Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note Post #2331

Crimson King

This team built is well capable of going on a significant run once VG is gone.

keeponhurling

Alex Meier wrote: »

How is it that good players like Arnautovic, Shaqiri, Bojan Krkic & Afellay are playing for Stoke whilst United are stuck with the likes of Depay, Martial, Felliani & Blind (players who, quite frankly, are not good enough to play for United)?

Depay was best player at PSV
Martial recently awarded best young player in Europe
Fellaini was Everton's best player
Blind was superb at Ajax and for Netherlands in the World Cup

Yet somehow they all seem rubbish in recent weeks

Mars Bar

Alex Meier wrote: »

Both their performances yesterday were crazy bad. . . .

That's a terrible justification for your post. You can't seriously write off a 20 and 21 year old in their first season in a tough league, who are playing in a team which isn't functioning in any department on the field.

adox

Martial is one of the most exciting prospects signed by Utd since Ronaldo. In fact I'd say he is the most exciting prospect signed by Utd since Ronaldo.

Deciding his fate based on one game( not that I thought he was overly bad yesterday) is pure folly

He has all the tools to be a superstar in the coming years IMO.

Alex Meier

keeponhurling wrote: »

Depay was best player at PSV
Martial recently awarded best young player in Europe
Fellaini was Everton's best player
Blind was superb at Ajax and for Netherlands in the World Cup

Yet somehow they all seem rubbish in recent weeks

The Eredivisie is not a quality league at present. . . The Dutch national team failed to reach Euro2016.

Don't get me started on Felliani. . . How that guy is a Manchester United player . . .

These players may be good players but are they good enough for United?

From watching their performances I don't think so and the blame is entirely placed on the manager's philosophy/system when really he has just bought poorly. It could very well be the case that sixth place is their level.

RobertKK

I had an uncle who did not rate Ronaldo in his earlier days, nor did the son who is a season ticket holder. I would disagree with them.

Martial is so young still as is Memphis. They have a long way to go till they hit what should be the peak age for performance in their careers.

Flint Fredstone

Don't bite lads and lassies.

Hococop

Alex Meier wrote: »

The Eredivisie is not a quality league at present. . . The Dutch national team failed to reach Euro2016.

Don't get me started on Felliani. . . How that guy is a Manchester United player . . .

These players may be good players but are they good enough for United?

From watching their performances I don't think so and the blame is entirely placed on the manager's philosophy/system when really he has just bought poorly. It could very well be the case that sixth place is their level.

Who should we get then, what players and manager ?

Alex Meier

Hococop wrote: »

Who should we get then, what players and manager ?

Jose Mourinho should be given the job with the priority being Champions League qualification.

RobertKK

Alex Meier wrote: »

Jose Mourinho should be given the job with the priority being Champions League qualification.

So concentrate on the league and the Europa league.

Alex Meier

The technically best and most skilful players in Europe are playing in Germany and Spain. . . . Not the Dutch and French leagues.

Very difficult to sign players from teams like Bayern, Real, Barcelona. . . especially given United's current predicament.

But players like Marco Reus, Aubameyang, Draxler. . . Even Andre Schurrle was picked up by Wolfsburg.

yabadabado

Cast and wait:o

embarrassing at this stage.

Mitch Connor

I think United need to bring in a Director of Football, or something similar - to drive the footballing vision of the club. Hell, even hire one of the Class of 92 lads, or someone like that.

The lack of vision at the club is at the route of our problems imo. Our youth structures are behind the times and rated poorly; a number of United or United-affiliated players have their kids at City's academy, which speaks volumes imo. Just look at the new academy set up City have - it is amazing. Yes, you can point to City not bringing any players through, but that really isn't the point, imo. Look at the Pep Guardiola situation, I can see him picking City because their club is set up with ambition and vision - United are working from one transfer window to the next.

If we can get the right type of football leadership at the top of the club, everything else will follow with it, imo.

I'm an advocate of Mourinho to be brought in, but he would very much be a fire fighter - I don't see him being a manager to change the culture and vision of the club for the long term. At the moment, we need Woodward to drive such vision and structural change - but 3 years into his reign at the club and there is no evidence of him having the desire to make the changes required.

The Glazers clearly trust Woodward, so I don't see him going anywhere, but it would be better if the running of Manchester United as a business (which is what Woodward appears to thrive at) was separated from the running of Manchester United as a football club.

yabadabado

I think you are spot on there Mitch.
I think United need to bring in someone to do the footballing equivalent of what Woody does for the business/commercial side.

