Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note Post #2331

Mantis Toboggan

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Considering just how bad December was, I find it amazing we got through January without doing anything to help improve the situation.

LVG still in charge, squad is still laughably small and we are short of fit players. Incredible we haven't got in a CB or LB to help shore up the injury problem at the back.

January needed to be a big month for United. Instead, the club have sat on their hands and, imo, confirmed no CL football for next season. Well done, all round, guys.

Ah yeah but we got a few more sponsorship deals sorted so it's all grand.

IamtheWalrus

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Considering just how bad December was, I find it amazing we got through January without doing anything to help improve the situation.

LVG still in charge, squad is still laughably small and we are short of fit players. Incredible we haven't got in a CB or LB to help shore up the injury problem at the back.

January needed to be a big month for United. Instead, the club have sat on their hands and, imo, confirmed no CL football for next season. Well done, all round, guys.

You don't give a departing manager any more money.

Mitch Connor

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

You don't give a departing manager any more money.

IMO you either back a manager or you sack them. Keeping a dead man walking in charge is just stupid.

If they hav faith in him to manage United, they should have faith in him to purchase players that will benefit United either short or long term.

homerjay2005

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

You don't give a departing manager any more money.

100% true, but they should have sacked him then and moved on.

the reality is our squad is missing 3 first team players at least and then a multiple positions in the squad.

we need a first 11 center back, a winger and a creative force through midfield as well as back up right back, back up center back, another striker off the bench and a back up winger

bucketybuck

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

You don't give a departing manager any more money.

They could have actually departed him though.

StringerBell

It is very possible he simply didn't see anybody available that he wanted to bring in. Something may get done by the end of the day, but it is doubtful, always is in January. The club very rarely does much business in this window so it was always going to be more surprising to make some signings then not, other then that 16 year old lad of course!

IamtheWalrus

StringerBell wrote: »

It is very possible he simply didn't see anybody available that he wanted to bring in. Something may get done by the end of the day, but it is doubtful, always is in January. The club very rarely does much business in this window so it was always going to be more surprising to make some signings then not, other then that 16 year old lad of course!

I think this is probably closer to the truth.

StringerBell

On a personal note, I do wish someone could have been brought in. The squad could do with that boost a new arrival can bring with him and lift the place.

bucketybuck

StringerBell wrote: »

The club very rarely does much business in this window so it was always going to be more surprising to make some signings then not

Including fringe players the club has something like 21/22 senior players and according to physioroom 7 of them are currently injured.

This wasn't a case of tweaking the squad with new arrivals, that squad needs reinforcements and it needs them badly, new signings would not have been surprising in the slightest.

But as usual things that seem obvious to those looking on don't seem to be apparent to those within the club. Must be why they are doing so well.

Lord TSC

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

You don't give a departing manager any more money.

Do wonder if this is a big case of whats happening.

Reckon most can see he's gone in the summer, one way or the other. While I understand the sentiment of "Then get rid of him now", our only options now are Giggs and Jose; realistically, anyone at a club right now aren't going to move midseason. They'll wait till summer and take over a squad they can shape themselves, and by not spending now, I guess we give his replacement a better summer kitty.

Don't get me wrong, I want LVG gone. But I can understand the thinking that might be occurring with regards not trusting Giggs to do any better, and/or not wanting the Jose "circus". I don't agree, but I can understand.

Mitch Connor

Lord TSC wrote: »

Do wonder if this is a big case of whats happening.

Reckon most can see he's gone in the summer, one way or the other. While I understand the sentiment of "Then get rid of him now", our only options now are Giggs and Jose; realistically, anyone at a club right now aren't going to move midseason. They'll wait till summer and take over a squad they can shape themselves, and by not spending now, I guess we give his replacement a better summer kitty.

Don't get me wrong, I want LVG gone. But I can understand the thinking that might be occurring with regards not trusting Giggs to do any better, and/or not wanting the Jose "circus". I don't agree, but I can understand.

BUt by doing absolutely nothgin they are pinning their hopes on a massive turn-around from LVG to get us into 4th. If we don't get 4th then attracting a top manager and top players is going to be very difficult. especially considering it will be the second time in 3 years we have failed to qualify for the CL. Failure to qualify is becoming a trend rather than a blip.

ericzeking

IMO we've already sacked LVG and appointed the caretaker manager who also happens to be LVG....

Korat

It's surprising that a club of Utd's stature can't find an improvement on Blind or Fellaini.

