Property Market 2016

Askthe EA

Carrotcrunch wrote: »

They said the first buyer was a "cash buyer" and this fell through - no reason given. They then went sale agreed with the second buyer for 5K less than what we offered because they were a "first time buyer" and we were selling to buy, they felt that the first-timers would be more likely to go ahead. They apparently agreed to a 5-week closing and when the first time buyers couldn't uphold that, they came back to us. And are still making our lives hell. This house has been on the market for a year now, according to Daft. What are they playing at? It's empty, nobody is living there.

The first excuse is quite likely to be fair. Its not unheard of for people to pull out as they find another property that suits them better. The second was probably the underbidder to the first at an offer of 5k lower so this also makes sense.

I'm not sure its fair to say they are making your life hell by making sure you have all your funds ready to go. Think about it from the vendors point of view, they have been burned twice through no fault of their own (assuming what you have been told is true). The EA is now under pressure to deliver a buyer and is being very cautious.

I wouldnt be concerned that its been on the market a year. If that is the case, it was initially valued probably 14 months ago. The vendors probably have a figure that they want / need to get out at. They were prepared to wait until the market came to that price which it seems it has. Between the two sale agreeds there was probably 8 weeks wasted there.

Buying a house is the biggest single purchase of your life, it was never going to be the easiest. Keep the faith.

TENHNY

Buying a house is the biggest single purchase of your life, it was never going to be the easiest. Keep the faith.[/QUOTE]


I needed to see this today so feed up of the whole processs

Carrotcrunch

Askthe EA wrote: »

The first excuse is quite likely to be fair. Its not unheard of for people to pull out as they find another property that suits them better. The second was probably the underbidder to the first at an offer of 5k lower so this also makes sense.

I'm not sure its fair to say they are making your life hell by making sure you have all your funds ready to go. Think about it from the vendors point of view, they have been burned twice through no fault of their own (assuming what you have been told is true). The EA is now under pressure to deliver a buyer and is being very cautious.

I wouldnt be concerned that its been on the market a year. If that is the case, it was initially valued probably 14 months ago. The vendors probably have a figure that they want / need to get out at. They were prepared to wait until the market came to that price which it seems it has. Between the two sale agreeds there was probably 8 weeks wasted there.

Buying a house is the biggest single purchase of your life, it was never going to be the easiest. Keep the faith.

Thank you for replying, it's great to see it from a different perspective. I guess I may have been a tad dramatic with "making our lives hell" but...I still feel like they are! They still haven't gone sale agreed with us, despite the EA calling frequently to bark orders down the phone to us. We've done everything EA has asked and we're not sure if we're being foolish...but your reply has settled me somewhat. So thank you.

Just one more thing - back at the end of May, EA called to tell us they went with the lower bid over our bid because it looked like a more atraightforward sale (as I mentioned previously). When that fell through EA called us and said the owners wanted to see if we were still interested - at the higher bid we had offered. I said firmly that while we are absolutely interested, we will not be offering a penny over what they had sale agreed with the sale that went through. The house was put back on the market in the meantime and we've kept in touch - looks to be still available. Our paperwork is ready to go now - if they won't give us an answer in the next couple of days, should we walk away? We've always been interested, we have done everything they have asked, we have practically sold our house for under us - but we will not offer that extra 5K at this point.

Carrotcrunch

Barely Hedged wrote: »

They are making your life hell by asking you to have all your documentation in order?

No - by asking us to prove our house is being sold. By asking us who our solicitor is, and details...bearing in mind we still haven't gone sale agreed. By asking us for details of our estate agent. By asking us who is buying our house. By asking us where the title deeds are. By asking us to send them MUDs documentation from OUR house - nothing to do with the house we want to buy. EA now putting pressure on the people buying our house to sign. It's madness.

And we haven't even gone sale agreed on the property this EA is trying to sell!

Askthe EA

Carrotcrunch wrote: »

No - by asking us to prove our house is being sold. By asking us who our solicitor is, and details...bearing in mind we still haven't gone sale agreed. By asking us for details of our estate agent. By asking us who is buying our house. By asking us where the title deeds are. By asking us to send them MUDs documentation from OUR house - nothing to do with the house we want to buy. EA now putting pressure on the people buying our house to sign. It's madness.

And we haven't even gone sale agreed on the property this EA is trying to sell!

Ok, again, may I add some perspective from the other side if thats ok? I feel a lot of the bad will towards my kind stem from a lack of understanding, and more importantly a lack of willingness from EAs to explain why they request something.

by asking us to prove our house is being sold. - If I have to go to my client to recommend an offer, I need to be sure I'm not left with egg on my face, I can assure you, one persons idea of if their property is sold and the reality are two different things.

