Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note Post #2331

brinty

astradave wrote: »

I'm actually confident of a handy enough 2-0 or so win.I dunno why though. Derby are on a poor run of form at the mo. Got hammered the weekend too.

Oh and leave Stokelona out of this!

Jesus when we're saying a handy 2-0 win you know there's problems....

Rubber_Soul

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Now we know where Woodward and co have had their minds on in recent day while the football side of things is falling apart.

http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Club-News/2016/Jan/manchester-united-announces-partnership-with-isotonic-drink-brand-YOU-C1000-in-Indonesia.aspx

Oh for the love of jaysus you're ridiculous. There's an entire marketing team at United working on these deals throughout the year.

Lord TSC

The criticisms about United's sponsor deals do my head in.

Its quite literally the one thing Woodward is doing amazing at, excelling at, but it's the thing a lot of people target the most. **** me, there's so many genuine criticisms to throw at him right now that it seems really stupid to be focusing on how he's actually doing something really well for the club.

homerjay2005

Rubber_Soul wrote: »

Oh for the love of jaysus you're ridiculous. There's an entire marketing team at United working on these deals throughout the year.

Lord TSC wrote: »

The criticisms about United's sponsor deals do my head in.

Its quite literally the one thing Woodward is doing amazing at, excelling at, but it's the thing a lot of people target the most. **** me, there's so many genuine criticisms to throw at him right now that it seems really stupid to be focusing on how he's actually doing something really well for the club.

you are both missing, probably deliberately, the point everybody is trying to make with this. the clubs focus is now unrecognisable to what it was 3 years ago and back then we were always about the brand and commercial. the new levels are just insane.

there is no point debating further, when people just dont want to look at it more than just more money.

fuzzydunlop85

If Van Gaal is staying I can't believe that we haven't signed anyone, to at least give us some hope of fourth. It's almost as if the board have givin up hope and are prepared to write this season off. Even a Mane/Arnuatoivc type would improve us. I know his record in the transfer market is pretty dire but if he is staying we should give him at least one more signing to try get us out of this mess. This whole saga has taken over a feckin critical transfer window.

Liam O

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Now we know where Woodward and co have had their minds on in recent day while the football side of things is falling apart.

http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Club-News/2016/Jan/manchester-united-announces-partnership-with-isotonic-drink-brand-YOU-C1000-in-Indonesia.aspx

You're right, I'd say you couldn't keep Woodward out of Indonesia the last week or two tbh...

Mantis Toboggan

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

If Van Gaal is staying I can't believe that we haven't signed anyone, to at least give us some hope of fourth.

He's already spent over 250 million in 1 and a half seasons, eventually you to say enough is enough. The more we spend the worse we seem to be getting. Why give him more money to squander?

Rubber_Soul

homerjay2005 wrote: »

you are both missing, probably deliberately, the point everybody is trying to make with this. the clubs focus is now unrecognisable to what it was 3 years ago and back then we were always about the brand and commercial. the new levels are just insane.

there is no point debating further, when people just dont want to look at it more than just more money.

No, you are deliberately missing the point. During the Fergie/Glazer era United had an average net spend of £13 million per year (£23 million if you want to discount the Ronaldo money as some seem to). Since Woodward came on board the club has spent an average of £66 million (net) per year, breaking our own transfer record three times.

The club is investing more money to the football side of things than it ever has before but in your view they're solely focused on the commercial side of things. You're ignoring anything that doesn't confirm your own bias.

Do you reckon the club should suspend all commercial activities until the football improves?

bangkok

Stringerbell do you still think "Leicester will not be finishing in the top 4 this season"??

bucketybuck

Tyson Fury wrote: »

He's already spent over 250 million in 1 and a half seasons, eventually you to say enough is enough. The more we spend the worse we seem to be getting. Why give him more money to squander?

Exactly. Why bother with a big signing when he would likely just go the way of Depay or Di Maria, its a complete waste of money to add big money signings to that squad under the current manager.

Liam O

Tyson Fury wrote: »

He's already spent over 250 million in 1 and a half seasons, eventually you to say enough is enough. The more we spend the worse we seem to be getting. Why give him more money to squander?

What players that he has signed did you think shouldn't have been signed at the time?

bucketybuck

Rubber_Soul wrote: »

The club is investing more money to the football side of things than it ever has before but in your view they're solely focused on the commercial side of things. You're ignoring anything that doesn't confirm your own bias.

Do you reckon the club should suspend all commercial activities until the football improves?

Isn't his point not the money spent but that the constant focus on commercial activities means the football side is being neglected? The lack of decisive action on a manager that should have been sacked months ago and the lack of proper youth development structures would certainly suggest so?