The biggest thing is United need to decide where they want to go footballing wise,implement a style and structures from the ground up.

bucketybuck

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Yes it is important, your post just comes across as cynical

It's like some of you want to rub the "I told you so" in people's faces because they continue to show faith till the very end

I imagine many other fans and myself included want utd to beat Chelsea regardless what you may think, whatever the situation may be losing is losing and never feels good

It would be a nice send off for lvg also, he's a great figure in the game and has a long and decorated career and I have huge respect for him.

And at what point did I say I didn't want us to beat Chelsea?

One mans cynical is another mans realistic, I'm not wrong to point out that one result doesn't change the bigger picture for any club. Do you think Leicester losing diminished their achievements up to this weekend? Would an Aston Villa win mean they were about to go on a big run and avoid relegation? Is losing to Stoke in and of itself the worst result ever?

Beat Chelsea and no doubt some people will be claiming we have turned a corner, I'm just pointing out that it won't necessarily be the case. A win or a defeat tomorrow won't change the previous 18 months of poor performance.

And once again, where did I say I wanted to lose? Anything you think about people rubbing it in is in your own head.

On a different note, I couldn't give a toss if this isn't a nice send off for Van Gaal in his last job. We don't owe him anything, it isn't our job to carry him along until he gets to retire with a smile.

Alex Meier

Mourinho's record as a manager against United:

P20 W9 D9 L2 F23 A13

More than impressive

According to the ST:

FLORENTINO PEREZ, the Real Madrid president, has offered Jose Mourinho his old job back at the Bernabeu in a long-term deal as an immediate replacement for Rafael Benitez.

Mourinho, who was sacked as manager of Chelsea earlier this month, is considering the approach to return to the club he voluntarily left two-and-a-half years ago, but is understood to prefer a move to Manchester United should the Premier League side convert their own interest in his services into a formal offer.

That prospect increased yesterday as United ran up a fourth straight defeat under the increasingly embattled Louis Van Gaal.

Mitch Connor

yabadabado wrote: »

I think you are spot on there Mitch.
I think United need to bring in someone to do the footballing equivalent of what Woody does for the business/commercial side.

The biggest thing is United need to decide where they want to go footballing wise,implement a style and structures from the ground up.

What from I have read about the behind the scenes stuff - it is actually a big part of the reason LVG still has a job. The club hierarchy feel he is doing a very good job at changing the vision of the club from youths up - but obvioulsy this isn't helping the first team at the moment and not something anyone outside the club can quantify. It may also be BS, and just an excuse used for not binning him.

But at the end of the day, I don't think it can be expected of a manager to drive a club to such a degree anymore - it would be surprising if we got another batch of Wengers/Fergies - people who have the time and vision to mold a club around their vision. If a manager is going to change every 5 years or so (which is what we tend to see at the top level) there needs to be someone there to drive and implement a 10/20 year vision.

When I see what City are doing in terms of academy structures, i'm jealous that United - which has built the mythology of the club on youth development - are miles behind them and currently showing no signs of following suit.

ericzeking

I can't believe that some people are saying the squad needs even more work for any new manager. We've done a clear out, spent a lot and have some very good players.

Our problems are tactical and psychological.

I would expect any potential new manager worth his salt to be able to fashion these players into a side capable of beating Norwich at home.

yabadabado

ericzeking wrote: »

I can't believe that some people are saying the squad needs even more work for any new manager. We've done a clear out, spent a lot and have some very good players.

Our problems are tactical and psychological.

I would expect any potential new manager worth his salt to be able to fashion these players into a side capable of beating Norwich at home.

I dont think the team needs a huge overhaul but it still needs a few additions to it.More pace upfront is a necessity and 1 or 2 squad players also.The squad is paper thin now .

United have the bones of a good first XI and I dont expect any major signings in January but one or two astute additions could make a huge difference

Adamocovic

Huge game tomorrow, I'm hoping the players show up and entertain us but I won't hold me breath. Despite how bad a run LVG has had, if we get a good win tomorrow and things go our way to move us up the table then talk will change slightly and hopefully we would find a good run. A loss and it's hard to see him still with us for the next game.

My head however is telling me we won't get an entertaining and good result.

Mitch Connor

ericzeking wrote: »

I can't believe that some people are saying the squad needs even more work for any new manager.