By asking us who our solicitor is - The difference between solicitors and how quickly they move is of huge importance to the time period from agreement to closing. There are few here that I groan when I see their names.

By asking us where the title deeds are - Hugely important. If your deeds are with the bank still, you might a) not have permission from them to sell 2) Depending on the bank, they can take varying lengths of time to be released to your solicitor. In the case of one national bank, they physically mislaid a number of deeds. It caused HAVOC!

MUDS are a major stumbling block in the sales process but on this, I have NEVER heard of an EA request them. Its normally the legal side that do that. That is odd.

EA is doing what now?? The EA on the property you want to buy is putting pressure on the people who are looking to buy YOUR house? How? Is it the same EA acting on both properties?

Those last two make little sense to me.

Carrotcrunch

Askthe EA wrote: »

Ok, again, may I add some perspective from the other side if thats ok? I feel a lot of the bad will towards my kind stem from a lack of understanding, and more importantly a lack of willingness from EAs to explain why they request something.

by asking us to prove our house is being sold. - If I have to go to my client to recommend an offer, I need to be sure I'm not left with egg on my face, I can assure you, one persons idea of if their property is sold and the reality are two different things.

By asking us who our solicitor is - The difference between solicitors and how quickly they move is of huge importance to the time period from agreement to closing. There are few here that I groan when I see their names.

By asking us where the title deeds are - Hugely important. If your deeds are with the bank still, you might a) not have permission from them to sell 2) Depending on the bank, they can take varying lengths of time to be released to your solicitor. In the case of one national bank, they physically mislaid a number of deeds. It caused HAVOC!

MUDS are a major stumbling block in the sales process but on this, I have NEVER heard of an EA request them. Its normally the legal side that do that. That is odd.

EA is doing what now?? The EA on the property you want to buy is putting pressure on the people who are looking to buy YOUR house? How? Is it the same EA acting on both properties?

Those last two make little sense to me.

No, not same EA on both properties although I can see how you would think this might be the case.
EA is saying owners will go sale agreed with the buyer who can sell quickest. Our solicitor hasn't sent our contracts over to the solicitors of the people who are buying our house until today because the MUDs replies took a couple of weeks to get from (our very reluctant) management company.

EA is asking when the buyers will sign, can we speed it up...obviously we have to say no, they are entitled to take the 3 weeks or whatever the allotted time is. They may need to get their funds in order or whatever - I get this. I have bought one house in my lifetime. How is the EA not getting this?

All the while...still not sale agreed on the house this EA is selling!

EA on our side - the one who sold/is selling our house - is a dream. Polite, decent, fair - did everything we asked and was always contactable and reasonable.

Askthe EA

Carrotcrunch wrote: »

No, not same EA on both properties although I can see how you would think this might be the case.
EA is saying owners will go sale agreed with the buyer who can sell quickest. Our solicitor hasn't sent our contracts over to the solicitors of the people who are buying our house until today because the MUDs replies took a couple of weeks to get from (our very reluctant) management company.

EA is asking when the buyers will sign, can we speed it up...obviously we have to say no, they are entitled to take the 3 weeks or whatever the allotted time is. They may need to get their funds in order or whatever - I get this. I have bought one house in my lifetime. How is the EA not getting this?

All the while...still not sale agreed on the house this EA is selling!

EA on our side - the one who sold/is selling our house - is a dream. Polite, decent, fair - did everything we asked and was always contactable and reasonable.

My theory, and it is just that, is that the EA you are selling with knows that if they go back with another dud they will lose the sale. They have been working on this for a year with no success (possibly through no fault of their own). Now, thats none of your business.

There are other things which may explain why they are being so sticky. They may have been involved in sales within your current development and know that there are issues in relation to MUD (management company issues, arrears etc)

If you put a gun to my head, I would hazard a guess that the EA hasnt told his client about your bid yet and wants to deliver an offer his client wont refuse as in, ' I have an offer of x, with no conditions (except engineers report - actually, have you had one carried out yet?), looking to close in 4 weeks. Nothing to sell (makes you a cash buyer). Its possible his clients are difficult.

Carrotcrunch

Askthe EA wrote: »

My theory, and it is just that, is that the EA you are selling with knows that if they go back with another dud they will lose the sale. They have been working on this for a year with no success (possibly through no fault of their own). Now, thats none of your business.

