Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note Post #2331

nullzero

DM_7 wrote: »

Hughes wouldn't set United up to be so negative. Neither would Giggs. I don't think Alan Pardew would, Sanchez Flores, Ranieri, Koeman, Pochettino, Martinez, i could go on...

Thats what will cost van Gaal in the end. His set up and ideas are too cautious in this league.

The players he brought in, clearing out the squad and his basic idea of better use of possession were right for United when they needed a new manager. But United needed more quality in attack to make his ideas work. So he should have simplified his plans this season like he did last season. He was too ruthless clearing out players without replacements ready (either trained up within or bought).

It must be too late to change now, the players look like all confidence and inspiration is gone. They look afraid to take responsibility in case it doesn't work and are not even looking for openings when attacking.

A lot of these problems are related to the fact that he believes his way of playing the game is a philosophy, a rigid framework that cannot be deviated from at any time. Everyone else can see his philosophy doesn't fit in the Premier League even though it has been successful at other large clubs. If LVG was able to change his approach to the game he wouldn't be in this situation. His and by extension Uniteds main problem is the unwillingness or rather inability to change. He did a decent job last season to push us in the right direction but he has hit a wall and it is now the time to sadly part ways. Maybe we projected qualities onto him that he never really possessed hoping that his profile alone would bring success back to the club, an idea that puts the idea of hiring the biggest name available to manage the club into stark perspective. There are no silver bullets for the situation we're in, our squad cannot be turned into champions over night, hence the perennially savvy Pep guardiola is headed to City to take up that particular "challenge". The United job is a poison chalice for any manager right now, we have the money to compete in the transfer market but the big names consistently turn us down and move to our rivals. We can't stick with manager who has lost the dressing room but realistically we won't solve our problems with a new manager, they run much deeper than that.

yabadabado

Alex Meier wrote: »

Andy Mitten stated it the other day on Newstalk

so just speculation ?

I presumed there was something concrete considering the amount of times you have posted it.

Alex Meier

bucketybuck wrote: »

Isn't it strange that on the same board you will hear Moyes criticised for failing with "the champions" and Van Gaal praised for "clearing out the deadwood".

Were they the champions or were they just deadwood?

Van Gaal has brought in more deadwood (£250m spent) than he was left to clear by Moyes

Alex Meier

yabadabado wrote: »

so just speculation ?

I presumed there was something concrete considering the amount of times you have posted it.

Mitten is very close to the club and has excellent contacts

I believe him

DM_7

nullzero wrote: »

A lot of these problems are related to the fact that he believes his way of playing the game is a philosophy, a rigid framework that cannot be deviated from at any time. Everyone else can see his philosophy doesn't fit in the Premier League even though it has been successful at other large clubs. If LVG was able to change his approach to the game he wouldn't be in this situation. His and by extension Uniteds main problem is the unwillingness or rather inability to change. He did a decent job last season to push us in the right direction but he has hit a wall and it is now the time to sadly part ways. Maybe we projected qualities onto him that he never really possessed hoping that his profile alone would bring success back to the club, an idea that puts the idea of hiring the biggest name available to manage the club into stark perspective. There are no silver bullets for the situation we're in, our squad cannot be turned into champions over night, hence the perennially savvy Pep guardiola is headed to City to take up that particular "challenge". The United job is a poison chalice for any manager right now, we have the money to compete in the transfer market but the big names consistently turn us down and move to our rivals. We can't stick with manager who has lost the dressing room but realistically we won't solve our problems with a new manager, they run much deeper than that.

The problems at United are really not that great overall. Within the context of the premier league at least it wouldn't take a whole lot to get in the key champions league spots where they were last season or this before the injuries.

As seen with Chelsea last season Champions don't have to be amazing if they keep key players fit and start well. United even did that with one good year from van Persie.

Sure, in European football it will take time to catch. In the Premier League the current squad with a couple of January additions could do well with a positive approach.

