Begging with a child

InReality

So saw this today.

What's the likelyhood of a woman being homeless with a young child in dublin.
I'd thought they come top of the priority list ?

Horrible to see someone exploiting a child like that.

Some emergency accommodation rules mean that they have to be out of the building between 10am and 6pm.

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

Some emergency accommodation rules mean that they have to be out of the building between 10am and 6pm.

I don't believe this is the case for families placed into emergency accommodation.

libelula

InReality wrote: »

Horrible to see someone exploiting a child like that.

Yes. Our government and society as a whole have a lot to answer for.

Samaris

It's an odd one. On the one hand, it feels like a deliberate tug at the heartstrings "My child is cold and hungry because no-one will help us! Why won't you help my child?" On the other, well, if a person is begging because they actually have no other recourse (maybe they're new to the country and don't know where to go for help, etcetera), where -can- they leave a small child for hours on end alone?

Meeh. Hard to say really. I hear an awful lot about how beggers are just spongers and have places to go and can feed themselves just fine (and no doubt there -are- people that act in a totally despicable manner and make things horrendously harder for the truly desperate), but I do also see people who are sleeping in doorways on cold or rainy nights, which suggests they really do have a desperate situation.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

I don't believe this is the case for families placed into emergency accommodation.

Unless it has been changed recently, unfortunately it certainly was the case.

I know one family who were put into a B&B - they weren't allowed to lock the door of their room, so the mother pushed one of the two single beds (between mother and 2 daughters) up against the door at night as she was so worried that one of the other residents would come in through the night.

She had to be out at 10am and not allowed back until 6 - I know a few people who were in similar circumstances, but the above the only one I know of for certain with children involved.

Hopefully you're right though Seamus, and that things have changed.

bear1

InReality wrote: »

So saw this today.

What's the likelyhood of a woman being homeless with a young child in dublin.
I'd thought they come top of the priority list ?

Horrible to see someone exploiting a child like that.

How do you know they were homeless?

bear1

bear1 wrote: »

How do you know they were homeless?

She doesn't - that's why she asked

bear1

Deleted User wrote: »

She doesn't - that's why she asked

Ah yes, sorry I saw no ? so figured it was a rhetorical question.
How do you know OP is a she HMM?!?! HMMMMMM?!?!? :P

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Spanish Eyes

Brother Kevin's Capuchin Day Centre is where a lot of those who are turfed out for the day go. He's a good man and is not on a massive salary either.

It's my go to charity for donations.

http://www.capuchindaycentre.ie/Capuchin_Day_Centre_2013/Capuchin_Day_Centre_for_Homeless_People.html

libelula

libelula wrote: »

Yes. Our government and society as a whole have a lot to answer for.

And the mother doesn't?

OP, what makes you say they're homeless? There are many making a good living from begging and having a child/baby is only a ploy and isn't necessarily that womans own child.

bear1

bear1 wrote: »

Ah yes, sorry I saw no ? so figured it was a rhetorical question.
How do you know OP is a she HMM?!?! HMMMMMM?!?!? :P

I actually have no idea

draiochtanois

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

How do you know who the poster elected to government? How do you know that she isn't one of the ones who gives her free time to help others?

Seems a strangely defensive post.

c montgomery

libelula wrote: »

Yes. Our government and society as a whole have a lot to answer for.

As a society no we don't, more is spent on helping homeless now than ever before, more column inches and broadcasting hours.
Over 25k is spent per homeless person currently.
I'm sick of hearing of this homeless crises!!!

Ally Dick

OP do they look Irish or foreign ? I'd believe that they are milking it if they were non-Irish

Samaris

Deleted User wrote: »

And the mother doesn't?

OP, what makes you say they're homeless? There are many making a good living from begging and having a child/baby is only a ploy and isn't necessarily that womans own child.

Ally Dick wrote: »

OP do they look Irish or foreign ? I'd believe that they are milking it if they were non-Irish

See, that's where the problem comes in. Furrinors are obviously all criminals, but no Irish would do such a thing.