There are other things which may explain why they are being so sticky. They may have been involved in sales within your current development and know that there are issues in relation to MUD (management company issues, arrears etc)

If you put a gun to my head, I would hazard a guess that the EA hasnt told his client about your bid yet and wants to deliver an offer his client wont refuse as in, ' I have an offer of x, with no conditions (except engineers report - actually, have you had one carried out yet?), looking to close in 4 weeks. Nothing to sell (makes you a cash buyer). Its possible his clients are difficult.

I see - makes sense. The buyers for our place had their engineers report done on the place we're selling - no problem. We obviously haven't had an engineer go into the place we want to buy because it's not sale agreed. But I see where you're coming from - so basically, after today if EA can't tell us we're sale agreed, we should walk away? There is literally no reason not to sell to us, apart from the fact that we've cut our offer by 5K to match what they went sale agreed on in May (the one they chose over us, believing it would be quicker)

Also...now this is a bit sneaky. We know who the sellers are - wasn't hard to find out. Should we go to them directly or is that really reallg bad? (As an EA I can guess you answer, rightfully!)

bleary

Cant believe I'm saying it but give the EA a break, they deal in volume unless they are selling very high end properties. The basic issue is trust, despite what we say both vendors and buyers lie.
They have been burnt by trusting two sets of buyers already, think of the viewings , sales ads and materials already produced for the last year they will not be earning too much at this stage,

If you are intent on buying the place which you seem to be , just proceed with the process giving as much assurance as you can.
I'm in a similiar position, I didn't make a big deal about marking sale agreed etc because I realised that the agent had been burnt already. I'm just proceeding with good faith at the moment on the basis that they do want to sell with as little hassle as possible.
I actually think the 5 week limit to close on the FTB was a bit demanding though, things happen and everything takes three times longer than you expect.

RandomAccess

Carrotcrunch wrote: »

Thank you for replying, it's great to see it from a different perspective. I guess I may have been a tad dramatic with "making our lives hell" but...I still feel like they are! They still haven't gone sale agreed with us, despite the EA calling frequently to bark orders down the phone to us. We've done everything EA has asked and we're not sure if we're being foolish...but your reply has settled me somewhat. So thank you.

Just one more thing - back at the end of May, EA called to tell us they went with the lower bid over our bid because it looked like a more atraightforward sale (as I mentioned previously). When that fell through EA called us and said the owners wanted to see if we were still interested - at the higher bid we had offered. I said firmly that while we are absolutely interested, we will not be offering a penny over what they had sale agreed with the sale that went through. The house was put back on the market in the meantime and we've kept in touch - looks to be still available. Our paperwork is ready to go now - if they won't give us an answer in the next couple of days, should we walk away? We've always been interested, we have done everything they have asked, we have practically sold our house for under us - but we will not offer that extra 5K at this point.

Give them an ultimatum date.
You could move on then.
Target it as much at the EA as the seller since it's not really in his best interest to have it sitting on his books, he may want to collect his cheque at this stage and cash out. He should be convincing them to sell or you won't get anywhere.

Askthe EA

RandomAccess wrote: »

Give them an ultimatum date.
You could move on then.
Target it as much at the EA as the seller since it's not really in his best interest to have it sitting on his books, he may want to collect his cheque at this stage and cash out. He should be convincing them to sell or you won't get anywhere.

Id be slow to give an ultimatum to be honest. Very slow. Bear in mind the EA can only do what his client instructs him to do. Some people do not respond well to ultimatums (especially the older they are I find).

Its your call but I'd be patient. If you still dont have movement in a week then start thinking about an ultimatum.

As regards going direct to the vendor, I would say that should be a port of last resort.

RandomAccess

Askthe EA wrote: »

Id be slow to give an ultimatum to be honest. Very slow. Bear in mind the EA can only do what his client instructs him to do. Some people do not respond well to ultimatums (especially the older they are I find).

Its your call but I'd be patient. If you still dont have movement in a week then start thinking about an ultimatum.

As regards going direct to the vendor, I would say that should be a port of last resort.

My read of it is that the EA and Seller know you will wait so they are keeping you on the sidelines as a backup while they try get a better bid. If you can wait then by all means do that, but if you need to get things resolved.. well it sounds like you could be in for a long wait.

If the property is unique and you are set on it and you can wait then do. But keep an eye out for something else that ticks those boxes.

Carrotcrunch

Thanks for all your replies, much appreciated. Now, another query. If the common areas haven't been transferred to the owners as we've just discovered in our case via MUDs replies, why is this so bad? (as I've googled). It hasn't made a difference to us over the last few years since buying this place. It's well managed, the sinking fund healthy...should we be worried?