StringerBell

I'm just dreading the worst possible way for me to see a new year start with United, Ryan Giggs agonising over not picking his mates again

I don't mind talk of Van Gaal getting the bullet, results dictate these things from a practical point of view, but there has got to be an alternative in mind. With so much of the season to go sticking Giggs in there has surely got to be a non option from any reasonable member of the upper management structure at the club. Gambling CL qualification on him versus gambling it on Van Gaal? Neither option may seem very appealing right now to them but surely one is worse then other (its Giggs btw)

If Van Gaal feels, and the club agree, that he can arrest this slide and part ways at the end of the season then so be it if the alternative is Giggs in my eyes!

If there is more to the plan then just, let Ryan take it for the rest of the season and "see how he gets on" when there is still plenty to play for I can get behind that.

Oh yeah, and a big lol to anybody who comes out with rubbish like I am sure we would be better off if we had stuck with Moyes, his football was just as septic, he started alright and was continuing on a downward spiral like a stone gathering no moss. It was clear he was not the right man for the job and the players were completely disillusioned with him, he was a laughing stock and the treatment he received from the media was shocking but he certainly had to go. It was never going to get much better under him, you could hear it in how he spoke, he never even took ownership of the club and players.

I dread to think where we would be with Moyes still in charge.

StringerBell

yabadabado wrote: »

so just speculation ?

I presumed there was something concrete considering the amount of times you have posted it.

Is it your first time seeing him post?

StringerBell

Alex Meier wrote: »

Van Gaal has brought in more deadwood (£250m spent) than he was left to clear by Moyes

Do up a comparison for me like a good lad, back up what you have said for a change.

No rush, I'll come back to you later on it, tomorrow maybe, and the next day etc

Alex Meier

StringerBell wrote: »

Is it your first time seeing him post?

Who are you?

Paul Tergat

FFS it's back

Alex Meier

StringerBell wrote: »

Do up a comparison for me like a good lad, back up what you have said for a change.

No rush, I'll come back to you later on it, tomorrow maybe, and the next day etc

Don't have to...it was on show at Stoke today

Warned you all about LVG.... I'm not getting the sarcastic comments anymore

StringerBell

Alex Meier wrote: »

Don't have to...it was on show at Stoke today

Warned you all about LVG.... I'm not getting the sarcastic comments anymore

Of course you don't have to, you don't ever have to back anything up ever. You also don't ever have to add anything of any value to the thread and you sure as **** have no problem with that either.

You somehow expect anybody to take you seriously, that is the puzzling part.

titan18

If our next 2 games were Sunderland and Villa, I'm not sure we'd beat them. We're that bad atm. LVG needs to be out today

Alex Meier

StringerBell wrote: »

Of course you don't have to, you don't ever have to back anything up ever. You also don't ever have to add anything of any value to the thread and you sure as **** have no problem with that either.

You somehow expect anybody to take you seriously, that is the puzzling part.

I don't take you seriously

StringerBell

IIRC Van Gaal offered his resignation once before to a club and they turned it down. Could you imagine the backlash if it came out that he speaks to Ed and offers his resignation only to be turned down

Seriously though gents, other then Jose who out there would people like to see in, right now, thats gettable?

What are the realistic alternatives at the moment if the manager is to be fired?

Hank Scorpio

Apparently it's 14 wins in 34 for LVG and 4 from the last 16 games. Writings on the wall, there's no inclination he's going to turn this around. I hope we get the right manager and don't rush into a decision

Mezcita

Alex Meier wrote: »

Mitten is very close to the club and has excellent contacts

I believe him

Feck that. More bullsh.it speculation from the press. It's relentless at this stage.

Unless Simeone actually said "I do not want to manage Manchester United" it's all just talk.

jharr100

Another former player Tom Cleverly scores !

StringerBell

Alex Meier wrote: »

I don't take you seriously

29 points is our lowest tally after 18 games so far in P.L. history.

2 points from 15 in the last 5 games which included fixtures against Norwich and Bournemouth and the toughest on paper against Leicester. After 18 months with the current regime and a few hundred million spent, this is just shíte.