StringerBell

bucketybuck wrote: »

Including fringe players the club has something like 21/22 senior players and according to physioroom 7 of them are currently injured.

This wasn't a case of tweaking the squad with new arrivals, that squad needs reinforcements and it needs them badly, new signings would not have been surprising in the slightest.

But as usual things that seem obvious to those looking on don't seem to be apparent to those within the club. Must be why they are doing so well.

I agree we could do with reinforcements, I still feel its not surprising the club didn't do any real business, I never expect them to in January.

New additions would not have been shocking, but nobody coming in is about as equally unsurprising to me anyway.

homerjay2005

Lord TSC wrote: »

Do wonder if this is a big case of whats happening.

Reckon most can see he's gone in the summer, one way or the other. While I understand the sentiment of "Then get rid of him now", our only options now are Giggs and Jose; realistically, anyone at a club right now aren't going to move midseason. They'll wait till summer and take over a squad they can shape themselves, and by not spending now, I guess we give his replacement a better summer kitty.

Don't get me wrong, I want LVG gone. But I can understand the thinking that might be occurring with regards not trusting Giggs to do any better, and/or not wanting the Jose "circus". I don't agree, but I can understand.

i think its more to do with money than anything else, based off the following -

• our actual outlay on transfers last summer was very small for a club of our size- it was about £28m which is way below what everybody expected us to spend. had DDG deal not fallen through at the last minute, our spending would have been £8m.
• getting rid of about £50m of players wages last summer.
• Woodward saying the majority of squad work was now done in the EOY financials.

i think our intention this summer was to only sign 1 or 2 "big names" and that be it. a massive rethink of that is needed now.


you also have the reality that a financial plan is in place for the next 3 years or more and the Glazers are not going to want to move away from that - it doesnt involve sacking LVG, it doenst involve hiring a new manager (Giggs wont cost any money for example), it doesnt involve having to pay redundancy money to coaching staff etc etc. a new manager also would want to reshape the squad and spend £100m-£200m plus and probably gut the current squad.

we have gambled on LVG, Woodward has hedged all his bets on him and he cant go back on this now....well he can, but when he does it will be too late.

Chris_Bradley

Signings are required to have a chance of CL.

Surely to God a decent signing is worth a Jan investment & very much required?

Chris_Bradley

Signings are required to have a chance of CL.

Surely to God a decent signing is worth a Jan investment & very much required?

StringerBell

Money has been shown not to be an issue tbh, the window where Di Maria et al came in has shown that.

If Van Gaal was being hamstrung financially there is no better manager in world football to tell you that explicitly. He is not a company man and says what he thinks.

He has been very complimentary of Woodward and this would not be the case if he was being told he couldn't spend money that he wanted, it is far more likely that he has full control over transfers (rumours of him veto-ing a move for a player in this window) and if he wants to spend he can, if he chooses not to it is down to him.

StringerBell

Money has been shown not to be an issue tbh, the window where Di Maria et al came in has shown that.

If Van Gaal was being hamstrung financially there is no better manager in world football to tell you that explicitly. He is not a company man and says what he thinks.

He has been very complimentary of Woodward and this would not be the case if he was being told he couldn't spend money that he wanted, it is far more likely that he has full control over transfers (rumours of him veto-ing a move for a player in this window) and if he wants to spend he can, if he chooses not to it is down to him.

Mitch Connor

StringerBell wrote: »

Money has been shown not to be an issue tbh, the window where Di Maria et al came in has shown that.

If Van Gaal was being hamstrung financially there is no better manager in world football to tell you that explicitly. He is not a company man and says what he thinks.

He has been very complimentary of Woodward and this would not be the case if he was being told he couldn't spend money that he wanted, it is far more likely that he has full control over transfers (rumours of him veto-ing a move for a player in this window) and if he wants to spend he can, if he chooses not to it is down to him.

2 or 3 deals nixed by him is what I have heard. Though I have heard no names.

KH25

Mitch Connor wrote: »

BUt by doing absolutely nothgin they are pinning their hopes on a massive turn-around from LVG to get us into 4th. If we don't get 4th then attracting a top manager and top players is going to be very difficult. especially considering it will be the second time in 3 years we have failed to qualify for the CL. Failure to qualify is becoming a trend rather than a blip.

I'd agree with this thinking. If we haven't bought anyone because the money is not being made available, then the club is shooting itself in the foot. Regardless of whether LVG will go in summer, if he's to stay on for this season he needs to be given the resources to improve the team and get at least 4th.

