Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note Post #2331

TrustedApple

v3ttel wrote: »

We're Man United, arguably one of the top 4 biggest football clubs in the world along with Bayern Munich, Real Madrid and Barcelona.

We should not be appointing a man who has zero managerial experience, or a reserve team coach whose only experience is at Hull and Royal Antwerp.

It's got to be Guardiola, Mourinho or Ancelotti. It's not co-incidence that the 3 outstanding managers in world football have one of Bayern Munich, Real Madrid and Barcelona on their CVs.

That's the standard of manager we should be after. Obviously Ancelotti is not available now. We've procrastinated so long that Guardiola is likely to go to our biggest rivals.

Guardiola had no exp before Barcelona ....... only at Barcelona B so whats the worst that could happen if giggs is put in charge or Warren Joyce could end up being like Guardiola who knows ?.

Maximus Alexander

TrustedApple wrote: »

Guardiola had no exp before Barcelona ....... only at Barcelona B so whats the worst that could happen if giggs is put in charge or Warren Joyce could end up being like Guardiola who knows ?.

I've no experience. What's the worst that could happen if I am put in charge? Could end up being like Guardiola, who knows?

Liam McPoyle

TrustedApple wrote: »

Guardiola had no exp before Barcelona ....... only at Barcelona B so whats the worst that could happen if giggs is put in charge or Warren Joyce could end up being like Guardiola who knows ?.

Pep walked into a team with Messi, Xavi and Iniesta (among others) in it.

A three legged blind horse named Sad Ken would have struggled to fcuk that up!

Mitch Connor

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I've no experience. What's the worst that could happen if I am put in charge? Could end up being like Guardiola, who knows?

You ave also done all your coaching licences? Yes? Have your Pro license? You have actually studied to become a top level coach, yes?

Appointing giggs or joyce on a short term basis is in NO WAY similar to appointing some random guy off the street.

Discodog

Why should I have any confidence in Giggs when he has no confidence in himself to go somewhere else & prove his ability?

Maximus Alexander

Mitch Connor wrote: »

You ave also done all your coaching licences? Yes? Have your Pro license? You have actually studied to become a top level coach, yes?

Appointing giggs or joyce on a short term basis is in NO WAY similar to appointing some random guy off the street.

Might have - you know absolutely nothing about my abilities as a first team coach. Which is precisely my point.

Mitch Connor

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Might have - you know absolutely nothing about my abilities as a first team coach. Which is precisely my point.

What? How the feck can that be your point?

Random guy on the internet being appointed is the same as a person who has studied coaching at the very highest level, and has experience of dealing with top level pro's?

How the feck can you equate your randomness (with the fact I don't know you have such credentials) with Giggs? How can you possibly compare yourself to Giggs?

Liam McPoyle

Mitch Connor wrote: »

What? How the feck can that be your point?

Random guy on the internet being appointed is the same as a person who has studied coaching at the very highest level, and has experience of dealing with top level pro's?

How the feck can you equate your randomness (with the fact I don't know you have such credentials) with Giggs? How can you possibly compare yourself to Giggs?

He rode his brothers wife.

Sand

Leroy42 wrote: »

I really don't get the negative view of Jose...
One point that was made on NT last night, Utd are going to struggle to get top players if they don't have a clear strategy for the next few years. If you are Bale or whomever, are you really going to come to a club like Utd with LVG at best staying till end of next year? City will probably get Pep and have an investment plan for the next three years, we might have Giggs!

Apart from the bad football, the constant needless drama and infighting with players, staff, club officials and picking up less points than LVG over the 14 months up to his sacking there are two key problems with Mourinho.

1 - Appointing him after LVG, two managers who entirely disagree on the game is a clear sign to all players that the club has no clear strategy. Mata's career under Mourinho will be a stark warning to players that the club can and will do complete 180s every 2 seasons. Because Mourinho will be in his scheduled meltdown by then and some other manager will be picked seemingly at random.

2 - Mourinho at Utd next week guarantees Pep at City in the summer. Thats going to mean several grim years. United ought to be going all out for Pep, and maybe moving LVG to a DoF role.

Kirby

You put far too much stock in those badges and courses Mitch. Far too much. They mean very little.

