Property Market 2016

Rew

CSO is out

Dublin down -1% for houses and -0.5% for apartments
Rest of the country up by 0.5%

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/rppi/residentialpropertypriceindexjune2016/

Rew

also they are replacing the residential index in Sept

CSO wrote:

NEW Residential Property Price Index: The CSO will launch a new Residential Property Price Index (RPPI) for Ireland in early September 2016. The new index will replace the existing monthly RPPI.

The new RPPI will be based on Stamp Duty returns made to the Revenue Commissioners matched with other administrative data. It will now cover all market purchases of houses and apartments by households, both cash and mortgage-based transactions.

The new RPPI represents a significant methodological improvement over the existing RPPI (based on mortgage data from the credit institutions) as it includes cash purchases, higher quality source data and more detailed locational characteristics in the price model.

(http://www.cso.ie/en/surveysandmethodology/prices/) provides further detail on the new Residential Property Price Index.

Bob24

Rew wrote: »

also they are replacing the residential index in Sept

It seems like an improvement, but I hope they will provide tools to help monitoring the long term trends (i.e. ways to connect figures from the old index to figures from the new one).

Bob24

Rew wrote: »

CSO is out

Dublin down -1% for houses and -0.5% for apartments
Rest of the country up by 0.5%

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/rppi/residentialpropertypriceindexjune2016/

Does it not say 1.2% MoM increase for Dublin apartments? (though given how volatile prices are I think 12 months figures are more worth a look)

bleary

Bob24 wrote: »

It seems like an improvement, but I hope they will provide tools to help monitoring the long term trends (i.e. ways to connect figures from the old index to figures from the new one).

Looks like it will
http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/surveysandmethodologies/documents/pdfdocs/RPPIInfonotice.pdf
Revisions
The new RPPI will involve revisions to the existing series back to January 2010, the date from which Stamp Duty
returns are available with improved quality and timeliness.
Statistical outputs
The new RPPI will continue to provide the range of indices currently published for the existing RPPI. In addition,
new regional and Dublin area price indices will be published along with an extensive range of additional
indicators, covering specifically the volumes, values and average prices of the transactions.
Launch timetable
The CSO will launch the new RPPI at a press conference in early September 2016 and will publish the new
RPPI on the CSO website on the same date. The launch will be accompanied by a technical paper detailing the
methodology for the new index. The CSO will also organise a technical seminar on housing statistics, including
the new RPPI, in early October

Rew

Bob24 wrote: »

Does it not say 1.2% MoM increase for Dublin apartments? (though given how volatile prices are I think 12 months figures are more worth a look)

I never look at the MoM figures to be honest

Bob24

Rew wrote: »

I never look at the MoM figures to be honest

OK, I can see you were referencing to the comments attached to the index (which for Dublin houses is MoM) and I was actually looking at the tables underneath with the figures.

I can't reconciliate their apartment comment to table 8 though.

They indeed mention "Dublin apartment prices were 0.5% lower when compared with the same month of 2015", but the YoY figure at the bottom of table 8 says +0.5%. It looks like they made a mistake in their write-up.

yqtwqxqm

Apartments are definitely going up. And selling faster too. Ive been monitoring them myself for the last couple of years.

The_Conductor

yqtwqxqm wrote: »

Apartments are definitely going up. And selling faster too. Ive been monitoring them myself for the last couple of years.

Its very location dependent though.
If you look at West Dublin for example- they've dived in the last 6 months (you can confirm by looking at some of the larger developments- and checking prices achieved on propertypriceregister.ie)

They may be up in some parts of the country- its not consistent though- in other parts the recovery in prices has spluttered and died.

Bob24

The_Conductor wrote: »

yqtwqxqm wrote: »

Apartments are definitely going up. And selling faster too. Ive been monitoring them myself for the last couple of years.

Its very location dependent though.
If you look at West Dublin for example- they've dived in the last 6 months (you can confirm by looking at some of the larger developments- and checking prices achieved on propertypriceregister.ie)

They may be up in some parts of the country- its not consistent though- in other parts the recovery in prices has spluttered and died.

I would definilty agree with that analysis. If you look at the CSO index, Dublin apartments price have been stagnating over the past year. But this is an average and depending on the area things could be very different (if the other poster has been monitoring apartments in the city center or postcodes just south of the center for example, they are probably right in saying they are selling fast enough and
prices are increasing).

yqtwqxqm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Its very location dependent though.
If you look at West Dublin for example- they've dived in the last 6 months (you can confirm by looking at some of the larger developments- and checking prices achieved on propertypriceregister.ie)

They may be up in some parts of the country- its not consistent though- in other parts the recovery in prices has spluttered and died.

Ive been looking at Dublin North and City center.
I reckon the CB rules will have the commuter belt catching Dublin and radiating out slowly until all those who were stopped in their tracks are back in the saddle again after a bit of saving of deposits and then Dublin will take off again.

Villa05

yqtwqxqm wrote:

Ive been looking at Dublin North and City center. I reckon the CB rules will have the commuter belt catching Dublin and radiating out slowly until all those who were stopped in their tracks are back in the saddle again after a bit of saving of deposits and then Dublin will take off again.

