Property Market 2016

Askthe EA

Rew wrote: »

There have been s few threads here where it's happened in the last 6 months.

Yes, I did one myself only recently. A cash buyer had pushed up the bids well beyond the market value and then some.

PhoenixParker

Askthe EA wrote: »

Yes, I did one myself only recently. A cash buyer had pushed up the bids well beyond the market value and then some.

In contrast, we had an independent valuation from an estate agent as part of our mortgage process.

The initial valuation came in for the correct amount, except the description of the property had the wrong number of bedrooms (1 fewer then the correct amount) and had us listed as the wrong house type, wrong number of bathrooms and wrong number of floors. It was clearly a poorly executed cut and paste job.

They amended the valuation to give the correct house details while leaving the actual valuation exactly the same. Not exactly a rigorous process.

Hazydays123

Can you ask to view the bank's valuation or is it for their eyes only?

uberwolf

Hazydays123 wrote: »

Can you ask to view the bank's valuation or is it for their eyes only?

I saw the one done on mine.

SarahMollie

Hazydays123 wrote: »

Can you ask to view the bank's valuation or is it for their eyes only?

Presume so, you're the one paying for it.

I don't recall seeing mine, but I think all I wanted to know was if it was going to cause a problem or not.

Hazydays123

SarahMollie wrote: »

Presume so, you're the one paying for it.

I don't recall seeing mine, but I think all I wanted to know was if it was going to cause a problem or not.

My bank paid for it themselves.

Askthe EA

SarahMollie wrote: »

Presume so, you're the one paying for it.

I don't recall seeing mine, but I think all I wanted to know was if it was going to cause a problem or not.

Yes depends who is paying me. If the bank is paying it goes to them as it is their property. If you pay me, I send a copy to you both.

Sleepy

We're with Ulster who pay for the appraisal themselves and we were issued a copy of it with our loan pack. TBH, it didn't have much in it and I wasn't particularly impressed with his determination of the age of the house. He gave a year in the late 1800's when it's clear the properties don't exist on the OSI maps until the 1900's and the council estimate the estate having been built in the 1920's... I got better answers on this after half an hour on google than the "professional" so extremely large dose of salt required with them!

The_Conductor

Hazydays123 wrote: »

Can you ask to view the bank's valuation or is it for their eyes only?

Bank of Ireland gave me a copy of their appraisal.
It would appear that its not entirely consistent for them to do so- but there is absolutely no reason you wouldn't be given a copy if you asked.

UsBus

Interesting auction results in Galway city today. Out of 12 lots only 5 sold. I think 2 were postponed before but a couple didn't reach reserve, while the rest were either withdrawn (not reaching the amv I think) or did not sell...
I think the market is risky at the moment, could go either way in the next few months.....

Hazydays123

UsBus wrote: »

Interesting auction results in Galway city today. Out of 12 lots only 5 sold. I think 2 were postponed before but a couple didn't reach reserve, while the rest were either withdrawn (not reaching the amv I think) or did not sell...
I think the market is risky at the moment, could go either way in the next few months.....

What do you feel is creating a 'risky' market?

I don't feel that this new Government housing scheme is making any odds to a lot of people like myself who are mortgage approved and on the market right now.

El_Dangeroso

UsBus wrote: »

Interesting auction results in Galway city today. Out of 12 lots only 5 sold. I think 2 were postponed before but a couple didn't reach reserve, while the rest were either withdrawn (not reaching the amv I think) or did not sell...
I think the market is risky at the moment, could go either way in the next few months.....

Some of the AMVs (which I always think are in and around reserve) were optimistic to put it mildly. Not really surprised they didn't sell considering the people willing to bid at auction are a subset of the potential buyers.

O'Donnellan and Joyce auction tomorrow will be interesting, there's a couple of high-ticket items in the city, but also lots of regional dross that I doubt there's much demand for.

The_Conductor

UsBus wrote: »

I think the market is risky at the moment, could go either way in the next few months.....

A lot of people are saying that its going to be pretty dead until at least after the budget in October- when there is clarity on what on earth Minister Coveney is doing for the sector. If, as he has promised, there are measures to speed deliver 50,000 houses, predominantly to the Dublin market (with smaller numbers for Cork and Waterford- Galway unfortunately doesn't feature on the list)- it could well be that some of the pent-up demand may be temporarily satiated- and indeed, there could be a commensurate quantity of houses released to the rental market from the prospective purchasers.

If the Minister announces measures which are going to knock over a third off building costs (as has been suggested this week)- it'll immediately set a new lower ceiling on property prices.

At the moment- the market is being driven by scarcity- as regardless of how bouyant it may appear to be- by and large- its still cheaper to buy a house, than it is to build one. This is an issue which was always going to have to be tackled- now that it appears we're to get more than lipservice recognising this issue- perhaps it may bring some 'normalisation' to the market (government meddling notwithstanding).

The_Conductor

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

O'Donnellan and Joyce auction tomorrow will be interesting, there's a couple of high-ticket items in the city, but also lots of regional dross that I doubt there's much demand for.

