Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note Post #2331

Mitch Connor

Whatever about the rights or wrongs of what Giggs does or does not do at United, i think it is now unquestionable that he needs to leave United.

By common concensus he wants the managers job, and I believe Woodward has at the least intimated that he is a front runner for the job after LVG, which is part of why he has (apparently) turned down other jobs (Swansea, I believe, maybe others). However, if United have not turned to him now - with the first team squad and performances in the state they are in - it is clear that in the short term at least he is not the man the united decision makers want to turn to. He should, imo, consider the fact he is not already United manager (interim or otherwise) as a deciding factor in moving on to the next acceptable job offer he gets.

Mitch Connor

Whatever about the rights or wrongs of what Giggs does or does not do at United, i think it is now unquestionable that he needs to leave United.

By common concensus he wants the managers job, and I believe Woodward has at the least intimated that he is a front runner for the job after LVG, which is part of why he has (apparently) turned down other jobs (Swansea, I believe, maybe others). However, if United have not turned to him now - with the first team squad and performances in the state they are in - it is clear that in the short term at least he is not the man the united decision makers want to turn to. He should, imo, consider the fact he is not already United manager (interim or otherwise) as a deciding factor in moving on to the next acceptable job offer he gets.

Adamcp898

TheDoc wrote: »

While he has a tendancy to sometimes get riled over something not worthy, the only consistent cringe worthy and embarrassing features in his conferences is the standard of questioning he receives.

That's sports journalism though, that's the gig. It's largely a manufactured area of journalism populated by puff and opinion pieces because not enough stories that are actually newsworthy happen at a football club every day. Add to that the fact that if you do go into a press conference and ask too many probing questions, the interviewee will just get up and leave and you'll find you won't have press accreditation granted for the next one and your peers pissed off because now they, and not just you, have nothing to give to their editor.

The daily journalists need the mundane 2 inches of crap to put in a paper no matter what so they'll ask the same questions over and over as the alternative is to have nothing to write about and be out of a job. I find it just as boring as the next person so personally I choose not to read a lot of the opinion and obvious articles.

As for LvG, the arrogance and charisma and "look at him stick it to those pesky hacks, letting them who know who's boss and who knows more about football" stick was grand for a while. But when things aren't going well, which they obviously haven't been, and this crap continued, it comes across as being deluded and stupid as opposed to charismatic and powerful.

ericzeking

TheDoc wrote: »

While he has a tendancy to sometimes get riled over something not worthy, the only consistent cringe worthy and embarrassing features in his conferences is the standard of questioning he receives.

I watch the Sunday Supplement each week, and am amazed by some of the journos, some of them are good and you'd listen to them but some of them come out with some of the most simplistic stuff, stuff you'd here down the pub from casual observers, that guy Steve Bates and Martin Samuel being two in particular who just spout sound bites for the the lowest common denominator, it's no surprise they write for the Mirror and the Mail.

bucketybuck

Adamcp898 wrote: »

That's sports journalism though, that's the gig.

Exactly, its part of the game and its part of the managers job to handle it. If the clubs want all the billions that come with media exposure then they need to play the media game, and as an employee of the club the manager needs to suck it up and play it too.

Van Gaal isn't being cool or clever by being a dick to the press, he is just painting a big target on his back that eventually hurts the club he is supposed to be managing.

TheDoc

Enjoyed reading this, just as a look back at Van Gaal at Bayern. Came recommended from F365 mediawatch

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/van-gaal-bayern-when-louis-averted-crisis-then-talked-himself-bitter-exit#:v07MIzft_uNnTg

TheDoc

Enjoyed reading this, just as a look back at Van Gaal at Bayern. Came recommended from F365 mediawatch

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/van-gaal-bayern-when-louis-averted-crisis-then-talked-himself-bitter-exit#:v07MIzft_uNnTg

Rossi IRL

Hococop wrote: »

Surely Pereira should start tomorrow

Pereira has full freedom in the u21s. He goes where he wants, he does skill when he wants and shoots when he wants and thats what makes him stand out.

