Inappropriate work present help??

Stheno

presentgonewrong wrote: »

Thanks for all of your replys im still really confused on what to do. He is very controlling over staff and its his way or no way. I'd be worried if i did give them back that he would either take the p*ss out of me or bring me into the office for an uncomfortable chat. He would also defanitley tell other members of staff and I would be labelled as someone who cant take a joke.

Just to add, today there was a further incident. A customer was chatting about xmas, woman mid 50's and he shouted over (the boss) Well I wonder will you get anything like what I got Sarah* laughing. I said nothing and stayed where I was and the customer enquired what I had got. I again, said nothing and then he said I hear she's already worn them! and again i said nothing just continued what I was doing..another member of staff joined in saying ooh same haha laughing thinking it was all just banter..maybe it was but I didntfind it funny. I'm humiliated enough by the situation nevermind him telling customers

This is completely inappropriate, and could now be construed as two seperate instances of sexual harassment at the least.

Do you feel comfortable talking to your boss and saying you are not happy?
Or do you feel you could talk to one of your parents about this?
Is the shop local to where you live?

BreadnBuddha

You need to assert yourself with this gob****e.

Cut the 'gift' into pieces, put it on his desk and tell him you didn't want to embarass him by pointing out that you're practically still a child (sorry, but use it to make your point) in front of everyone, so you laughed along, but that the joke wasn't funny in the first place.

Sexual harassment is what it is and he needs to know you are taking this crap from him very seriously. Shame him. I don't think you have any other option.

He deserves a good .......

Ursus Horribilis

I'd be inclined to agree with the person above me. Give it back to him, preferably in front of other people, and tell him that you weren't expecting an inappropriate gift like that from your boss for Secret Santa. Tell him to wrap it up and give it to his wife!

kidneyfan

Absolutely don't do that. write it all down and see a lawyer. This toerag will give you the deposit on your house.

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

You need to assert yourself with this gob****e.

Cut the 'gift' into pieces, put it on his desk and tell him you didn't want to embarass him by pointing out that you're practically still a child (sorry, but use it to make your point) in front of everyone, so you laughed along, but that the joke wasn't funny in the first place.

Sexual harassment is what it is and he needs to know you are taking this crap from him very seriously. Shame him. I don't think you have any other option.

He deserves a good .......

kidneyfan

frostyjacks wrote: »

Total overreaction. Everyone else saw the funny side.

Talk to a lawyer. It is free money. Who knows you might get more than 30K if he needs to keep it secret from the father in law.

Ursus Horribilis

kidneyfan wrote: »

Absolutely don't do that. write it all down and see a lawyer. This toerag will give you the deposit on your house.

Fine but she'll need to get another job. She could go nuclear on the toerag but what's she going to do in the meantime. If she's working there a while she'll need a reference, no?

BreadnBuddha

kidneyfan wrote: »

Absolutely don't do that. write it all down and see a lawyer. This toerag will give you the deposit on your house.

No, he won't.

Ambulance chasing doesn't fix this problem.

Cut him down to size with his own shame. I don't wish to offend anyone, but this guy is probably the sort of fool whos sense of normalcy is screwed up from too much internet porn. 'Practically a child' is a phrase that should flip that switch if he's not an utter letch.

_Brian

I think his sexist jokes will continue until OP calls a halt to it. He's on a run focusing his "humour" on OP.

OP it's time to either act or let this go.

Mrs OBumble

kidneyfan wrote: »

Talk to a lawyer. It is free money. Who knows you might get more than 30K if he needs to keep it secret from the father in law.

If he's got 30k to give. That's a big "if" for many small businesses.

And if the OP's family is powerful enough in the community that the boss gives a s*it. The fact that the colleagues laughed, and continue to laugh, makes me wonder about that.

kidneyfan

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If he's got 30k to give. That's a big "if" for many small businesses.

And if the OP's family is powerful enough in the community that the boss gives a s*it. The fact that the colleagues laughed, and continue to laugh, makes me wonder about that.

I meant his own father in law not the OPs. OP go to a lawyer.

Ursus Horribilis

I hate to go down the road of victim blaming here but if the OP lives in a small community and word gets out that she's suing this guy, she might find it hard to get another job. She would be better off starting to look for another job and getting out of there. At the end of the day she's only a junior member of staff and can be really replaced.

seamus

mal1 wrote: »

I can say no more other then I totally disagree. We obviously have different perspectives. For a man in his mid thirties (i.e. me), giving an unfamiliar 19 year old girl (which I consider young) such a present is against what I would call a social norm. Regardless if it's in work or outside, big company or small.