I would expect any potential new manager worth his salt to be able to fashion these players into a side capable of beating Norwich at home.

Your points are not related though.

Yes, I would expect a manager should be capable of getting this United side to beat Norwich at home. But that is not the barometer of success. If we want to win the CL, or even reasonably compete for it, the squad is lacking in a number of areas.

who_ru

How come Mark Hughes is never mentioned as the next Utd manager? Doesn't he play the type of game fans want, he knows the club inside out, and has the experience needed.

sky88

who_ru wrote: »

How come Mark Hughes is never mentioned as the next Utd manager? Doesn't he play the type of game fans want, he knows the club inside out, and has the experience needed.

Because he's not good enough. Failed with city when given money to spend. Bought average on huge prices.

I think like moyes he's a good manager but should be no one near the top teams

Mitch Connor

who_ru wrote: »

How come Mark Hughes is never mentioned as the next Utd manager? Doesn't he play the type of game fans want, he knows the club inside out, and has the experience needed.

I would suggest managing, and failing at, City is part of the reason. Did poorly at QPR too.

I also thought he took some cheap shots at United while manager of City. Sure you could say it somewhat expected of a City manager, but it would sit poorly with me if he was then given the United job.

He is doing a great job at Stoke, to be fair to him. Smart transfers, for the most part, and playing good football - changing the style of the club quite dramatically in a short enough period.

Mitch Connor

sky88 wrote: »

Because he's not good enough. Failed with city when given money to spend. Bought average on huge prices.

I think like moyes he's a good manager but should be no one near the top teams

He may have learned and grown from that experience though. Just as players improve over time, you have to allow for manager to do the same.

I'm not saying make him the next manager, but while his City experience is not a good part of his CV, but you should also acknowledge the current job he is doing at Stoke.

Yes, could be another Moyes, but it could be he has improved as a manager and learned from his mistakes.

Nalz

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Don't bite lads and lassies.

my greasemonkey total ignore script works a treat :)

ericzeking

ericzeking wrote: »

I can't believe that some people are saying the squad needs even more work for any new manager. We've done a clear out, spent a lot and have some very good players.

Our problems are tactical and psychological.

I would expect any potential new manager worth his salt to be able to fashion these players into a side capable of beating Norwich at home.

There are definitely enough players there who can be shaped into a team who aren't beaten by Bournemouth, Norwich and Stoke consecutively. However I would argue there is still an addition or three to be made to the squad no matter who the manager is in order to take this club back to being one that wins and dominates.

You're right though, a lot of the problems we are seeing at the moment are psychological and tactical, and this current group of players are capable of so much more.

StringerBell

who_ru wrote: »

How come Mark Hughes is never mentioned as the next Utd manager? Doesn't he play the type of game fans want, he knows the club inside out, and has the experience needed.

He has been mentioned here a lot lately, he never gets mentioned much in the media due to various reasons including but not limited to, he managed City, he has not done well at clubs when he has had money to spend but has done very well on limited budgets (I do excuse his City transfers mainly) he has not won trophies as a manager, he managed City and he managed City

StringerBell

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I would suggest managing, and failing at, City is part of the reason. Did poorly at QPR too.

I also thought he took some cheap shots at United while manager of City. Sure you could say it somewhat expected of a City manager, but it would sit poorly with me if he was then given the United job.

He is doing a great job at Stoke, to be fair to him. Smart transfers, for the most part, and playing good football - changing the style of the club quite dramatically in a short enough period.

Love Hughes, but I agree its the City period that would stop me wanting him to have the job, a club legend and I would be very interested to see how it went if it ever happened as I think he is a better manager now then he was at City (obv) but there are certain things club legends should not do really and he blotted his name a bit during the City period, think he finished any chance he had of getting a shot at the United job in that time.

StringerBell

StringerBell wrote: »

Love Hughes, but I agree its the City period that would stop me wanting him to have the job, a club legend and I would be very interested to see how it went if it ever happened as I think he is a better manager now then he was at City (obv) but there are certain things club legends should not do really and he blotted his name a bit during the City period, think he finished any chance he had of getting a shot at the United job in that time.

I don't think he disrespected Utd during his City career though? City connections haven't mattered in the past with managers and players. Once he picks up results fans won't care too much. He'll always be known more for his time at Utd.

He could well be a great fit at Utd. Knows the club and fans would get behind him.