The club doesn't need to suspend commercial activities, but it does perhaps need to have a look at its priorities...

StringerBell

bangkok wrote: »

Stringerbell do you still think "Leicester will not be finishing in the top 4 this season"??

Obviously.

They haven't come through the run of games I mentioned yet so what has changed?

homerjay2005

bucketybuck wrote: »

Isn't his point not the money spent but that the constant focus on commercial activities means the football side is being neglected? The lack of decisive action on a manager that should have been sacked months ago and the lack of proper youth development structures would certainly suggest so?

The club doesn't need to suspend commercial activities, but it does perhaps need to have a look at its priorities...

listen man, most people get it. there is a group unfortunately that dont and there really is no point trying to explain, as people wont listen.

all that matters to some people is $$$ and they equate that to success, a few quid thrown out here and this erases memories very quickly and covers over the problems.

im saying no more on this point, as im sick of trying to get people to realise whats happening and where the club has turned towards.

the club is unrecognisable in the last 3 years - no wonder the Glazers believe this is the correct approach too when a section of our fans fail to see it.

Lord TSC

bucketybuck wrote: »

Isn't his point not the money spent but that the constant focus on commercial activities means the football side is being neglected? The lack of decisive action on a manager that should have been sacked months ago and the lack of proper youth development structures would certainly suggest so?

The club doesn't need to suspend commercial activities, but it does perhaps need to have a look at its priorities...

Coreleation, causation, etc.

There's no proof that excellent commercial dealings are impacting at all on the football side of things. Just because Woodward is doing a magnificent job on one side of things and a very poor job on the other doesn't mean, logically, that the two are related at all.

We couldbe achieving everything we are commercially and still be fixing things on the football side of things. The lack of decisive action with LVG has nothing to do with the fact we signed a noodle sponsor. Or is the implication Ed is sitting somewhere going "I could sack LVG....or I could sign a new sponsor!" It's very obviously not an either/or situation. His failings on the football side of things (and I'll admit there are many) has nothing to do with his massive successes in the commercial end of things.

Maximus Alexander

StringerBell wrote: »

Obviously.

They haven't come through the run of games I mentioned yet so what has changed?

Well they got a whole 3 more points since you last said it, so of course absolutely everything might have changed.

StringerBell

bucketybuck wrote: »

Exactly. Why bother with a big signing when he would likely just go the way of Depay or Di Maria, its a complete waste of money to add big money signings to that squad under the current manager.

Future planning would play a part I would imagine, the likes of Herrera and Shaw were lined up before Van Gaal came on board, if the opportunity is there to improve the squad and potentially unearth a gem I think you have to take it whether the manager is going to be there past the summer or not really.

Memphis wasn't a big money signing, and buying potential is something the club has done as long as I'm supporting it. Absolute best case scenario for Van Gaal is he has one more season (somehow) at the club, the likes of Martial will still not be fully developed by that point and the benefit of his talent will most likely be got by the next managers, but if he wasn't signed during the summer we may never have got the chance to sign him again.

Not saying to go and blow a wedge on the likes of Ibra or anything, that would be a short term fix with very little potential upside, but there are situations where the club should move on targets whether the current manager is doing a great job or a terrible one

StringerBell

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Well they got a whole 3 more points since you last said it, so of course absolutely everything might have changed.

Of course! Feckin Fellaini again :mad:

Flint Fredstone

Poor old Woodward should get the Livescore app on his phone, then he might realise that we are losing and drawing most of these games that he attends every week and somehow fails to notice.
Maybe he's too busy emailing Ronald McDonald and Tony the tiger?

fuzzydunlop85

Tyson Fury wrote: »

He's already spent over 250 million in 1 and a half seasons, eventually you to say enough is enough. The more we spend the worse we seem to be getting. Why give him more money to squander?

I know it's against all logic but we have sponsorships coming out our arse and we are in a dire mess, it's worth the punt given the situation we find ourselves. I just don't understand why they didn't get rid of him before the window to give the next man in time to bring in some new additions. Mourinhio could have made a couple of shrewd signings on the that would have improved our squad I'm sure. Feck it I'd have nearly taken adeybayor at this stage at least on his day he can bang in a few goals!

bucketybuck

Lord TSC wrote: »

The lack of decisive action with LVG has nothing to do with the fact we signed a noodle sponsor. Or is the implication Ed is sitting somewhere going "I could sack LVG....or I could sign a new sponsor!" It's very obviously not an either/or situation. His failings on the football side of things (and I'll admit there are many) has nothing to do with his massive successes in the commercial end of things.

