Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 Mod Note Post #2331

Liam O

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I'm disappointed that LVG went for a straight swap for Fellani. Again he played that defensive role well. Taking him off when we were under pressure was a mistake. If he wanted to tighten up things then why not bring Schniederlan on to play alongside him rather than replace him. That last minute goal is still hurting....

2nd time in 3 league games when he's been taken off and a late goal let in. Obviously a bit early to be harping on about any correlation between the 2 but it would certainly go against the people who seem to think he's everything wrong with the current regime...

Cookie_Dough

secman wrote: »

Shocking value for money... I think Marhez cost Leicester £450k Depay not fit to tie his laces....

Leicester's starting 11 on Saturday cost the same as Memphis! Just goes to show what a manager can do for a team.

We were unlucky not to hang on yesterday. It was sickening to draw like that.

Edit: Couldn't attach the image but MOTD did a stat on Sat, Leicester's starting 11 value was £22.25m in total

Lord TSC

Liam O wrote: »

2nd time in 3 league games when he's been taken off and a late goal let in. Obviously a bit early to be harping on about any correlation between the 2 but it would certainly go against the people who seem to think he's everything wrong with the current regime...

Don't think the two are co-related massively; I think the timing of the sub coincided with the timing of the switch to parking the bus.

The issue, imo, is more why we're relying on holding onto 1-0 leads when it looks, by and large, like we don't have the fortitude to actually do it

Liam O

Lord TSC wrote: »

Don't think the two are co-related massively; I think the timing of the sub coincided with the timing of the switch to parking the bus.

The issue, imo, is more why we're relying on holding onto 1-0 leads when it looks, by and large, like we don't have the fortitude to actually do it

True, could be that he is more of an active presser than the player who replaces him though and that causes problems and allows the opponents more space to exploit in the midfield lines. Therefore it's probably not a co-incidence that the park the bus happens when he comes off.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

The exact same things were said about Schneiderlin a few weeks ago as are being said about Carrick now and even Daley Blind got this treatment last season. Anything approaching good form from the team and people fall over themselves to build up our DMs way beyond what they deserve.

they weren't really, the same things have been said about carrick the last 10 years. probably the most under rated united player of the last 20 years by the fans

Your Airbag

Memphis is getting a lot of stick and also a good chunk of people sticking up for him I see.

Yes its true its not entirely his fault Chelsea equalised, they still had to travel the entire lenght of the pitch to score. Yes its true we seemed to stop playing for the last 20 mins and were trying to see out a one nil scoreline, always a dangerous tactic but he played a massive part in the equaliser.

Saying that, people are 100% correct to be pissed off at Memphis. The pass to Schneiderlin was so easy its incredible to think he made such a poor choice of passing angle.

Schneiderlin was totally unmarked, Memphis was yards away from the tracking defender, it was a simple ball behind the defender instead of trying to go in front of him, if the ball gets to Schneiderlin its a GOLDEN chance to make it 2-0 and then it doesn't matter if Chelsea score. Actually Chelsea don't score if Morgan finished or lays it off to someone who does because the balls at the centre circle and we have 11 men behind the ball again.

Sure other mistakes were made after that leading up to the goal but its quite simple, from Depay's terrible pass, Chelsea get possession and score seconds later, where a standard and very easy pass just needed to be made and instead we are two nil up. As Alan Smith said its not the fact a pass was misplaced, its the fact it was such a simple pass in a crucial situation at an important time.

To add insult to injury Memphis is close to the Chelsea player who gets the ball back and begins to carry it up the pitch and into our half. MEMPHIS DOESN'T EVEN TRY TO GET NEAR HIM. Not an iota of effort is made. Unforgivable. Ok "the biggest fraud in football" tag going around twitter is over the top but he's certainly not what you would call a hard working player.

That sequence of events, quite simply, cost us 2 points. Memphis makes the simple pass and we are pretty much in for goal number 2. He doesn't and Chelsea have an attack, they score from that attack.

As for this "he needs an arm around his shoulder" crap, don't make me laugh. I have seen him in many games amble around and fail to put in any off the ball work rate. He often makes poor choices, fcuks up simple passes and gives the ball away. Yes he can pull off the odd decent dribble but so many have no end product and the bad far outweighs the good. Worst of all he looks like he doesn't give a toss. His attitude is terrible.

He doesn't need or more importantly deserve an arm around the shoulder. He needs a kick up the arse. I hope LVG singled him out in the dressing room and gives him a good dose of extra training and some attitude adjustment.