The prices in Galway never cease to amaze me- I appreciate that its a microcosm and extremely local in nature- but there are areas that'll give much of D2/D4 a run for their money. Even rundown properties in Salthill fetch eye watering prices.

Pop a post up tomorrow and let us know what transpires.

UsBus

Hazydays123 wrote: »

What do you feel is creating a 'risky' market?

I don't feel that this new Government housing scheme is making any odds to a lot of people like myself who are mortgage approved and on the market right now.

I think there are a few unknowns which have yet to play out, the outlook for the UK is not great, they seem to have acknowledged as much, however the government seems to be eternally optimistic about ireland's ability to avoid a downturn..
The central bank have held firm on their attitude to mortgage deposits so the government are piling in again to steer the market, they never seem to have a plan for all, not everyone is a FTB..
Stock Markets are riding very high at the moment also, possibly awaiting a correction after Brexit. I'm avoiding a lot of stocks for the time being. I just don't see Ireland avoiding some form of correction again, the panic usually starts in the property market when it's on the way.
I may very well be wrong but similar signs of uncertainty are there again.

Hazydays123

The_Conductor wrote: »

A lot of people are saying that its going to be pretty dead until at least after the budget in October- when there is clarity on what on earth Minister Coveney is doing for the sector. If, as he has promised, there are measures to speed deliver 50,000 houses, predominantly to the Dublin market (with smaller numbers for Cork and Waterford- Galway unfortunately doesn't feature on the list)- it could well be that some of the pent-up demand may be temporarily satiated- and indeed, there could be a commensurate quantity of houses released to the rental market from the prospective purchasers.

From what's hinted about this measure, you'll only be getting a 'bargain' house if you're willing to live in places like Adamstown ,etc.
I'm currently on the market (and sale agreed) and I know for a fact that I only want to buy second hand in a well-established, centrally located, well-serviced area of Dublin. You can't really put a price on that type of property.

I feel uneasy about the type of properties/areas that will result from this Government policy of 'build them cheap, stack them high'.

UsBus

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Some of the AMVs (which I always think are in and around reserve) were optimistic to put it mildly. Not really surprised they didn't sell considering the people willing to bid at auction are a subset of the potential buyers.

O'Donnellan and Joyce auction tomorrow will be interesting, there's a couple of high-ticket items in the city, but also lots of regional dross that I doubt there's much demand for.

Very true, there is always a level of interest on city lots, county properties regularly fail to reach reserve or AMV.

O'donnellan Joyce will be a more accurate reflection of the interest in the market.

I have heard rumours that there is still a number of bank sales at these auctions.
Given how difficult it is to secure a mortgage now, there must be a lot of cash buyers involved.

Villa05

UsBus wrote:

I think there are a few unknowns which have yet to play out, the outlook for the UK is not great, they seem to have acknowledged as much, however the government seems to be eternally optimistic about ireland's ability to avoid a downturn.. The central bank have held firm on their attitude to mortgage deposits so the government are piling in again to steer the market, they never seem to have a plan for all, not everyone is a FTB.. Stock Markets are riding very high at the moment also, possibly awaiting a correction after Brexit. I'm avoiding a lot of stocks for the time being. I just don't see Ireland avoiding some form of correction again, the panic usually starts in the property market when it's on the way. I may very well be wrong but similar signs of uncertainty are there again.

Brexit is going to be considerably worse for Ireland than the UK. Most of our employment is in SME. Many of these are UK focused and will suffer greatly, many have debt issues from the last collapse. Brexit may finish them off plus plunge the banks into kaos again

Just to show how clueless our politicians are, they go on an extended summer break while this threat hangs over the country.

Monife

The_Conductor wrote: »

its still cheaper to buy a house, than it is to build one.

Why is it that 20 years ago, a 3 bed semi-d in a decent area could be bought for £50,000, then sold for €325,000 10 years later and currently cost around €350,000. Even with inflation, deflation etc how have building costs increased so dramatically?

So now it costs 7 times more to buy an average house than it did 20 years ago however wages have not increased by 7 times!

yqtwqxqm

Monife wrote: »

Why is it that 20 years ago, a 3 bed semi-d in a decent area could be bought for £50,000, then sold for €325,000 10 years later and currently cost around €350,000. Even with inflation, deflation etc how have building costs increased so dramatically?

So now it costs 7 times more to buy an average house than it did 20 years ago however wages have not increased by 7 times!

Just a few reasons -
Everyone wants to by the same houses in the same areas.
Mostly dual income couples now competing with each other for those properties.
When you could get your £50,000 3 bed semi d there were a lot less dual incomes in the market. Average family income of those competing was lower than now, by a considerable margin.

air

Interest rates are lower nowadays which means we get to borrow more to ensure we work longer to compete with one another to buy the same houses.
On the bright side, the standard of build quality and materials used is vastly superior now to 30 years ago.
So you're getting a huge amount of extra insulation, superior windows, air tightness membranes, mechanical ventilation systems, solar panels etc. All these combined should make a modern home a much nicer place in which to live.