StringerBell

RoboKlopp wrote: »

I don't think he disrespected Utd during his City career though? City connections haven't mattered in the past with managers and players. Once he picks up results fans won't care too much. He'll always be known more for his time at Utd.

He could well be a great fit at Utd. Knows the club and fans would get behind him.

Plenty of potential positives alright, and some significant negatives.

Regardless I don't think he will be considered anytime soon, certainly not next.

sReq | uTeK

Alex Meier wrote: »

The Eredivisie is not a quality league at present. . . The Dutch national team failed to reach Euro2016.

Don't get me started on Felliani. . . How that guy is a Manchester United player . . .

These players may be good players but are they good enough for United?

From watching their performances I don't think so and the blame is entirely placed on the manager's philosophy/system when really he has just bought poorly. It could very well be the case that sixth place is their level.

Bangkoks girlfriend ?

Headshot

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Bangkoks girlfriend ?

His child

SlickRic

I would fully support Mark Hughes being appointed.

irishfeen

Marca journalist putting his head above the parapet.. "Mourinho sits on the bench of the Manchester United next week"

https://twitter.com/pipiestrada1/status/680755996046811137

Headshot

SlickRic wrote: »

I would fully support Mark Hughes being appointed.

Id say every Liverpool fan would too lol

Lucky the board have more sense then some fans asking for Mark

StringerBell

SlickRic wrote: »

I would fully support Mark Hughes being appointed.

Ahead of Van Gaal staying in charge?

Mitch Connor

SlickRic wrote: »

I would fully support Mark Hughes being appointed.

As you are a closet United fan i'm not sure how to read this, slick.

My Dad is a chelsea fan and he is actually talking up Hughes and Pardew as appointments for Chelsea.

adox

What Utd need now(well post Van Gaal) is the least risky option as the next manager. The safest pair of hands most likely to bring silverware.

There's only two shows in town for that. Mourhino and Pep.

I would be genuinely astonished if one of them isn't the next Utd manager although Utd do need to move quickly for either one or possibly face losing out on both.

Lord TSC

adox wrote: »

What Utd need now(well post Van Gaal) is the least risky option as the next manager. The safest pair of hands most likely to bring silverware.

There's only two shows in town for that. Mourhino and Pep.

I would be genuinely astonished if one of them isn't the next Utd manager although Utd do need to move quickly for either one or possibly face losing out on both.

Just hope we don't spend months trying to court Pep, only to lose him and Jose. Would sum up our transfer abilities to a tee.

StringerBell

That's what Van Gaal was though, safest pair of hands available, I think we should go down the DOF route for the next appointment, bring in that first and then appoint the manager that best fits the clubs philosophy going forward. I have no doubt Van Gaal is doing great work with the structure behind the scenes but he isn't going to last with the results and a more permanent person for that job would be beneficial imo

StringerBell

StringerBell wrote: »

That's what Van Gaal was though, safest pair of hands available, I think we should go down the DOF route for the next appointment, bring in that first and then appoint the manager that best fits the clubs philosophy going forward. I have no doubt Van Gaal is doing great work with the structure behind the scenes but he isn't going to last with the results and a more permanent person for that job would be beneficial imo

Yep, Van Gaal was seen as a very safe appointment and I'd say the majority of fans were delighted with it. He almost guaranteed silverware going by his record..

SlickRic

Mitch Connor wrote: »

As you are a closet United fan i'm not sure how to read this, slick.

My Dad is a chelsea fan and he is actually talking up Hughes and Pardew as appointments for Chelsea.

Hughes is not the right man if you're a Utd fan.

Hughes or Pardew would be massively risky appointments.

Hughes has proven he can't really spend money well at the top end, and Pardew is just plain risky.

It's one thing buying cast offs from big clubs and making a formerly mediocre team a good one. It's a totally different job to manage a club expected to win.

Van Gaal was a good appointment. Another character is needed now who can handle the expectation. Utd can't go back to another Moyes type appointment. It's easy to be seduced by managers who are doing impressive things with Stoke, Palace, Leicester, Watford or whoever. There's no expectation on them though. They've a ton of money, and at most they expect midtable.

As a rival fan, I'd much rather see Hughes or Pardew in the Utd dugout than Mourinho, Pep or Simeone. I'd even be more worried about Blanc if he arrived, even though the French league is no great shakes.

Hughes and Pardew have no real track record for this kind of job. Don't forget that.