The implication is that the CEO/board have a list of objectives, meetings and tasks this month and that dealing with the first team manager is not top of that list. Everybody's time is finite, so if Ed Woodward is closing certain commercial deals but not taking action on football matters then its very understandable to question the correlation.

When you have a steady stream of new sponsorship deals announced but zero action taken on a failed manager and zero new players signed for an under strength squad then I see nothing wrong with wondering where the CEO's priorities are?

Considering the state of the club right now frankly I'd be more amazed if people weren't questioning the disconnect that seems to be present.

kstand

Lord TSC wrote: »

Coreleation, causation, etc.

There's no proof that excellent commercial dealings are impacting at all on the football side of things. Just because Woodward is doing a magnificent job on one side of things and a very poor job on the other doesn't mean, logically, that the two are related at all.

We couldbe achieving everything we are commercially and still be fixing things on the football side of things. The lack of decisive action with LVG has nothing to do with the fact we signed a noodle sponsor. Or is the implication Ed is sitting somewhere going "I could sack LVG....or I could sign a new sponsor!" It's very obviously not an either/or situation. His failings on the football side of things (and I'll admit there are many) has nothing to do with his massive successes in the commercial end of things.

Woodward should have been left as commercial director - he seems to be very good at squeezing money out of companies for nothing short of old rope.
He is clearly not up to any other job within the club and should have those responsibilities removed. The commercial side alone is a huge under-taking for one man, so I'd leave him at it and get someone who actually knows what they are doing and knows about the game to take over the rest of it.

Rubber_Soul

bucketybuck wrote: »

Isn't his point not the money spent but that the constant focus on commercial activities means the football side is being neglected? The lack of decisive action on a manager that should have been sacked months ago and the lack of proper youth development structures would certainly suggest so?

The club doesn't need to suspend commercial activities, but it does perhaps need to have a look at its priorities...

There's no evidence that the clubs commercial activities are impacting negatively on the football side of things. Given the increased investment and the fact the club shortened its very lucrative pre-season tour after the manager argued it negatively impacted the football side of things, I would argue that the club is evidently not ignoring the football side of things.

The club has failed because they've hired the wrong manager twice. That's what Woodward et al should be criticised for.

Rubber_Soul

homerjay2005 wrote: »

listen man, most people get it. there is a group unfortunately that dont and there really is no point trying to explain, as people wont listen.

all that matters to some people is $$$ and they equate that to success, a few quid thrown out here and this erases memories very quickly and covers over the problems.

im saying no more on this point, as im sick of trying to get people to realise whats happening and where the club has turned towards.

the club is unrecognisable in the last 3 years - no wonder the Glazers believe this is the correct approach too when a section of our fans fail to see it.

Ah would you give over. As usual you can't defend your opinion so you label others as having their heads in the sand. The club is failing because they've made a balls of it when it comes to managerial decisions. The fact is that the club is investing more money into the football side of things than it ever has before but it's being wasted by having the wrong manager in place.

bucketybuck

Rubber_Soul wrote: »

There's no evidence that the clubs commercial activities are impacting negatively on the football side of things. Given the increased investment and the fact the club shortened its very lucrative pre-season tour after the manager argued it negatively impacted the football side of things, I would argue that the club is evidently not ignoring the football side of things.

The club has failed because they've hired the wrong manager twice. That's what Woodward et al should be criticised for.

The club is failing not because they hire the wrong manager, but because they aren't decisive enough in recognising when the risk has went astray and taking action.

And that is the point at which you question the CEO's focus, why has he not acted upon a situation that has been a mess for months now? Van Gaal is a busted flush, why is this dragging on? It is not warped logic to wonder if he hasn't acted because such things are not his top priority, and note that his top priorities (the sponsorships) are ticking along very nicely indeed.

Iused2likebusts

StringerBell wrote: »

Obviously.

They haven't come through the run of games I mentioned yet so what has changed?

Leicester have increased their lead and there is now less games to catch up. They are in a better position than when you mentioned it.

Rubber_Soul

kstand wrote: »

The commercial side alone is a huge under-taking for one man

It's a good thing he has the commercial director Richard Arnold and his team to help isn't it? :rolleyes:

EDIT: Didn't realise Arnold had moved on, point still stands though.

The_Kew_Tour

Tbf to Woodward he bought players like Falcao, Di Maria, Bastian, big names we were crying out for since 2008.

He spent what I thought was good money on these players, you can't blame Woodward cause they did not work out.

Rubber_Soul

bucketybuck wrote: »

The club is failing not because they hire the wrong manager, but because they aren't decisive enough in recognising when the risk has went astray and taking action.