No player in the first team is allowed that sort of freedom though.

TheDoc

ericzeking wrote: »

I watch the Sunday Supplement each week, and am amazed by some of the journos, some of them are good and you'd listen to them but some of them come out with some of the most simplistic stuff, stuff you'd here down the pub from casual observers, that guy Steve Bates and Martin Samuel being two in particular who just spout sound bites for the the lowest common denominator, it's no surprise they write for the Mirror and the Mail.

I think part of my enjoyment of that show is some of the ridiculous comments made. I'm watching it since the days of Jimmy Hill hosting, and from a young age provided me this weekly "thinktank" of what the media in England were on about. I've never come across an Irish journalist writing about the Premier league I've ever rated, so that was my go to. It also provided a bit of a face and character behind words I'd be reading.

I think it's also a good show, from a United perspective, to weed out the bluffers. Steve Bates has been royally caught out a good few times, and Neil Custis also. I enjoy Neil Ashton as a host and think he runs a good programme. But during his short absence due to illness, when a non journalist was hosting, he grilled a few people, and there was massive fan feedback about how its what the show needed. Some outrageous stories, being called out and writers being put to task. I notice Ashton is doing that more often now, and even the guests themselves criticising each others work (last weekends panel were very dismissive of Delaney's Mourinho love letter exclusive)

What I really like is that it really does separate those who have a good footballing knowledge, and those who massively struggle with the details and revert to cliches.

Martin Samuel is a bit of a dinosaur at times with this opinions, but there is also some of them that I fully agree with.

Rayne Wooney

Watching Stoke the other night it's admirable how much they've improved from a couple of years ago

Lower teams in the league are realising if you go out and play positive football you will be rewarded, Stoke, Watford, Leicester, West Ham have all done it.

Have really enjoyed the league this year it's a shame how rubbish we are and it's no wonder with the negative boring football we play

TheDoc

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Watching Stoke the other night it's admirable how much they've improved from a couple of years ago

Lower teams in the league are realising if you go out and play positive football you will be rewarded, Stoke, Watford, Leicester, West Ham have all done it.

Have really enjoyed the league this year it's a shame how rubbish we are and it's no wonder with the negative boring football we play

And yet I believe Stoke have scored less goals this season then Villa or Sunderland? (Thought I heard that stat on Monday's Football Weekly)

But it just goes to show, playing a style that does get you interested and excited, can warp the general perception, in a positive manner.

Coat22

bucketybuck wrote: »

You're not the first to say something like this, is it really such a slight on Ince to not be as good as perhaps the best midfielder ever?

Absolutely not and I didn't say that. What I said was "the big clear out" wasn't such an "overhaul" as many say it was. We didn't need Ince as we had Keane. No shame in that.

Coat22

bucketybuck wrote: »

He handled it where it mattered, on the field, his performances never dipped for us.

Besides, who says he couldn't handle Keane being superior, where has that come from? Was Keane better? Keane may have gone on to be the greater player but in 1994/95 he was still a relative newcomer to the club, wheras Ince was a huge figure and at the time the first black England captain. So why do you say he couldn't handle Keane being superior, whats that based on?

Fergie had his reasons for moving Ince on I'm sure but it wasn't because Ince couldn't handle Roy Keane.

Even when Keane was at Forrest he was better than Ince

bucketybuck

TheDoc wrote: »

But it just goes to show, playing a style that does get you interested and excited, can warp the general perception, in a positive manner.

For me the lesson is that it is possible for new managers to get a team playing cohesively and effectively, the myth of "transition" is vastly overblown. Pochettino, Ranieri, Hughes and plenty of others, all can take their players, coach them and implement a style of play that works to varying degrees.