Drumpot

StringerBell wrote: »

That's what Van Gaal was though, safest pair of hands available, I think we should go down the DOF route for the next appointment, bring in that first and then appoint the manager that best fits the clubs philosophy going forward. I have no doubt Van Gaal is doing great work with the structure behind the scenes but he isn't going to last with the results and a more permanent person for that job would be beneficial imo

I find it odd that most people presume most of the signings have been van gaal. Shaw and Herrera were signed before he even joined. I'm not convinced the majority of players signed in his first season were hand picked by him.

I'm also not convinced United don't have a sort of DOF system behind the scenes. It's a dirty word in England and it would make more sense to not telegraph it. If you think about it, it also means less anger towards the owners and more focused on the manager if things go wrong.

With that in mind, does anybody think this squad of players is good enough for uniteds supposed high targets? Could any manager make this squad successful? I don't think LVG decided on many of these players. itd not like football manager where you pick and choose any player you want.

I believe Woodward has huge question marks over his competency. But as usual he gets a pass because the book stops at LVG. Like the asshole in your office that always seems to get away with murder while you get pulled up on every little thing, Teflon Woodward is exempt and protected from criticism.

Mitch Connor

With Pep and Mourinho I see the ongoing issues being structural.

Mourinho won't fix the structural issues at United - he woundn't drive that change, imo.

Pep won't cme becuase of the structural issues imo - City are a far better set up club for the future than United, in almost every way. Not only is the City job an easier one in general terms, but they will be easier going forward too.

StringerBell

There are plenty of clubs in England who have a DOF though, and United is not one of those teams at the moment. Van Gaal decides on players, gives the list to Woodward who tries to get the deals done. Its the same as the model we had under Fergie.

Teflon Woodward? I dunno, pretty much delivers anything he has been asked to do by the looks of it by all reasonable measurements.

IamtheWalrus

Maybe Utd need a DOF. I'd question a lot of Lvg's transfer activity. Signing Depay, letting the forwards go, buying an out-of-date German. Hmm.

Drumpot

StringerBell wrote: »

There are plenty of clubs in England who have a DOF though, and United is not one of those teams at the moment. Van Gaal decides on players, gives the list to Woodward who tries to get the deals done. Its the same as the model we had under Fergie.

Teflon Woodward? I dunno, pretty much delivers anything he has been asked to do by the looks of it by all reasonable measurements.

How do you know LVG makes the calls with transfers?

I don't get the love for Woodward. Nobody knows for sure if he's any good at all at his job, yet people presume he's a top bloke for some reason.

I still can't believe people think Moyes first transfer season wasn't destroyed by Woodward cutting his teeth in a new job.

Woodward has been involved in some capacity in over 300mil in transfers. He's the only common denominator in This fact. Yet people think the squad we have now is because of managers choosing all the signings. Really?

StringerBell

I was and am still happy with the signings, at the time I was over the moon with some of the players so it would be pretty revisionist to say otherwise right now. Gambling on Rooney and not getting in another CB and a RW option have really come back to haunt him however.

Memphis may come good, he may flop, but you will not find too many people that were unhappy at his signing at the time, the same goes for Basti, who if used correctly can still be a super player for us, Darmian started very well and looks a tidy player, he will take time to settle fully perhaps and injury is not helping him. Martial has all the tools to be a superstar and when Morgan stops being so negative with his passing I am sure we will see the full player we bought from Southampton.

Can't find fault with who was bought tbh, add to that the previous window and I really like the Herrera and Shaw signings though they were more or less done and just green lit by Van Gaal, Blind is a very good utility player to have, Rojo I dunno, always injured unfortunately.

Its the lack of cover in some areas that is killing him and they were mostly through choices he made so he will have to carry the can for them and can't use them as an excuse.

StringerBell

Drumpot wrote: »

How do you know LVG makes the calls with transfers?

I don't get the love for Woodward. Nobody knows for sure if he's any good at all at his job, yet people presume he's a top bloke for some reason.

I still can't believe people think Moyes first transfer season wasn't destroyed by Woodward cutting his teeth in a new job.

Woodward has been involved in some capacity in over 300mil in transfers. He's the only common denominator in This fact. Yet people think the squad we have now is because of managers choosing all the signings. Really?

Cause he said it.

Woodward is very good at his job.

That's nice.

Yes Woodward is given a target and he more often then not delivers.

(I'm going to be wasting my time here aren't I)