The vast majority of coaches who complete them do not have successful careers. You cant be taught the skills to be a successful manager. You either have it or you don't like anything else in life. You can take courses in driving all you want but it wont make you Michael Schumacher unless you already have that in you. Because you did nothing but obsess about driving for hours and hours. You lived and breathed it. You didn't just go on a course and get a badge.

The true experts and pioneers of any field don't take lessons from people in how things are done. They have the arrogance, self confidence and ability to show everyone else how it should be done. And then the "teachers" copy their playbook and teach that to everyone else.

Mitch Connor

Kirby wrote: »

You put far too much stock in those badges and courses Mitch. Far too much. They mean very little.

The vast majority of coaches who complete them do not have successful careers. You cant be taught the skills to be a successful manager. You either have it or you don't like anything else in life. You can take courses in driving all you want but it wont make you Michael Schumacher unless you already have that in you. Because you did nothing but obsess about driving for hours and hours. You lived and breathed it. You didn't just go on a course and get a badge.

The true experts and pioneers of any field don't take lessons from people in how things are done. They have the arrogance, self confidence and ability to show everyone else how it should be done. And then the "teachers" copy their playbook and teach that to everyone else.

I'm not saying they guarantee anything. But Giggs, having worked to get them, is a far better bet than Maximus to be a success at United.

Mitch Connor

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I'm not saying they guarantee anything. But Giggs, having worked to get them, is a far better bet than Maximus to be a success at United.

:pac:

Maximus for president!

Rayne Wooney

Would Mourinho have left Barca and Bayern in a worse state than Pep has and would Pep have left Inter, Chelsea or Madrid in a better state than Mourinho?

It's difficult to say looking at it now, it's usually what sways people to Pep over Mourinho

Mourinho's achievements are more impressive than Pep's I think, probably by a good distance. The UEFA/CL double at Porto and the treble at Inter along with the other league titles

TrustedApple

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Might have - you know absolutely nothing about my abilities as a first team coach. Which is precisely my point.

Might as well give me the job i brought Dover Athletic from the Conference to the premier league back to back in football manager and won a Capitol one cup while i was in League 1 as well. Does that mean i can be the man utd boss ?. Not a hope ha ha.

They wont be able to play my ultra counter attricking style at all

Maximus Alexander

Mitch Connor wrote: »

What? How the feck can that be your point?

Random guy on the internet being appointed is the same as a person who has studied coaching at the very highest level, and has experience of dealing with top level pro's?

How the feck can you equate your randomness (with the fact I don't know you have such credentials) with Giggs? How can you possibly compare yourself to Giggs?

You have exactly the same amount of knowledge of how good a manager I am as you have for Giggs. Which is to say - none.

On what possible basis could anyone want to see Giggs given the job? What reasons would any fan have for wanting him to take the reins?

Because he has his badges? Is just having your badges enough to warrant a crack at the United job?

Because he was a legend as a player? The football world is absolutely lousy with formerly great players who made poor or mediocre managers, littered with them, then there's one or two Pep Guardiolas.

Is it just because he's idolized (rightly) for what he did for the club as a player? Does that tell us anything about how good a manager he would be?

The only reason to give someone the job as United manager should be because they have a proven track record of success managing at the top level. And just as you wouldn't give the job to me because there's nothing to say I could do it, you shouldn't be giving it to Giggs either. Because all his other achievements are completely irrelevant. Only his ability to manage matters, and we know nothing about that.

This fantasy of 'he could be the next Pep' needs to stop. Yeah, he could be, but it's vanishingly unlikely.

And just to be absolutely clear , it's possible that the people at the club - the people who work with him day in, day out - have reason to believe he could be a good manager. It's possible that they could see enough in him to judge that he's worth a punt. But they'd be using information that we, as fans, don't have. So on what basis are some fans prepared for him to take the job? I'm genuinely fascinated to know?

homerjay2005

kstand wrote: »

A sign of the times. The club has a global noodle partner.

having our team walking out at Old Trafford with a Disney tune playing last Saturday, was the cringe low-point for me.

cant imagine something that pathetic every happening a few years back. if other clubs did it, we'd fall over ourselves laughing at them.

Kirby

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Would Mourinho have left Barca and Bayern in a worse state than Pep has and would Pep have left Inter, Chelsea or Madrid in a better state than Mourinho?