The manager will get the chop and deserves it, but I hope some of these players get the bollocking they deserve too. It took 2-0 down before they started to even resemble top tier professional footballers today, disgraceful.

twinex

My mate is a long suffering Villa fan, E.M.P.A.T.H.Y. oh brother.....

Lord TSC

StringerBell wrote: »

Seriously though gents, other then Jose who out there would people like to see in, right now, thats gettable?

In terms of Tier One managers, I don't know if there is anyone else gettable; it being mid-season, most managers won't be moving.

bucketybuck

StringerBell wrote: »

football was just as septic, he started alright and was continuing on a downward spiral like a stone gathering no moss. It was clear he was not the right man for the job and the players were completely disillusioned with him, he was a laughing stock and the treatment he received from the media was shocking but he certainly had to go. It was never going to get much better under him, you could hear it in how he spoke, he never even took ownership of the club and players.

But enough about Van Gaal, what about Moyes?

twinex

Lord TSC wrote: »

In terms of Tier One managers, I don't know if there is anyone else gettable; it being mid-season, most managers won't be moving.

If only Klopp had stayed on his hols for a couple months more.....

yabadabado

StringerBell wrote: »

Is it your first time seeing him post?

unfortunately not.

StringerBell

Lord TSC wrote: »

In terms of Tier One managers, I don't know if there is anyone else gettable; it being mid-season, most managers won't be moving.

What would you like to see happen?

I really don't want Giggs to be on the touchline, if for nothing else he will have been on the staff of two consecutive management structures which have ultimately ended in failure.

I just don't see how we would be better off gambling on him.

Other then that though I am not sure I see much out there that will come on board at short notice.

This is the biggest problem I have with sacking managers mid season, barring some luck you are often left with very little choice in terms of replacements.

His position is very close to being untenable so its something I am having to give more and more thought to.

StringerBell

bucketybuck wrote: »

But enough about Van Gaal, what about Moyes?

Some very distinct differences between them which even you surely don't need pointing out to you as much as you love to good old sarcasm.

You were one of the ones that said we would be better off by now with Moyes actually weren't you, can you give a bit of detail to that, as you hate going off blind faith, you have pointed that out plenty so there must be something tangible bring you to that belief.

Did you want Moyes kept on at the time actually if you think we would be better off with him?

Alex Meier

yabadabado wrote: »

unfortunately not.

I'm here to talk about football re Man U

Don't be childish enough to get upset if I post something you disagree with

I knew LVG was the wrong man for united from my years of going to Germany to watch football.

It's unfortunate the amount of subtle bullying that is posted here

titan18

Lord TSC wrote: »

In terms of Tier One managers, I don't know if there is anyone else gettable; it being mid-season, most managers won't be moving.

Sure, we can hire Moyes again. Won't be worse at least, and can't be worse than leaving Giggs be manager.

In reality, it has to be Jose. We may not like it, but only person available who can fix this.

Lord TSC

StringerBell wrote: »

What would you like to see happen?

For me, it's all about Jose.

I've said before and will stick with this...had we got Jose instead of Moyes when Fergie left, I don't think we'd be in the situation we are now. Right, we might be the ones on the verge of a breakdown because Jose was having his usual third season, but we'd probably have won the league by now, which would have shown there was life after Fergie. But we didn't, we are about to sack a second unsuccessful manager. But amazingly, Jose is free. The timing couldn't be more perfect.

For me, I'd like to see LVG gone last week, Giggs take the Chelsea game (any manager coming in now won't take that game; no time to work with the squad, or even say hello), and then Jose appointed as the new manager. Jose knows the league, would probably be able to lure in a few big names, and would get us over the cup-less run we're on.

That one of the top managers in the world is available and probably eager to join is unbelievable luck imo. I know he comes with baggage and can appreciate why people have their reservation about him, but at this stage, we've dug ourselves into a whole, and we need to make a deal with the devil to get out.

EDIT: I'd agree on Giggs though; he'd be the nightmare scenario for me right now.

yabadabado

Alex Meier wrote: »

I'm here to talk about football re Man U

Don't be childish enough to get upset if I post something you disagree with

I knew LVG was the wrong man for united from my years of going to Germany to watch football.