Askthe EA

Carrotcrunch wrote: »

Thanks for all your replies, much appreciated. Now, another query. If the common areas haven't been transferred to the owners as we've just discovered in our case via MUDs replies, why is this so bad? (as I've googled). It hasn't made a difference to us over the last few years since buying this place. It's well managed, the sinking fund healthy...should we be worried?

Lets say you get a sinkhole in the access road, who pays for the repair?

Carrotcrunch

Askthe EA wrote: »

Lets say you get a sinkhole in the access road, who pays for the repair?

Ok, I get you. I remember being told upon buying, that the common areas would be transferred to the owners and that was good enough for me...never followed it up though. Gulp.

Hazydays123

Carrotcrunch wrote: »

They still haven't gone sale agreed with us, despite the EA calling frequently to bark orders down the phone to us.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one dealing with an EA who literally makes me feel nauseous when I see his number coming up on screen

The EA on this thread seems so nice. What happened to all the others?!!

Are there really solicitors who are well known in the business for holding up conveyancing? It was suggested above by 'Ask the EA'. What would be the benefit to them in doing that?

Carrotcrunch

Hazydays123 wrote: »

Carrotcrunch wrote: »

They still haven't gone sale agreed with us, despite the EA calling frequently to bark orders down the phone to us.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one dealing with an EA who literally makes me feel nauseous when I see his number coming up on screen


The EA on this thread seems so nice. What happened to all the others?!!

Are there really solicitors who are well known in the business for holding up conveyancing? It was suggested above by 'Ask the EA'. What would be the benefit to them in doing that?

Hi Hazydays

Regarding your last question I can only guess that solicitors are acting on behalf of their clients - if they're asked to stall for whatever reason, they will. Now in my experience some solicitors are just absolutely rubbish - the first guy I got was so bad I wondered how he even passed his junior cert, let alone law exams. He knew so little, was very lazy and by the time I realised this it would have been too awkward to back out and find someone else. Not to mention expensive!

As for EAs, I hear ya! The one on here seems lovely and actually we were looking at another house in another area and bidding on it with the nicest EA. So courteous and polite. In the end we just couldn't afford the house which is a shame coz I'd love for them to have got the commission, they were so pleasant to deal with (even though they were the bearer of bad news lol)

Askthe EA

Hazydays123 wrote: »

Carrotcrunch wrote: »

They still haven't gone sale agreed with us, despite the EA calling frequently to bark orders down the phone to us.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one dealing with an EA who literally makes me feel nauseous when I see his number coming up on screen

The EA on this thread seems so nice. What happened to all the others?!!

Are there really solicitors who are well known in the business for holding up conveyancing? It was suggested above by 'Ask the EA'. What would be the benefit to them in doing that?

Oh yeah, and engineers too. One guy in my area is ridiculously strict on property surveys. I once had an buyer pull out on the back of a disastrous report. My client freaked out and paid for their own report on my advice. It sailed through. I gave it to the buyer. They got another engineer and he too passed it. Sale agreed. Sale closed and they're delighted in their new home.

Askthe EA

Hazydays123 wrote: »

Carrotcrunch wrote: »

They still haven't gone sale agreed with us, despite the EA calling frequently to bark orders down the phone to us.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one dealing with an EA who literally makes me feel nauseous when I see his number coming up on screen

The EA on this thread seems so nice. What happened to all the others?!!

Are there really solicitors who are well known in the business for holding up conveyancing? It was suggested above by 'Ask the EA'. What would be the benefit to them in doing that?

There's no benefit. They're slow because they're understaffed. They're slow because conveyancing is normally a side job with small fees compared to say, litigation. It's not a priority for them. You're probably better off with a large firm as they will have the support staff.

To give an example, a colleague of mine had a sale close in 2 weeks from sale agreed. Admittedly, the vendors solicitor already had the deeds and precontract enquiries sorted as the property had been previously sale agreed and the purchaser sat on their solicitor. It can be done.

Hazydays123

Askthe EA wrote: »

Hazydays123 wrote: »

Oh yeah, and engineers too. One guy in my area is ridiculously strict on property surveys. I once had an buyer pull out on the back of a disastrous report. My client freaked out and paid for their own report on my advice. It sailed through. I gave it to the buyer. They got another engineer and he too passed it.