Although I'm not sure where the logical conclusion is that she nicked a sprog from somewhere. People tend to get upset about random kidnapping.

Kat1170

Ally Dick wrote: »

OP do they look Irish or foreign ? I'd believe that they are milking it if they were non-Irish

Winner of stupidest question of the year !!!!

How the funk does a person look Irish ????

Samaris

Kat1170 wrote: »

Winner of stupidest question of the year !!!!

How the funk does a person look Irish ????

Dark hair, blue/grey eyes.

I assume he means that they don't look Roma, black or Arab.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

FalconGirl

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

A government elected on false promises have a lot to answer for in my opinion. Yes the economy is growing however the social fabric of the country is in ruins. Health and housing policy has been disastrous under the coalition.

Graces7

If they are roma... in Donegal Town a fewyears back a wee boy begging playing a violin and later in Ballyshannon in cold and rain, a man with a little girl who he was making dance barefoot in a thin cotton dress. Oh and here in Kerry one summer a local 6 year old busking in a very vulnerable situation. The roma by the way had good accommodation; the wee lad was being yelled at so i went to eh Gardai and they knew all about that family...

Mary63

The only people who beg with children are the Roma community,can I say this without being called a racist as we all can see with our own eyes that its the truth.

The giveaway is the gold wedged between the front teeth.

Don't give them as much as a cent,they are driven in from all over Dublin and some of the children hidden in the blankets are old enough to be in school,these people are beyond reform.

Call the Gardai and they will take take action.The parents will be back on the streets the following day though.

Graces7

FalconGirl wrote: »

A government elected on false promises have a lot to answer for in my opinion. Yes the economy is growing however the social fabric of the country is in ruins. Health and housing policy has been disastrous under the coalition.

Compared with almost any other country..... I have family working with the homeless in Canada. Where there were at the last audit almost 3 million people living rough on the streets. By the way the news reports here use the term " homeless" inaccurately; internationally that means living rough. If they are in emergency accommodation they are not homeless. Social welfare is so bad there there many families have to choose between paying the rent and eating. We have been feeding such families for Christmas.Many here overreached financially and are paying for that now.

Penny Tration

Mary63 wrote: »

The only people who beg with children are the Roma community,can I say this without being called a racist as we all can see with our own eyes that its the truth.

The giveaway is the gold wedged between the front teeth.

It's not the truth.

I've seen Irish women and men have kids out begging with them.

A family from my area, gran, mum, teenage son, teenage daughter and 10-ish year old all go begging daily in the city centre.

It's most certainly not all Roma people. They absolutely do it too, but Irish also do it.

Graces7

Penny Tration wrote: »

It's not the truth.

I've seen Irish women and men have kids out begging with them.

A family from my area, gran, mum, teenage son, teenage daughter and 10-ish year old all go begging daily in the city centre.

It's most certainly not all Roma people. They absolutely do it too, but Irish also do it.

Not from need. Just taking advantage. Like the kids I see busking..parents exploiting kids .. no international barriers.

Samaris

Mary63 wrote: »

The only people who beg with children are the Roma community,can I say this without being called a racist as we all can see with our own eyes that its the truth.

The giveaway is the gold wedged between the front teeth.

Don't give them as much as a cent,they are driven in from all over Dublin and some of the children hidden in the blankets are old enough to be in school,these people are beyond reform.

Call the Gardai and they will take take action.The parents will be back on the streets the following day though.

You can say it all you like, it still doesn't make it true. I've seen children on the streets plenty of times. In fact, I was approached by a man with a small child the other day who was begging for food rather than money. He wasn't Roma, by the way.

I presume that if a person is a genuine beggar and needs money, they have to bring kids with them as they are hardly going to be paying for child care?

Ally Dick

Kat1170 wrote: »

Winner of stupidest question of the year !!!!

How the funk does a person look Irish ????

Roma beggars tend to have a tan. Irish don't get a tan in December unless they've been on holidays

bear1

This thread will end in racism i bet.

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

I presume that if a person is a genuine beggar and needs money, they have to bring kids with them as they are hardly going to be paying for child care?