It's unfortunate the amount of subtle bullying that is posted here

Good lad

I'm not upset with anything you have posted nor have I disagreed with you.You may want to go back and read what I posted before jumping to conclusions.

You keep mentioning Simeone turning down United previously but have yet to post any evidence of this I presumed you would/could considering the amount of times you have posted it over the last few days.

I know rugby is possibly a dirty word on this forum but the situation at Utd reminds me of the last few months of Declan Kidney being in charge of Ireland. There was something just fundamentally broken in the squad that couldn't be fixed until a new coach came in. I feel this is the case now with LvG, I don't think he can pull Utd out of this. He's so wedded to his philosophy, it's as if he doesn't know how to change things up and I've real questions as to whether the squad still backs him based on today.

bucketybuck

StringerBell wrote: »

You were one of the ones that said we would be better off by now with Moyes actually weren't you, can you give a bit of detail to that, as you hate going off blind faith, you have pointed that out plenty so there must be something tangible bring you to that belief.

Did you want Moyes kept on at the time actually if you think we would be better off with him?

Why not just read the post you are referencing?

That does not at all mean Moyes was right for us, but at this point he would have his own players in and some semblance of a gameplan, his performances and results would have improved to a point that Van Gaal simply isn't reaching.

StringerBell

Alex Meier wrote: »

I'm here to talk about football re Man U

Don't be childish enough to get upset if I post something you disagree with

I knew LVG was the wrong man for united from my years of going to Germany to watch football.

It's unfortunate the amount of subtle bullying that is posted here

Plenty of people, myself included shock horror! Had reservations about Van Gaal (particularly as a long term manager). You were certainly not alone.

Happily for me though he did not shag my mam or something so I don't have an irrational hatred of him.

Hococop

I get the feeling some would rather see the club sink into mediocrity for the next few years rather than let Jose manage

StringerBell

bucketybuck wrote: »

Why not just read the post you are referencing?

I have, and thats a blind faith argument. So what else have you got?

titan18

We could have Brendan Rodgers too I guess, or Lucien Favre. Both out of work atm and can't be worse. Bernd Schuster would continue the media battles and have us playing more attacking.

Slim pickings really.

StringerBell

Hococop wrote: »

I get the feeling some would rather see the club sink into mediocrity for the next few years rather than let Jose manage

Its not that for me, but I really really wish there was an alternative and there must be!

If Van Gaal goes any time soon though it looks like the stars aligning for Jose to be next up in hot seat.

The_Kew_Tour

What can I say.

Speechless after today. He is as good as gone be it I like it or not.

I have been in the keep him till May camp, but I be destroyed in argument about him too.

We beat Chelsea 1-0, goal by unlikely player and LVG turns into Fergie part 2, let me dream its Christmas

bucketybuck

StringerBell wrote: »

I have, and thats a blind faith argument. So what else have you got?

What are you even arguing against this time?

I said had Moyes still been in charge we would be doing better than we are presently under Van Gaal. Are we not on a worse run now than we were under Moyes? Is the Van Gaal results and stats not worse than they were under Moyes? Did post 424 not produce a handy illustration?

The point was never that I wanted Moyes or that Moyes did well, its that Van Gaal is even worse.

Korat

Fernando Dirty Smart-ass wrote: »

I know rugby is possibly a dirty word on this forum but the situation at Utd reminds me of the last few months of Declan Kidney being in charge of Ireland. There was something just fundamentally broken in the squad that couldn't be fixed until a new coach came in. I feel this is the case now with LvG, I don't think he can pull Utd out of this. He's so wedded to his philosophy, it's as if he doesn't know how to change things up and I've real questions as to whether the squad still backs him based on today.

It's more like when Rob Penney took over at Munster, excellent coach but he didn't play the Munster way and the fans lost patience with his passing the ball over and back seemingly going nowhere, when the team didn't hit the standards they were used to.

