NASA Insight Mars Mission delayed

_Tombstone_

Delayed for over 2 years:eek: due to unfavorable geometry between Earth-Mars (How the flip do they work out that?)

A leak in a French seismometer is to blame. This Science has never been done by any other probe, it was meant to check the structure of the Martian interior by listening to how marsquakes ring through the planet. The mission was designed to determine the size, composition and state of the planet's core, mantle and crust.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/nasa-suspends-next-mission-to-mars/


Speaking of Quakes, we may have found a new way to detect them here on Earth by looking for electromagnetic anomalies in the ground and atmosphere that occur minutes to days before an earthquake.

http://news.sciencemag.org/earth/2015/12/can-electric-signals-earth-s-atmosphere-predict-earthquakes

Capt'n Midnight

_Tombstone_ wrote: »

Delayed for over 2 years:eek: due to unfavorable geometry between Earth-Mars (How the flip do they work out that?)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohmann_transfer_orbit

It's a low energy transfer orbit. The alternative is having to launch a lot more fuel which translates into a much bigger rocket, and they ain't cheap.

All you do is put the space craft into a very elongated elliptical and hope Mars will be there when the craft arrives at the "apex". But that only happens every two years or son.


Cassini took a longer route to save fuel. In order to go to Saturn it got gravity assists at Venus twice and at Earth and Jupiter en route.
But it took a lot longer.

http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/Cassini-Huygens/The_mission

_Tombstone_

Thanks Cap!

hytrogen

It would be better if they looked into an orbiting space station / orbital support module before embarking on descending to the surface (A thought NOT inspired by interstellar ) while utilizing the ISS as a refuelling booster supply station for the journey towards the red planet. More economic research can be made by setting up the two stations in propulsion technology.

Capt'n Midnight

hytrogen wrote: »

It would be better if they looked into an orbiting space station / orbital support module before embarking on descending to the surface (A thought NOT inspired by interstellar ) while utilizing the ISS as a refuelling booster supply station for the journey towards the red planet. More economic research can be made by setting up the two stations in propulsion technology.

which brings up another problem with the ISS

It should be in an equatorial orbit. It's not. For political reasons.

So takes extra fuel to get there, and extra fuel to leave it to go onwards. Shuttle took a major payload hit getting there. IIRC it uses seven tonnes of fuel a year. And if you were on the ISS would you be happy with oodles of rocket fuel nearby. For long term storage it might have to be hyperglolics which tend to be little toxic.

Not sure of the best place for refuelling station but somewhere like Legrange or GEO as it takes about half the energy in the fuel to get from LEO to GEO. So forget the ISS and use Hall effect or other proven electric rockets to carry the fuel there over months. If you could easily extract volatiles from the moon then that could prove interesting.

The choices for fuel are interesting too. The hypergolics are nasty but they are quite energetic, storable and very reliable. Cryogenics have more energy but are tricky to store so unless you have super insulation then not worth the effort. As always the bible is IGNITION! An Informal History of. Liquid Rocket Propellants by John D. Clark.

The Holy Grail would be volatiles on one of Mars' moons.

hytrogen

True and equally I don't think anyone likes to live near a fuel station in general, but it could be considered then to construct a second orbiting fuelling station for inter planetary missions once asteroid mining takes off

Capt'n Midnight

hytrogen wrote: »

True and equally I don't think anyone likes to live near a fuel station in general, but it could be considered then to construct a second orbiting fuelling station for inter planetary missions once asteroid mining takes off

But don't put it in LEO as you'll waste half the fuel just getting to GEO.
And if you have to put it in LEO then equatorial orbit is the lowest energy one.

There was talk of carrying water when the shuttle or other rockets had spare payload capacity. It takes less tankage and solar power could convert it to Hydrogen and Oxygen.
Then again people proposing that didn't think to check on real rocket stoichiometry. Rockets tend to run fuel rich because hydrogen is lighter than oxygen. (Hydrocarbons / Hydrazine are lighter than Nitrogen Oxides too)

JupiterKid

Back on topic...

It's pretty disappointing to hear of this delay/setback to Insight, but better to be safe than sorry. I just hope that the delay is only 2 years.

_Tombstone_

_Tombstone_ wrote: »

Speaking of Quakes, we may have found a new way to detect them here on Earth by looking for electromagnetic anomalies in the ground and atmosphere that occur minutes to days before an earthquake.

http://news.sciencemag.org/earth/2015/12/can-electric-signals-earth-s-atmosphere-predict-earthquakes

'MyShake' App Turns Your Smartphone into Earthquake Detector

Seismologists and app developers are shaking things up with a new app that transforms smartphones into personal earthquake detectors.

By tapping into a smartphone's accelerometer — the motion-detection instrument — the free Android app, called MyShake, can pick up and interpret nearby quake activity, estimating the earthquake's location and magnitude in real-time, and then relaying the information to a central database for seismologists to analyze.

_Tombstone_

JupiterKid wrote: »

Back on topic...

It's pretty disappointing to hear of this delay/setback to Insight, but better to be safe than sorry. I just hope that the delay is only 2 years.

$150 million to modify and test the seismometer:eek::eek::eek:, Jaysus what are they gonna do to it to spend that?

It's unlikely but talks of cancelling it all together are on the cards.

http://spacenews.com/nasa-decision-on-insight-mars-landers-future-expected-soon/

_Tombstone_

And she's a Go for May 2018

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/10/science/nasa-reschedules-mars-insight-mission-for-may-2018.html