Monife

yqtwqxqm wrote: »

Just a few reasons -
Everyone wants to by the same houses in the same areas.
Mostly dual income couples now competing with each other for those properties.
When you could get your £50,000 3 bed semi d there were a lot less dual incomes in the market. Average family income of those competing was lower than now, by a considerable margin.

I take your first point but most dual incomes are not 7 times more than what single incomes were 20 years ago. For example, 20 years ago my mother was on approximately £25,000 and bought a house for £50,000, twice her annual salary, fair enough. My husband and I are on a dual income of €55,000 and a house in the same area my mum bought (Bray) is now €350,000! For further context, my mum earns about €37,000 now so even if her partner earned the same, that's only €74,000.

I still don't see how builders costs could have increased so dramatically in that time period. My inkling is that builders got used to boom time wages and will now settle for nothing less.

amacca

Maybe a small point but Don't forget all the extra rules, regulation, red tape etc

It was possible in the past to do most of your own house yourself if you got the site - that took some potential competition away from buyers that did not have this ability.

Now its much more difficult to put up your own house.......In the past if you were a handyman you could select the plans or give an idea of what you wanted to a draughtsman apply for planning permission and away you go up to and including wiring the place yourself.

Everybody gets a piece nowadays and theres a rule, regulation and specialist for every part of the build sapping more and more money in order to get a build completed.

Villa05

amacca wrote:

Everybody gets a piece nowadays and theres a rule, regulation and specialist for every part of the build sapping more and more money in order to get a build completed.

And we still have a sh*t product at the end of it

In northern ireland it costs 500 to certify a house and is done by an independent body

yqtwqxqm

Monife wrote: »

I take your first point but most dual incomes are not 7 times more than what single incomes were 20 years ago. For example, 20 years ago my mother was on approximately £25,000 and bought a house for £50,000, twice her annual salary, fair enough. My husband and I are on a dual income of €55,000 and a house in the same area my mum bought (Bray) is now €350,000! For further context, my mum earns about €37,000 now so even if her partner earned the same, that's only €74,000.

I still don't see how builders costs could have increased so dramatically in that time period. My inkling is that builders got used to boom time wages and will now settle for nothing less.

People have huge amounts of money to spend now and builders will take it. The government will take it too in taxes and all sorts of ridiculous levies and charges.

Your mum and her partners €74,000 is now in competition with couples with a combined incomes of over €100k nowadays. No way can she compete with that for a limited supply of houses on the market.
Bray has also grown hugely in the last 20 years. The Dart back in the day, made it the first commuter down outside Dublin county, with the corresponding increases in demand, growth and then prices. The Dart was slow to effect Bray when it came on stream, but after a few years the popuation and demand for Bray really took off.

The_Conductor

Monife wrote: »

I still don't see how builders costs could have increased so dramatically in that time period. My inkling is that builders got used to boom time wages and will now settle for nothing less.

The going rate for a brick layer is currently double what a pediatric surgeon gets in Temple Street. It was even higher........ So yup- you've got it in a nutshell.

Tristram

The_Conductor wrote: »

The going rate for a brick layer is currently double what a pediatric surgeon gets in Temple Street. It was even higher........ So yup- you've got it in a nutshell.

Is that right? The site linked below shows pay rates.

Bricklayer €14.52 per hour

yqtwqxqm

The_Conductor wrote: »

The going rate for a brick layer is currently double what a pediatric surgeon gets in Temple Street. It was even higher........ So yup- you've got it in a nutshell.

I had a brickie build me a shed (6M x 5M) about a month ago. Its in Bray, so Dublin rates.
Himself and his labourer took 2 days and charged me €500 between them.
They worked from morning until dark both nights.
I would say I would have paid a surgeon a lot more

The_Conductor

yqtwqxqm wrote: »

I had a brickie build me a shed (6M x 5M) about a month ago. Its in Bray, so Dublin rates.
Himself and his labourer took 2 days and charged me €500 between them.
They worked from morning until dark both nights.
I would say I would have paid a surgeon a lot more

Cash into their hands- and they worked a regular day- not a 16 hour day?
When you actually sit down and enumerate things- it gets very hairy, very quickly.......... (My sis is an SHO in Temple Street)

yqtwqxqm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Cash into their hands- and they worked a regular day- not a 16 hour day?
When you actually sit down and enumerate things- it gets very hairy, very quickly.......... (My sis is an SHO in Temple Street)

That price was including vat. My own company paid it, so definitely needed to be all above board or i cant expense it.
They started at 9:30am and worked til 9pm and took about 1 hours lunch, so about 10.5 hours a day.
Both days there were heavy rain showers so they sat in their van for at least an hour both days. I imagine theyd have been finished much earlier the second day if it hadnt have rained so hard both days.

Dont know how the brickie paid his mate, but i paid the brickie €420 plus vat if you want it in vat terms.

How much does the surgeon in Temple street get paid per day?