I hope we don't get an Anthony Foley next.

beno619

StringerBell wrote: »

I'm just dreading the worst possible way for me to see a new year start with United, Ryan Giggs agonising over not picking his mates again

I think this is a lazy argument and amounts to nothing more than scare mongering.

Were on relegation form , I could endure Giggs for a few games if that what it takes.

deaddonkey15

I think it has to be Jose, but I don't understand why some people are so against Giggs stepping in. I don't think it could get any worse, surely Giggs would have more of an attacking mentality and give the players more freedom to play their natural game? At the moment we can't defend, can't score, can't even create chances, can't control a game and can't even get a point from our recent and reasonably easy fixtures. Worst thing is we don't even look like becoming capable of doing these things and the players no longer look like they're interested in trying. Giggs could only improve that surely?

As a said, it just has to be Mourinho. He will win many more league titles and Champions League titles again in his career, just a question of with who. I for one would like it to be with United. I genuinely reckon Mourinho could still drag this squad to the title this season, or at least provide a top 4 finish.

Lord TSC

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I think it has to be Jose, but I don't understand why some people are so against Giggs stepping in. I don't think it could get any worse, surely Giggs would have more of an attacking mentality and give the players more freedom to play their natural game? At the moment we can't defend, can't score, can't even create chances, can't control a game and can't even get a point from our recent and reasonably easy fixtures. Worst thing is we don't even look like becoming capable of doing these things and the players no longer look like they're interested in trying. Giggs could only improve that surely?

We don't know. It's another risk.

So far, his backroom staff experience is working as the second to two failed managers. He has no experience working the transfer market.

We quite simply cannot afford another risk, especially one as big as giving a former player a debut as a manager. We need to make sure our next appointment is as risk-free as possible, and Giggs couldn't be further from that...

J. Marston

Alex Meier wrote: »

I'm here to talk about football re Man U

Don't be childish enough to get upset if I post something you disagree with

I knew LVG was the wrong man for united from my years of going to Germany to watch football.

It's unfortunate the amount of subtle bullying that is posted here

Spare me. You're in the United thread and spouting 99% bullshít and then crying "Bullying!" when people argue back against that bullshít. Don't be mad that the 1% sense that you do speak is actually overlooked.

RobertKK

StringerBell wrote: »

IIRC Van Gaal offered his resignation once before to a club and they turned it down. Could you imagine the backlash if it came out that he speaks to Ed and offers his resignation only to be turned down

Seriously though gents, other then Jose who out there would people like to see in, right now, thats gettable?

What are the realistic alternatives at the moment if the manager is to be fired?

Well he talked about the pressure building and building, then I see a photo of him when he joined United and he looks to have aged a lot, I think he could tell Ed that he is out of ideas, he doesn't need this pressure at this time in his life and he is handing in his resignation.
Surely Ed won't refuse...

An alternative to Jose, no one I can think of, he did get sacked at an opportune time.

Korat

Ancelotti doesn't start at Bayern until the summer...

Nalz

Korat wrote: »

Ancelotti doesn't start at Bayern until the summer...

ger up oura dah!

Victor McDade

Jose is the only logical choice. Knows the league, could attract big name players, and actually seems to want the job. People talk about him causing a poisonous atmosphere around the club, maybe, but he's likely to win the league before that, and thats what Utd need now. We're in danger of turning into ****ing Liverpool as it is

StringerBell

beno619 wrote: »

I think this is a lazy argument and amounts to nothing more than scare mongering.

Were on relegation form , I could endure Giggs for a few games if that what it takes.

I'm not sure where to start with this post.

It isn't an argument at all, so how it can be a lazy one I have no idea.

Scaremongering is not wanting Giggs to be in the hot seat....not sure I can agree with that either.

Relegation form, yep we are right now.

Endure Giggs for a few games if thats what it takes.

Have to brake that into two parts, "endure him for a few games" It is the end of December, there is half (right now over half) the games left to be played in the league. It is not a few games.

"If thats what it takes", how in the name of God can you be anyway confident that, that is what it will take!? What have you seen from Giggs to give you such confidence?