And that is the point at which you question the CEO's focus, why has he not acted upon a situation that has been a mess for months now? Van Gaal is a busted flush, why is this dragging on? It is not warped logic to wonder if he hasn't acted because such things are not his top priority, and note that his top priorities (the sponsorships) are ticking along very nicely indeed.

They hired him, it's no surprise that they're backing him. I would assume it's because they think he can turn it around. I don't think it's the correct decision myself but I'm not surprised by it. It doesn't imply that the EVC's priorities are the commercial side though, especially when there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. It implies Woodward or the Glazers are poor judges of managers.

StringerBell

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Leicester have increased their lead and there is now less games to catch up. They are in a better position than when you mentioned it.

Doesn't hold any relevance to my opinion I'm afraid. If they get through the run of games I mentioned before I'll be forced to reconsider, but as of right now.

"Leicester will not be finishing in the top 4 this season"

bangkok

StringerBell wrote: »

Doesn't hold any relevance to my opinion I'm afraid. If they get through the run of games I mentioned before I'll be forced to reconsider, but as of right now.

"Leicester will not be finishing in the top 4 this season"

Sure if we keep losing of course they will finish top 4!!! I take it maths was not your strong point in school??

TheTownie

Rubber_Soul wrote: »

It's a good thing he has the commercial director Richard Arnold and his team to help isn't it? :rolleyes:

Arnold has been Group Managing Director since mid 2013. He oversees commercial activities but obviously doesn't manage it day to day anymore.

Jamieson Reigle is the Commercial Director.

---

We'll never know exactly how much of Woodward's time is spent on footballing matters. He could be spending 100% of his time but that wouldn't change the fact hes doing a shít job at the moment between the first team and youth setup.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

Sure if we keep losing of course they will finish top 4!!! I take it maths was not your strong point in school??

That's not what he said. Just because he thinks Leicester are going to miss top 4 doesn't mean he thinks United will make it

StringerBell

bangkok wrote: »

Sure if we keep losing of course they will finish top 4!!! I take it maths was not your strong point in school??

That's great.

"Leicester will not be finishing top 4 this season"

bangkok

StringerBell wrote: »

That's great.

"Leicester will not be finishing top 4 this season"

Mitch Connor

StringerBell wrote: »

That's great.

"Leicester will not be finishing top 4 this season"

A 10 point cushion at the moment. I don't see them losing 4 games more than the teams chasing them for it.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

big long Google search image link ugh

ericzeking

My guess is we are waiting for Pep in the summer, maybe it is all done and dusted...Giggs is not seen as viable even in the extended caretaker role and perhaps LVG is deemed the lesser risk...someone with his experience should be able to eek out a top 4 in this season with Chelsea out of the picture.

That'd be my take on it.

ericzeking

My guess is we are waiting for Pep in the summer, maybe it is all done and dusted...Giggs is not seen as viable even in the extended caretaker role and perhaps LVG is deemed the lesser risk...someone with his experience should be able to eek out a top 4 in this season with Chelsea out of the picture.

That'd be my take on it.

Pro. F

bucketybuck wrote: »

And that is the point at which you question the CEO's focus, why has he not acted upon a situation that has been a mess for months now? Van Gaal is a busted flush, why is this dragging on?

Probably because they don't think there is a suitable replacement available just now and they think LVG will be better for the meantime than Giggs. Bobby Charlton has previously voiced criticism of Mourinho and said he's not Man Utd manager material, so it would make sense that he's not wanted.

It makes more sense than the theory that the chief executive is incompetent at his job and that the organisation is prioritising commercial sponsorship to such an extent that they'd allow the cash cow of CL qualification to be jeopardised through their inaction.

Canadel

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Tbf to Woodward he bought players like Falcao, Di Maria, Bastian, big names we were crying out for since 2008.

He spent what I thought was good money on these players, you can't blame Woodward cause they did not work out.

He signed Falcao on loan for an extortionate wage deal and while he may have signed Di Maria for market value, it's obvious now that he was way overpriced. Bastian? Has he been any better for Utd than Cambiasso (a free transfer) was for Leicester last season? Probably not.

Both Woodward and Van Gaal are responsible for the disastrous transfer dealings. The only transfer they've really got right was the Schneiderlinn signing, something anybody watching the league for the last five years could have told you was clear as day. Ultimately the transfer market has been a massive miscalculation by the two of them, and most of the blame for that must lay with Van Gaal, as he said from the start he had a philosophy and we can only imagine he bought players to fit into that philosophy. Either his philosophy doesn't work, or he doesn't know what his philosophy is himself any more.