He can get an arm around the shoulder when he looks interested, gives 100% and looks bothered about giving his all for the team.

Irishcrx

It's getting very difficult to defend Depay.

Completely out of form , attitude looks desperate , Predictable when dribbling at defenders , always wants to cut inside , terrible defensive work rate.

I know it's been discussed , but that bloody pass a 3 year old could have made...shocking. He needs to go out on loan or down to the under 21's for a while , that 7 he is wearing on his back in a bloody joke right now, time for Adnan and Pereria to get a chance instead.

Maybe there is still a good player to be made of him , but I'm now having serious doubts that he'll ever be good enough for Utd , so far one of the worst buys of the season. I hope he was lamped out of it after the game I personally wanted to run his head through a wall.

FutureGuy

Irishcrx wrote: »

It's getting very difficult to defend Depay.

Completely out of form , attitude looks desperate , Predictable when dribbling at defenders , always wants to cut inside , terrible defensive work rate.

I know it's been discussed , but that bloody pass a 3 year old could have made...shocking. He needs to go out on loan or down to the under 21's for a while , that 7 he is wearing on his back in a bloody joke right now, time for Adnan and Pereria to get a chance instead.

Maybe there is still a good player to be made of him , but I'm now having serious doubts that he'll ever be good enough for Utd , so far one of the worst buys of the season. I hope he was lamped out of it after the game I personally wanted to run his head through a wall.

I'm sorry but if you want to completely crush his confidence, then taking 7 off him will do exactly that.

bangkok

Your Airbag wrote: »

Memphis is getting a lot of stick and also a good chunk of people sticking up for him I see.

Yes its true its not entirely his fault Chelsea equalised, they still had to travel the entire lenght of the pitch to score. Yes its true we seemed to stop playing for the last 20 mins and were trying to see out a one nil scoreline, always a dangerous tactic but he played a massive part in the equaliser.

Saying that, people are 100% correct to be pissed off at Memphis. The pass to Schneiderlin was so easy its incredible to think he made such a poor choice of passing angle.

Schneiderlin was totally unmarked, Memphis was yards away from the tracking defender, it was a simple ball behind the defender instead of trying to go in front of him, if the ball gets to Schneiderlin its a GOLDEN chance to make it 2-0 and then it doesn't matter if Chelsea score. Actually Chelsea don't score if Morgan finished or lays it off to someone who does because the balls at the centre circle and we have 11 men behind the ball again.

Sure other mistakes were made after that leading up to the goal but its quite simple, from Depay's terrible pass, Chelsea get possession and score seconds later, where a standard and very easy pass just needed to be made and instead we are two nil up. As Alan Smith said its not the fact a pass was misplaced, its the fact it was such a simple pass in a crucial situation at an important time.

To add insult to injury Memphis is close to the Chelsea player who gets the ball back and begins to carry it up the pitch and into our half. MEMPHIS DOESN'T EVEN TRY TO GET NEAR HIM. Not an iota of effort is made. Unforgivable. Ok "the biggest fraud in football" tag going around twitter is over the top but he's certainly not what you would call a hard working player.

That sequence of events, quite simply, cost us 2 points. Memphis makes the simple pass and we are pretty much in for goal number 2. He doesn't and Chelsea have an attack, they score from that attack.

As for this "he needs an arm around his shoulder" crap, don't make me laugh. I have seen him in many games amble around and fail to put in any off the ball work rate. He often makes poor choices, fcuks up simple passes and gives the ball away. Yes he can pull off the odd decent dribble but so many have no end product and the bad far outweighs the good. Worst of all he looks like he doesn't give a toss. His attitude is terrible.

He doesn't need or more importantly deserve an arm around the shoulder. He needs a kick up the arse. I hope LVG singled him out in the dressing room and gives him a good dose of extra training and some attitude adjustment.

He can get an arm around the shoulder when he looks interested, gives 100% and looks bothered about giving his all for the team.

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/memphis-depay-is-slaughtered-following-chelsea-draw-and-rightly-so/63334

Your Airbag

FutureGuy wrote: »

I'm sorry but if you want to completely crush his confidence, then taking 7 off him will do exactly that.

His confidence? I honestly don't think confidence is an issue with him. Its his arrogance that is the problem, he's looks to be in his own world where he is a superstar in his own head.

Confidnece doesn't stop a player tracking back, a bad attitude does and bad attitudes should have consequences like in any workplace.