One of the first things I asked my surveyor was how many times he has actually told a purchaser to pull out in light of the survey. I don't necessarily want an optimistic surveyor who tries to find the silver lining in everything, including a pyrite-ridden property

I think it also depends on the purchaser. A surveyor might look at an elderly couple who want an easy downsize property and advise them against buying a property which is structurally sound, but more befitting of a young couple who could do a lot of upgrading work.

Hazydays123

@ Ask the EA, is there such a thing as a service offered by an independent EA where you could get them to look at the price you're about to pay for a property in light of the survey, etc. and advise you as to whether you've exceeded the market price?

I feel i'm in the market for such a thing right now-nerves are shattered!

Askthe EA

Hazydays123 wrote: »

Askthe EA wrote: »

One of the first things I asked my surveyor was how many times he has actually told a purchaser to pull out in light of the survey. I don't necessarily want an optimistic surveyor who tries to find the silver lining in everything, including a pyrite-ridden property

I think it also depends on the purchaser. A surveyor might look at an elderly couple who want an easy downsize property and advise them against buying a property which is structurally sound, but more befitting of a young couple who could do a lot of upgrading work.

That's not really his decision to make though. He is paid to give an inspection report, note any issues and give an idea of costs to rectify to allow his client to make an informed decision.

Askthe EA

Hazydays123 wrote: »

@ Ask the EA, is there such a thing as a service offered by an independent EA where you could get them to look at the price you're about to pay for a property in light of the survey, etc. and advise you as to whether you've exceeded the market price?

I feel i'm in the market for such a thing right now-nerves are shattered!

Oh for sure but we're not cheap. You could engage an EA to handle the whole negotiation for you and they'd probably charge you a percentage of the sale price.

Having said that, bear in mind your bank will probably request an independent valuation anyway. They won't sign off on a sale price far in excess of the market rent.

Have you looked on the property price register?

Hazydays123

Askthe EA wrote: »

Oh for sure but we're not cheap. You could engage an EA to handle the whole negotiation for you and they'd probably charge you a percentage of the sale price.

Having said that, bear in mind your bank will probably request an independent valuation anyway. They won't sign off on a sale price far in excess of the market rent.

Have you looked on the property price register?

I tried to do the 'Euro per square foot' calculation based off of the property price register for the area but often they don't state the square footage of properties that have already sold.

Equally if you try to work out the same value on similar properties that are currently on the market, you have no idea if the asking price correlates with what the property will actually achieve.

Then the variables come in- extent of renovation needed, sub-location within a suburb etc.

At this point I'm only going on the gut reaction I have towards the property because I can't find a better way of working it out

I'd love to be able to pay an EA to do a cursory glance over the whole thing and reassure me. Equally I get that that's wishful thinking and I'll just have to take that risk.

Askthe EA

Hazydays123 wrote: »

I tried to do the 'Euro per square foot' calculation based off of the property price register for the area but often they don't state the square footage of properties that have already sold.

Equally if you try to work out the same value on similar properties that are currently on the market, you have no idea if the asking price correlates with what the property will actually achieve.

Then the variables come in- extent of renovation needed, sub-location within a suburb etc.

At this point I'm only going on the gut reaction I have towards the property because I can't find a better way of working it out

I'd love to be able to pay an EA to do a cursory glance over the whole thing and reassure me. Equally I get that that's wishful thinking and I'll just have to take that risk.

I guess that's why we're the pros ;-)

Hazydays123

Askthe EA wrote: »

I guess that's why we're the pros ;-)

Should I be taking this to a PM recommendation at this point?! Everybody has their price!

Askthe EA

Hazydays123 wrote: »

Should I be taking this to a PM recommendation at this point?! Everybody has their price!

Unless you're in my area, I really wouldn't know much better than u but if you wish bang me a pm with a general location and if I think I can help I'll let u know.

uberwolf

"Askthe wrote:

Having said that, bear in mind your bank will probably request an independent valuation anyway. They won't sign off on a sale price far in excess of the market rent.

Have you looked on the property price register?

Have you ever seen the independent valuation come in below the agreed sale price?

Hazydays123

uberwolf wrote: »

Have you ever seen the independent valuation come in below the agreed sale price?

This is my thought exactly! Was anybody in the Celtic Tiger era ever told that their property was overvalued?! And what are the consequences now.

I totally get that value is subjective and based on what a purchaser is willing to pay....but still..the bank is supposed to hedge their bets just as much as you.

Rew

uberwolf wrote: »

Have you ever seen the independent valuation come in below the agreed sale price?

There have been s few threads here where it's happened in the last 6 months.