Liam O

bucketybuck wrote: »

The club is failing not because they hire the wrong manager, but because they aren't decisive enough in recognising when the risk has went astray and taking action.

And that is the point at which you question the CEO's focus, why has he not acted upon a situation that has been a mess for months now? Van Gaal is a busted flush, why is this dragging on? It is not warped logic to wonder if he hasn't acted because such things are not his top priority, and note that his top priorities (the sponsorships) are ticking along very nicely indeed.

See, there is so much that the club and LVG could be criticised for and yet you have these arguments which are pointless. When someone points out the folly of them it changes to "there's a group that doesn't see the truth like me and homer". If you were interested in engaging in the counter points that people are raising rather than just pointless repeated rhetoric that has been refuted then people may be a bit more willing to take it seriously.

bucketybuck

Canadel wrote: »

Both Woodward and Van Gaal are responsible for the disastrous transfer dealings. The only transfer they've really got right was the Schneiderlinn signing

And he sat on the bench for a lot of the season.

bucketybuck

Liam O wrote: »

See, there is so much that the club and LVG could be criticised for and yet you have these arguments which are pointless. When someone points out the folly of them it changes to "there's a group that doesn't see the truth like me and homer". If you were interested in engaging in the counter points that people are raising rather than just pointless repeated rhetoric that has been refuted then people may be a bit more willing to take it seriously.

What on earth are you even blathering about? Did you mean to quote somebody else? Where did I say there was a group that doesn't see the truth? I responded to various comments with comments of my own and don't recall talking to you at all, so what is your point here?

Korat

The only man who understands what's going on at the club is LVG and he's decided he isn't the man to fix things. Woodward, the Glazer bean counter, with no knowledge of the game decides he knows better. The club is screwed while someone like Woodward is making the critical decisions.

Liam McPoyle

I see Brendan Rodgers has ruled himself out of the United job anyway.

Drat.

:rolleyes:

homerjay2005

bucketybuck wrote: »

And he sat on the bench for a lot of the season.

while i would have him in the team every week and im delighted we signed him but i think Morgans performances are being slightly over rated this season.

he has been good, but like alot of our players, is playing nowhere near his previous capibility and he has had alot of poor games.

now blame LVG for that perhaps, but players need to take responsibility and i dont think so far he has shown he is worth the money we paid for him.

Canadel

bucketybuck wrote: »

And he sat on the bench for a lot of the season.

Yeah it's bizarre. In fact the whole thing is surreal. While the Moyes era was very real in many ways, it always felt like it was just an anomaly, and even though it was painful at the time, you always knew it was just a momentary pain, before things began to return to normal. Right now, I don't think anybody could realistically predict when Utd will challenge for the title again, never mind Europe. The status quo has changed. The situation is now very real.

bucketybuck

homerjay2005 wrote: »

while i would have him in the team every week and im delighted we signed him but i think Morgans performances are being slightly over rated this season.

he has been good, but like alot of our players, is playing nowhere near his previous capibility and he has had alot of poor games.

now blame LVG for that perhaps, but players need to take responsibility and i dont think so far he has shown he is worth the money we paid for him.

In this context though it isn't about whether he is playing to his full potential, but whether he is a better option than anybody else we have and if our results are better with him in the team.

Liam O

Canadel wrote: »

He signed Falcao on loan for an extortionate wage deal and while he may have signed Di Maria for market value, it's obvious now that he was way overpriced. Bastian? Has he been any better for Utd than Cambiasso (a free transfer) was for Leicester last season? Probably not.

Both Woodward and Van Gaal are responsible for the disastrous transfer dealings. The only transfer they've really got right was the Schneiderlinn signing, something anybody watching the league for the last five years could have told you was clear as day. Ultimately the transfer market has been a massive miscalculation by the two of them, and most of the blame for that must lay with Van Gaal, as he said from the start he had a philosophy and we can only imagine he bought players to fit into that philosophy. Either his philosophy doesn't work, or he doesn't know what his philosophy is himself any more.

Right, so you didn't think ADM was a good signing at the time? One of the best players in the world? Falcao? One of the best strikers in the world pre-injury wasn't worth bringing in for a year loan to see if he could get back? Herrera and Shaw, both filled gaping holes in the squad weren't good signings? Blind, who has filled in very well in 3 positions and if anything has been underrated this season. Rojo, like Shaw has had a lot of injury problems, tough to be too hard on players when going through that. Memphis, one of the top prospects in the world for circa £20m? Not a good signing at the time?

People using a lot of hindsight...