Taking 7 off him is letting him off lightly imo. He needs to be dropped and to see Adnan or whoever else play instead of him. Maybe he will readjust the ego then and not think he's above putting in a shift.

I can't think of any other player in Depay's position that would have failed to pass to Schneiderlin. Its still unbelievable tbh.

Irishcrx

FutureGuy wrote: »

I'm sorry but if you want to completely crush his confidence, then taking 7 off him will do exactly that.

I didn't mean take the number off him , I meant just drop him and give the others an extended run ahead of him.

However , he doesn't deserve to be wearing it. 7 & 11 Them numbers need to be earned at Utd not given.

beno619

I think Depay should pull the finger out, but similarly to Di Maria I dont think the manager has helped him much either.

I would have expected him on as soon as we went 3 up at Stoke for example or to start the Derby game.

Kerrydude1981

Irishcrx wrote: »

I didn't mean take the number off him , I meant just drop him and give the others an extended run ahead of him.

However , he doesn't deserve to be wearing it. 7 & 11 Them numbers need to be earned at Utd not given.

Id rather see Pereira being given a chance now then be bringing on Depay.

Irishcrx

Oh what Fergie would have made of Depay yesturday...that last face would be enough for him to leave his jersey on the pitch and look for the first flight back to Holland.

sky88

Irishcrx wrote: »

Oh what Fergie would have made of Depay yesturday...that last face would be enough for him to leave his jersey on the pitch and look for the first flight back to Holland.

People need to stop thinking what would fergie think of these kind of situations and move on. There were players during his time that played that badly and made mistakes like memphis.

Memphis is seriously a worry at the minute and sending him down to the u21s like a few people have said might not be bad idea to build confidence. He doesnt seem like he can do the simplest of passes anymore. I think van gaal keeps bringing him on in hope that something will spark with him but but nothing is.

Lord TSC

beno619 wrote: »

I think Depay should pull the finger out, but similarly to Di Maria I dont think the manager has helped him much either.

Think its a little from Column A, and a little from Column B.

The second his form dropped at the start of the season, he was benched and seemingly given very little, if any, chances to prove himself. That sort of management can lead to players developing very poor attitudes, and there's been a good few instances of players being dropped for very little reason.

At the same time, it doesn't excuse the poor attitude either, even if its a cause; when a player is getting limited time comes on, you expect him to try and prove himself and work his ass off. Memphis seems lazy and like he couldn't be arsed.

Wonder how much, though, is that because he thinks a new manager will be along soon enough so why bother playing for LVG? Again, not excusing the attitude, but that can be a common enough reaction when players know there's uncertainty about their manager, and if such an attitude is prevalent, it could explain why LVG doesn't trust him.

That said, if he doesn't trust him, why throw him on and not Perriera? Why not look for a winger you do trust in the January window?

beno619

Lord TSC wrote: »

Think its a little from Column A, and a little from Column B.

The second his form dropped at the start of the season, he was benched and seemingly given very little, if any, chances to prove himself. That sort of management can lead to players developing very poor attitudes, and there's been a good few instances of players being dropped for very little reason.

At the same time, it doesn't excuse the poor attitude either, even if its a cause; when a player is getting limited time comes on, you expect him to try and prove himself and work his ass off. Memphis seems lazy and like he couldn't be arsed.

Wonder how much, though, is that because he thinks a new manager will be along soon enough so why bother playing for LVG? Again, not excusing the attitude, but that can be a common enough reaction when players know there's uncertainty about their manager, and if such an attitude is prevalent, it could explain why LVG doesn't trust him.

That said, if he doesn't trust him, why throw him on and not Perriera? Why not look for a winger you do trust in the January window?

I think most people would have say Depay has worked hard and been impressive in the few minutes he's had in the run up to the Chelsea game.

The **** up yesterday has pushed some of that good work out of people's memories.

You'd expect the likes of Depay and Perriera to start in the F.A cup or Europa ties but would't bet on it.

RobbingBandit

Chelsea games where they're 1-nil down should end in the 89th minute as a rule.Best hope of Champions League we have going forward is to win the Europa League and gain that shameful backdoor route in.

bangkok

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Chelsea games where they're 1-nil down should end in the 89th minute as a rule.Best hope of Champions League we have going forward is to win the Europa League and gain that shameful backdoor route in.

Trigger

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Chelsea games where they're 1-nil down should end in the 89th minute as a rule.Best hope of Champions League we have going forward is to win the Europa League and gain that shameful backdoor route in.

Winning a European trophy is shameful now?