Well let's be honest here, nobody has to beg. Social welfare payments and emergency accommodation are always available.

Also if someone is unable to provide care for their own children, the state will put them into foster care, which has to be better than dragging them around the streets all day.

I know that's all very simplistic from up here on my ivory throne, but ultimately nobody is left with begging as their only option. They are always either "employed" as a beggar, or otherwise unemployable due to mental issues or substance abuse.

suicide_circus

libelula wrote: »

Yes. Our government and society as a whole have a lot to answer for.

Blaming society and the government because we don't live in utopia.

Kat1170

Ally Dick wrote: »

Roma beggars tend to have a tan. Irish don't get a tan in December unless they've been on holidays

A tan fades, so they've all been on holidays !!!

So ALL Irish people are pale milky white with red hair freckles. What rock do you live under ??



The BNP would love you :mad:

kowloon

Kat1170 wrote: »

Winner of stupidest question of the year !!!!

How the funk does a person look Irish ????

You can always tell

wakka12

Kat1170 wrote: »

Winner of stupidest question of the year !!!!

How the funk does a person look Irish ????

You know wella Roma and Irish person look very different, that statement is beyond ridiculous

screamer

How is the government responsible if you have sex and bring a child into the world suddenly everyone should provide for your child and hand you everything for free? Get real. That's what's so wrong with our society. No one gives me hand outs for my kids I work my ass off to make sure they have a roof over their head clothes on their back and food in their belly because I chose to bring them into the world and it's my responsibility to provide for them. I've never seen a birth cert with Irish government or society of Ireland listed as a parent. If you cant afford kids don't have them. Everything in life is a choice.

Richard Hillman

Over the last 15-20 years we fostered a culture of "have kids, get a free home". It created an entitlement culture of where people who were not capable of looking after their own children, continued to have more children on the premise that the state would look after them.

The time is now where this culture is ending. Young ladies and useless fathers need to actually appreciate the responsibility of having children. It is not up to the state to feed and house them, it is up to you as parents. And if you cannot do that, then you have failed your children.

I know so many young ones that dropped out of school, have no career prospects and are still expecting a Free/Massively subsidised house. This homeless "crisis" is the tough-love moment where people realise that you if you have kids and no life prospects, you are ****ed. It should encourage little Rihanna and Anto that they need to wrap up and go on the pill, otherwise you will be living in a hotel room and not the 3 bed-room Semi-D that Rihanna's big sister got 5 years ago.

Lux23

Deleted User wrote: »

And the mother doesn't?

OP, what makes you say they're homeless? There are many making a good living from begging and having a child/baby is only a ploy and isn't necessarily that womans own child.

There are 1,000 homeless children in this country at the moment; what you're saying here might have been true in 2005, it isn't now.

Lux23

c montgomery wrote: »

As a society no we don't, more is spent on helping homeless now than ever before, more column inches and broadcasting hours.
Over 25k is spent per homeless person currently.
I'm sick of hearing of this homeless crises!!!

Then why are there still lots of homeless people? Poor you, having to hear about someone else's plight, would you rather we just all talk about the weather instead?

Kat1170

wakka12 wrote: »

You know wella Roma and Irish person look very different, that statement is beyond ridiculous

Maybe you should read the thread again !!!!

The term Roma wasn't mentioned until AFTER I posted that, and Ally Dick was the first poster to mention 'foreign' and 'how they looked', and anyone who thinks no one Irish looks 'Roma' is being ridiculous!!!

Lux23

Mary63 wrote: »

The only people who beg with children are the Roma community,can I say this without being called a racist as we all can see with our own eyes that its the truth.

Lots of Roma do that alright, but there are plenty of Irish women doing it as well.

steddyeddy

seamus wrote: »

I don't believe this is the case for families placed into emergency accommodation.

It most certainly is the case. Not only that but through sudden homelessness there may be a length of time between being homeless and being put on the list.

Ally Dick

Kat1170 wrote: »

A tan fades, so they've all been on holidays !!!