Van Gaal can't. He is no closer to getting that team playing well than he was 2 years ago. Pochettino has been at Spurs the same length of time and has them doing exactly what he wants, Ranieri is only at Leicster a year but has them playing great stuff. United on the other hand have better players and have spent more money, but look like a complete shower of ****e on the field.

Thats not Ed Woodwards fault, thats nothing to do with power struggles behind the scenes, thats all on the manager and coaches.

dr.kenneth noisewater

TheDoc wrote: »

Enjoyed reading this, just as a look back at Van Gaal at Bayern. Came recommended from F365 mediawatch

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/van-gaal-bayern-when-louis-averted-crisis-then-talked-himself-bitter-exit#:v07MIzft_uNnTg

good read

Adamcp898

bucketybuck wrote: »

Exactly, its part of the game and its part of the managers job to handle it. If the clubs want all the billions that come with media exposure then they need to play the media game, and as an employee of the club the manager needs to suck it up and play it too.

Van Gaal isn't being cool or clever by being a dick to the press, he is just painting a big target on his back that eventually hurts the club he is supposed to be managing.

Yep. He seems to have failed to recognise what a press conference can do for him, i.e. use it to indirectly (and if needed, directly) speak to the fans and get them behind him but whether it's intentional or not he's turned it into this daft "me vs. them" spectacle with regards the journalists.

Ferguson reached the point where he could say what he wanted and never lose fan (as well as journalist) support. United could play badly and he was able to come out and highlight x,y, & z and call it a good performance. But even when he was blatantly wrong in doing so, fans and journalists alike would justify it as "he's playing mind games with this manager" or "he's just doing his best to protect x player" etc. and this was a product of the fact that he had sustained success for two decades in the one place and so could dictate (and sometimes bully) whatever he wanted.

Whereas LvG has failed to realise that, despite his experience, he's treated as a new manager and so when he does the same thing after a poor performance he's treated by fans and journalists as "he has no experience of the PL and clearly has no idea what he's doing if this is how he saw that 90 minutes".

His stubbornness and arrogance in press conferences just emphasises that whereas if he took a much less combative approach he could use it to get fans and journalists on his side. Whether he values their support or not, charming them and keeping them happy reduces the pressure on him a hell of a lot.

Maximus Alexander

TheDoc wrote: »

Enjoyed reading this, just as a look back at Van Gaal at Bayern. Came recommended from F365 mediawatch

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/van-gaal-bayern-when-louis-averted-crisis-then-talked-himself-bitter-exit#:v07MIzft_uNnTg

Unusually well written for football journalism.

Mitch Connor

bucketybuck wrote: »

Thats not Ed Woodwards fault, thats nothing to do with power struggles behind the scenes, thats all on the manager and coaches.

But LVG still being in charge arguably is.

bucketybuck

Adamcp898 wrote: »

His stubbornness and arrogance in press conferences just emphasises that whereas if he took a much less combative approach he could use it to get fans and journalists on his side. Whether he values their support or not, charming them and keeping them happy reduces the pressure on him a hell of a lot.

Fergie was a master at this and it was the main reason he got away with so much. He could be a sour grumpy git towards the press at times, but in the background he also cultivated a lot of relationships with the media (as well as with other football figures). He spoke to them, he regularly threw them a bone, gave them something to use and in return they used what he wanted them to use.

Van Gaal doesn't, he has this sneer of contempt on his lips so in return the press print the things we would rather they didn't, and ask about the things he has no answers for.

grames_bond

https://twitter.com/danroan/status/692716266998632448

A furious Van Gaal: "It is awful and horrible but you can write....It is the third time I am sacked and I am still sitting here."

Mitch Connor

He SHOULD have offered to resign given the pathetic job he is doing as manager. If he thinks the job he is doing is good enough, then he is more deluded than I could have ever thought.

bucketybuck

A furious Van Gaal: "It is awful and horrible but you can write....It is the third time I am sacked and I am still sitting here."