Lukker-

astradave wrote: »

Winning a European trophy is shameful now?

Only in England and only if it's the Europa League.

That attitude doesn't exist on the continent.

TheDoc

FutureGuy wrote: »

There's a quality player there but he needs to get regular games and start tracking back. Unfortunately I don't see either happening anytime soon.

I mean anyone can give the ball away but his tracking back after the mistake was absolutely scandalous. He was barely on and he should have broke his balls to get a tackle in. He genuinely looked like he could not be arsed.

It is also possible that he was put on with instruction to hang up forward to spring a counter attack. Chelsea were piling forward, and Lingard was flagging badly.

The sort of question that I'd expect a competent journalist to ask afterwards. I didn't see the post match with written press. Was he asked about Memphis instructions when he came on? I'd guess no.

Relooked at the last part of the match last night. Memphis has been pretty diligent when he has come on recently, looking at what he was doing, he might have been brought on to play advanced and spring a counter. A lot of clearances we were making were going down that channel to nobody.

Just a thought, not an excuse. but we needed an outlet. Rooney was tracking back deep, Martial was coming back deep, we needed some form of outlet.

Cookie_Dough

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Chelsea games where they're 1-nil down should end in the 89th minute as a rule.Best hope of Champions League we have going forward is to win the Europa League and gain that shameful backdoor route in.

I don't really think winning a trophy to earn our way into another competition is "shameful". I wouldn't be too ashamed anyway. Regardless of whether it's regarded as a "mickey mouse cup" or not, any silverware this season is not to be sniffed at IMO.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

It's perfectly normal for a centre-back to have to fill in for a full-back and stay there until the attack is over.

On the Smalling positioning. I don't know if intentional and by design, but Darmian has a tendency sometimes to track wingers all the way across to the other side of the pitch, where I'd maybe expect him to pass over players to a team mate. There was two instances where he tracked Hazard from his wing, all the way over to the other side.

TheDoc

Your Airbag wrote: »

Memphis is getting a lot of stick and also a good chunk of people sticking up for him I see.

Yes its true its not entirely his fault Chelsea equalised, they still had to travel the entire lenght of the pitch to score. Yes its true we seemed to stop playing for the last 20 mins and were trying to see out a one nil scoreline, always a dangerous tactic but he played a massive part in the equaliser.

Saying that, people are 100% correct to be pissed off at Memphis. The pass to Schneiderlin was so easy its incredible to think he made such a poor choice of passing angle.

Schneiderlin was totally unmarked, Memphis was yards away from the tracking defender, it was a simple ball behind the defender instead of trying to go in front of him, if the ball gets to Schneiderlin its a GOLDEN chance to make it 2-0 and then it doesn't matter if Chelsea score. Actually Chelsea don't score if Morgan finished or lays it off to someone who does because the balls at the centre circle and we have 11 men behind the ball again.

Sure other mistakes were made after that leading up to the goal but its quite simple, from Depay's terrible pass, Chelsea get possession and score seconds later, where a standard and very easy pass just needed to be made and instead we are two nil up. As Alan Smith said its not the fact a pass was misplaced, its the fact it was such a simple pass in a crucial situation at an important time.

To add insult to injury Memphis is close to the Chelsea player who gets the ball back and begins to carry it up the pitch and into our half. MEMPHIS DOESN'T EVEN TRY TO GET NEAR HIM. Not an iota of effort is made. Unforgivable. Ok "the biggest fraud in football" tag going around twitter is over the top but he's certainly not what you would call a hard working player.

That sequence of events, quite simply, cost us 2 points. Memphis makes the simple pass and we are pretty much in for goal number 2. He doesn't and Chelsea have an attack, they score from that attack.

As for this "he needs an arm around his shoulder" crap, don't make me laugh. I have seen him in many games amble around and fail to put in any off the ball work rate. He often makes poor choices, fcuks up simple passes and gives the ball away. Yes he can pull off the odd decent dribble but so many have no end product and the bad far outweighs the good. Worst of all he looks like he doesn't give a toss. His attitude is terrible.

He doesn't need or more importantly deserve an arm around the shoulder. He needs a kick up the arse. I hope LVG singled him out in the dressing room and gives him a good dose of extra training and some attitude adjustment.

He can get an arm around the shoulder when he looks interested, gives 100% and looks bothered about giving his all for the team.

This criticism is getting borderline John Giles totally misguided and bewildered rant about Ronaldo.

Why do people care so much about his defensive work rate. He is an attacking flare player.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't want Memphis tracking back at all. I want him hanging around up high, to launch a counter.