The CB rules on income multiples will keep prices stable, sure premium areas might be an exception both on the + and - depending on the economy.

The_Conductor

machine_driver wrote: »

interesting reading in that CSO report , property in dublin is still 35% below peak , the surprising thing for me is that outside dublin is also exactly 35% below peak , this suggests to me that either dublin is relatively cheap or outside dublin is grossly expensive , dublins economy is much bigger than in early 2007 , outside dublin is much weaker economically than back then

It simply means that the percentage recovery in property prices in Dublin and the rest of the country- are now at the same percentage. It doesn't mean property outside of Dublin is now valued at the same as property inside Dublin.

Vis-a-vis Dublin prices- they're actually falling again (and have been yo-yo'ing for the last 18 months)- month on month the recovery price in Dublin fell 0.1 from its Q4 2005 peak (set at 100)- whereas property prices outside Dublin- are continuing to recover on their peak prices.

I don't actually believe its the Central Bank rules- Dublin prices and their trends had diverged from prices outside of Dublin long before the CB rules came in. If anything- the CB rules may add some stability to Dublin prices- which are only holding their current levels, because of scarcity of supply- no other reason.

The new index sounds like a good idea- however, there is no reason it couldn't have been done a lot sooner- by leveraging the data which goes into the Property Price Register- its been out there for quite some time- yet the new index is being heralded as a new beginning- when many among us were doing our own background work in the shade.

The new index will suffer from the same delays as the Property Price Register- that is- it is at the gift of solicitors when to notify the transaction (sure, they're supposed to do so within 28 days of the sale closing- however, as often as not, they don't.)

Bringing cash sales into the mix- when cash sales currently comprise just over 60% of the market- is long overdue- and if anything- is serves to highlight the inadequacies of the data that they've been feeding us thus far.........

Carrotcrunch

Carrotcrunch wrote: »

Ok, I get you. I remember being told upon buying, that the common areas would be transferred to the owners and that was good enough for me...never followed it up though.

Here's the full story - case is now closed and we're furious. Was going to send this to the owners - what do you think?

"We have been liaising with your estate agent (name) with regard to the sale of your property at (address).
We just wanted to make absolutely sure you had the full picture at this point in selling your home. We went to view the house back in May and we felt it was a gorgeous home for us to start our life and our family together. We put our apartment on the market, and in the beginning of June, we went sale agreed ourselves to ensure we would have the funds to match the asking price of (address). EA phoned us regularly, applying untold pressure to get things moving, which actually, we understood. When you want to sell, you want to sell. Having offered 5K over the other bidders and 10K over the asking price, we were disappointed but not surprised when our bid was refused as a quick sale was the end goal.
When this ultimately fell through and the house came back on the market at the end of June, we were happy to be contacted by EA and we went to visit the house a second time. We dropped our offer to match what was previously acceptable to you to go sale agreed.
EA told us the first time that an extra 5K did not make a difference to you when it came to a quick sale – and that is what we were after. We have a solicitor, the bank sent our deeds, we managed to get the relative paperwork from our management agency (despite a change of hands at that exact time) and we were still very much interested in buying (address).
EA called us regularly, called our solicitor – she knew the story and last week as we were leaving to go on holiday, she told us a decision would be made that week. We had done everything asked of us since May – and we matched the amount with the other bidder. She came back to us and said she could not go back to you with the same offer, which we didn’t understand.
XXXK with a first time buyer who has an approval in principle or XXXK with us, mortgage approved and wanting to close ASAP. This was Thursday, our buyers signed on Friday. So we raised it by another 1K.
We got off the plane to be told via email that EA's clients (you) had decided to go with the other buyer. Back in June, EA said 5K didn’t make a difference to you – it made a huge difference to us.
I understand business is business but we’re not sure you know all the facts for this sale. We don’t believe all the relative information was actually passed on. If it was, none of this is news to you and we wish you all the best with the sale but we feel like in the end a very personal decision was made against us, for reasons we don’t understand." ENDS

I am just so cross, we feel it was a spiteful, personal decision.

The_Conductor

Send it to them by all means.
It would be nice if prospective purchasers laid the cards out on the table with sellers like this a little more often- there are numerous estate agents who deserve to have their knuckles serious rapped for some of the crap they carry on.

trobbin

Was looking at houses in Dublin and seen this

http://www.property.ie/property-for-sale/97-Snowdrop-Walk-Darndale-Coolock-Dublin-17/1285821/

I think we've surpassed boom prices of 2007. Well, at least in this area and particularly this road.

The_Conductor

trobbin wrote: »

Was looking at houses in Dublin and seen this

http://www.property.ie/property-for-sale/97-Snowdrop-Walk-Darndale-Coolock-Dublin-17/1285821/

I think we've surpassed boom prices of 2007. Well, at least in this area and particularly this road.