Managing a small company is not an excuse to be a complete and utter yob.

I'm not sure anyone disagrees with this point. It just doesn't really address what can realistically be done about it.

BabySlam wrote: »

Race into his office the next few times he has visitors, saying "I must show you what X gave me for Xmas before you go" and watch his face.

He's the kind of guy who would in fact love this kind of "banter". The fact that he wasn't afraid to hand it over in front of the rest of staff and tells customers about says to me that he would have no issue with talking about it otherwise.

jimd2 wrote: »

If you have a particularly thick skinned dad tell him and let him call said (bullyboy) boss and inform him in no uncertain terms that this in inappropriate behaviour, that he expects an apology to be made to his daughter. On top of that, that he and other members of family / friends / locals will be watching his behaviour and that any indirect bullying of the OP will be well broadcast in the wider community.

She's 19, not 14. Calling her Daddy to sort it out, aside from being ridiculous, will probably result in her being sacked, or at the very least will call a halt to any chance of developing in that workplace.

In reality this guy is the kind of guy who probably goes around all day acting like a stereotype from the fifties, and his idea of "funny" always involves being shocking or sleazy. Some people can do this and be funny, when they're just indiscriminately dirty rather than being specific. Most people who try to a "funny dirtbird" end up just coming across as sleazy by making jokes about the attractive young thing in the office.

As they say. "Never attribute to malice, that which is adequately explained by incompetence". The guy likely isn't intentionally being a dick, he's just a moron.

This is a cultural thing in that office - either the other staff actually find him funny, or they're willing to put up with it.

Because the office is small and the source of the issue is the boss, there are basically no options that won't result in an escalation.

Contact a solicitor and she'll either be fired or treated like crap. 6 years later when the case finally does go to court, her career will either be in tatters or she'll have moved on and have no interest in it.

There are no grounds for constructive dismissal, yet. She can hang around and gather a whole pile more evidence and take a case later on, but that's a year or more of dealing with his crap.

She can brush it off - the theme of the thing was jokey presents, he thought it was funny, she didn't. If he brings it up, don't respond, don't even smile awkwardly, just look at him blankly or don't even look at him. He'll probably consider this hostility and things will become difficult.

She can bring it up directly with him - privately tell him that she found it very offensive and she doesn't want to hear about it. Dealing with issues directly like this is actually a really useful skill to learn for the workplace, but understandable that someone at 19 doesn't have the self-confidence to deal with it. And it may still result in the boss becoming cold and hostile. He'll probably tell her that she's being ridiculous and needs to get over it.

All painful options that in the end will likely yield little except for months of stress and her name possibly being tarnished locally.

Better off finding somewhere else to work and don't mention the boss being a c*nt until you're well and truly settled in another job.

con___manx1

If I was your father or brother op I would be going in too your work place and having a serious word with your boss. He obviously has a screw loose.
Im guessing he is a big fat ugly bald guy with a giant ego. Look at me I'm the boss I can do what I want. Dopey bastard doesn't no a thing about how to treat women.

Diziet

OP, this is horrible and illegal. Make some notes, takes a photo of the 'gift' and give it back, asking your boss to please not embarrass you. This is key - it clearly becomes harassment if you have asked him to stop and he did not.

Make a note of every such incident - this is important. Note date, time, what happened, and who was there.

You are young, you don't have a career yet to be 'in tatters'. You will find something else; people don't generally approve of sleazy behaviour like this. You can get a reference from another one of your colleagues. It is a very unpleasant thing to happen but it does happen and you need to trust your gut feelings of finding it inappropriate and being angry about it. In any case, you don't want to be working for such a gob****e. And the situation won't get better.

If you were my daughter, I would encourage you to go to a solicitor and discuss. This is not ambulance chasing, this is stopping a sleaze operating unchecked, and not being a victim.

Wabbit Ears

Actually, The 'go fcuking mental' publically about it is a pretty good option. Seriously, If I did that to any girl in my office a proper yelling is the least I'd expect.

1eg0a3xv7b82of

CruelCoin wrote: »

I disagree with giving of the lingerie, terrible thing to do.

But constructive dismissal? Methinks you do not know what that means.

i Think its you and another few posters here who do not know what it means.
As I said one serious incident is all that is required to make her case for constructive dismissal. She has that with witnesses and a photo was even taken.
she does NOT have to interact with any internal complaint procedure as her complaint is against her manager who is also the owner and there is no HR department.
There is a thing called fair procedure, you and a few others should read up about it.