Having seen a lot of him, it never occurred to me he had an attitude problem, or an issue tracking back. He did it plenty for Van Gaal for Holland as a wingback at times in that 3-5-2 formation, and he did it plenty with PSG. This just appears to me to be a massive crisis of confidence. Sure it will probably play to the fans nicely if he runs back loads, or puts a tackle in here or there.

I'm worried for him massively. Mourinho has shown a propensity to be absolutely terrible in developing wingers and wide players, and typically they need to move elsewhere. He is an incredible talent that has had a torrid time of it since joining. Needs something to drop for him. I sincerely hope it happens sooner rather then later, because I don't think he will develop properly at all under Mourinho.

a point by the way, lost a plenty in the Mourinho discussion. His record and history regarding wingers and creative players. He appears to be absolutely terrible at developing them or coaching them. Chelsea alone had a scrap heap of excellent wide players that were dire under his direction, but quickly reverted to type once they moved on.

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

This criticism is getting borderline John Giles totally misguided and bewildered rant about Ronaldo.

Why do people care so much about his defensive work rate. He is an attacking flare player.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't want Memphis tracking back at all. I want him hanging around up high, to launch a counter.

Having seen a lot of him, it never occurred to me he had an attitude problem, or an issue tracking back. He did it plenty for Van Gaal for Holland as a wingback at times in that 3-5-2 formation, and he did it plenty with PSG. This just appears to me to be a massive crisis of confidence. Sure it will probably play to the fans nicely if he runs back loads, or puts a tackle in here or there.

I'm worried for him massively. Mourinho has shown a propensity to be absolutely terrible in developing wingers and wide players, and typically they need to move elsewhere. He is an incredible talent that has had a torrid time of it since joining. Needs something to drop for him. I sincerely hope it happens sooner rather then later, because I don't think he will develop properly at all under Mourinho.

a point by the way, lost a plenty in the Mourinho discussion. His record and history regarding wingers and creative players. He appears to be absolutely terrible at developing them or coaching them. Chelsea alone had a scrap heap of excellent wide players that were dire under his direction, but quickly reverted to type once they moved on.

Tbf Doc, when you come on in the 87th minute of a match where we are severely under pressure I don't think it's much to ask of him to put in some good work rate for the last few minute. I can understand him being a flare player and not tracking back so much if he was in the starting line up. But not for the situation we were in at the point in the game.

Mars Bar

TheDoc wrote: »

On the Smalling positioning. I don't know if intentional and by design, but Darmian has a tendency sometimes to track wingers all the way across to the other side of the pitch, where I'd maybe expect him to pass over players to a team mate. There was two instances where he tracked Hazard from his wing, all the way over to the other side.

I remember noticing that but I think both those were the results of set pieces IIRC.

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

This criticism is getting borderline John Giles totally misguided and bewildered rant about Ronaldo.

Why do people care so much about his defensive work rate. He is an attacking flare player.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't want Memphis tracking back at all. I want him hanging around up high, to launch a counter.

Having seen a lot of him, it never occurred to me he had an attitude problem, or an issue tracking back. He did it plenty for Van Gaal for Holland as a wingback at times in that 3-5-2 formation, and he did it plenty with PSG. This just appears to me to be a massive crisis of confidence. Sure it will probably play to the fans nicely if he runs back loads, or puts a tackle in here or there.

I'm worried for him massively. Mourinho has shown a propensity to be absolutely terrible in developing wingers and wide players, and typically they need to move elsewhere. He is an incredible talent that has had a torrid time of it since joining. Needs something to drop for him. I sincerely hope it happens sooner rather then later, because I don't think he will develop properly at all under Mourinho.

a point by the way, lost a plenty in the Mourinho discussion. His record and history regarding wingers and creative players. He appears to be absolutely terrible at developing them or coaching them. Chelsea alone had a scrap heap of excellent wide players that were dire under his direction, but quickly reverted to type once they moved on.

a counter attack is usually launched from deep anyway, you are all defending and then 3 or 4 players break at speed. Depay had so many options when he had the ball and he picked the most silly one.

TheDoc

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Tbf Doc, when you come on in the 87th minute of a match where we are severely under pressure I don't think it's much to ask of him to put in some good work rate for the last few minute. I can understand him being a flare player and not tracking back so much if he was in the starting line up. But not for the situation we were in at the point in the game.