It's difficult to say looking at it now, it's usually what sways people to Pep over Mourinho

Mourinho's achievements are more impressive than Pep's I think, probably by a good distance. The UEFA/CL double at Porto and the treble at Inter along with the other league titles

True but Pep hasn't experienced the failure that Mourinho has....that one diabolical game Bayern had against Barca notwithstanding.

When he comes to England, we shall see. If City win everything and he creates a brilliant team he will have proved himself beyond doubt. But he has walked into both major jobs he's had with stellar squads and that's worth remembering. City have a good squad but its not at the Barca or Bayern level. He'll have work to do.

Rayne Wooney

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Would Mourinho have left Barca and Bayern in a worse state than Pep has and would Pep have left Inter, Chelsea or Madrid in a better state than Mourinho?

It's difficult to say looking at it now, it's usually what sways people to Pep over Mourinho

Mourinho's achievements are more impressive than Pep's I think, probably by a good distance. The UEFA/CL double at Porto and the treble at Inter along with the other league titles

Then , you could just simply look at Barca when he left in 2012?

Was it left in a bad way?

*Edit* Pep won 14 trophies in 4 years I think

Rayne Wooney

Kirby wrote: »

True but Pep hasn't experienced the failure that Mourinho has....that one diabolical game Bayern had against Barca notwithstanding.

When he comes to England, we shall see. If City win everything and he creates a brilliant team he will have proved himself beyond doubt. But he has walked into both major jobs he's had with stellar squads and that's worth remembering. City have a good squad but its not at the Barca or Bayern level. He'll have work to do.

This is why I think he'll avoid United, under the same circumstances as it would have been in 2012 I think Pep would have taken over from Fergie in a heartbeat now but City have a clear edge over United now and it's going to be a big risk managing United.

bucketybuck

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I'm not saying they guarantee anything. But Giggs, having worked to get them, is a far better bet than Maximus to be a success at United.

And a far worse bet than the literally hundreds of managers who have those same coaching badges but who also have actually managed a club before.

homerjay2005

homerjay2005 wrote: »

having our team walking out at Old Trafford with a Disney tune playing last Saturday, was the cringe low-point for me.

cant imagine something that pathetic every happening a few years back. if other clubs did it, we'd fall over ourselves laughing at them.

Could be a few good ones.

Giggs running out ahead of LVG to the tune of I just can't wait to be King.

Woodword looking mournfully at LVG to the song Let it Go.

Ferguson walking out to the Circle of life

Homerjay close up in the crowd When you wish upon a star

After Peps first win next season A Whole New World


Seriously did that really happen though the players walked out to it?

Mitch Connor

Deleted User wrote: »

Could be a few good ones.

Giggs running out ahead of LVG to the tune of I just can't wait to be King.

Woodword looking mournfully at LVG to the song Let it Go.

Ferguson walking out to the Circle of life

Homerjay close up in the crowd When you wish upon a star

After Peps first win next season A Whole New World


Seriously did that really happen though the players walked out to it?

It was a 20th Century Fox theme, as far as I know.

See, also, the tweets from the United players who just can't wait to see The Revenant.

loyatemu

Its getting to the point where the top handful of clubs in Europe are only looking at the same handful of coaches - Pep to City, Pellegrini to Chelsea, Ancelloti to Bayern, Mourinho to Utd. etc. Eventually the clubs will have to look beyond that as they run out of names and the managers themselves run out of options (Mourinho has arguably already run out of options)

Real have just appointed Zidane, Barca have repeatedly appointed from within - it's not an insane notion for Utd. to do similar.

If we don't give Giggs a shot, and assuming Pep is promised to Citeh, and Mourinho is too toxic; which experienced manager would people like to see take over? Poach Larry White from PSG maybe?

killwill

loyatemu wrote: »

Its getting to the point where the top handful of clubs in Europe are only looking at the same handful of coaches - Pep to City, Pellegrini to Chelsea, Ancelloti to Bayern, Mourinho to Utd. etc. Eventually the clubs will have to look beyond that as they run out of names and the managers themselves run out of options (Mourinho has arguably already run out of options)

Real have just appointed Zidane, Barca have repeatedly appointed from within - it's not an insane notion for Utd. to do similar.

If we don't give Giggs a shot, and assuming Pep is promised to Citeh, and Mourinho is too toxic; which experienced manager would people like to see take over? Poach Larry White from PSG maybe?

Simeone would probably be the next best I would think.

Flint Fredstone

Ha, completely forgot about the 20th Century Fox intro. I burst out laughing at the time. Mental.