Another cringeworthy moan at the press from Van Gaal?

Its a risky strategy but it just might work! :rolleyes: Maybe he will ask them to apologise again?

Lord TSC

I get that it must be horrible to be on the receiving end of such stories...but at the same time, there's a reason the press are writing he's on the verge of being sacked. He has to take responsibility himself for that.

Flint Fredstone

Lord TSC wrote: »

I get that it must be horrible to be on the receiving end of such stories...but at the same time, there's a reason the press are writing he's on the verge of being sacked. He has to take responsibility himself for that.

Yeah, if they keep saying it after every defeat they are bound to get it right at some stage.

Mitch Connor

The awful and horrible stories are because of your awful and horrible football, Louis. You've spent a quarter of a billion creating this mess. Take responsibility and leave.

bangkok

Luke Shaw has been a massive loss to both Manchester United and to van Gaal

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

Luke Shaw has been a massive loss to both Manchester United and to van Gaal

He has been a loss, but a managers success should not depend on a 20 year old full back.

posturingpat

grames_bond wrote: »

https://twitter.com/danroan/status/692716266998632448

The poor man, he'd never be at any of that kind of carry on ,calling journalists fat man or anything like that,certainly not :rolleyes:

Press should write about the footballing matters and not the click bait speculation of him being sacked. Pretty sad state of affairs people now accept this as the norm for journalism.

Mitch Connor

Deleted User wrote: »

Press should write about the footballing matters and not the click bait speculation of him being sacked. Pretty sad state of affairs people now accept this as the norm for journalism.

If you work on the assumption LVG is telling the truth and all the press were lying about his offers to quit, then yeah - i can see why you would react like that.

Giggernaut

bucketybuck wrote: »

He has been a loss, but a managers success should not depend on a 20 year old full back.

Reckon Memphis misses Shaw most. Until the injury the two seemed to be building a decent relationship.

jayo26

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Press should write about the footballing matters and not the click bait speculation of him being sacked. Pretty sad state of affairs people now accept this as the norm for journalism.

Sure that would take most of the fun out of loving football. The only thing that's wrong is that our club is on the receiving end of it now. I don't know about you but ive taken loads of pleasure of Liverpool managers been under pressure over the years its been great crack now it's our turn to take it on the chin.

bucketybuck

If you want to see what I mean about the importance of playing the media game here is an example. The BBC would be relatively impartial, no? Well they have a breaking news story about Van Gaals comments above, and here is the first 3 lines:

Louis van Gaal has described stories suggesting he offered to resign as Manchester United manager as "awful and horrible".

United have won only three of their past 13 league and cup games.

Van Gaal and his players were jeered by fans at the end of Saturday's 1-0 Premier League home defeat by Southampton, prompting renewed speculation about the manager's future.

Line one the quote from Van Gaal. Line 2 pointing out Uniteds dismal recent record. Line 3 reminding everybody that Van Gaal is getting jeered by the fans.

The point is that the BBC did not need to lead with lines 2 and 3, they did not need to immediately remind everybody that Van Gaals record perhaps deserves all he gets. They could easily have taken a different tone to the report, a softer tone perhaps focusing on a combative Van Gaal sparring with jounralists. Nope, they quote Van Gaal and then immediately nail him by reminding one and all that we have only won 3 from 13, a horrendous record. Now anybody who may have had sympathy for Van Gaal is reminded that actually, you know what, he should indeed be sacked.

Why do that? Maybe because Van Gaal has no friends at the BBC, he never tried to make any. Times like these are why you play the media game.

bucketybuck

Giggernaut wrote: »

Reckon Memphis misses Shaw most. Until the injury the two seemed to be building a decent relationship.

It was only 3 or 4 games though. Maybe Shaw would have helped Depay come along, or maybe Depay's form would have dropped off a cliff regardless, we don't really have enough info to judge.