Like I said, maybe he had specific instructions. In his last few appearances he has been tracking back fine. He clearly needs to impress to get back into the managers first team plans. He may well have been carrying out something specific. Even outside of that issue, there was two occasions where he started to move back, and but then stopped and retained a higher position up the pitch.

I'm not going to go bash it to death. He made a terrible attempt at a pass, that led to a goal, Disaster. His confidence is non existent and he is having a torrid time. He is also clearly the new scapegoat for fans to take out their anguish on. Send him back to PSV, waste of money, useless.

I think what perplexes me most is how there appears to be no patience or time being afforded to him, at all, by a shockingly large segment of the fans. It must be just endemic of the general "we need to get back winning stuff ASAP".

He is a 21 year old who has come to a new league and a new team and struggled. He isn't the first, and he won't be the last. To write him off after six months is incredible. What the **** were you saying about Ronaldo when he arrived and he did sweet **** all for the guts of 12 months. Best part of three seasons before Hazard grasped a portion of his potential, and he is gone haywire this season. Should they **** him off back to France?

For every Martial, a foreign import who hits the ground running, there is four Memphis', who struggle to adapt and get themselves settled and firing.

Hopefully he gets inclusion in the FA CUP and Europa league, he is only going to put things right by playing. And maybe another Club Brugge style escapade will get people back believing in him again for a while.

Rayne Wooney

It was a simple fcuking square pass in the 90th minute when we were well up against it, he could have taken it to the corner, he did the worst thing imaginable by giving it almost straight to the keeper when Chelsea had plenty of players up field for an attack. And then he didn't look too worried about getting back despite being on the field a minute and surrounded by tired players

It's simply inexcusable

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

a counter attack is usually launched from deep anyway, you are all defending and then 3 or 4 players break at speed. Depay had so many options when he had the ball and he picked the most silly one.

We were aimlessly firing the ball clear from particularly our six yard box, into areas where no one was there. Rooney had come back as did Martial, we had no outlet.

Anyway, that's just me sharing a thought on a possibility. And maybe if journalists weren't so ****ing braindead and trying to gouge Van Gaal into submission about his job, they might have asked for us.

Even MUTV is a massive disappointment. Where you would think there would be some more leeway considering its an inhouse brand and channel, even they can't formulate decent questions regarding the actual football and decision making to inform fans. So ****ing annoying.

markc91

Yep we should never have gotten rid 😂

markc91

Yep we should never have gotten rid

markc91

.

Chagan

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Chelsea games where they're 1-nil down should end in the 89th minute as a rule.Best hope of Champions League we have going forward is to win the Europa League and gain that shameful backdoor route in.

Not half as shameful as having to scrape fourth place in the domestic league and considering it some sort of achievement.

secman

TheDoc wrote: »

a point by the way, lost a plenty in the Mourinho discussion. His record and history regarding wingers and creative players. He appears to be absolutely terrible at developing them or coaching them. Chelsea alone had a scrap heap of excellent wide players that were dire under his direction, but quickly reverted to type once they moved on.

Duff and Robin spring to mind.

Your Airbag

TheDoc wrote: »

This criticism is getting borderline John Giles totally misguided and bewildered rant about Ronaldo.

Why do people care so much about his defensive work rate. He is an attacking flare player.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't want Memphis tracking back at all. I want him hanging around up high, to launch a counter.

Having seen a lot of him, it never occurred to me he had an attitude problem, or an issue tracking back. He did it plenty for Van Gaal for Holland as a wingback at times in that 3-5-2 formation, and he did it plenty with PSG. This just appears to me to be a massive crisis of confidence. Sure it will probably play to the fans nicely if he runs back loads, or puts a tackle in here or there.

I'm worried for him massively. Mourinho has shown a propensity to be absolutely terrible in developing wingers and wide players, and typically they need to move elsewhere. He is an incredible talent that has had a torrid time of it since joining. Needs something to drop for him. I sincerely hope it happens sooner rather then later, because I don't think he will develop properly at all under Mourinho.

a point by the way, lost a plenty in the Mourinho discussion. His record and history regarding wingers and creative players. He appears to be absolutely terrible at developing them or coaching them. Chelsea alone had a scrap heap of excellent wide players that were dire under his direction, but quickly reverted to type once they moved on.

People care about work rate because it can prevent goals and the loss of points. Also people like to see a player working hard for the team.