Maximus Alexander

loyatemu wrote: »

Its getting to the point where the top handful of clubs in Europe are only looking at the same handful of coaches - Pep to City, Pellegrini to Chelsea, Ancelloti to Bayern, Mourinho to Utd. etc. Eventually the clubs will have to look beyond that as they run out of names and the managers themselves run out of options (Mourinho has arguably already run out of options)

Real have just appointed Zidane, Barca have repeatedly appointed from within - it's not an insane notion for Utd. to do similar.

If we don't give Giggs a shot, and assuming Pep is promised to Citeh, and Mourinho is too toxic; which experienced manager would people like to see take over? Poach Larry White from PSG maybe?

Right this moment I'm not sure, but there'll be a new round of top managers.

There's already a few to keep an eye on, off the top of my head the likes of Blanc, Villas-Boas, Pochettino could potentially win things if they got jobs with the big boys. I know Villas-Boas has already fluffed his lines, but he has also had successes and is he even 40 yet?

Then there's Sampaoli who people seem to have a bit of a chubby for lately and wants to come to Europe, but I know little about him. I'm sure there are others around here who would have way better suggestions than me.

Mitch Connor

Mitch Connor wrote: »

It was a 20th Century Fox theme, as far as I know.

See, also, the tweets from the United players who just can't wait to see The Revenant.

Well that ruins my joke

homerjay2005

Deleted User wrote: »

Seriously did that really happen though the players walked out to it?

yep, i didnt even realise it was happening until somebody shouted out in the crowd "what the f*ck is that s*it playing on the tannoy".

it is as cringe as it gets.

DARK-KNIGHT

Pep had success handed to him...

Mourinho is the more experienced manager and is more capable of working with what we have than guardiola

How will pep react to a dressing room that has had confidence hammered out of it?

homerjay2005

Lukekul wrote: »

Here's a simple poll but maybe a mod should add one to the thread?

Poll Here

23% say LVG should stay - must be a heap of Liverpool fans voting. or is there seriously some people who still think LVG is the man?

Trigger

homerjay2005 wrote: »

23% say LVG should stay - must be a heap of Liverpool fans voting. or is there seriously some people who still think LVG is the man?

I'd also be interested to know who the 4 people that said other, would prefer? Would be nice to have a few alternatives to discuss

Lukekul

astradave wrote: »

I'd also be interested to know who the 4 people that said other, would prefer? Would be nice to have a few alternatives to discuss

As it stands.

The names below "Other" have been submitted by people picking other.

homerjay2005

Lukekul wrote: »

As it stands.

The names below "Other" have been submitted by people picking other.

the poll really is open to being corrupted once Van Gall is on it - rival fans would love to see Giggs also take over, so again the 50% support for Jose, is not realistic.

Lukekul

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the pool really is open to being corrupted once Van Gall is on it - rival fans would love to see Giggs also take over, so again the 50% support for Jose, is not realistic.

Yeah, I hope that because its not as public as a poll on the thread it might be less messed with.

I will say though, I've been following it since I put it up and it has stayed around 50 - 55 for Jose throughout.

RobertKK

Sky Sports News HQ expects Van Gaal to take charge of that fourth-round tie - but the man in the Old Trafford dugout remains firmly under scrutiny.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/10144515/ed-woodward-the-man-to-decide-louis-van-gaals-man-utd-future

An article about who holds the power at United, and it is as we know Ed Woodward. Maybe if we lose to Derby it is all over?
I don't want us to lose.

RobertKK

Sky Sports News HQ expects Van Gaal to take charge of that fourth-round tie - but the man in the Old Trafford dugout remains firmly under scrutiny.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/10144515/ed-woodward-the-man-to-decide-louis-van-gaals-man-utd-future

An article about who holds the power at United, and it is as we know Ed Woodward. Maybe if we lose to Derby it is all over?
I don't want us to lose.

Polo_Mint

RobertKK wrote: »

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/10144515/ed-woodward-the-man-to-decide-louis-van-gaals-man-utd-future

An article about who holds the power at United, and it is as we know Ed Woodward. Maybe if we lose to Derby it is all over?
I don't want us to lose.

If the Loss guaranteed a LVG exit. I could live with it.

bucketybuck

Polo_Mint wrote: »

If the Loss guaranteed a LVG exit. I could live with it.