They've gone for this and more- in Darndale in boomtimes.
Re: the photos- the pic of the front of the house implies it is not- as stated- an end of terrace house- however, the pictures of the rear garden tell a different story. It looks like they have the front of one house, and the rear of another. If you can get over the fact that its Darndale, and all the connotations that living in Darndale brings- its actually not a bad house- however, location is everything- I wouldn't like to try to bring children up in the area- and I can only imagine how many prospective job applicants don't get responses, when the prospective employer sees the address (speaking as someone who has friends living in the area).

I agree though- given the area- it is quite a remarkable price for the property- wholly irrespective of how nicely it is presented internally.

trobbin

The_Conductor wrote: »

They've gone for this and more- in Darndale in boomtimes.
Re: the photos- the pic of the front of the house implies it is not- as stated- an end of terrace house- however, the pictures of the rear garden tell a different story. It looks like they have the front of one house, and the rear of another. If you can get over the fact that its Darndale, and all the connotations that living in Darndale brings- its actually not a bad house- however, location is everything- I wouldn't like to try to bring children up in the area- and I can only imagine how many prospective job applicants don't get responses, when the prospective employer sees the address (speaking as someone who has friends living in the area).

I agree though- given the area- it is quite a remarkable price for the property- wholly irrespective of how nicely it is presented internally.

Some houses have fetched more in the boom. But I know the area well, and there's actually better parts (almost a different world) but this particular part is literally the worst. Plus, any house that demanded that type of price, (in this area) in the boom, had lots of work done.
http://www.daft.ie/price-register/dublin/darndale/snowdrop-walk/

Now have a look at that link. House two doors away went for over 200% less in 2013. Consider the house that sold in 2013 actually has a big side garden and a side entrance.

Monife

A friend bought an end of terrace house on Belcamp lane (adjacent to Darndale) during the boom time for €330,000.... Not even worth half that now.

trobbin

Monife wrote: »

A friend bought an end of terrace house on Belcamp lane (adjacent to Darndale) during the boom time for €330,000.... Not even worth half that now.

Belcamp lane are private houses on the malahide road. Can't really compare to corporation houses in Darndale. Although it is close. Plus, Belcamp lane has had a halting site appear right beside it, which will also bring your friends price down.

Monife

trobbin wrote: »

Belcamp lane are private houses on the malahide road. Can't really compare to corporation houses in Darndale. Although it is close. Plus, Belcamp lane has had a halting site appear right beside it, which will also bring your friends price down.

I know they are private but they are practically beside Darndale, that was my point.

fret_wimp2

riclad wrote: »

Theres a good article in the irish times ,
it says government wants to keep house prices high.
Irish building companys own lots of land ,which they grossly overpaid for

Im sure its been asked before but why is'nt there a tax on zoned land not being used?

You have land in Dublin, its zoned for residential but you sit on it for years and years waiting for the price to go up? I can see why construction firms would sit on it if they can afford it, but if the government want to interfere, shouldnt taxing this be a better solution than raising what FTB'ers can get from the bank?

Is it a case of very very visible corruption or is there a genuine reason unused zoned land isnt taxed ?

Villa05

fret_wimp2 wrote:

Is it a case of very very visible corruption or is there a genuine reason unused zoned land isnt taxed ?

Corruption might be a strong word. Let's call it politicians looking after influential people to the detriment of the common good. It goes on in almost every area where politicians are involved.

We are still a backward country

mel123

If a house is on myhome, its only there a week/two max. I rang to see if i can view it, and got told its 'under offer'.
Is this normal? As in, would the estate agent not still be showing it to interested parties to see if they can get more money?

whiskeyman

mel123 wrote: »

If a house is on myhome, its only there a week/two max. I rang to see if i can view it, and got told its 'under offer'.
Is this normal? As in, would the estate agent not still be showing it to interested parties to see if they can get more money?

There's a few houses on myhome that are sale agreed when I called them up.
I guess some deals move very quick depending on the property.
It's not always a case of 'more money' but sometimes a requirement for a quick sale... especially if a cash buyer has come into play.

Rew

mel123 wrote: »

If a house is on myhome, its only there a week/two max. I rang to see if i can view it, and got told its 'under offer'.
Is this normal? As in, would the estate agent not still be showing it to interested parties to see if they can get more money?

Vendor may want it sold more then they want more money

PokeHerKing

Villa05 wrote:

We are still a backward country

Every country in the world suffers from light/moderate/severe political/corporate corruption. It's human nature.

Villa05

PokeHerKing wrote:

Every country in the world suffers from light/moderate/severe political/corporate corruption. It's human nature.

Many of those countries have enforceable penalties to deter it though

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

trobbin

mel123 wrote: »

If a house is on myhome, its only there a week/two max. I rang to see if i can view it, and got told its 'under offer'.
Is this normal? As in, would the estate agent not still be showing it to interested parties to see if they can get more money?

It is quite normal. I've been told the same thing many times, plus, asking futher questions seems to ennoy them, and also vague answers, almost as if they really don't want the add up, but legally have too.

I've heard of estate agents indulging in rouge practices for people whom they know personally. It's hard buying a house in Ireland. Loads of overpriced ****e for sale.