An attacking flare player? An incredible talent? One Who can't make the most basic of passes to a team mate? Depay has not shown anything close to incredible talent since joining. His torrid time is mainly down to him being so poor.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

they weren't really, the same things have been said about carrick the last 10 years. probably the most under rated united player of the last 20 years by the fans

Supposedly underrated player - check
Supposedly very important to the team - check
Supposed correlation between good form of the team and him playing - check

Yep, all those things have been frequently said about Carrick, Schneiderlin and Blind playing DM in the last year. They were being said about Schneiderlin just a few weeks ago.

In reality all three have lots of fans, so aren't underrated. Carrick and Schneiderlin are much of a muchness in terms of overall positive impact on the team from DM. And the team form has been consistently substandard with any of the three playing in DM since Van Gaal came in.

loyatemu

I'd be very happy to see Utd win the Europa League - it's the only major trophy the club is missing. I don't think we have much of a chance though, there are a lot of decent sides left, we'd have to win 4 two-legged ties to get to the final, and we're just not very good.

Pro. F

StringerBell wrote: »

Carrick's forward passing is sorely missed though when he is out, Schneiderlin has been cowardly in possession, Carrick still manages to zip the ball forward and will take more risks, his issue as always is that his footwork is just not up there at elite level and he can be got at a little too easily and pressured.

Carrick is a much better passer, that is true. But I don't see any significant improvement in the overall team form when he's playing. As you say, he has important flaws. And I think all three players suffer from that same issue and get praise beyond what they deserve.

Overall I rate Carrick ahead of Schneiderlin and Blind and have said as much since Blind first arrived. I just don't think he's so much better than Schneiderlin that it matters a huge amount in this team.

Many fans fancy Schneiderlin for his superior work-rate. And while nobody is talking Blind up as a DM now, there were many who rated Blind ahead of Carrick when he was playing DM last season, and he got the "very important and underrated player treatment" too.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

Supposedly underrated player - check
Supposedly very important to the team - check
Supposed correlation between good form of the team and him playing - check

Yep, all those things have been frequently said about Carrick, Schneiderlin and Blind playing DM in the last year. They were being said about Schneiderlin just a few weeks ago.

In reality all three have lots of fans, so aren't underrated. Carrick and Schneiderlin are much of a muchness in terms of overall positive impact on the team from DM. And the team form has been consistently substandard with any of the three playing in DM since Van Gaal came in.

Carrick is a much better passer, probably the best passer of a ball from his position in England. Gets into great defensive positions and shields the back 4 extremely well

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

Like I said, maybe he had specific instructions. In his last few appearances he has been tracking back fine. He clearly needs to impress to get back into the managers first team plans. He may well have been carrying out something specific. Even outside of that issue, there was two occasions where he started to move back, and but then stopped and retained a higher position up the pitch.

I'm not going to go bash it to death. He made a terrible attempt at a pass, that led to a goal, Disaster. His confidence is non existent and he is having a torrid time. He is also clearly the new scapegoat for fans to take out their anguish on. Send him back to PSV, waste of money, useless.

I think what perplexes me most is how there appears to be no patience or time being afforded to him, at all, by a shockingly large segment of the fans. It must be just endemic of the general "we need to get back winning stuff ASAP".

He is a 21 year old who has come to a new league and a new team and struggled. He isn't the first, and he won't be the last. To write him off after six months is incredible. What the **** were you saying about Ronaldo when he arrived and he did sweet **** all for the guts of 12 months. Best part of three seasons before Hazard grasped a portion of his potential, and he is gone haywire this season. Should they **** him off back to France?

For every Martial, a foreign import who hits the ground running, there is four Memphis', who struggle to adapt and get themselves settled and firing.

Hopefully he gets inclusion in the FA CUP and Europa league, he is only going to put things right by playing. And maybe another Club Brugge style escapade will get people back believing in him again for a while.

For me personally I never mentioned that he should **** off back to Holland etc..

But his confidance is shot because he hasn't worked hard enough, even when he made the most basic of errors he didn't look bothered about it and made no effort to win the ball again at such a crucial point in the game. That's bound to upset most fans of any team.

People may say I'm not critical enough of LVG but I disagree, I have been critical at times.
When I think about it it wasn't the time or the place to bring on Depay at that moment in such a high profile and critical game when he's clearly been struggling.

For the future, if his attitude is right a stint in the under 21's would actually be no harm. If he's bothered enough he will then drive to get back into the senior squad.

I'm not an advocate of this "arm around shoulders craic" either. He's a professional footballer who gets boat loads of money. He should man up and grow a pair and put in some hard graft. You can't be critical of the fans thinking the same.

bangkok

M!Ck^ wrote: »

For me personally I never mentioned that he should **** off back to Holland etc..