I dont blame you for your error, your like alot of posters on boards, using the internet or the fact you might have studied the very basics of Something in College to come on here and give advice. Stop it.:pac:

Mrs OBumble

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

Actually, The 'go fcuking mental' publically about it is a pretty good option. Seriously, If I did that to any girl in my office a proper yelling is the least I'd expect.

Depending on where the OP is from (and DON'T tell us, OP), that may or may not help.

Remember the Kerry farmer who had 50 locals supporting him after being convicted of rape (http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/a-town-torn-1.793083)? That kind of mentality isn't as long-gone as some would like to think.

Puibo

If you are just going to sit at work, do nothing and take his abuse why did you even ask for advice?

frostyjacks

The fact that he got it in her correct size shows it was a bone fide present. If he just wanted to embarrass her he would have picked any old size.

It sounds like a clumsy attempt at humour or flirting; far removed from sexual harassment. To try and make it out to be harassment actually devalues what that really is.

Diziet

frostyjacks wrote: »

The fact that he got it in her correct size shows it was a bone fide present. If he just wanted to embarrass her he would have picked any old size.

It sounds like a clumsy attempt at humour or flirting; far removed from sexual harassment. To try and make it out to be harassment actually devalues what that really is.

Not far removed at all - what do you think sexual harassment is?

frostyjacks

Diziet wrote: »

Not far removed at all - what do you think sexual harassment is?

As per Wikipedia: "Sexual harassment is bullying or coercion of a sexual nature, or the unwelcome or inappropriate promise of rewards in exchange for sexual favors."

I don't see how a silly secret Santa gift fits these criterion.

BreadnBuddha

frostyjacks wrote: »

As per Wikipedia: "Sexual harassment is bullying or coercion of a sexual nature, or the unwelcome or inappropriate promise of rewards in exchange for sexual favors."

I don't see how a silly secret Santa gift fits these criterion.

It's a 19 year old young woman being gifted lingerie, in her size, by her older male employer. He might be playing it out as a joke, and maybe he genuinely believes that's all he's doing, but it's sexual in nature and that's crossing a big line indeed.

That's not silly. That's stupid on every level.

Don't make excuses for it. It's not okay and never should be.

jamfer

I found myself being excluded, worked against and unduly scrutinised by a co-worker and manager in my last role. I could hear my co-worker daily making scornful comments to my manager and colleagues on the phone, this person never once brought their concerns to my attention. I might add that my work was exemplary, just done in a different manner, our customer had added significant contracts on the back of the processes, deliveries and reporting structures I put in place. I requested a meeting with my manager and reminded him of his duties twords me. I said I was entitled to respect as an individual, if there were concerns at my work, they needed to be raised with me. I said no more. For the remainder of my time there I had a professional relationship with the 2 individuals.

You may not have company policies, but there is law detailing what the employer employee relationship should be. There are descriptions of what environment you are entitled to and what your employers duty of care should be.

What has been done to you is entirely unacceptable. You are entirely without blame here. This is as severe a test of your resilience and grace as you will get. It will take great strength and support to resolve.

Personally I would request a meeting with the boss, I would bring a parent or older sibling along and I would then state what you as an employee are entitled to from an employer. Respect, dignity and a safe working environment.

esforum

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not about age, it's about maturity - something the OP's boss seems to lack.




That's just telling the OP to accept the abuse, or else people will say it's her fault, so zero marks for that advice. That's the kind of crap women have had to put up with in workplaces for a long time, and it's the kind of crap good workplaces have worked hard to eliminate.

First off, you specifically stated age, not maturity.

Second, theres nothing more annyong than someone being selective in quotes just so they can make a false arguement. My last paragraph clearly suggested a course of action to resolve the situation and it was not "suck it up"

Oh and by the way, women are every bit as capable of passing comments, etc at male colleagues. Dont make it into a gemder war

Arbiter of Good Taste

frostyjacks wrote: »

The fact that he got it in her correct size shows it was a bone fide present. If he just wanted to embarrass her he would have picked any old size.

It sounds like a clumsy attempt at humour or flirting; far removed from sexual harassment. To try and make it out to be harassment actually devalues what that really is.

It's this kind of disgusting attitude that makes scumbags think they can get away with that sort of behaviour.