Lord TSC

Mitch Connor wrote: »

BUt by doing absolutely nothgin they are pinning their hopes on a massive turn-around from LVG to get us into 4th. If we don't get 4th then attracting a top manager and top players is going to be very difficult. especially considering it will be the second time in 3 years we have failed to qualify for the CL. Failure to qualify is becoming a trend rather than a blip.

Not disagreeing with that. It's a massive gamble. I guess that the three options though are...
1. Keep LVG till the summer, hope he gets top 4. Has the CV to suggest he can, even if he's struggling (understatement). See who is available in the summer.
2. Sack him, give Giggs the role; zero experience so nothing to suggest he has a better chance than LVG of achieving top 4. Also could nuke his long term prospects as a manager if he does worse than LVG.
3. Sack LVG, bring in Jose, commit to Jose for 2-3 years minimum, hope he can get top 4 with a team that isn't his, has the experience to say he could do it, but runs risk of media circus down the line.

With those three options on the table right now, it strikes me Woodward wants to go with option 1. Think Option 2 will not be a realistic one at all. Option three could be forced upon him if open revolts break out at Old Trafford.

But for now, I think he wants option one, so as to open up more options in the summer, be it someone like Pep (who I'd think is unrealistic, but who knows) or a Ponchetto or someone of his ilk. And Jose will probably still be an option come the summer as well. And the club is willing to risk CL football in a bid to keep those options open.

I guess my point is that while many, myself included, want Jose now, Woody and the club seem to want to not rush into a decision that slams doors shut in the summer. I stress, I want Jose, and I want him 1 month ago. But if they don't, then it cuts out option 3 from the above for now

Lord TSC

https://twitter.com/GuillemBalague/status/694112147211706368?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Balague: Rubbish story of the day: the rumours about Mata. He is staying put, doesn't want to go, United don't want to sell at all

When Balague is calling your story rubbish, you know you're doing something right :pac:

homerjay2005

Lord TSC wrote: »

https://twitter.com/GuillemBalague/status/694112147211706368?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Balague: Rubbish story of the day: the rumours about Mata. He is staying put, doesn't want to go, United don't want to sell at all

When Balague is calling your story rubbish, you know you're doing something right :pac:

if we could get €25m for Mata in the summer, we should ship him out. along with Fellaini and 1 or 2 more. Mata just has not worked out, as Neville said he is not a Manchester United type player and its proved to be correct.

the problem is, given the mess they made last summer of squad manager, you'd not trust them to repalce them and the reality is that we need to add 3 or 4 players to the squad, not reduce it.

cant see us singing another 5 or 6 players this summer again.

bucketybuck

Lord TSC wrote: »

Not disagreeing with that. It's a massive gamble. I guess that the three options though are...
1. Keep LVG till the summer, hope he gets top 4. Has the CV to suggest he can, even if he's struggling (understatement). See who is available in the summer.
2. Sack him, give Giggs the role; zero experience so nothing to suggest he has a better chance than LVG of achieving top 4. Also could nuke his long term prospects as a manager if he does worse than LVG.
3. Sack LVG, bring in Jose, commit to Jose for 2-3 years minimum, hope he can get top 4 with a team that isn't his, has the experience to say he could do it, but runs risk of media circus down the line.

With those three options on the table right now

Why is there not option 4: Sack LVG and bring in somebody other than Jose or Giggs?

I'm not about to spout various names but is it asking too much for the club to have some sense of who is out there in the managerial circles? Its not like there wouldn't be hundreds of people interested in the job.

markcahill1985

Utd being linked with a loan move for Debuchy now! WOuld rather let Varela and Borthwick Jackson develop than bring in a signing of that ilk.

Mitch Connor

homerjay2005 wrote: »

if we could get €25m for Mata in the summer, we should ship him out. along with Fellaini and 1 or 2 more. Mata just has not worked out, as Neville said he is not a Manchester United type player and its proved to be correct.

To me, that is such a BS statement. He isn't a flying winger like Giggs or Kanchelskis so isn't a United player in Neville's mind.

Yeah, he isn't a fcuking winger - and hasn't done well out there. You can even argue he is struggling in general but its nothing to do with being a 'United' type player or not.

He is one of a number of offensive players that have struggled under van gaal.

Rooney, not a United type player I guess.
Memphis, not a United type player I guess.
Januzaj, not a United type player I guess.
Van Persie, not a United type player I guess.
Di Maria, not a United type player I guess.