But his confidance is shot because he hasn't worked hard enough, even when he made the most basic of errors he didn't look bothered about it and made no effort to win the ball again at such a crucial point in the game. That's bound to upset most fans of any team.

People may say I'm not critical enough of LVG but I disagree, I have been critical at times.
When I think about it it wasn't the time or the place to bring on Depay at that moment in such a high profile and critical game when he's clearly been struggling.

For the future, if his attitude is right a stint in the under 21's would actually be no harm. If he's bothered enough he will then drive to get back into the senior squad.

I'm not an advocate of this "arm around shoulders craic" either. He's a professional footballer who gets boat loads of money. He should man up and grow a pair and put in some hard graft. You can't be critical of the fans thinking the same.

this is half the problem though, he is a 21 year old with little education who is already a multi millionaire. Some players whether we like it or not need an arm over the shoulder. some players don't, that's where you need good man management. Fergie was a genius at it, he always had the right feel for how a player was feeling, I don't think van gaal is that type of manager.

Rayne Wooney

I can't see Memphis lasting long if Mourinho is made manager

https://twitter.com/RedorDead07/status/696670203095224320

Haha calls out the press guy and says "you are getting the sack also"

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

this is half the problem though, he is a 21 year old with little education who is already a multi millionaire. Some players whether we like it or not need an arm over the shoulder. some players don't, that's where you need good man management. Fergie was a genius at it, he always had the right feel for how a player was feeling, I don't think van gaal is that type of manager.

Alot of you are advocates for Jose to come in yes?
If this is so important to you then Jose is not the man to replace LVG if all the players need a little cuddle and a bedtime story every-time they flop on the pitch

To note: Fergie was more likely to give you a right boloxin if you made a stupid mistake like that in the game

Strumms

It would be different if people were writing Memphis off because of his performances id be critical of them but what is pissing people of is his workrate and general attitude. I dont blame him for making that pass.. ok wrong choice but young players make the wrong choices from time to time.. its his work rate and attitude and no matter if you are 21 or 31 this should be a huge area of concern for fans... he really only appears interested if its in the last 3rd and there is an attempt to attack... otherwise he doesnt put much or any effort into tracking back... no defensive sensability and when he ****s up he doesnt appear all that bothered or so it seems... unless he was to get a game playing as the lone striker i wouldnt trust him in the team... the 3 attacking players have a duty to defent and defend properly when needed... Martial, Mata and Lingard can make the effort so why cant Memphis ? Not ability i dont think.. this goes tits up for him and he gets shipped out he has nobody to blame but himself.

homerjay2005

the scapegoating of Memhis for yesterdays goal, is disgraceful. if it was Martial, Mata, Herrera etc that did it, not a word would be said.

we didnt concede that goal due to a pass 120 yards up the pitch, we lost it due to absolutely shambolic loss of defensive shape and concentration.



Smalling completely out of position, three players in a straight line leaving a gap as wide as a whores ****, Daley Blind slipping/missing the pass and then CBJ playing him onside.

it was defending like a schoolboy team that cost us (and the fact that Chelsea had been on top for 15 minutes before that and the goal was coming anyway) and not Memphis.

bangkok

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Alot of you are advocates for Jose to come in yes?
If this is so important to you then Jose is not the man to replace LVG if all the players need a little cuddle and a bedtime story every-time they flop on the pitch

To note: Fergie was more likely to give you a right boloxin if you made a stupid mistake like that in the game

I don't want Jose anywhere near United, I think he is poison.

Yes fergie would give you a bolloxin but I don't think Memphis confidence would be so low if fergie was manager

TheDoc

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the scapegoating of Memhis for yesterdays goal, is disgraceful. if it was Martial, Mata, Herrera etc that did it, not a word would be said.

we didnt concede that goal due to a pass 120 yards up the pitch, we lost it due to absolutely shambolic loss of defensive shape and concentration.



Smalling completely out of position, three players in a straight line leaving a gap as wide as a whores ****, Daley Blind slipping/missing the pass and then CBJ playing him onside.

it was defending like a schoolboy team that cost us (and the fact that Chelsea had been on top for 15 minutes before that and the goal was coming anyway) and not Memphis.

Homer you are going to wreck the buzz here now. That picture shows Memphis back in defensive shape I believe dealing with Hazard/Azp before the play happened.

Is that your Tv homer or a pic from the web? Those curved TV's look incredible anytime I see them in shops.