Its high time we won another FA cup, let him lose some other game. Don't worry, there will be a defeat along soon enough.

bangkok

Polo_Mint wrote: »

If the Loss guaranteed a LVG exit. I could live with it.

I would never want to see United lose a game. Ever

markcahill1985

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its high time we won another FA cup, let him lose some other game. Don't worry, there will be a defeat along soon enough.

Would be more concerned with the Stoke and Chelsea games next week, two very tricky ones again

homerjay2005

bangkok wrote: »

I would never want to see United lose a game. Ever

that isnt what he said though.

hoping or wanting to see United lose is different from accepting defeat , if it meant LVG was gone.

we will all be gutted if we lose on Friday, but if it was to mean the end of LVG that the defeat would be softened and we would get over it quickly.

end justify the means, short term pain for long term gain and all that.

Nalz

homerjay2005 wrote: »

having our team walking out at Old Trafford with a Disney tune playing last Saturday, was the cringe low-point for me.

cant imagine something that pathetic every happening a few years back. if other clubs did it, we'd fall over ourselves laughing at them.

What was this? sorry if it was already posted just don't see it.

what song?

UnitedIrishman

v3ttel wrote: »

We're Man United, arguably one of the top 4 biggest football clubs in the world along with Bayern Munich, Real Madrid and Barcelona.

We should not be appointing a man who has zero managerial experience, or a reserve team coach whose only experience is at Hull and Royal Antwerp.

It's got to be Guardiola, Mourinho or Ancelotti. It's not co-incidence that the 3 outstanding managers in world football have one of Bayern Munich, Real Madrid and Barcelona on their CVs.

That's the standard of manager we should be after. Obviously Ancelotti is not available now. We've procrastinated so long that Guardiola is likely to go to our biggest rivals.

I wasn't saying give them a 3 year contract. If we're not keen on Mourinho then what are our options at this stage of the season if we sack Van Gaal? We're in a better position to choose a manger at the end of the season than now as few will want to leave their positions.

Unless we're to get Mourinho in which case just get him now.

Julez

Nalz wrote: »

What was this? sorry if it was already posted just don't see it.

what song?

At the start of the game, when coming out of the tunnel I think, they played the 21st century fox sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qDdYlyLRoI

5starpool

Article on the Guardian saying that the majority of Utd fans would be delighted if Giggs/G Neville were to be appointed as Utd manager. I suspect the article writer needs to consult with some actual utd fans as that is a ridiculous assertion.

Nalz

Julez wrote: »

At the start of the game, when coming out of the tunnel I think, they played the 21st century fox sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qDdYlyLRoI

why?

sponsorship? what next a hersey chocolate advert as the teams shake hands?

kstand

Derby got battered last night and arent on a great run of results. We could beat them or take them back to OT, that game isnt going to turn LVGs philosophy around nor the dressing room for that matter. If they decide to keep him on for the weekend then there is no rush to get rid of him as the transfer window closes on Monday.
The cancer in our club - the Glazers and that snake Woodward - will remain. And as long as they are there the problem will always be under the surface. Dreadful error not leaving Woodward in his job as commercial director - clown clearly hasnt a clue about the game itself.

kstand

Derby got battered last night and arent on a great run of results. We could beat them or take them back to OT, that game isnt going to turn LVGs philosophy around nor the dressing room for that matter. If they decide to keep him on for the weekend then there is no rush to get rid of him as the transfer window closes on Monday.
The cancer in our club - the Glazers and that snake Woodward - will remain. And as long as they are there the problem will always be under the surface. Dreadful error not leaving Woodward in his job as commercial director - clown clearly hasnt a clue about the game itself.

Julez

Nalz wrote: »

why?

sponsorship? what next a hersey chocolate advert as the teams shake hands?

Can only assume so, and I'd imagine its linked with all the players tweeting about The Revenant recently too.

Strumms

I'd imagine if we were beaten by Derby County that would be the end of it for LVG. He has had the time, the money and the support of everyone including the fans who I think on the whole have been patient up to now. The overall sense from everyone is that this won't get better between now and the end of the season so why delay the inevitable. This would be an ideal time for him to part company with the club . The fact that he seems to have a very stubborn streak in him and considering this will be his last job maybe he doesn't want to walk away and sign off on the back of what would have been a failure.. who knows. We need change and we need it now.