I just can't see a good argument for selling Mata. HE is a very talented football, which we aren't getting the best out of. Maybe we should fook LVG out the door in the summer and get in a new manager; and see if they can come up with a way of getting talented footballers to play good football at United.

Get a right winger in and play them on the right, a winger on the left, Martial through the centre with a central three of Schneiderlin, Herrera and Mata. Allow the lot to try things, be creative and expansive and see what happens. Selling Mata just means we have lost yet another player with a bit of creativity to them. Playing him wide and looking for him to loop crosses in isn't going to get the best out of him.

You've said we should have kept a player like Nani (which I agree with) and then want to cut and run on Mata, I just don't get it.

Lord TSC

bucketybuck wrote: »

Why is there not option 4: Sack LVG and bring in somebody other than Jose or Giggs?

I'm not about to spout various names but is it asking too much for the club to have some sense of who is out there in the managerial circles? Its not like there wouldn't be hundreds of people interested in the job.

Sure, I would guarantee there are. Doesn't mean they are the right people for the job. I'd argue that we need a world class, or at least potential to be world class, manager, and I would be confident that the club would know exactly who is available and who isn't right now. And I can't imagine there's many, if any, top level managers who are willing to bail midseason.

markcahill1985

markcahill1985 wrote: »

Utd being linked with a loan move for Debuchy now! WOuld rather let Varela and Borthwick Jackson develop than bring in a signing of that ilk.

Source?

Lord TSC

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Source?

The Mirror. Sky Sports have it on their online ticker too, quoting the Mirror.

Rossi IRL

Lord TSC wrote: »

https://twitter.com/GuillemBalague/status/694112147211706368?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Balague: Rubbish story of the day: the rumours about Mata. He is staying put, doesn't want to go, United don't want to sell at all

When Balague is calling your story rubbish, you know you're doing something right :pac:

If Ballbag is saying Mata is not leaving, that means he is leaving. He spouts some shïté

Lord TSC

Lord TSC wrote: »

The Mirror. Sky Sports have it on their online ticker too, quoting the Mirror.

So it's BS then.
Kinda pisses me off

SSN never report on tabloid stuff unless they have an inside source or unless they hear something official.

However on Deadline day it's ok to do so. Sure **** it lets peg it in there anyway

Rossi IRL

Rossi IRL wrote: »

If Ballbag is saying Mata is not leaving, that means he is leaving. He spouts some ****é

:pac::pac:

I'm trying to keep in down in the office

bangkok

Rossi IRL wrote: »

If Ballbag is saying Mata is not leaving, that means he is leaving. He spouts some shïté

he doesn't really

brinty

M!Ck^ wrote: »

:pac::pac:

I'm trying to keep in down in the office

You've got to love a bit of ballbag....

markcahill1985

M!Ck^ wrote: »

So it's BS then.
Kinda pisses me off

SSN never report on tabloid stuff unless they have an inside source or unless they hear something official.

However on Deadline day it's ok to do so. Sure **** it lets peg it in there anyway

L'Equipe have it too, Arsenal want permanent transfer but Utd want loan, Debuchy sees it as ideal move for Euros, backed into 2/1 from 25/1 with bookies as well (I know this means nothing)

Mitch Connor

Seen it mentioned by a couple of people that would have me thinking there is something to it.

I would sooner have him at right back than Jones, McNair or Valencia. But, I would have him behind Darmian, and I think Varela shows flashes of promise so would be against popping a loanee ahead of him in the pecking order.

If we were to buy a defender (rather than loan) I would say it has to be a CB, but doubt we could get a top level one (to allow us to move Blind to left back and keep Darmian at right back).

Signing a top quality CB would solve a few positional issues, imo.

Mitch Connor

Seen it mentioned by a couple of people that would have me thinking there is something to it.

I would sooner have him at right back than Jones, McNair or Valencia. But, I would have him behind Darmian, and I think Varela shows flashes of promise so would be against popping a loanee ahead of him in the pecking order.

If we were to buy a defender (rather than loan) I would say it has to be a CB, but doubt we could get a top level one (to allow us to move Blind to left back and keep Darmian at right back).

