LPT not paid on house I'm buying

marsbar1

Very long story short as it amost Xmas...

My sol asked many months ago for buyers sol to give proof of the LPT discharge/exemption. They at this last minute refuse to do so. House is uninhabitable for many years so they say that the NPPR not paid prior to this is proof enough. (Supposedly they have something from the Council saying NPPR not applicable.)

Sellers sol wants to close now. If I close without more proof can revenue charge me for any LPT/Household charge that they may decide is payable later on? Even though I was not the owner at the time the tax was due?

garhjw

I think you could be liable for LPT. either don't close or reduce your offer. I'm not sure they sale can be completed without the LPT being paid.


Also you need to see proof of nppr exemption

Marcusm

Work out the max NPPR and LPT and instruct your solicitor that you want that amount retained from the proceeds until adequate proof is provided.

If they are exempt from LPT, there will be prof of this. The sellers need contact revenue and they will be able to supply proof. If not, you may be lumped with the bill! Stand firm.

marsbar1

Thanks guys. I can't withold a portion of the price (or reduce my offer ?) as they already have been sent the full funds. We were assuming that everything would be in order to close before Xmas. That will not happen now!

I guess I will have to stand firm for more proof. I would have thought the onus is on the seller to obtain a discharge from revenue saying the property isn't liable?

Marcusm

marsbar1 wrote: »

Thanks guys. I can't withold a portion of the price (or reduce my offer ?) as they already have been sent the full funds. We were assuming that everything would be in order to close before Xmas. That will not happen now!

I guess I will have to stand firm for more proof. I would have thought the onus is on the seller to obtain a discharge from revenue saying the property isn't liable?

There are contradictions in your post. How have you sent the full funds if it has not yet closed? How could you obtain further proof, other than by their generosity, if you have paid them. On the other hand if a solicitor has allowed you to complete without adequate proof, make sure you resolve matters with Revenue/CoCo within the 6 year negligence window!

marsbar1

My solicitor sent them the full funds with a view to close once all last issues had been resolved which was supposed to happen within a few weeks. As far as I know the funds are still in the sellers solicitors account. The last bit of paperwork that the solicitor does to close the deal has not yet been done. He was holding off until he is satisfied that they have answered his queries, but they haven't, so we are at some kind of stalemate situation now.

mickdw

marsbar1 wrote: »

My solicitor sent them the full funds with a view to close once all last issues had been resolved which was supposed to happen within a few weeks. As far as I know the funds are still in the sellers solicitors account. The last bit of paperwork that the solicitor does to close the deal has not yet been done. He was holding off until he is satisfied that they have answered his queries, but they haven't, so we are at some kind of stalemate situation now.

I would have thought your solicitor would hold the funds until satisfied not sent the cash to other party.
The seller solicitor has to get all this is order prior to closing. I have seen them come back with watery claims but these are not good enough. Make no mistake. Any property tax debt stays with the property.
I've seen numerous cases of 7000 non primary residence tax being owed where nobody realised this. Be very careful.

Marcusm

marsbar1 wrote: »

My solicitor sent them the full funds with a view to close once all last issues had been resolved which was supposed to happen within a few weeks. As far as I know the funds are still in the sellers solicitors account. The last bit of paperwork that the solicitor does to close the deal has not yet been done. He was holding off until he is satisfied that they have answered his queries, but they haven't, so we are at some kind of stalemate situation now.

Christ on a bike, why would the vendors solicitor have the funds weeks before the final documentation is available? Were these mortgage funds or your own? Either way, this is not normal or standard practice and I hope you have this wrong. It's certainly screwed up, irrespective of the nppr/LPT situation.

pwurple

If your solicitor has actually done this, then i'd be getting a bit snippy with them, followed by contacting the law society. This is the whole point of the solicitor being involved. To get this legal stuff in order, and protect you, before you part with your money.

They have a checklist of points which must be satisfied. Handing over your money before everything is in order is nuts. Were you putting them under pressure about getting the keys by christmas?

marsbar1

This sale has dragged on for 15 months. He wrote to them a year ago for this information. He was assuming that this information would be supplied with the closing documents as I believe. I was impatient to get the thing finally closed once the last issues regarding PRA titles had been cleared up. As far as I knew everything else was OK so I told him to send the funds on so it could close that week. Then no paperwork was received from the other side for 2 weeks. Now, having seen unstatisfactory evidence about the LPT/Household charge etc my sol wrote to the other side requesting proper evidence that the house was/is not liable for the taxes. They have finally replied saying that they will not provide any further evidence and that what they have provided should suffice.