OP, it's a clear case of harassment. It's also bullying. The boss specifically targeted someone he knew would not stand up to him. If you were 15 years older you probably would have given him a piece of your mind.

I'm not sure advising to sue is the best idea. A case like this would be quite stressful for you, for probably very little compensation.

Honestly I would find a new job and after you have left, call his wife and "joke" about the "hilarious" gift you got from her husband

Mrs OBumble

frostyjacks wrote: »

As per Wikipedia: "Sexual harassment is bullying or coercion of a sexual nature, or the unwelcome or inappropriate promise of rewards in exchange for sexual favors."

I don't see how a silly secret Santa gift fits these criterion.

I think that Citizen's Information has a better definition:

Sexual harassment is any form of “unwanted verbal, non-verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature”. In both cases it is defined as conduct which “has the purpose or effect of violating a person’s dignity and creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for the person”

I do not see this as anything other than harassment.

But the fact that you do simply re-inforces my early comment that society is not at all of the same mind over such things.

Sky King

OP I strongly agree with the above poster who told you that going to a solicitor with a view to taking your boss to the cleaners was a bad idea. They are right. Regardless of whether your are within your rights to sue this guy, you could very easily negatively affect your future career prospects by getting a reputation as the girl who sued her boss. That's unfortunate, but it's a fact.

Here are my two cents.

1) The boss's behavior was totally and utterly inappropriate. Let there be no doubt about that. Most people here I think are in agreement.

2) Based on your follow up post the behavior is probably going to continue unless you address it.

I strongly suggest that you do something about this or it will continue.

I wouldn't go the 'nuclear option' and chop up the lingerie and hand it to him or whatever daftness was suggested above. I wouldn't quit the job- I also wouldn't go to a journalist or anything like that. I wouldn't even go to a solicitor.... yet.

You can handle this in a much more low-key fashion and still keep your job. If his bullsh!t continues despite your taking action, then you can up the ante. But remember you have to work for this guy and you (probably I am guessing) want to keep your job.

Here are my suggestions.

1) Keep a careful and detailed record of anything he does that makes you uncomfortable.
2) You can ask to see him and politely tell him that his behavior is making you uncomfortable, and tell him his gift was unwanted and hand it back to him intact..

Now, this guy seems to be a bully and an asshole so he will almost definitely tell you to relax and loosen up a bit and say it was just a joke and what are you so worried about etc.

Just say to him 'Yes boss - I know it was a joke but I don't find jokes like that funny and it made me very uncomfortable so I would appreciate it if you didn't do it again'

Again he'll shrug it off and tell you to lighten up.

When you go back to your desk send him a follow up email thanking him for the meeting and put a read receipt on it.

If he is thick enough not to get the message and is STILL sleazing around the place, you can mail him again looking for another meeting. All these emails are building and strengthening your evidence in the case of litigation.

If he is an employer he will be wise to that and see what you are doing and if he has any small degree of cop on at all he'll stop.

kidneyfan

OP it isn't your job to help your boss mature. Go to a solicitor.
Two years salary in one lump sum. You'll get another job.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/girl-wins-30-000-in-sexual-harassment-case-against-retailer-1.1499198
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/woman-to-follow-up-sexual-harassment-victory-with-high-court-action-1.1502901

Tiddlypeeps

kidneyfan wrote: »

OP it isn't your job to help your boss mature. Go to a solicitor.
Two years salary in one lump sum. You'll get another job.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/girl-wins-30-000-in-sexual-harassment-case-against-retailer-1.1499198
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/woman-to-follow-up-sexual-harassment-victory-with-high-court-action-1.1502901

Are those not both the same case?

Either way they are both very similar and as crap as the OP's situation is I don't think it's quite the same level of sexual harassment as a coworker trying to force someones legs apart at a work party.

The tribunal heard evidence that the behaviour of Mr B towards Ms A “descended into extreme inappropriateness, starting with explicit remarks involving the mechanics of sexual intercourse, and questioning the complainant as to whether she had intercourse with a specific named man, followed by attempts to force the complainant’s legs apart while pushing his body on to her.” Mr B did this twice.

TimeToShine

TBH it sounds to me like he would have gotten lingerie for any of the women had he drawn them in the secret santa. The fact he was able to call someone to ask about your size attests to this. There is clearly a workplace "culture" here that you are not cut out for, which is probably a good thing. Move on and stop making this personal. The age old adage "Never attribute to malice that which can adequately explained by ignorance" applies here.