Practice Salaries

Autobotsarego

Aren't they actually quite poor given most don't offer things like pension contributions, health insurance etc.?

Looking at the CAI 2015 salary survey for leinster - practice is also the lowest paid area.

I'm early 30's and wondering whether a long term career in practice is the thing to stay at.

I work in small to medium firm in Dublin area, manager/audit manger, and salary between €55k - €60k.

Looks from that salary survey that I need to get into industry or else into a Top 10/20 firm as manager/senior manager/director. I am ambitious and would like to a) develop b) and earn higher (more importantly) - yes money is a motivator with hopes of actually being able to retire comfortably.

I feel my current salary is very average or slightly below average - especially as I am committed, motivated, competent and intelligent.

Thoughts?

viztopia

For some reason the pay in practice is less than in industry and I think practice is more difficult.

Autobotsarego

Autobotsarego wrote: »

........

I work in small to medium firm in Dublin area, manager/audit manger, and salary between €55k - €60k..........

A relative did the KPMG thing many years ago, left after the 4 years was up and went into industry.

They are chartered and 10+ years exp, on the upper end of the salary you mention but do get the pension & healthcare along with a circa 10% bonus, not in Dublin. They find the role a bit boring, end of month, end of quarter, end of year round and round again.

Autobotsarego

Very hard to decide a career path from here.

1. Plug away in small firm and hope for partnership offer

2. Get into bigger firm and try work from manger to director

3. Try get into industry but may demand an initial pay cut and is uncharted waters

Autobotsarego

Any thoughts anyone?

Looking at Brightwater and there are Top 10 firms only offering €45k - €55k for assistant managers and managers.

Looks like I'd need to get to Senior manager level quickly and then hope to make Director.

Jim2007

You don't make money working for other people... Salaries and conditions in practice are so low because you are not expected to make a career out of it. You are supposed to move on - you either make partner, start your own practice or do something outside practice. To make partner or run your own practice you need people skills above all because introducing new clients to the firm is a big part of the role.

Autobotsarego

Jim2007 wrote: »

You don't make money working for other people... Salaries and conditions in practice are so low because you are not expected to make a career out of it. You are supposed to move on - you either make partner, start your own practice or do something outside practice. To make partner or run your own practice you need people skills above all because introducing new clients to the firm is a big part of the role.

Obviously where I am going wrong!

I work in a sole practitioners so not sure about partnership (unlikely) and don't have the capital to get a practice off the ground (with young children to support).

Might never make partner in a bigger firm.

Sound like industry might be the way to go but I assume it's going to be an issue having no direct industry experience (and possibly require a paycut to get a foot on the ladder)

Jim2007

Or alternatively you find a firm or sole practice seeking a partner. I would not worry to much about capital, if you have an opportunity to join a partnership they or a bank should be willing to give you a business loan or allow you to build up the capital as a salaried partner.

Johnny_Fontane

Salaries in smaller practice are generally low. 55-60k is a decent salary for smaller practice, pending the amount of pqe you have (if you are 30's might guess you are around the 5-7 year mark). The problem as Jim said is that the ceiling is very low.

You would probably have no problem getting into a larger practice. The Big 4 might also look at you (but you would probably need to be chartered, which you might or might not be), but not sure that is what you might want to do.

If you were looking to move up, any of the practices in the top 10 (GT, BDO, Mazars, Baker Tilly, FGS and Crowe Horwath) could be a great option. Plenty of scope to work your way up the chain. The hours will probably be longer than where you are, but the career progression opportunities will be much better and you will get a decent benefit package.

If you wanted to have a chat, drop me a pm.

Johnny_Fontane

Autobotsarego wrote: »

Obviously where I am going wrong!

Sound like industry might be the way to go but I assume it's going to be an issue having no direct industry experience (and possibly require a paycut to get a foot on the ladder)

Moving to Industry is an option for sure. You could easily take on a fc role with a smaller company. Again depends on your experience to date, which I presume is a good mix of audit, accounts prep and some tax.

Autobotsarego

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

Salaries in smaller practice are generally low. 55-60k is a decent salary for smaller practice, pending the amount of pqe you have (if you are 30's might guess you are around the 5-7 year mark). The problem as Jim said is that the ceiling is very low.

Yeah I get well paid @ nearly €60k for a very small practice (<10 people) and it's handy in every respect (including hours of 8.30 - 5.30/6 most of the year) which i why I've been there so long. But you get comfortable, too comfortable don't you?

I feel I've basically hit my ceiling and my learning curve is flattening. I want a career and to progress - both more money and to learn new things. I do have young children so it's about making the right next step.

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

You would probably have no problem getting into a larger practice. The Big 4 might also look at you (but you would probably need to be chartered, which you might or might not be), but not sure that is what you might want to do.

Yeah chartered and 6 years PQE. Not sure the big 4 appeal to me in terms of the hours with young family. Have friends who trained in them and all left. An in law was a senior manager and was culled in last recession and tretaed badly.

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

If you were looking to move up, any of the practices in the top 10 (GT, BDO, Mazars, Baker Tilly, FGS and Crowe Horwath) could be a great option. Plenty of scope to work your way up the chain. The hours will probably be longer than where you are, but the career progression opportunities will be much better and you will get a decent benefit package.

I've kept my eye in and gone for interviews with mid sized firms (prob more top 25 than those above as no IFRS experience) and had a few offers over the years but ultimately turned them down due to various reasons. Mainly I wasn't quite ready and wife then got pregnant.

A guy left here 5 years or so ago and is now a director in a top 25 place so I guess that would be my aim/path to follow if I stay in practice.

It's just trying to get the right place with a family - I'm a hard worker, have also excelled, am dedicated and motivated - no issue there I just don't want to work really long hours. 8.30 to 7 about the limit.

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

If you wanted to have a chat, drop me a pm.

Thanks I'll drop you a PM later today/tomorrow

Autobotsarego

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

Moving to Industry is an option for sure. You could easily take on a fc role with a smaller company. Again depends on your experience to date, which I presume is a good mix of audit, accounts prep and some tax.

Yep a mix of everything. Just wasn't sure what my options where industry wise in terms of businesses and salary. Obviously there is that concern about the business failing too. My uncle has ended up as FC in business that have been sold to bigger units or closed down - so it's kind of put me off as practice seems safer.

Also it seems the career is shorter - once you hit 50 it seems to become an issue whereas in practice it doesn't seem this way.

Avatar MIA

viztopia wrote: »

For some reason the pay in practice is less than in industry and I think practice is more difficult.

A lot of accountants start and stay a long time with the practice that first hire them. It's a factor that the greater salary jumps happen when you leave one company for another. The same applies in industry.

It's often considered why don't such people set up their own practices? The folly here is that it's automatically assumed accountants are natural entrepreneurs. That's not always the case.

Autobotsarego

Avatar MIA wrote: »

A lot of accountants start and stay a long time with the practice that first hire them. It's a factor that the greater salary jumps happen when you leave one company for another. The same applies in industry.

Bang on - that's me. Still in training firm. Decent increases though due to going to boss with other offers and being motivated/hard working.

Avatar MIA wrote: »

It's often considered why don't such people set up their own practices? The folly here is that it's automatically assumed accountants are natural entrepreneurs. That's not always the case.

So many reasons;

- The lock up period is quite long. From starting a file to getting paid. So you need significant capital.

- Hard to build that initial portfolio of clients to get to breakeven. People stick with their accountants a bit liket hey stick with banks - hassle to change

- As you say I wouldn't be a natural people person - very good with clients, they really like me and are highly complimentary to my superiors about me. But networking a room and 'putting myself out there' are different matters.

- Naturally risk averse.