Nothing in this buying process seems to have gone smoothly as far as I can see. I have limited experience of the process. As I understand nobody can pull out once contracts are signed, and especially now at this stage. But I have no idea if the money could be returned if all breaks down.

The_Conductor

marsbar- this is all screwed up.
The seller does *not* get your funds until you are fully satisfied with the documentary evidence provided- and have signed on the bottom line.
I don't understand how/why your solicitor was happy to send the funds onto the vendor's solicitor. At very least you are seeking the return of a sum, equal to the maximum LPT plus penalties and charges that might apply- if they do not supply the documentation requested. If they do not supply this- as they have stated they are not going to- you ask for your money back- and you walk.

You are buying a pig in a poke- and have handed over money for said pig- before the seller has made any effort to remedy the situation.

There may also be limitations put on the subsequent resale of the property- and/or personal debts registered against owners- where there are outstanding LPT debts.

Its actually quite simple to get a waiver document- the vendor does have to apply for it though.

Leroy42

If something feels wrong it usually is and this feels wrong. Have you signed the sale contract?

Your solicitor dropped the ball on this, they seemed to have asked for evidence rather that stating what constitutes evidence. They are now saying what they supplied is enough which you seem to disagree with. So either is is or it isn't but your solicitor shouldn't have handed over the funds.

Doesn't matter tgat yiu instructed them to, they are the experts and should do what is in your best interest.

To me this would signal something being up. They have stalled for months and now want everything sorted quickly. Sounds to me like they were pursuing other offers which are no longer available and want to secure a deal.

You are letting your emotions control you. Whether you close now or 6 months is, in the long term, irrelevant. They are playing on your desire to get it sorted.

Unless this is a one off once in a lifetime offer I would instruct my solicitor to inform them that without specific evidence supplied within a defined time frame then your offer is withdrawn and any and all funds should be returned.

Marcusm

marsbar1 wrote: »

This sale has dragged on for 15 months. He wrote to them a year ago for this information. He was assuming that this information would be supplied with the closing documents as I believe. I was impatient to get the thing finally closed once the last issues regarding PRA titles had been cleared up. As far as I knew everything else was OK so I told him to send the funds on so it could close that week. Then no paperwork was received from the other side for 2 weeks. Now, having seen unstatisfactory evidence about the LPT/Household charge etc my sol wrote to the other side requesting proper evidence that the house was/is not liable for the taxes. They have finally replied saying that they will not provide any further evidence and that what they have provided should suffice.

Nothing in this buying process seems to have gone smoothly as far as I can see. I have limited experience of the process. As I understand nobody can pull out once contracts are signed, and especially now at this stage. But I have no idea if the money could be returned if all breaks down.

Transferring the funds can take as little as 30 minutes on electronic banking or 10 minutes by bank draft (trust me, I've done the latter). The purchaser should always hold onto the funds until the last minute as it seems like you have exchanged contracts with some requisitions outstanding. Your only way to put pressure on them to complete the requisitions is to withhold funds. As they have the funds, the vendor can now drag this out, refuse the requisitions and pressure you/your solicitor to waive them and complete the sale. If you have drawn down mortgage funds not only are you accruing interest but it is likely that they have been drawn down under a misstatement from your solicitor that the sale was ready to complete. If the documentation does not arrive and the funds have to be returned, your solicitor (who also acts for the bank) will be under a cloud as far as the bank are concerned. He is certainly not acting in your or the bank's best interests.

April 73

Does the seller's solicitor have your signed contract to purchase as well as your money.
You aren't in a good position now.

marsbar1

I wish I had posted here a year earlier as soon as things started to stall. Yes they now have the money. I'm not sure if they have the signed contract now but I am guessing my solicitor sent it on. Luckily there is no bank involved - its not a lot of money but every day they or I delay the house is deteriorating. *The conductor*, I signed the contract back in March I think, way before any of these things became a problem.

There are no other offers, the house has been off the market all year. Myself, the sellers (by all accounts as I understand) and the agent have all been chasing the sellers solicitor to get things moving.

My solicitor informs me nothing has come up in his closing searches.

marsbar1

I think christmas got in the way. Solicitors still on Xmas holiday I would imagine. I have heard nothing more.

I can't back out of the deal can I as I have signed the contract? I assume my solicitor has sent them it when he sent them the 10% deposit. Its hard to remember now as this has dragged on over a year. If I knew how things were going to go with this house I never would have tried to buy it and looked elsewhere! Can I get out of it?

antoinolachtnai

You need to obtain your solicitor's advice in the first instance and if you are concerned you need further legal advice. Whether you can pull out depends on what exactly the papers say.

It is a very delicate situation, do not do anything rash. It could still turn out ok.