, your talk will end with an apology by a red faced man.

elathecoder

Don't companies get sued for something like that?

esforum

elathecoder wrote: »

Don't companies get sued for something like that?

For unsanctioned events organised between staff on their own initiative? Not really not unless having recieved a complaint they still failed to act.

esforum

esforum wrote: »

Yes, we were all born middle aged!

It's not about age, it's about maturity - something the OP's boss seems to lack.

esforum wrote: »

making an issue of it in a small company will result in secret santa becoming a thing of the past and thats something you being new, dont want to be blamed for.

That's just telling the OP to accept the abuse, or else people will say it's her fault, so zero marks for that advice. That's the kind of crap women have had to put up with in workplaces for a long time, and it's the kind of crap good workplaces have worked hard to eliminate.

Titanucd

You're overthinking this. It was a joke that you didn't find funny. But dwelling on it and making a big deal of it will just cause you more hurt. People do things they think are funny all the time and end up offending people. How does he usually act around you? Does he make you feel uncomfortable in general? If he generally treats you with respect then put it down to bad taste. If he makes you feel uncomfortable more often than not then throw the book at him.

Atlantic Dawn

Titanucd wrote: »

You're overthinking this. It was a joke that you didn't find funny. But dwelling on it and making a big deal of it will just cause you more hurt. People do things they think are funny all the time and end up offending people. How does he usually act around you? Does he make you feel uncomfortable in general? If he generally treats you with respect then put it down to bad taste. If he makes you feel uncomfortable more often than not then throw the book at him.

An odd joke where he for some reason got her actual measurements for the outfit, not some random picked off the shelf outfit :rolleyes:

Mrs OBumble

mal1 wrote: »

I can say no more other then I totally disagree. We obviously have different perspectives. For a man in his mid thirties (i.e. me), giving an unfamiliar 19 year old girl (which I consider young) such a present is against what I would call a social norm. Regardless if it's in work or outside, big company or small.

Managing a small company is not an excuse to be a complete and utter yob.

We don't disagree as much as you think.

I also think it's totally inappropriate - both from the boss, and from the colleagues who colluded.

But the reality is that this sort of **** happens, whether it should or shouldn't. And that some people think it's OK.

jimd2

Have you told your parents / siblings / boyfriend?

If you have a particularly thick skinned dad tell him and let him call said (bullyboy) boss and inform him in no uncertain terms that this in inappropriate behaviour, that he expects an apology to be made to his daughter. On top of that, that he and other members of family / friends / locals will be watching his behaviour and that any indirect bullying of the OP will be well broadcast in the wider community.

I am saying this as bullyboy boss is master of his little internal kingdom and any approach from the OP internally will be easily dealt with as he is probably well experienced at getting the upper hand in his own company.

Bring the game to outside the office, see how he handles it then and watch him squirm.

john.han

esforum wrote: »

For unsanctioned events organised between staff on their own initiative? Not really not unless having recieved a complaint they still failed to act.

That's completely inaccurate, these "unsanctioned events organised between staff" are essentially an extension of the workplace, especially where the boss/owner is involved and participates, in this scenario as the complaints procedure would be organised/controlled by the accused person there isn't really a proper procedure available to the staff member and so the appropriate employment rights authority can be contacted and the company can absolutely be sued.

kidneyfan

Talk to a solicitor. You'll get 30 grand.

jimd2

Titanucd wrote: »

You're overthinking this. It was a joke that you didn't find funny. But dwelling on it and making a big deal of it will just cause you more hurt. People do things they think are funny all the time and end up offending people. How does he usually act around you? Does he make you feel uncomfortable in general? If he generally treats you with respect then put it down to bad taste. If he makes you feel uncomfortable more often than not then throw the book at him.

I take it that you haven't read the thread fully and missed the bit where said bullyboy boss brought it up again with a customer and was making suggestions regarding the OP wearing said lingerie.

frostyjacks

Total overreaction. Everyone else saw the funny side.

Armchair Andy

Just got a text saying check out post nr. 91 but mobile site doesn't number the posts, anyone help?

Ursus Horribilis

I think you're in the wrong thread Andy. You're post No 60.