Flint Fredstone

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If you work on the assumption LVG is telling the truth and all the press were lying about his offers to quit, then yeah - i can see why you would react like that.

Louis doesn't strike me as a man who could be talked out of quitting multiple times. Possibly once but not 2 or 3 times.
It just reeks of journalists covering their own arses when that got it wrong.

Mitch Connor

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Louis doesn't strike me as a man who could be talked out of quitting multiple times. Possibly once but not 2 or 3 times.
It just reeks of journalists covering their own arses when that got it wrong.

I personally believe it was twice, not three times.

But either way - it could be he said to Woodward - "I will resign if you want me to", to which Woodward said no. Could have happened twice, or three times. So an offer is made to resign. I very different picture to LVG saying "I quit", and being talked out of it.

I personally think it is far more like that it was an offer to resign, rather than him handing in his resignation. If he had made his mind up to quit, I don't think he would have been talked out of it once.

Lord TSC

Being linked with Ahmed Musa by Sky Sports, apparently. Leicester have been sniffing round him over the last few days...

Rossi IRL

Lord TSC wrote: »

Being linked with Ahmed Musa by Sky Sports, apparently. Leicester have been sniffing round him over the last few days...

No thanks from what i have seen of him.


Albeit only a handful of times

Mantis Toboggan

Horrible reports bla bla bla, bla bla bla
Don't care what you have to say Louis, you've ruined our club, thanks a million.

homerjay2005

bangkok wrote: »

Luke Shaw has been a massive loss to both Manchester United and to van Gaal

hmmm dunno man about that, even up until the injury the football was getting progressively worse every week. there was plenty of fans who seen the recent "run" coming, long before it happened as the signs where getting there from last season that we were just barely scraping by.

you could also say that the impact of the new signings was wearing off around mid september and shaws injury was just coincidental with this.

massive loss, but as said already, our success should not depend on a 20 year old left back.

Leroy42

You have to hand it to LVG, he certainly knows how to play the media.

Instead of getting a grilling of his teams terrible form, the money that looks wasted on players, the players showing no signs of progression. His team is abject, no flair.

Yet he makes the presser about the media and false reporting. He stoked the claims by his own admission on the post-match interview and his demeanour. Does he really think that coming out with such a defeatist attitude is going to lead people to believe that he has his own backing, never mind the players and the club?

What the hell are you trying to do, why the hell do you not like your players to play, what is wrong with trying to beat a man? How about you answer those questions? How about you explain what the 'Philosophy' of yours is about since not many can currently see what it is other than try to keep the ball in your own halve to waste as much time as possible.

jayo26

The most worrying thing that I took from the presser was lvg saying that the team played well and still lost. Wtf is that about? I see better footbsll in the local Sunday league teams.

Vic Vinegar

Lord TSC wrote: »

Being linked with Ahmed Musa by Sky Sports, apparently. Leicester have been sniffing round him over the last few days...

I always buy him in Pro Evo.... He's extremely fast, bit erratic in real life though.

TheDoc

Leroy42 wrote: »

You have to hand it to LVG, he certainly knows how to play the media.

Instead of getting a grilling of his teams terrible form, the money that looks wasted on players, the players showing no signs of progression. His team is abject, no flair.

Yet he makes the presser about the media and false reporting. He stoked the claims by his own admission on the post-match interview and his demeanour. Does he really think that coming out with such a defeatist attitude is going to lead people to believe that he has his own backing, never mind the players and the club?

What the hell are you trying to do, why the hell do you not like your players to play, what is wrong with trying to beat a man? How about you answer those questions? How about you explain what the 'Philosophy' of yours is about since not many can currently see what it is other than try to keep the ball in your own halve to waste as much time as possible.

I'd argue that the various journalists and correspondents should be asking those questions. A manager is never going to be forthright in outlining his plans and tactics, but I think when asked correctly, Van Gaal has been accommodating. The press pack can smell a firing, and they are just tunnel visioning on it.