So ALL Irish people are pale milky white with red hair freckles. What rock do you live under ??



The BNP would love you :mad:

Ah come on. You're construing what I said as racist. It's not. I am merely wondering if the original beggars are Irish or not. That's all

Lux23

Graces7 wrote: »

Compared with almost any other country..... I have family working with the homeless in Canada. Where there were at the last audit almost 3 million people living rough on the streets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_Canada#Homelessness_count

By 2008 the annual homelessness count was considered to be a politically-charged and methodologically-contentious issue. The federal estimate of the core number of homeless people in Canada was 200,000 in 2005, or about 1 per cent of the population.[2] Homeless advocates estimated it to be closer to 20,000 annually, or 30,000 on any given night plus those in the hidden homelessness category. This includes 6,000 youth nightly and 30,000 youth annually

Three million? Really??

esforum

Roma and traveller women tend to bring the kids with them and in some cases, the child is not theirs.

Please, dont give a begger money, support a charity with a meaningful monthly donation be it focus Ireland, Barnardos or whoever you chose.

If a person begging has a child with them that looks cold, uncomfortable, hungry or in distress call a Garda. It may be sad, but if thats the conditions the child is being put in by the parent then its time for alternatives or at the very least, intervention.

Mary63

If everyone just stopped giving the begging would stop.

The Social welfare payments in this country are more than generous enough to maintain a family unless someone in the family is drinking and smoking.

Worse then the begging is those young men banging on the car asking you do you want your windows cleaned with a filthy scrunchy thing,even if you say no two of them do it anyway preventing you driving,this annoys me so much.If I want my car cleaned I will go to a valet service which is registered and which pay its employees properly.

Why do people give giving these people money too.

Kat1170

Ally Dick wrote: »

OP do they look Irish or foreign ? I'd believe that they are milking it if they were non-Irish

Ally Dick wrote: »

Roma beggars tend to have a tan. Irish don't get a tan in December unless they've been on holidays

Ally Dick wrote: »

Ah come on. You're construing what I said as racist. It's not. I am merely wondering if the original beggars are Irish or not. That's all

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Mary63

You don't generally see Irish travellers begging anymore,I think they have found more lucrative ways of making money.

In Dublin city centre anyway and in our local shopping centre its definitely members of the Roma Community who beg,they are begging all day everyday so someone is giving them money.

Ally Dick

Kat1170 wrote: »

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

To your sensitive eyes it does anyway

Spanish Eyes

Regarding homeless services, I often wonder why there are so many (in Dublin anyway).

Simon (charity, CEO paid)
Focus Ireland (charity, CEO paid)
Fr. Mc Verry Trust I presume he is not paid
Dublin City Council.
Dublin Region Homeless Executive
NOVAS (soup run).
Capuchins. Charity.
Trust Ireland (Alice Leahy)

And so on.

Could there not be just ONE consolidated approach? Or would that reduce the number of paid CEOs around!

Or then again maybe they are better being scattered around so that the homeless just pick one, or FIND one!

People may become "homeless", but today they will never be without shelter of some sort. It might not be Home but it will not be on the streets either, unless the homeless person decides not to partake.

esforum

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Regarding homeless services, I often wonder why there are so many (in Dublin anyway).

Simon (charity, CEO paid)
Focus Ireland (charity, CEO paid)
Fr. Mc Verry Trust I presume he is not paid
Dublin City Council.
Dublin Region Homeless Executive
NOVAS (soup run).
Capuchins. Charity.
Trust Ireland (Alice Leahy)

And so on.

Could there not be just ONE consolidated approach? Or would that reduce the number of paid CEOs around!

Or then again maybe they are better being scattered around so that the homeless just pick one, or FIND one!

People may become "homeless", but today they will never be without shelter of some sort. It might not be Home but it will not be on the streets either, unless the homeless person decides not to partake.

often wonder this myself about charities in general. Presumable its because the people starting a new charity either disagree with how the others operate or just want their names associated with it. For example, there were plenty of Cancer research charities before keating got involved, why not just donate and support one?