Signing a top quality CB would solve a few positional issues, imo.

grames_bond

Seems Martial doesnt have the hang of twitter!

https://twitter.com/AnthonyMartial/status/694127582695067649

@AnthonyMartial

Also:

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/694127869346340864

The victims of the Munich air disaster will be remembered during Tuesday's home game v Stoke, with the players to wear black armbands.
Flowers of Manchester' will be sung under the memorial clock at 19:00 GMT and a special banner will be unfurled in the Stretford End Lower.

Rossi IRL

Id rather not have Debuchy.

We have plenty of options at right back at the moment.

Could do with a left back on loan though.

Darmians injury isnt as bad as expected and Varela is showing plenty of promise. Still have Young and Valencia to come back as what i see now as 3rd and 4th choice righ backs.

Left back we have Shaw who is injured and CBJ who i still have my doubts over but he is doing well when he plays. Rojo is injured aswell.

Wouldnt of minded somebody like ashley cole for the rest of the season even though i hate the guy.

Lord TSC

Wonder would the idea be Debuchy on the right and Darmian on the left till everyone is fit again?

bangkok

Debuchy is way too slow. Verela looked good the other night, id rather give him a bit more time in the first team

Lord TSC

Lord TSC wrote: »

Wonder would the idea be Debuchy on the right and Darmian on the left till everyone is fit again?

I really liked the injection of pace Valera provided in attack. Was very evident even though it was only Derby but still.

Would like to see him start against Stoke to see if he can repeat this. I might be overly optimistic but I would hope the above wouldn't impact his chance in the first 11.

homerjay2005

Mitch Connor wrote: »

To me, that is such a BS statement. He isn't a flying winger like Giggs or Kanchelskis so isn't a United player in Neville's mind.

Yeah, he isn't a fcuking winger - and hasn't done well out there. You can even argue he is struggling in general but its nothing to do with being a 'United' type player or not.

He is one of a number of offensive players that have struggled under van gaal.

Rooney, not a United type player I guess.
Memphis, not a United type player I guess.
Januzaj, not a United type player I guess.
Van Persie, not a United type player I guess.
Di Maria, not a United type player I guess.

I just can't see a good argument for selling Mata. HE is a very talented football, which we aren't getting the best out of. Maybe we should fook LVG out the door in the summer and get in a new manager; and see if they can come up with a way of getting talented footballers to play good football at United.

Get a right winger in and play them on the right, a winger on the left, Martial through the centre with a central three of Schneiderlin, Herrera and Mata. Allow the lot to try things, be creative and expansive and see what happens. Selling Mata just means we have lost yet another player with a bit of creativity to them. Playing him wide and looking for him to loop crosses in isn't going to get the best out of him.

You've said we should have kept a player like Nani (which I agree with) and then want to cut and run on Mata, I just don't get it.

jeez man, you need to relax a little bit...your about to burst a few vessels.

Mata has not worked for us, his performances this season have been poor no matter where he is playing. he cost £37.5m and it has not proven to be a good investment.

i would think he has been one of our poorest performers this season for somebody who has played so many games.

Rayne Wooney

The comparisons with Spurs really show how badly Van Gaal is doing. They have clearly improved over a season with Pochettino, it is what you expect from a good manager, 6 points behind us at the end last season they conceded 53 goals, more than any other team in the top 13. They were 5th top on goals scored with 58, now they are 5 points ahead of us with 15 games to go conceded only 19, the best in the league, but still scored the third highest goals in the league whilst usually playing entertaining football.

That is improvement, the difference of a hundred million between the two managers' net spend only makes things worse. Under Van Gaal we have not improved at all, our results have varied but our performances have been consistently dire for almost two years now.

Nalz

homerjay2005 wrote: »

jeez man, you need to relax a little bit...your about to burst a few vessels.

Mata has not worked for us, his performances this season have been poor no matter where he is playing. he cost £37.5m and it has not proven to be a good investment.

i would think he has been one of our poorest performers this season for somebody who has played so many games.

Slightly ott Homer imo but all and all I agree with your main point. He's not produced at the level he should have.

Even is deadballs have been awful. Has he scored a freekick for us? How many assists has he got from freekicks?

Doubt its entirely his fault but its not worked to near the level expected so far.

On the lash since friday anything Man Utd related happen, any signings any firings. Is the transfer window closed? Are those my feet?

Flint Fredstone

If we were to get rid of players on the basis of how they have performed in the same period Mata has been at the club we would probably have 3 players left.

ElChe32

****Manuel Pellegrini says he will leave Manchester City at the end of the season.****

Pep to city done and dusted so...

Lol pep has been confirmed now