I'd be pretty confident in that if someone asked him from the instructions and work done in training during the week, what is a key component failing in matches, he would start talking about how quickly the ball is moved. I'm convinced.

I don't for a second believe what we see, is what he wants. That is some myth that has started in the media, that fans appear to take for granted. From stories about James Wilson getting lashed out of it for trying to beat players etc.. Van Gaals biggest PR woe has not being nipping those in the bud clearly. He is clearly protective of his players, but maybe to the point where he has allowed this myth to form a false truth.

Pace and creativity, pace and creativity, speed and creativity. How many times has he allowed himself be directly quoted on where he would like to strengthen. The team isn't playing fast enough, and he knows it.

That he hasn't found a way to sort it by now though, is pretty frustrating. The writing was on the wall with Di Maria way before the summer window opened, so not sure why live after him wasn't planned a bit better

Di Maria has started to vex me more lately, seeing him play for PSG. I didn't care at the time he left because he didn't want to be here, so **** him. Now I get more annoyed about it, because he clearly just came for a year to grab a fat paycheck and sulk his way around until he got the move he wanted. Can only imagine what an inform, happy, firing Di Maria could have done for this team this year.

TheDoc

jayo26 wrote: »

The most worrying thing that I took from the presser was lvg saying that the team played well and still lost. Wtf is that about? I see better footbsll in the local Sunday league teams.

One of the first things we read about Van Gaal before his arrival was that the match he sees, can be vastly different to the one we see.

Southampton had one shot on target, and various other stats that probably encouraged him in terms of possesion and passing accuracy or whatever. the concern is if he persists in thinking the attacking issue is just a rut, or luck, and will fix itself. Needs his intervention, hands on.

Unfortunately I cannot see him breaking away from 4-2-3-1 against Derby away as he won't want to risk getting dumped out, but my god is the team crying out for some form of tactical change or intervention. He persisted with 3-5-2 for so long and only just managed to stumble or implement a change in enough time to secure 4th last season. He is leaving it awfully tight again to make a significant change to save our season.

You'd nearly want him to line up 4-4-2 at this stage, since its the formation this season catching most teams out.

homerjay2005

jayo26 wrote: »

The most worrying thing that I took from the presser was lvg saying that the team played well and still lost. Wtf is that about? I see better footbsll in the local Sunday league teams.

against Southampton??he didnt say that, did he??

honestly, no way could he say that.....it was one of the worst performances from a United team in years.

homerjay2005

TheDoc wrote: »

You'd nearly want him to line up 4-4-2 at this stage, since its the formation this season catching most teams out.

you say this, as if 4-4-2 is a bad thing, whats wrong with 4-4-2?

Strumms

4-4-2 is bizarrely a formation that seems to have gone out of fashion throughout football in the last few years seemingly with the aim of more defensive conservative football.. United were one of the best exponents of it under Fergie but you need to have the players to do it although it always led to entertaining football, great to watch. The key was two lightening quick, skillful wingers with two men inside who were all round midfielders with pace themselves, strong in the tackle and who could read the game, pick a pass and with no weakness to their game.. I don't see us going to that under LVG mostly because he is so stubborn but also because we don't really have those sort of players anymore, **** it we don't even have two first team strikers to play up front and if you were to deploy Martial there we wouldn't have two first team wingers... It's worked out really ****in well hasn't it.

Do people who find what LVG sais embarrasing find this embarrasing?

Mitch Connor

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I personally believe it was twice, not three times.

But either way - it could be he said to Woodward - "I will resign if you want me to", to which Woodward said no. Could have happened twice, or three times. So an offer is made to resign. I very different picture to LVG saying "I quit", and being talked out of it.

I personally think it is far more like that it was an offer to resign, rather than him handing in his resignation. If he had made his mind up to quit, I don't think he would have been talked out of it once.

So LVG and Woodward are in a private meeting LVG offers to resign who tells the media about it? To what gain?